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Old 31st May 2018, 09:56 PM   #361
Hans
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
You so underestimate Dr. Mills it boggles the mind.
You so trust AND overestimate the scammer Mills it boggles our minds
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Old 31st May 2018, 09:57 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows. .
OH, uh, ah, I know is it a number between -1 and -0.000001?
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Old 31st May 2018, 10:29 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
There is only so much a smaller company like BLP can do at one time.


It's called licensing.

I guess we can add that to the list of things everyone else in the world knows about, but that Mills can't quite grasp.
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Old 31st May 2018, 11:58 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Well there are open and closed MHD drives. But in both cases there is essentially a hot end and a cold end. As I understand it, in an open MHD drive there is the hot end where combustion occurs and where a metal alkali is seeded. It ionizes and is shot out the exhaust along with combustion products. The moving ions produce work against the magnetic field and ultimately produces electricity. I assume Mills is going to be using a closed MHD drive. This would typically involve heating a sealed container on one end, and the heated plasma expands and moves to the cooler end, producing work against an external magnetic field, and then the cooler fluid or gas is circulated back to the hot end and the process repeated, possible pulsed. The plasma/gas/fluid would be some kind of alkali metal.

Now, I am only speculating here, but the novelty of Mills' approach may be that he is not heating the closed MHD from without, but within.
But it would not be entirely closed; there would be some inlet for small amount of hydrogen gas. The dihydrino gas waste product would escape through the walls of the container. Again, just speculation on my part.

How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows. But there is dihydrino gas that would largely escape and is difficult to trap, and then there are various hydrino hydrides that are crystalline compounds.
He could try wrapping some copper tubing around the hot end....
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Old 1st June 2018, 12:01 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
OH, uh, ah, I know is it a number between -1 and -0.000001?
Well it depends when markie is telling us, previously he has claimed that compounds etc. have been sent to independent labs decades ago, but now he is telling us no such compounds have been made, just predicted.
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Old 1st June 2018, 12:03 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
It's called licensing.

I guess we can add that to the list of things everyone else in the world knows about, but that Mills can't quite grasp.
Doesn't even need to go down a licencing route, if he had any kind of positive results he could get any number of universities to engage in primary research with a standard commercial clause.
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Old 1st June 2018, 01:25 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows.
Everyone else in the thread, for a start.

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Old 1st June 2018, 01:52 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
...snip....

How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows. ...snip...
You did claim to know some has been produced and sent to independent labs, granted you have now retracted that claim.
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:17 AM   #369
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Sorry, markie, but you and Mills have at least one thing in common: you have no faint trace of competence when it comes to heat.

Mills has consistently and stubbornly refused to deal with the fact that we know quite well how to extract electrical power from a heat source, particularly one that gets "industrially" hot (like, combustion hot). For conventional power plants, efficiency can run on the order of 40%.

All of Mills's extraction techniques such as photovoltaic and MHD are demonstrably worse than this, and as a result any commercial product is doomed to failure, since a competitor can simply buy one of Mills's units, strip out the crappy generation stage, integrate it into a steam system and do better.

Oh yes, and if you're thinking of waving your hands and suggesting that Mills's "equations and models" must (of course) take this into account for his latest and greatest, I suggest you not embarrass yourself. If, for instance, Mills can get 50% efficiency out of his "novel" MHD system, that's about twice the efficiency you can get out of available systems, and this would represent yet another case of Mills sitting on revolutionary technology rather than releasing it to acclaim and profit. It would provide yet another example (assuming Mills is truthful about his units' performance) of Mills stubborn refusal to make the world a better place for reasons which are, at best, obscure. At worst, he is an obsessive control freak who cannot bear to release his inventions unless he controls them entirely.

Worst worst case is that he's a fraud, but the previous assumed otherwise.
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:19 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You did claim to know some has been produced and sent to independent labs, granted you have now retracted that claim.
Yeah some has been sent to independent labs. Why you say I have retracted that claim is beyond me.
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:40 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Sorry, markie, but you and Mills have at least one thing in common: you have no faint trace of competence when it comes to heat.

Mills has consistently and stubbornly refused to deal with the fact that we know quite well how to extract electrical power from a heat source, particularly one that gets "industrially" hot (like, combustion hot). For conventional power plants, efficiency can run on the order of 40%.

All of Mills's extraction techniques such as photovoltaic and MHD are demonstrably worse than this, and as a result any commercial product is doomed to failure, since a competitor can simply buy one of Mills's units, strip out the crappy generation stage, integrate it into a steam system and do better.

