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Old 15th January 2020, 04:38 PM   #841
yankee451
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
You are doing a good job of ignoring my question which is directly about the evidence.
Use this for your hypothetical thought experiment.

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Old 15th January 2020, 04:41 PM   #842
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Originally Posted by Deadie View Post
You do not have prima facie evidence. You have ad hoc speculation based on nothing more than your person interpretation of photographs.

Photographs I'm surprised you don't consider to be photoshopped or otherwise manipulated. Hell, what exactly IS your justification that those photos you use to argue your point are in any way legitimate in the first place, given that you claim video evidence not?
I see. So you think the photographs of all the damage evidence was doctored to make it look like the lateral impact of small projectiles, rather than what they were showing on television. Your logic gives me chills.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:42 PM   #843
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Be outraged! It's easier than thinking.
Why would I be outraged about someone making up the dumbest lies lies, and mock the murder of thousands.

Who did your fantasy version of 9/11?

You can't grasp physics.

I was on active duty on 9/11 and find your claims to be false, and an insult to all Americans. You live in a fantasy world based on ignorance and hate of others, and those who died on 9/11.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:53 PM   #844
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Use this for your hypothetical thought experiment.
You will do anything to avoid answering my question, won't you?

I could do it for real, but I want to find out what you think would happen.

You are saying that unless the aluminium cladding is sliced all the way through, including the parts around the sides, there won't be any damage to the steel square section?

(Edit: I can add a layer of fire retardant between my aluminium and steel if you like, just name the material)
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Last edited by Robin; 15th January 2020 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:57 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Use this for your hypothetical thought experiment. ...
Here you go a few of the thousands killed on 9/11, and you make up lies about missiles.

Vincent Paul Abate, 40, Brooklyn, N.Y., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Laurence Christopher Abel, 37, New York City, Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Alona Abraham, 30, Ashdod, Israel, Passenger, United 175, World Trade Center.

William F. Abrahamson, 55, Westchester County, N.Y., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Richard Anthony Aceto, 42, Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Heinrich Bernhard Ackermann, 38, Aon Corporation, World Trade Center.

Paul Acquaviva, 29, Glen Rock, N.J., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Christian Adams, 37, Passenger, United 93, Shanksville, Pa.

Donald LaRoy Adams, 28, Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Lives ended by 19 failed humans who hated American, and you make up lies.


And here some at the end of the alphabet...

Zhe Zeng, 28, Bank of New York, World Trade Center.

Marc Scott Zeplin, 33, Westchester, N.Y., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Jie Yao Justin Zhao, 27, New York City, CompuCom Systems, Inc., World Trade Center.

Yuguang Zheng, Passenger, American 77, Pentagon.

Ivelin Ziminski, 41, Tarrytown, N.Y., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Michael Joseph Zinzi, 37, Newfoundland, N.J., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Charles Alan Zion, 54, Greenwich, Conn., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Julie Lynne Zipper, 44, Paramus, N.J., Sandler O'Neill visitor from SunGard Data Systems, Inc., World Trade Center.

Salvatore J. Zisa, 45, Hawthorne, N.J., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Prokopios Paul Zois, 46, Lynbrook, N.Y., Marsh&McLennan consultant from American Express, World Trade Center.

Joseph J. Zuccala, 54, Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., Fuji Bank, Ltd., World Trade Center.

Andrew Steven Zucker, 27, Riverdale, N.Y., Harris Beach LLP, World Trade Center.

Igor Zukelman, 29, Fiduciary Trust Company International, World Trade Center.


Tell me, have you told all those who knew these people, their parents, family, kids, that you know the truth?

Did you try to confirm those who were killed before spreading the dumbest lie in history? You failed to prove the videos are fake - FAILED
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:58 PM   #846
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I see. So you think the photographs of all the damage evidence was doctored to make it look like the lateral impact of small projectiles, rather than what they were showing on television. Your logic gives me chills.
What? No, if I was going to expend the time, effort and energy to create fantastically amazing CGI versions of events depicting aircraft striking the towers then I sure as hell would also manipulate, or outright create, still photographic evidence to the same effect.

Last edited by Deadie; 15th January 2020 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:08 PM   #847
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I ask again:

What exactly is your justification that those photos you use to argue your point are in any way legitimate in the first place, given that you claim video evidence not?
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:13 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Use this for your hypothetical thought experiment.

You think that the wing would exert no force on the steel column unless it has "passed through" any intervening material?

