Mystery illness in US consulate due to non-ionizing radiation? - Page 4

dann · 15th June 2018, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Planigale

Interesting. There is a an element that one allergy can stimulate the immune system non specifically, and what were low level allergies become significant; given several months (the half life of circulating antibodies is several weeks) of avoiding the primary allergen then the levels of antibodies to other allergens will fall. A second phenomena is that constant exposure can sometimes be better than intermittent, one way of treating severe aspirin sensitivity is to give daily aspirin, this prevents a life threatening reaction. A recent trial in England involved feeding babies of peanut sensitive parents daily peanut mush this prevented the babies developing peanut allergy. (In W. Africa peanut mush is a favoured weaning food and peanut allergy is very rare.)

A very similar way of treating peanut allergy is being developed: Successful clinical trial for peanut allergy treatment spreads hope (Mar. 7. 2018). I'm happy that my own peanut allergy isn't as extreme as some cases are: I've never had to worry about the "May contain traces of ..." warnings!

Captain_Swoop · 15th June 2018, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Each one feels like a small bite or an itch. When I walked into a dusty office it felt like a cloud of tiny bites rising up around my legs from the carpet.

In a bedroom with mites, I could feel the bites all over.

It is very difficult to get rid of dust mites. I know how to do it now. The usual tactics did not work when they are in the bedding, the carpets, the pillows and the curtains. And in the roof spaces coming in through the cracks.

You do know these mites don't fly through the air towards you when you walk in to a room?

Captain_Swoop · 15th June 2018, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I was losing my hair in front and suspected demodectic mites in the hair follicles. Again, I could feel them at night when they come out to mate.

Of course you could.

Quote:

I do not need double blind scientific tests.

Of course you don't

Kid Eager · 15th June 2018, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

The "non-standard" method that I discovered myself is to use finely powered boric acid on everything. It kills the dust mites within minutes.

I was losing my hair in front and suspected demodectic mites in the hair follicles. Again, I could feel them at night when they come out to mate.

I tried using Australian tea tree oil. First 20% then 100%. I even put it full strength on my eyelashes (with care). A favorite place for them. It did not help.

It took about a week of powdering myself with boric acid powder before bed time to get rid of them. And I stopped losing my hair! You can scoff all you like. I have stopped going bald, and even reversed the front and top patches.

I do not need double blind scientific tests. I know I am a dust mite detector, and my "cure" works. On this, you can test me if you want to pay for it.

You are not qualified to make this self-diagnosis.

dann · 16th June 2018, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I was losing my hair in front and suspected demodectic mites in the hair follicles. Again, I could feel them at night when they come out to mate.

It must be due to the excessive speed when they move about - and probably mate, as well:

Quote:

The mites can leave the hair follicles and slowly walk around on the skin, at a speed of 8–16 mm (0.31–0.63 in) per hour, especially at night, as they try to avoid light.
D. folliculorum and D. brevis (Wikipedia)

I can recommend the Danish novel by Sven Holm, Syg og munter (Sick and Happy), about a guy who suffers from acarophobia, which, by the way, is a condition for which there is a treatment:

Quote:

"In many cases, the individual might not realize they have the phobia. Depending on how serious the phobia is, the thought that they might have it does not cross their minds and they might even think their fear is normal. Having a fear of something to the point where it causes the symptoms mentioned above, is not normal and should not be something someone goes through every time they encounter a small bug or insect."
https://www.empowher.com/community/s...at-acarophobia

ETA: Syg og munter, the movie:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Pixel42 · 16th June 2018, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Do you really think that an increase in radiation actually benefits humans?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I do not need double blind scientific tests.

As usual you are assuming that your instinct/common sense/subjective experiences are giving you the right answer, without bothering to check or even seeing any need to check. History suggests that making such an assumption is inadvisable, to put it mildly, as every scientist who ever contributed to humanity's precious store of verified knowledge and understanding would tell you if you curtailed your arrogance long enough to listen.

dann · 17th June 2018, 05:10 AM

Court case in Denmark right now. Usædvanlig retssag: Jettes el-allergi kostede hende jobbet (Ekstra Bladet, May 31, 2018) "Unusual court case: Jette lost her job due to electro allergy."

Quote:

Hun mener, hun lider af stråleoverfølsomhed – også kaldet EHS, og at hun ikke kan tåle strålerne fra blandt andet wi-fi, smartphones og den mobilmast, der står i nærheden af huset.
A-kassen mener, at Jette Paulsen er for syg til at passe et arbejde.
Men i kommunen mener man ikke, at hun er syg, da EHS ikke er en anerkendt sygdom i Danmark. Derfor vil de ikke give hende sygedagpenge.
Jette går forrest i principiel retssag: For syg til at arbejde, men for rask til at få hjælp (DR, Jun. 1. 2018)

My translation:

Quote:

She thinks that she suffers from hypersensitivity to electromagnetic radiation - also called EHS, and that she can't tolerate the rays from, among other things, wi-fi, smart phones and the cell phone tower near her house. The unemployment benefit office thinks that Jette Paulsen is too ill to have a job.
But at the municipal office they don't think that she is ill since EHS is not a recognized disease in Denmark so they won't give her sick pay.
Jette is at the forefront in important court case: Too ill to work, but too healthy to receive benefits

I wrote this article in 2011: E-sans for viderekomne – en populær vrangforestilling (Dansk Skeptica, Apr. 7, 2011) "Advanced 'e sense' - a popular delusion"

RecoveringYuppy · 17th June 2018, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

You do know these mites don't fly through the air towards you when you walk in to a room?