Oh yes, and if you're thinking of waving your hands and suggesting that Mills's "equations and models" must (of course) take this into account for his latest and greatest, I suggest you not embarrass yourself. If, for instance, Mills can get 50% efficiency out of his "novel" MHD system, that's about twice the efficiency you can get out of available systems, and this would represent yet another case of Mills sitting on revolutionary technology rather than releasing it to acclaim and profit. It would provide yet another example (assuming Mills is truthful about his units' performance) of Mills stubborn refusal to make the world a better place for reasons which are, at best, obscure. At worst, he is an obsessive control freak who cannot bear to release his inventions unless he controls them entirely.

Worst worst case is that he's a fraud, but the previous assumed otherwise.

As I've said before, and as seen in the quarterly, BLP is pursuing MHD, photovoltaic and heat application. The later can be fit into a traditional type of turbine, or used only as heat. But of course BLP has to achieve a working SunCell prototype before any of the three applications are realized. As I've said before, the heater application will almost certainly come first because it's easiest.

As I've said before, Mills is well aware of conventional means to convert heat to electricity. For example see
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/er.1834
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:41 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
<snip>

How much hydrino has been produced at BLP? Who knows. <snip>
Originally Posted by markie View Post
Originally Posted by Darat
You did claim to know some has been produced and sent to independent labs, granted you have now retracted that claim.
Yeah some has been sent to independent labs. Why you say I have retracted that claim is beyond me.
So, you, markie do know!

Or at least you should be capable of making a highly informed estimate of a lower bound.

For example: as of December, 1999, 23.2 kg of hydrino compounds had been shipped to independent labs. Assuming 1%, by mass, is hydrino, that's 2.32 kg. Further, as of December, 2017, Mills had produced 2 GWh of energy, from hydrogen transitioning to hydrino, in all experiments and all prototypes. Assuming the transitions were all to the highest hydrino state (x eV), this is at least y kg.
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:45 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
As I've said before, and as seen in the quarterly, BLP is pursuing MHD, photovoltaic and heat application. The later can be fit into a traditional type of turbine, or used only as heat. But of course BLP has to achieve a working SunCell prototype before any of the three applications are realized. As I've said before, the heater application will almost certainly come first because it's easiest.
And here we go round again with the good old bait-and-switch. We've been told that Mills has the SunCell working fine and producing lots of heat, but there are some bugs to be ironed out in converting that heat to electricity; now we're being told that converting the heat to electricity is trivial but the SunCell isn't quite working yet; and next it'll be back to the SunCell producing enormous quantities of heat but for some reason converting heat to electricity has become temporarily unfeasible again. Rinse and repeat for another thirty years.

It must be weird having no sense of shame.

Dave
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:47 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
It's called licensing.

I guess we can add that to the list of things everyone else in the world knows about, but that Mills can't quite grasp.
It shows you have no clue about what BLP is about.
BLP is all about licensing out their technology.
Google it.
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:47 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Or at least you should be capable of making a highly informed estimate of a lower bound.
Again, as can everyone else in the thread; and it happens to coincide with the upper bound.

Dave
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Old 1st June 2018, 05:53 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And here we go round again with the good old bait-and-switch. We've been told that Mills has the SunCell working fine and producing lots of heat, but there are some bugs to be ironed out in converting that heat to electricity; now we're being told that converting the heat to electricity is trivial but the SunCell isn't quite working yet; and next it'll be back to the SunCell producing enormous quantities of heat but for some reason converting heat to electricity has become temporarily unfeasible again. Rinse and repeat for another thirty years.

It must be weird having no sense of shame.

Dave
Who has told you that the Suncell is working fine? BLP hasn't yet attained a closed SunCell!
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:06 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Who has told you that the Suncell is working fine? BLP hasn't yet attained a closed SunCell!
Putting aside the deliberately misleading terminology, this is from last January.

Quote:
The "essentially free" energy generator was created by a company called Brilliant Light Power (BrLP), that was founded by Dr. Randell Mills, a Harvard trained medical doctor.

In basic terms, the generator works by reacting a very tiny amount of hydrogen with a silver catalyst and then exposing that reaction to an electrical discharge. When the hydrogen, silver and electrical discharge combine, the hydrogen atoms shrink, releasing a tremendous amount of energy in the process. Using Mills process, a gallon of water has the same energy potential of around 2000 gallons of gasoline. The amount of hydrogen needed is so small that the generator can pull the hydrogen it needs from water in the surrounding air. This enormous release of energy is then used to basically form the filament of a carbon light bulb.