Think again
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:15 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
So what you are saying is, that if I take a steel square section and cut and bend a sheet of aluminium to snugly fit the length of steel on three sides and then I swing a big crowbar at the front side then I would not be able to dent the steel without severing the aluminium completely? Yes?
Bumping again one of the questions yankee451 is studiously avoiding.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:20 PM   #850
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Bumping again one of the questions yankee451 is studiously avoiding.
The box wasn't square, was it.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:22 PM   #851
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I see. So this changes the evidence of the lateral impact of cruise missiles, how? Perhaps thousands of people did report seeing missiles, but why would the media tell us about it when they were selling us planes? Like all my questions you don't need to answer.
I am treating your question as any other assaulting my intelligence.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:26 PM   #852
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
And yet until a TV was shoved in their faces, most people said they saw small planes, no planes (bombs), and missiles.
Liar
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:31 PM   #853
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The box wasn't square, was it.
So what do you think would happen to the steel square section and aluminium cladding I am talking about? Do you think I could dent the steel square section without completely severing the aluminium?

That is the general case.

Then we can move on to find out why you think that this particular case would be different.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:51 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by Deadie
Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Those people whose existence and memories you spit on to advance your theory. Pilots, flight crew, passengers. All GONE. What happened to them in your theory?
He's gonna say:

1. They didn't exist.
2. They are conspirators and in on the plan in some capacity (crisis actors).
3. They were executed after their flights landed at secret airports shortly after takeoff. However, I do not know if he thinks those specific planes or particular flights ever existed in the first place.
4. Some combination of the above on a person to person basis.
He's actually studiously avoided answering the question ever since I first asked it way back in post 179.

Hey yankee451, If the aircraft N334AA and N612UA did not hit the WTC towers on September 11, 2001, what happened to the airframes and to the people who were aboard the flights? The people and the aircraft existed at 8:30 AM EST that day, but by 9:30 AM they were no more. What happened to them?
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Old 15th January 2020, 06:14 PM   #855
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yankee451,

Maybe use this one

So your contention is that the aluminium wing spar could not exert any force on the steel column until it has "passed through" the aluminium cladding, yes?
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Last edited by Robin; 15th January 2020 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 06:55 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I see. So this changes the evidence of the lateral impact of cruise missiles, how? Perhaps thousands of people did report seeing missiles, but why would the media tell us about it when they were selling us planes? Like all my questions delusions you don't need to answer.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:13 PM   #857
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
ďAssume thousands of people?Ē

The population of the five boroughs in 2001 was a touch over eight million. Following the impact of the first airplane, there was time for more than a few of them, even those at work or otherwise not usually looking at the twin towers (plus tourists, students, workers and other non residents either on foot, on ships, or in vehicles) to be hard focused on the spot. Maybe youíve never been to NYC; I lived there, and the towers were a common visual reference for a remarkable distance, thatís how tall they were.

But letís be conservative and consider just those within a modest radius of, say, a half mile. I assume more than a million.

Pah! Holograms!
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:16 PM   #858
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Most people reported planes, missiles and bombs. CNN did report a large jet. Knowing that videos can be faked, and witnesses are notoriously unreliable, luckily we can thin out what's fake and what's real by examining the damage evidence.
The last time we had a moderately strong earthquake, witnesses reported bombs, freight trains, lightning, the rapture and Godzilla.

Didn't quite work out that way, did it. Seems like people engage in hyperbole when faced with traumatizing events.

Or are you a no-quaker too?
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:13 PM   #859
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
yankee451,

Maybe use this one
https://robinsrevision.files.wordpre...ge-7.png?w=620
So your contention is that the aluminium wing spar could not exert any force on the steel column until it has "passed through" the aluminium cladding, yes?

No, that's not my contention, and you know it. Before it could cut the steel, it would cut the aluminum. That's my contention. My conclusion is that it was not struck from the front, as seen in the aluminum cladding that was not cut.

Last edited by yankee451; 15th January 2020 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:17 PM   #860
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
The last time we had a moderately strong earthquake, witnesses reported bombs, freight trains, lightning, the rapture and Godzilla.

Didn't quite work out that way, did it. Seems like people engage in hyperbole when faced with traumatizing events.

Or are you a no-quaker too?
Wow. So this means the steel wasn't bent sharply in a completely different direction than the mostly hollow aluminum wing was traveling.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:20 PM   #861
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
He's actually studiously avoided answering the question ever since I first asked it way back in post 179.