Someone may have pointed this out already but dust mites also don't bite people.

dann · 18th June 2018, 12:31 AM

And another one ...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Puppycow · 18th June 2018, 02:43 AM

This thread reminds me of Better Call Saul. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

The condition, even if of psychosomatic origin, seems very debilitating, even dangerous. I won't spoil anything for those who haven't seen the show or aren't up to date with it, but it can lead to tragic results in extreme cases. If someone feels that it is real for them, no amount of logic or argument will convince them otherwise.

Pixel42 · 18th June 2018, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Someone may have pointed this out already but dust mites also don't bite people.

True. The allergy is actually to their faeces, AIUI.

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by macdoc

It's not "think" ....there are studies in high natural background radiation areas that support it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477686/

and here's a mind bender from that

And they have ruled out any other factors from the Chernobyl cleanup guys? Like choosing healthy individuals to start with. The wimps got sick before they were even sent?

It is one thing when an industry tells people there is no danger using biased studies. It is another kettle of fish when an industry promotes the dangers as benefits.

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by macdoc

It's not "think" ....there are studies in high natural background radiation areas that support it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477686/

and here's a mind bender from that

I just read through the ncbi article. I am stunned and gobsmacked.

Do you believe this concept? If I sold you some radium and told you to keep it in your pants pocket to ward off prostate cancer, would you buy it? (The radium and the concept?

)

What is the mechanism? They offer nothing at all in this regard. Just data that has been "normalised".

Have people been "degraded" intellectually so that they are "happy zombies" who have no stress and therefore are healthier?

BTW. Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate.

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

You do know these mites don't fly through the air towards you when you walk in to a room?

Ever heard of Brownian motion? Do you think that dust mites in the air remain stationary? And when one walks on a carpet and acquires an electrostatic charge, do you think it might attract some mites?

If the air above a dusty carpet is filled with mites and whose density falls off with height, then walking into such a room would be like wading into a sea filled with stinging little creatures. I can feel the density. High just above my ankle and low just below my knees.

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Of course you could.

Of course you don't

Glad you finally agree with me. Oh wait, maybe you are being sarcastic!

arthwollipot · 18th June 2018, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Do you think that dust mites in the air remain stationary?

Do you think that dust mites can fly?

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by dann

Court case in Denmark right now. Usædvanlig retssag: Jettes el-allergi kostede hende jobbet (Ekstra Bladet, May 31, 2018) "Unusual court case: Jette lost her job due to electro allergy."

My translation:

I wrote this article in 2011: E-sans for viderekomne – en populær vrangforestilling (Dansk Skeptica, Apr. 7, 2011) "Advanced 'e sense' - a popular delusion"

The problem with low grade long-term health risks is that any effects are going to be subtle. One cannot measure the status of an immune system or degradation of thought processes. One can only measure the secondary effects such as cancers and autism, and then do statistical studies with a control group.

In the case of cell phone towers, it is becoming almost impossible to find a control group. If the health of the general population declines, then it can be attributed to a range of environmental toxins and pollutants.

It could also be coincidence that the symptoms appear at the same time as the cell tower. I also accept that fear of cell radiation could be a powerful "sickening" agent.

Can I argue that my "fear" of cell radiation is "real" and therefore the tower is a health hazard?

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Do you think that dust mites can fly?

There are thousands of dust mites per square inch. Do you think that they crawl everywhere?

Are they not the same size and weight as pollen?

PartSkeptic · 18th June 2018, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

True. The allergy is actually to their faeces, AIUI.

I do not disagree with the fact that they do not "bite". I am describing the feeling coming from one. It is half bite, half itch.

My skin is so sensitive that I could feel the eye doctor drop a contact lens onto my jeans, and tell him where it was.

I never had the mite sensitivity before a very dusty house in Brooklyn NY that had squirrels living in the walls and ceiling spaces.

I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal.

Mojo · 19th June 2018, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate.

Are you sure that you read it?

Pixel42 · 19th June 2018, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal.

I'm the one that goes wherever the objective evidence points, remember? You're the one that scoffs at anything that appears to contradict what instinct tells them regardless of the objective evidence.

macdoc · 19th June 2018, 03:57 AM

Quote:

ust read through the ncbi article. I am stunned and gobsmacked.