The carbon light bulb glows so brightly from the heat that it reaches the equivalent brightness of over 2000 suns, with the potential to go even higher in the future. The light bulb is surrounded by an array of special solar cells called concentrator solar cells that are able to harness the energy from this enormously bright light source. These special solar cells already exist and are in use in solar farms around the world today.

BrLP already has the “light bulb” portion of this generator fully prototyped and working. Obviously that’s the hard part since the rest of the parts for the generator already exist from off-the-shelf suppliers. Mills is projecting production units to be ready for delivery by the second half of 2017, with a fully prototyped working generator ready for field testing by the first half of 2017. Once Mills rolls out that first generator, be prepared for a monumental media **** storm to hit the public.
Yeah, of course you're going to claim that this is somehow a completely different thing to the SunCell. But that's the basis of the scam; every time it gets a bit too long since the last READY FOR MARKET IN A MATTER OF MONTHS!!!!! claim, suddenly there's a completely new product with a different name that's going to be so much better, but it'll take just a few more months. Or a couple of years. Or, you know, maybe longer, because this stuff is really hard. And any claims from ten or twenty or thirty years ago are quietly glossed over because Mills is such a bright guy but he just has this one more problem that needs solving, then another, then another, then another....

As I said, no sense of shame.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:09 AM   #378
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All reported "independent" work on hydrinos is actually all connected to Mills, as far as I can tell.

There is no work on hydrinos, no testing of devices, no replications of work, that is not directly connected to Mills.

Mills either paid for it, supervised it, or had a company representative supervise it, as far as I can tell.

Every avenue of "independence" leads right back to Mills, imo.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:11 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
It shows you have no clue about what BLP is about.

BLP is all about licensing out their technology.

Google it.


That’s a bald faced lie and I think you know it.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:13 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Yeah some has been sent to independent labs. Why you say I have retracted that claim is beyond me.
Because I read your posts, perhaps you forgot just a little while ago you said:

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
This is now:

Originally Posted by markie View Post
New hydrino compounds have only been predicted and identified. I've never heard of them being actually tested for, say, battery applications. That in itself will take years after a hydrino energy source is established in the marketplace.
This was then:

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The ones he promised to researchers and then never delivered.

Also when will he be providing his first sample with "anti-gravity" properties as he also promised back in the early days?
Those crystal compounds were delivered to lots of labs, as described earlier in this thread.

Hydrino hydrides don't have antigravity properties. Rather, Mills proposes that a free electron can be so energized as to produce a hyperbolic space time curvature around it, which would counter the positive space time curvature of gravity..
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:24 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Who has told you that the Suncell is working fine? BLP hasn't yet attained a closed SunCell!
Having the Sun Cell "open" did not prevent it from working, it only limited how long it could work, because the silver was able to evaporate over time.

Mills has claimed every one of his devices is working and commercially ready, imo. Over decades. Including the signing of dozens of contracts to produce power over that time frame.

Links have been provided many times.

Mills continually claims his device is working, then changes the device design, preventing him from releasing it, then claims that the new design is working, then changes the design again, and repeat.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:28 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Putting aside the deliberately misleading terminology, this is from last January.



Yeah, of course you're going to claim that this is somehow a completely different thing to the SunCell. But that's the basis of the scam; every time it gets a bit too long since the last READY FOR MARKET IN A MATTER OF MONTHS!!!!! claim, suddenly there's a completely new product with a different name that's going to be so much better, but it'll take just a few more months. Or a couple of years. Or, you know, maybe longer, because this stuff is really hard. And any claims from ten or twenty or thirty years ago are quietly glossed over because Mills is such a bright guy but he just has this one more problem that needs solving, then another, then another, then another....

As I said, no sense of shame.

Dave
Quote:
The carbon light bulb glows so brightly from the heat that it reaches the equivalent brightness of over 2000 suns, with the potential to go even higher in the future. The light bulb is surrounded by an array of special solar cells called concentrator solar cells that are able to harness the energy from this enormously bright light source. These special solar cells already exist and are in use in solar farms around the world today.

BrLP already has the “light bulb” portion of this generator fully prototyped and working. Obviously that’s the hard part since the rest of the parts for the generator already exist from off-the-shelf suppliers.
I'm not much familiar with the original parts of this thread. Michael S. seems confused about some points. What was glowing brightly was plasma, running in a transparent glove box with vapours vented out through a fume hood. They haven't achieved a glowing white hot domed Suncell yet. Michael S seems to be confusing the two.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:33 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
All reported "independent" work on hydrinos is actually all connected to Mills, as far as I can tell.