Hey yankee451, If the aircraft N334AA and N612UA did not hit the WTC towers on September 11, 2001, what happened to the airframes and to the people who were aboard the flights? The people and the aircraft existed at 8:30 AM EST that day, but by 9:30 AM they were no more. What happened to them?
I see, so that means the lightly bent cladding and the gouged and sharply bend steel columns are consistent with the head on impact of a jet. I get it.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:22 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Why would I be outraged about someone making up the dumbest lies lies, and mock the murder of thousands.

Who did your fantasy version of 9/11?

You can't grasp physics.

I was on active duty on 9/11 and find your claims to be false, and an insult to all Americans. You live in a fantasy world based on ignorance and hate of others, and those who died on 9/11.
Wipe your chin.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:27 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Here you go a few of the thousands killed on 9/11, and you make up lies about missiles.

Vincent Paul Abate, 40, Brooklyn, N.Y., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Laurence Christopher Abel, 37, New York City, Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Alona Abraham, 30, Ashdod, Israel, Passenger, United 175, World Trade Center.

William F. Abrahamson, 55, Westchester County, N.Y., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Richard Anthony Aceto, 42, Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Heinrich Bernhard Ackermann, 38, Aon Corporation, World Trade Center.

Paul Acquaviva, 29, Glen Rock, N.J., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Christian Adams, 37, Passenger, United 93, Shanksville, Pa.

Donald LaRoy Adams, 28, Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Lives ended by 19 failed humans who hated American, and you make up lies.


And here some at the end of the alphabet...

Zhe Zeng, 28, Bank of New York, World Trade Center.

Marc Scott Zeplin, 33, Westchester, N.Y., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Jie Yao Justin Zhao, 27, New York City, CompuCom Systems, Inc., World Trade Center.

Yuguang Zheng, Passenger, American 77, Pentagon.

Ivelin Ziminski, 41, Tarrytown, N.Y., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Michael Joseph Zinzi, 37, Newfoundland, N.J., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Charles Alan Zion, 54, Greenwich, Conn., Cantor Fitzgerald, World Trade Center.

Julie Lynne Zipper, 44, Paramus, N.J., Sandler O'Neill visitor from SunGard Data Systems, Inc., World Trade Center.

Salvatore J. Zisa, 45, Hawthorne, N.J., Marsh&McLennan Companies, Inc., World Trade Center.

Prokopios Paul Zois, 46, Lynbrook, N.Y., Marsh&McLennan consultant from American Express, World Trade Center.

Joseph J. Zuccala, 54, Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., Fuji Bank, Ltd., World Trade Center.

Andrew Steven Zucker, 27, Riverdale, N.Y., Harris Beach LLP, World Trade Center.

Igor Zukelman, 29, Fiduciary Trust Company International, World Trade Center.


Tell me, have you told all those who knew these people, their parents, family, kids, that you know the truth?

Did you try to confirm those who were killed before spreading the dumbest lie in history? You failed to prove the videos are fake - FAILED
Oh the horror!

How have you verified all of these stories? I think the're B.S., therefore I don't really worry about their fictional families. I'm in the book if they want to reach out to me.

Their emotional tales don't change the evidence that proves they're B.S.

Last edited by yankee451; 15th January 2020 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:32 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Liar
Until the media broadcast the cartoon plane flying behind the towers, followed by the fireball that erupted from the opposite side of the tower, no one was sure what happened, but most of the reports were that something other than a large jet struck. The truth hurts, but it will set you free.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:34 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Wow. So this means the steel wasn't bent sharply in a completely different direction than the mostly hollow aluminum wing was traveling.
Wow, no. It means that people will often respond to a sudden traumatic events with hyperbolic terms which aren't accurate descriptors.

Has nothing to do with your provably inaccurate photo analysis.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:37 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No, that's not my contention, and you know it.
How would I know that? You are not exactly forthcoming on this topic. "Pass through" was your expression.

Quote:
Before it could cut the steel, it would cut the aluminum. That's my contention. My conclusion is that it was not struck from the front, as seen in the aluminum cladding that was not cut.
So are you saying that the column will not be affected at all until the aluminium cladding is "cut"?

Or will you at least concede that the column itself will start to compress almost as soon as the aluminium starts to compress?
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Last edited by Robin; 15th January 2020 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:39 PM   #867
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Almost 20 years later and some people can still remember the lies that got the world into its current mess. You can go back to examining your navel now.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

I prefer clementines, thanks.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:40 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Oh the horror!