Do you believe this concept? If I sold you some radium and told you to keep it in your pants pocket to ward off prostate cancer, would you buy it? (The radium and the concept? )

What is the mechanism? They offer nothing at all in this regard. Just data that has been "normalised".

Have people been "degraded" intellectually so that they are "happy zombies" who have no stress and therefore are healthier?

BTW. Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate.

you haven't got a clue....am I afraid of radiation? ....no ....we evolved in it, billions of particles sleet through us every moment.

I have no need to 'beleive" ...I just follow the evidence. .....that you are gobsmacked is no surprise ....you seem to have a very faint grasp of the physical reality you live in .

....maybe some therapy is useful for your irrational fears.

Exposure to radium is not a good idea...perhaps you should do some reading

This is a science forum .....a certain level of knowledge is expected...

Captain_Swoop · 19th June 2018, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal.

Well, science goes with the evidence, wherever it leads. It doesn't decide on the conclusion it wants then cherry pick evidence or make it up to get there.

theprestige · 19th June 2018, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal.

They laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Which are you?

Come up with a theory as robust as the Big Bang Theory, and then we'll talk about the scoffing. Right now, you don't even have enough material for a pilot.

arthwollipot · 19th June 2018, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

There are thousands of dust mites per square inch. Do you think that they crawl everywhere?

Are they not the same size and weight as pollen?

Dust mites are members of the arachnid family. They have eight legs, and no wings. No, they can't fly.

RecoveringYuppy · 19th June 2018, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Dust mites are members of the arachnid family. They have eight legs, and no wings. No, they can't fly.

I think he compared them to pollen because he is implying they float around like pollen. And, in fact, he's correct about that, they can. But that doesn't really explain how they float around like pollen towards him when he enters a room.

arthwollipot · 19th June 2018, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

I think he compared them to pollen because he is implying they float around like pollen. And, in fact, he's correct about that, they can. But that doesn't really explain how they float around like pollen towards him when he enters a room.

I had to look this up. Dust mites, depending on the species, are between 0.2mm and 0.3mm in size. The largest windborne pollen grains are no larger than 0.1mm and most are considerably smaller, down to the smallest at 0.006mm. So he's not even really correct that they're comparable in size.

Though it is true that dust mites can drift on the wind, it's certainly not their standard method of getting around.

RecoveringYuppy · 19th June 2018, 07:40 PM

Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites.

Kid Eager · 19th June 2018, 08:16 PM

I'm waiting for Morgellons to be mentioned....

RecoveringYuppy · 19th June 2018, 08:17 PM

Morgellons. You're welcome.

ETA: Damn. Ninja'd by Kid Eager.

arthwollipot · 19th June 2018, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites.

Especially since the mites themselves have a considerable motivation to stay on the surface that they're walking on. There's no food for them up in the air.

So. Add "dust mite biology" to the list of things that PartSkeptic doesn't know about, and put it in the subcategory of things that can be discovered by spending five minutes on wikipedia.

PartSkeptic · 20th June 2018, 02:44 AM

So I have had a "gut feel" for a while that phone radiation is not good for a person. My gut feels are usually correct. As a result, I avoid using a device next to my head, and use a landline at every opportunity.

Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS?

1. Fertility is decreasing.
2. Autism is increasing
3. ADHD is increasing
4. Alzheimers is increasing

All of these can be made worse by chemical or radiation on the the VGCC in the membrane of cells.

This is now the proposed mechanism for the health risks of cell phone radiation.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltag...alcium_channel

Voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs), also known as voltage-dependent calcium channels (VDCCs), are a group of voltage-gated ion channels found in the membrane of excitable cells (e.g., muscle, glial cells, neurons, etc.) with a permeability to the calcium ion Ca2+.

These channels are slightly permeable to sodium ions, so they are also called Ca2+-Na+ channels, but their permeability to calcium is about 1000-fold greater than to sodium under normal physiological conditions.

At physiologic or resting membrane potential, VGCCs are normally closed. They are activated (i.e., opened) at depolarized membrane potentials and this is the source of the "voltage-gated" epithet. The concentration of calcium (Ca2+ ions) is normally several thousand times higher outside the cell than inside.

Activation of particular VGCCs allows Ca2+ to rush into the cell, which, depending on the cell type, results in activation of calcium-sensitive potassium channels, muscular contraction, excitation of neurons, up-regulation of gene expression, or release of hormones or neurotransmitters.

The industry accepts the VGCC effect but disputes the magnitude. Dr Pall explains why the industry is wrong.

Quote:

http://scientists4wiredtech.com/2017...opposes-sb649/

there exists exquisite sensitivity to electromagnetic fields (EMFs) in the voltage sensor in each cell, such that the force impacting our cells at the voltage sensor has massive impact on the biology in the cells of our bodies.

EMFs act by activating channels in the membrane that surrounds each of our cells, called voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs).