There is no work on hydrinos, no testing of devices, no replications of work, that is not directly connected to Mills.

Mills either paid for it, supervised it, or had a company representative supervise it, as far as I can tell.

Every avenue of "independence" leads right back to Mills, imo.
I would largely agree. A lab that wants to work on this type of thing must, from a legal standpoint, have BLP's permission as I understand it.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:40 AM   #384
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Mills continues to be successful at what he does best, misdirection. The discussion here lately has been more about BLP's silly energy conversion strategies and the focus has been taken away from the only thing that really matters: the lack of any real evidence for a new reaction that produces vast amounts of energy using only hydrogen as fuel.

The latest BLP quarterly report puts the focus on the path to a prototype for a marketable product, ignoring how crazy it is to proceed to that step without first having a lab experiment that clearly demonstrates that a sustained reaction (or any reaction) is even possible. The sensible approach would be to produce such a reaction and then tweak the experiment in order to optimize it and discover the best way to produce it.

Instead Mills states that he knows exactly how the reaction works and puts all of the effort into designing commercial prototypes, each of which ends up a failure. Anyone not invested in Mills can see that this is an obvious misdirection away from what really matters.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:42 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That’s a bald faced lie and I think you know it.
Huh? Check out BLP's business section. For instance from
https://brilliantlightpower.com/about/#anchor

Quote:
BrLP plans to maintain ownership of SunCells® while outsourcing the manufacturing, supply chain management, installation, maintenance and repairs, and billing.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:48 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because I read your posts, perhaps you forgot just a little while ago you said:
I say that BLP has predicted and in house identified properties of hydrino, and sent also sent samples out to labs for 'independent' testing and analysis.

I also say that BLP has not (to my knowledge) tested such compounds explicitly for particular uses, such as battery performance.

It shouldn't be hard to distinguish the two points.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:50 AM   #387
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"For stationary power, BrLP plans to sell power under equipment lease agreements and charge a daily rate that on average amounts to about the same flat rate per kilowatt hour as about one half the cost of competing sources of delivered power. A representative United States rate for 50% utilization of the maximum leased capacity is $0.05/kWh total delivered cost. There is a one-time installment fee dependent on the unit’s power capacity that is projected to be about the capital cost of the equipment (e.g. $50 to $100/kW). The maximum capacity may be based on the contracted load and historical norms."

So, I'd pay a $10K install fee for a 100KW device, and then I'd pay 5 cents per kwh thereafter for about half load?
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:53 AM   #388
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I'd use Mills generator to sell power back to the grid...

If it was real.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:55 AM   #389
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Elon Musk should be all over Mills for cheap electricity for Tesla charging stations.

Oddly, all Tesla charging stations are powered in conventional ways.
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:58 AM   #390
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Quote:
To date, the Company has licensed the rights to produce approximately 8,250 MW of new electrical power to seven companies, including five electrical utilities and two independent power producers. Collectively, these utility companies own, purchase, or manage electric power production of approximately 7,600 MW and service nearly one million customers. The avoided fuel costs from these agreements could be in excess of $2 billion per year.
None of that can be verified, neither the agreements, nor any power production related to the agreements.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 1st June 2018, 06:59 AM   #391
jrhowell
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BrLP plans to maintain ownership of SunCells® while outsourcing the manufacturing, supply chain management, installation, maintenance and repairs, and billing.
The business plan for BLP is ridiculous, designed to appeal to potential investors who want to get rich quick and don't think through the implications of Mill's ideas actually working.

It makes no economic sense to mess around designing generators, or products of any kind. The real value in hydrino technology, if it actually existed, would be in licensing the method used to produce the reaction. And to do that they only need an experimental setup that unambiguously produces the reaction. Any time spent on things beyond that just delays the eventual payday for the investors.

The only way their approach makes any sense at all is as a scam.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:02 AM   #392
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
The business plan for BLP is ridiculous, designed to appeal to potential investors who want to get rich quick and don't think through the implications of Mill's ideas actually working.

It makes no economic sense to mess around designing generators, or products of any kind. The real value in hydrino technology, if it actually existed, would be in licensing the method used to produce the reaction. And to do that they only need an experimental setup that unambiguously produces the reaction. Any time spent on things beyond that just delays the eventual payday for the investors.