How have you verified all of these stories? I think the're B.S., therefore I don't really worry about their fictional families. I'm in the book if they want to reach out to me.

Their emotional tales don't change the evidence that proves they're B.S.
I think this is getting out of hands. I was following with a mild amusement this clowns insulting members of this forum left right and centre, but there is no way to be amused by his outrageous attitude to the victims of this tragedy and their families. If there is a vote to ban him from this forum, you have both my hands up. I am sure such a decision would't cause any grief or damage.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:58 PM   #869
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Again, not shown live, and according to Evan Fairbanks himself it flew into the building, "...like a bad special effect."

You're right about the illusion part, according to this photo, the jet couldn't even slide like butter through the aluminum sheeting that covered the column.

https://911crashtest.org/wp-content/...ith_circle.png
Here's the problem, Skippy, the aluminum sheet WAS CUT and later fell off.








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Old 15th January 2020, 10:08 PM   #870
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Here's the problem, Skippy, the aluminum sheet WAS CUT and later fell off.


https://i.imgur.com/W89yUZ1.jpg





https://i.imgur.com/NIS9e5k.jpg
Different tower.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:17 PM   #871
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
You will do anything to avoid answering my question, won't you?

I could do it for real, but I want to find out what you think would happen.

You are saying that unless the aluminium cladding is sliced all the way through, including the parts around the sides, there won't be any damage to the steel square section?

(Edit: I can add a layer of fire retardant between my aluminium and steel if you like, just name the material)


Sure, why not. Please demonstrate using a wing and some steel box columns built to the same specifications as the WTC, and show me how the wing slices the steel without slicing the cladding. And then you can explain why only this one piece of cladding remained standing (even though the hole behind it was huge), albeit bent in the wrong direction, but the aluminum cladding to the left and right of this lone column, were sliced off. Don't mention the steel columns also bent sharply in the wrong direction.





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Old 15th January 2020, 10:21 PM   #872
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Here's the problem, Skippy, the aluminum sheet WAS CUT and later fell off.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:21 PM   #873
Robin
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Here is the full damage for the tower in question:



Here is a close up of the loose cladding:



It looks like there is a hole in the middle, but the sides are still intact.

That is consistent with it being hit from the front.

Not consistent with a cruise missile having hit it from the side.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:28 PM   #874
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You are still to explain what kind of a missile could do that. Don't forget the wing on the right side.

Something like this?

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Old 15th January 2020, 10:33 PM   #875
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:34 PM   #876
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Different tower.
Beat me to it.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:40 PM   #877
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Different tower.
Doesn't matter.

Every facet of the attack are an outrageous lie perpetrated by the US government spread through their puppet mainstream media. This is clearly evident from the fuzzy crops Steve has created from images released through mainstream media sources.

Entirely plausible.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:41 PM   #878
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Yes. Something like a JASSM can explain it nicely. The warhead is designed for punching through hardened targets with or without detonating. At an angle of attack of somewhere around 15 degrees from parallel to the tower, the wing of the missile would hit first, which is why at the far left of both towers the cladding is only lightly damaged. The progressively worse damage to the columns is explained by the warhead penetrating deeper into the tower, but it loses energy as it penetrated so what began with gouged steel columns ends up only bending them as it slows down.

A rocket sled test center can put this conclusion to the test.




Something like this:
https://youtu.be/5_a1foRId6M
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:48 PM   #879
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Here is the full damage for the tower in question:

https://robinsrevision.files.wordpre...outh.jpg?w=800

Here is a close up of the loose cladding:

https://robinsrevision.files.wordpre...ge-4.png?w=567

It looks like there is a hole in the middle, but the sides are still intact.

That is consistent with it being hit from the front.

Not consistent with a cruise missile having hit it from the side.

Sure it is, it cut through the sides of both the steel and the cladding, but only through the face of the steel. The warhead pushed out the cladding from the inside as it passed behind it. I'm surprised it was damaged as little as it was, considering a 900 lb warhead just blew a big hole in the steel that cladding was covering.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:50 PM   #880
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
You are still to explain what kind of a missile could do that. Don't forget the wing on the right side.

Something like this?

https://robinsrevision.files.wordpre...ge-5.png?w=706
I explain it in detail in this post.
https://911crashtest.org/9-11-truth-...e-shaped-hole/

The first 9 columns from the left of both impact holes are enough to prove what didn't do it, and what probably did. However the right side is a bit different from the left.

Last edited by yankee451; 15th January 2020 at 10:54 PM.
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