The EMFs put forces on the voltage sensor that controls the VGCCs of about 7.2 million times greater than the forces on other charged groups in our cells.This is why weak EMFs have such large biological effects on the cells of our bodies! EMFs works this way not only on human and diverse animal cells but also in plant cells so that this is a universal or near universal mechanism of action.

To make matters worse, multiple frequencies which are found next to towers make the situation far worse, as does pulsation of the frequencies.

There are about 1,600 to 2,000 studies which suggest (strongly suggest) that radiation is a factor. Of course, so are chemical toxins, and the cell phone industry jumps on that fact. The effect of EMF take decades to show. If our germ line is also being degraded then the human race may end up a bunch of morons. More than we already have.

Perhaps any planet that got cell phone technology extincted itself through decreasing fertility and those born had autism and premature Alzheimers. Fermi may have been more correct than he knew. Not war, just mass sterilization.

dann · 20th June 2018, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS?

No.

Quote:

Perhaps any planet that got cell phone technology extincted itself through decreasing fertility and those born had autism and premature Alzheimers. Fermi may have been more correct than he knew. Not war, just mass sterilization.

No planet that got cell-phone technology extincted itself. It was destroyed by cosmic bureaucrats doing routine maintenance.

dann · 20th June 2018, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites.

For the most part, dust-mite allergy is probably not caused by living dust mites but by their dead body parts and waste:

Quote:

What Is a Dust Mite Allergy?

An allergen is a substance that causes an allergic reaction. Both the body parts and the waste of dust mites are allergens for many people. Most dust mites die in low humidity levels or extreme temperatures. But they leave their dead bodies and waste behind. These can continue to cause allergic reactions. In a warm, humid house, dust mites can survive all year.
Dust Mite Allergy (AAFA)

Pixel42 · 20th June 2018, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

My gut feels are usually correct.

Says the man whose gut feeling that his Tarot card readings are more accurate than would be expected by chance was proved wrong right here on this board.

Quote:

Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS?

1. Fertility is decreasing.
2. Autism is increasing
3. ADHD is increasing
4. Alzheimers is increasing

Are you familiar with the saying "correlation does not equal causation"?

Have you researched any of these to find out if there is even any actual correlation, i.e. any rise in them did actually begin at the same time as cell phone usage, and the rate of increase matches? Have you researched other factors where there might plausibly be a link (e.g. increased reporting for 2 and 3, increasing life expectancy for 4 etc) to see if any of them correlate even better than increasing cell phone usage?

Scientists spend their whole careers collecting data and analysing it statistically to find just such correlations, and trying to establish which are also causally linked. A gullible woo slinger who thinks his gut feeling will provide more reliable answers to such questions than decades of painstaking research is simply laughable.

turingtest · 20th June 2018, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Says the man whose gut feeling that his Tarot card readings are more accurate than would be expected by chance was proved wrong right here on this board.

Are you familiar with the saying "correlation does not equal causation"?

Have you researched any of these to find out if there is even any actual correlation, i.e. any rise in them did actually begin at the same time as cell phone usage, and the rate of increase matches? Have you researched other factors where there might plausibly be a link (e.g. increased reporting for 2 and 3, increasing life expectancy for 4 etc) to see if any of them correlate even better than increasing cell phone usage?

Scientists spend their whole careers collecting data and analysing it statistically to find just such correlations, and trying to establish which are also causally linked. A gullible woo slinger who thinks his gut feeling will provide more reliable answers to such questions than decades of painstaking research is simply laughable.

His "fertility is decreasing" thing is especially laughable- there, he doesn't even have the correlation from which to infer causation. Here's some data I found which shows (first chart) that the biggest drop worldwide in fertility rates was between around 1965 to the mid 1990's- hardly attributable to cell phone usage, I think. You can add any given country to that chart, and I did so for the US and the UK (and Europe as a whole), since it would seem the more developed the country, the more prevalent cell phone usage would be; I found the same general pattern, that the most dramatic drop in fertility rates preceded what I would consider the cell-phone era.

In fact, reading further in that article, it would seem that the most reasonable conclusion is the most obvious one- that a decrease in fertility rates isn't so much an effect as it was a decision. Women don't have the same number of children as they used to because they don't have to. I'm sure PS would grumble about that (personally, I applaud it), but it's not cell phones he should be grumbling about. If you've just got to be a Luddite, at least be an honest one.

quadraginta · 20th June 2018, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by dann

No.

No planet that got cell-phone technology extincted itself. It was destroyed by cosmic bureaucrats doing routine maintenance.

Or by getting rid of all of its telephone sanitizers.

Dancing David · 20th June 2018, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

2. Autism is increasing

No it isn't, it used to be classified differently and most people with the mild end of the spectrum wouldn't even have been diagnosed until recently.

PartSkeptic · 20th June 2018, 10:59 AM

Some browsing.

1. Sperm counts down 60% in less than 40 years (in the West).
2. Autism rising a lot. Some due to diagnostics
3. ADHD. Some rise. Again diagnostic issues
4. Alzheimer's. Hard to tell. Much data is old, very old.