The only way their approach makes any sense at all is as a scam.
Yep:

Quote:
BrLP plans to lease SunCells® installed in vehicles such as cars, buses, and trucks and charge by the mile or hour of usage to facilitate motive power.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:04 AM   #393
WhatRoughBeast
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
It shows you have no clue about what BLP is about.
BLP is all about licensing out their technology.
Google it.
No, it shows that, unlike some, he does have a clue.

Let's put it to the test, shall we?

In 30 years, how much technology have they licensed out?

Note that the claims of 10 or 15 years ago don't count. They signed about 8 different agreements (labelled technology sharing rather than licences), and delivered on none of them.

Or wait, let's be fair and rephrase the question.

In 30 years, how much technology have they licensed out and delivered?
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:22 AM   #394
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Huh? Check out BLP's business section. For instance from

https://brilliantlightpower.com/about/#anchor


That’s cute.

Got anything that doesn’t come from the marketing department of a company known to lie about timelines and commercial product readiness?

Theranos has similar overblown claims about their tech and partnerships.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:22 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Well it depends when markie is telling us, previously he has claimed that compounds etc. have been sent to independent labs decades ago, but now he is telling us no such compounds have been made, just predicted.
Yeah he does seem rather flexible on that point. Sometimes Hydrinos exist sometimes they don't. Depends on who is he's responding to and what he is trying to avoid or pretend is real.

Pseudo-Hucksterism at its best!
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:23 AM   #396
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I'm not much familiar with the original parts of this thread. Michael S. seems confused about some points. What was glowing brightly was plasma, running in a transparent glove box with vapours vented out through a fume hood. They haven't achieved a glowing white hot domed Suncell yet. Michael S seems to be confusing the two.
In a couple of years, when there's still no product on the market, I expect the next Mills shill to be saying precisely the same things about you. That's all part of the scam cycle too; "The last guy was too optimistic, but this time it's for real."

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Old 1st June 2018, 07:27 AM   #397
markie
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
The business plan for BLP is ridiculous, designed to appeal to potential investors who want to get rich quick and don't think through the implications of Mill's ideas actually working.

It makes no economic sense to mess around designing generators, or products of any kind. The real value in hydrino technology, if it actually existed, would be in licensing the method used to produce the reaction. And to do that they only need an experimental setup that unambiguously produces the reaction. Any time spent on things beyond that just delays the eventual payday for the investors.

The only way their approach makes any sense at all is as a scam.
Quote:
The real value in hydrino technology, if it actually existed, would be in licensing the method used to produce the reaction. And to do that they only need an experimental setup that unambiguously produces the reaction.
BLP has to establish that method first so it works at high power, long term, and in a closed system. It's called the SunCell! And they are working on it! When they have that method down and it unambiguously produces excess energy, then they will license out the manufacture of SunCells.

Darat was all for parallel research, but you apparently not.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:35 AM   #398
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
In a couple of years, when there's still no product on the market, I expect the next Mills shill to be saying precisely the same things about you. That's all part of the scam cycle too; "The last guy was too optimistic, but this time it's for real."



Dave


On the bright side this means Mills and BLP are great at recycling.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:43 AM   #399
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
BLP has to establish that method first so it works at high power, long term, and in a closed system. It's called the SunCell! And they are working on it! When they have that method down and it unambiguously produces excess energy, then they will license out the manufacture of SunCells.



Darat was all for parallel research, but you apparently not.


You completely missed the point people are making. They don’t have to produce the SunCell to start making money hand over fist. All they really need is to license out the heat source. A stable, reliable reaction is all they need. They can license out the technology and someone else wraps a steam engine around it to start producing electricity.

You are describing Mills as an ignorant moron when it comes to business. You are describing an obsession with a polished consumer product when the company could finance the development of such a product by licensing technology they’ve been claiming they had for over 20 years.

Their claims of having a stable reaction are at this point old enough to buy alcohol in the United States. Despite this, the blithering idiots have yet to make a single penny.

If Mills had been running Apple, he would’ve held off on the sale of the first iPhone until the 7 was ready for market.

Even if Mills is telling the truth about the state of his technology you would be a moron to invest in his company. As a businessman he is grotesquely incompetent.
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Old 1st June 2018, 07:43 AM   #400
ferd burfle
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I'm not much familiar with the original parts of this thread. Michael S. seems confused about some points. What was glowing brightly was plasma, running in a transparent glove box with vapours vented out through a fume hood. They haven't achieved a glowing white hot domed Suncell yet. Michael S seems to be confusing the two.

Glove box? Vented to the atmosphere? I thought plasmas require a pretty good vacuum.

I look forward to your arm-waving.
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Last edited by ferd burfle; 1st June 2018 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Corrected verb tense
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