And the ELEPHANT in the room? The effects at low levels.

Two references.

http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientifi...docs/emf_6.pdf

and

http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/2223/1/2223.pdf

PartSkeptic · 20th June 2018, 11:28 AM

Check this chart showing "safe" levels and studies showing "effects".

http://www.bioinitiative.org/rf-color-charts/

0.01 microwatt per square cm tower exposure.

Chronic exposure to base station RF (whole-body) in humans showed increased stress hormones; dopamine levels substantially decreased; higher levels of adrenaline and nor-adrenaline; dose-response seen; produced chronic physiological stress in cells even after 1.5 years. 2012 study.

600 microwatt per square cm is the uncontrolled "safe" level.

15th June 2018, 02:14 PM	#121
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	Originally Posted by Planigale Interesting. There is a an element that one allergy can stimulate the immune system non specifically, and what were low level allergies become significant; given several months (the half life of circulating antibodies is several weeks) of avoiding the primary allergen then the levels of antibodies to other allergens will fall. A second phenomena is that constant exposure can sometimes be better than intermittent, one way of treating severe aspirin sensitivity is to give daily aspirin, this prevents a life threatening reaction. A recent trial in England involved feeding babies of peanut sensitive parents daily peanut mush this prevented the babies developing peanut allergy. (In W. Africa peanut mush is a favoured weaning food and peanut allergy is very rare.) A very similar way of treating peanut allergy is being developed: Successful clinical trial for peanut allergy treatment spreads hope (Mar. 7. 2018). I'm happy that my own peanut allergy isn't as extreme as some cases are: I've never had to worry about the "May contain traces of ..." warnings!
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

15th June 2018, 06:44 PM	#124
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,767	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic The "non-standard" method that I discovered myself is to use finely powered boric acid on everything. It kills the dust mites within minutes. I was losing my hair in front and suspected demodectic mites in the hair follicles. Again, I could feel them at night when they come out to mate. I tried using Australian tea tree oil. First 20% then 100%. I even put it full strength on my eyelashes (with care). A favorite place for them. It did not help. It took about a week of powdering myself with boric acid powder before bed time to get rid of them. And I stopped losing my hair! You can scoff all you like. I have stopped going bald, and even reversed the front and top patches. I do not need double blind scientific tests. I know I am a dust mite detector, and my "cure" works. On this, you can test me if you want to pay for it. You are not qualified to make this self-diagnosis.
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,767	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

16th June 2018, 01:13 AM	#126
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Do you really think that an increase in radiation actually benefits humans? Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I do not need double blind scientific tests. As usual you are assuming that your instinct/common sense/subjective experiences are giving you the right answer, without bothering to check or even seeing any need to check. History suggests that making such an assumption is inadvisable, to put it mildly, as every scientist who ever contributed to humanity's precious store of verified knowledge and understanding would tell you if you curtailed your arrogance long enough to listen.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

17th June 2018, 05:10 AM	#127
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	Court case in Denmark right now. Usædvanlig retssag: Jettes el-allergi kostede hende jobbet (Ekstra Bladet, May 31, 2018) "Unusual court case: Jette lost her job due to electro allergy." Quote: Hun mener, hun lider af stråleoverfølsomhed – også kaldet EHS, og at hun ikke kan tåle strålerne fra blandt andet wi-fi, smartphones og den mobilmast, der står i nærheden af huset. A-kassen mener, at Jette Paulsen er for syg til at passe et arbejde. Men i kommunen mener man ikke, at hun er syg, da EHS ikke er en anerkendt sygdom i Danmark. Derfor vil de ikke give hende sygedagpenge. Jette går forrest i principiel retssag: For syg til at arbejde, men for rask til at få hjælp (DR, Jun. 1. 2018) My translation: Quote: She thinks that she suffers from hypersensitivity to electromagnetic radiation - also called EHS, and that she can't tolerate the rays from, among other things, wi-fi, smart phones and the cell phone tower near her house. The unemployment benefit office thinks that Jette Paulsen is too ill to have a job. But at the municipal office they don't think that she is ill since EHS is not a recognized disease in Denmark so they won't give her sick pay. Jette is at the forefront in important court case: Too ill to work, but too healthy to receive benefits I wrote this article in 2011: E-sans for viderekomne – en populær vrangforestilling (Dansk Skeptica, Apr. 7, 2011) "Advanced 'e sense' - a popular delusion"
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

17th June 2018, 06:06 PM	#128
RecoveringYuppy Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,333	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop You do know these mites don't fly through the air towards you when you walk in to a room? Someone may have pointed this out already but dust mites also don't bite people.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

15th June 2018, 04:39 PM	#122
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Each one feels like a small bite or an itch. When I walked into a dusty office it felt like a cloud of tiny bites rising up around my legs from the carpet. In a bedroom with mites, I could feel the bites all over. It is very difficult to get rid of dust mites. I know how to do it now. The usual tactics did not work when they are in the bedding, the carpets, the pillows and the curtains. And in the roof spaces coming in through the cracks. You do know these mites don't fly through the air towards you when you walk in to a room?

15th June 2018, 04:41 PM	#123
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I was losing my hair in front and suspected demodectic mites in the hair follicles. Again, I could feel them at night when they come out to mate. Of course you could. Quote: I do not need double blind scientific tests. Of course you don't

18th June 2018, 02:43 AM	#130
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,987	This thread reminds me of Better Call Saul. Anyone know what I'm talking about? The condition, even if of psychosomatic origin, seems very debilitating, even dangerous. I won't spoil anything for those who haven't seen the show or aren't up to date with it, but it can lead to tragic results in extreme cases. If someone feels that it is real for them, no amount of logic or argument will convince them otherwise.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

18th June 2018, 09:21 AM	#131
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Someone may have pointed this out already but dust mites also don't bite people. True. The allergy is actually to their faeces, AIUI.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

18th June 2018, 10:46 PM	#132
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by macdoc It's not "think" ....there are studies in high natural background radiation areas that support it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477686/ and here's a mind bender from that And they have ruled out any other factors from the Chernobyl cleanup guys? Like choosing healthy individuals to start with. The wimps got sick before they were even sent? It is one thing when an industry tells people there is no danger using biased studies. It is another kettle of fish when an industry promotes the dangers as benefits.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

18th June 2018, 11:04 PM	#133
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by macdoc It's not "think" ....there are studies in high natural background radiation areas that support it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477686/ and here's a mind bender from that I just read through the ncbi article. I am stunned and gobsmacked. Do you believe this concept? If I sold you some radium and told you to keep it in your pants pocket to ward off prostate cancer, would you buy it? (The radium and the concept? ) What is the mechanism? They offer nothing at all in this regard. Just data that has been "normalised". Have people been "degraded" intellectually so that they are "happy zombies" who have no stress and therefore are healthier? BTW. Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

18th June 2018, 11:07 PM	#134
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop You do know these mites don't fly through the air towards you when you walk in to a room? Ever heard of Brownian motion? Do you think that dust mites in the air remain stationary? And when one walks on a carpet and acquires an electrostatic charge, do you think it might attract some mites? If the air above a dusty carpet is filled with mites and whose density falls off with height, then walking into such a room would be like wading into a sea filled with stinging little creatures. I can feel the density. High just above my ankle and low just below my knees.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.* Last edited by PartSkeptic; 18th June 2018 at 11:09 PM.

18th June 2018, 11:10 PM	#135
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Of course you could. Of course you don't Glad you finally agree with me. Oh wait, maybe you are being sarcastic!
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

18th June 2018, 11:22 PM	#136
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 60,364	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Do you think that dust mites in the air remain stationary? Do you think that dust mites can fly?

18th June 2018, 11:40 PM	#137
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by dann Court case in Denmark right now. Usædvanlig retssag: Jettes el-allergi kostede hende jobbet (Ekstra Bladet, May 31, 2018) "Unusual court case: Jette lost her job due to electro allergy." My translation: I wrote this article in 2011: E-sans for viderekomne – en populær vrangforestilling (Dansk Skeptica, Apr. 7, 2011) "Advanced 'e sense' - a popular delusion" The problem with low grade long-term health risks is that any effects are going to be subtle. One cannot measure the status of an immune system or degradation of thought processes. One can only measure the secondary effects such as cancers and autism, and then do statistical studies with a control group. In the case of cell phone towers, it is becoming almost impossible to find a control group. If the health of the general population declines, then it can be attributed to a range of environmental toxins and pollutants. It could also be coincidence that the symptoms appear at the same time as the cell tower. I also accept that fear of cell radiation could be a powerful "sickening" agent. Can I argue that my "fear" of cell radiation is "real" and therefore the tower is a health hazard?
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

18th June 2018, 11:42 PM	#138
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Do you think that dust mites can fly? There are thousands of dust mites per square inch. Do you think that they crawl everywhere? Are they not the same size and weight as pollen?
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

18th June 2018, 11:52 PM	#139
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	Originally Posted by Pixel42 True. The allergy is actually to their faeces, AIUI. I do not disagree with the fact that they do not "bite". I am describing the feeling coming from one. It is half bite, half itch. My skin is so sensitive that I could feel the eye doctor drop a contact lens onto my jeans, and tell him where it was. I never had the mite sensitivity before a very dusty house in Brooklyn NY that had squirrels living in the walls and ceiling spaces. I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

19th June 2018, 12:12 AM	#140
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,758	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate. Are you sure that you read it?
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,758	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

19th June 2018, 12:46 AM	#141
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal. I'm the one that goes wherever the objective evidence points, remember? You're the one that scoffs at anything that appears to contradict what instinct tells them regardless of the objective evidence.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

19th June 2018, 03:57 AM	#142
macdoc Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Planet earth on slow boil Posts: 7,940	Quote: ust read through the ncbi article. I am stunned and gobsmacked. Do you believe this concept? If I sold you some radium and told you to keep it in your pants pocket to ward off prostate cancer, would you buy it? (The radium and the concept? ) What is the mechanism? They offer nothing at all in this regard. Just data that has been "normalised". Have people been "degraded" intellectually so that they are "happy zombies" who have no stress and therefore are healthier? BTW. Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate. you haven't got a clue....am I afraid of radiation? ....no ....we evolved in it, billions of particles sleet through us every moment. I have no need to 'beleive" ...I just follow the evidence. .....that you are gobsmacked is no surprise ....you seem to have a very faint grasp of the physical reality you live in . ....maybe some therapy is useful for your irrational fears. Exposure to radium is not a good idea...perhaps you should do some reading This is a science forum .....a certain level of knowledge is expected...
	__________________ _{Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...g/human-caused}_{• http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...e-responsible/} _{Travelphotos >https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries} Last edited by macdoc; 19th June 2018 at 04:05 AM.

19th June 2018, 08:13 AM	#143
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal. Well, science goes with the evidence, wherever it leads. It doesn't decide on the conclusion it wants then cherry pick evidence or make it up to get there.

19th June 2018, 08:46 AM	#144
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 31,722	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal. They laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Which are you? Come up with a theory as robust as the Big Bang Theory, and then we'll talk about the scoffing. Right now, you don't even have enough material for a pilot.

19th June 2018, 06:15 PM	#145
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 60,364	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic There are thousands of dust mites per square inch. Do you think that they crawl everywhere? Are they not the same size and weight as pollen? Dust mites are members of the arachnid family. They have eight legs, and no wings. No, they can't fly.

19th June 2018, 06:57 PM	#146
RecoveringYuppy Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,333	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Dust mites are members of the arachnid family. They have eight legs, and no wings. No, they can't fly. I think he compared them to pollen because he is implying they float around like pollen. And, in fact, he's correct about that, they can. But that doesn't really explain how they float around like pollen towards him when he enters a room.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

19th June 2018, 07:34 PM	#147
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 60,364	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy I think he compared them to pollen because he is implying they float around like pollen. And, in fact, he's correct about that, they can. But that doesn't really explain how they float around like pollen towards him when he enters a room. I had to look this up. Dust mites, depending on the species, are between 0.2mm and 0.3mm in size. The largest windborne pollen grains are no larger than 0.1mm and most are considerably smaller, down to the smallest at 0.006mm. So he's not even really correct that they're comparable in size. Though it is true that dust mites can drift on the wind, it's certainly not their standard method of getting around.

19th June 2018, 07:40 PM	#148
RecoveringYuppy Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,333	Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

19th June 2018, 08:16 PM	#149
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,767	I'm waiting for Morgellons to be mentioned....
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,767	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

19th June 2018, 08:17 PM	#150
RecoveringYuppy Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,333	Morgellons. You're welcome. ETA: Damn. Ninja'd by Kid Eager.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 19th June 2018 at 08:18 PM.

19th June 2018, 08:42 PM	#151
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 60,364	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites. Especially since the mites themselves have a considerable motivation to stay on the surface that they're walking on. There's no food for them up in the air. So. Add "dust mite biology" to the list of things that PartSkeptic doesn't know about, and put it in the subcategory of things that can be discovered by spending five minutes on wikipedia.

20th June 2018, 02:44 AM	#152
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,100	So I have had a "gut feel" for a while that phone radiation is not good for a person. My gut feels are usually correct. As a result, I avoid using a device next to my head, and use a landline at every opportunity. Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS? 1. Fertility is decreasing. 2. Autism is increasing 3. ADHD is increasing 4. Alzheimers is increasing All of these can be made worse by chemical or radiation on the the VGCC in the membrane of cells. This is now the proposed mechanism for the health risks of cell phone radiation. Quote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltag...alcium_channel Voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs), also known as voltage-dependent calcium channels (VDCCs), are a group of voltage-gated ion channels found in the membrane of excitable cells (e.g., muscle, glial cells, neurons, etc.) with a permeability to the calcium ion Ca2+. These channels are slightly permeable to sodium ions, so they are also called Ca2+-Na+ channels, but their permeability to calcium is about 1000-fold greater than to sodium under normal physiological conditions. At physiologic or resting membrane potential, VGCCs are normally closed. They are activated (i.e., opened) at depolarized membrane potentials and this is the source of the "voltage-gated" epithet. The concentration of calcium (Ca2+ ions) is normally several thousand times higher outside the cell than inside. Activation of particular VGCCs allows Ca2+ to rush into the cell, which, depending on the cell type, results in activation of calcium-sensitive potassium channels, muscular contraction, excitation of neurons, up-regulation of gene expression, or release of hormones or neurotransmitters. The industry accepts the VGCC effect but disputes the magnitude. Dr Pall explains why the industry is wrong. Quote: http://scientists4wiredtech.com/2017...opposes-sb649/ there exists exquisite sensitivity to electromagnetic fields (EMFs) in the voltage sensor in each cell, such that the force impacting our cells at the voltage sensor has massive impact on the biology in the cells of our bodies. EMFs act by activating channels in the membrane that surrounds each of our cells, called voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs). The EMFs put forces on the voltage sensor that controls the VGCCs of about 7.2 million times greater than the forces on other charged groups in our cells.This is why weak EMFs have such large biological effects on the cells of our bodies! EMFs works this way not only on human and diverse animal cells but also in plant cells so that this is a universal or near universal mechanism of action. To make matters worse, multiple frequencies which are found next to towers make the situation far worse, as does pulsation of the frequencies. There are about 1,600 to 2,000 studies which suggest (strongly suggest) that radiation is a factor. Of course, so are chemical toxins, and the cell phone industry jumps on that fact. The effect of EMF take decades to show. If our germ line is also being degraded then the human race may end up a bunch of morons. More than we already have. Perhaps any planet that got cell phone technology extincted itself through decreasing fertility and those born had autism and premature Alzheimers. Fermi may have been more correct than he knew. Not war, just mass sterilization.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

20th June 2018, 03:43 AM	#153
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS? No. Quote: Perhaps any planet that got cell phone technology extincted itself through decreasing fertility and those born had autism and premature Alzheimers. Fermi may have been more correct than he knew. Not war, just mass sterilization. No planet that got cell-phone technology extincted itself. It was destroyed by cosmic bureaucrats doing routine maintenance.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

20th June 2018, 03:50 AM	#154
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites. For the most part, dust-mite allergy is probably not caused by living dust mites but by their dead body parts and waste: Quote: What Is a Dust Mite Allergy? An allergen is a substance that causes an allergic reaction. Both the body parts and the waste of dust mites are allergens for many people. Most dust mites die in low humidity levels or extreme temperatures. But they leave their dead bodies and waste behind. These can continue to cause allergic reactions. In a warm, humid house, dust mites can survive all year. Dust Mite Allergy (AAFA)
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,493	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

20th June 2018, 04:03 AM	#155
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic My gut feels are usually correct. Says the man whose gut feeling that his Tarot card readings are more accurate than would be expected by chance was proved wrong right here on this board. Quote: Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS? 1. Fertility is decreasing. 2. Autism is increasing 3. ADHD is increasing 4. Alzheimers is increasing Are you familiar with the saying "correlation does not equal causation"? Have you researched any of these to find out if there is even any actual correlation, i.e. any rise in them did actually begin at the same time as cell phone usage, and the rate of increase matches? Have you researched other factors where there might plausibly be a link (e.g. increased reporting for 2 and 3, increasing life expectancy for 4 etc) to see if any of them correlate even better than increasing cell phone usage? Scientists spend their whole careers collecting data and analysing it statistically to find just such correlations, and trying to establish which are also causally linked. A gullible woo slinger who thinks his gut feeling will provide more reliable answers to such questions than decades of painstaking research is simply laughable.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

20th June 2018, 05:39 AM	#156
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3,762	Originally Posted by Pixel42 Says the man whose gut feeling that his Tarot card readings are more accurate than would be expected by chance was proved wrong right here on this board. Are you familiar with the saying "correlation does not equal causation"? Have you researched any of these to find out if there is even any actual correlation, i.e. any rise in them did actually begin at the same time as cell phone usage, and the rate of increase matches? Have you researched other factors where there might plausibly be a link (e.g. increased reporting for 2 and 3, increasing life expectancy for 4 etc) to see if any of them correlate even better than increasing cell phone usage? Scientists spend their whole careers collecting data and analysing it statistically to find just such correlations, and trying to establish which are also causally linked. A gullible woo slinger who thinks his gut feeling will provide more reliable answers to such questions than decades of painstaking research is simply laughable. His "fertility is decreasing" thing is especially laughable- there, he doesn't even have the correlation from which to infer causation. Here's some data I found which shows (first chart) that the biggest drop worldwide in fertility rates was between around 1965 to the mid 1990's- hardly attributable to cell phone usage, I think. You can add any given country to that chart, and I did so for the US and the UK (and Europe as a whole), since it would seem the more developed the country, the more prevalent cell phone usage would be; I found the same general pattern, that the most dramatic drop in fertility rates preceded what I would consider the cell-phone era. In fact, reading further in that article, it would seem that the most reasonable conclusion is the most obvious one- that a decrease in fertility rates isn't so much an effect as it was a decision. Women don't have the same number of children as they used to because they don't have to. I'm sure PS would grumble about that (personally, I applaud it), but it's not cell phones he should be grumbling about. If you've just got to be a Luddite, at least be an honest one.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

20th June 2018, 07:28 AM	#157
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 22,920	Originally Posted by dann No. No planet that got cell-phone technology extincted itself. It was destroyed by cosmic bureaucrats doing routine maintenance. Or by getting rid of all of its telephone sanitizers.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."