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#121 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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A very similar way of treating peanut allergy is being developed: Successful clinical trial for peanut allergy treatment spreads hope (Mar. 7. 2018). I'm happy that my own peanut allergy isn't as extreme as some cases are: I've never had to worry about the "May contain traces of ..." warnings! ![]() |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#122 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,051
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#123 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,051
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#124 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,767
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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#125 | |||
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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It must be due to the excessive speed when they move about - and probably mate, as well:
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I can recommend the Danish novel by Sven Holm, Syg og munter (Sick and Happy), about a guy who suffers from acarophobia, which, by the way, is a condition for which there is a treatment:
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ETA: Syg og munter, the movie:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#126 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,727
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As usual you are assuming that your instinct/common sense/subjective experiences are giving you the right answer, without bothering to check or even seeing any need to check. History suggests that making such an assumption is inadvisable, to put it mildly, as every scientist who ever contributed to humanity's precious store of verified knowledge and understanding would tell you if you curtailed your arrogance long enough to listen.
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#127 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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Court case in Denmark right now. Usædvanlig retssag: Jettes el-allergi kostede hende jobbet (Ekstra Bladet, May 31, 2018) "Unusual court case: Jette lost her job due to electro allergy."
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My translation:
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I wrote this article in 2011: E-sans for viderekomne – en populær vrangforestilling (Dansk Skeptica, Apr. 7, 2011) "Advanced 'e sense' - a popular delusion" |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#128 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,333
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#129 | |||
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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And another one ...
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#130 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,987
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This thread reminds me of Better Call Saul. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
The condition, even if of psychosomatic origin, seems very debilitating, even dangerous. I won't spoil anything for those who haven't seen the show or aren't up to date with it, but it can lead to tragic results in extreme cases. If someone feels that it is real for them, no amount of logic or argument will convince them otherwise. |
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#131 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,727
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#132 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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And they have ruled out any other factors from the Chernobyl cleanup guys? Like choosing healthy individuals to start with. The wimps got sick before they were even sent? It is one thing when an industry tells people there is no danger using biased studies. It is another kettle of fish when an industry promotes the dangers as benefits. ![]() |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#133 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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I just read through the ncbi article. I am stunned and gobsmacked. Do you believe this concept? If I sold you some radium and told you to keep it in your pants pocket to ward off prostate cancer, would you buy it? (The radium and the concept? ![]() What is the mechanism? They offer nothing at all in this regard. Just data that has been "normalised". Have people been "degraded" intellectually so that they are "happy zombies" who have no stress and therefore are healthier? BTW. Thank you for the article. I can use it in my fight against the tower. This at least is intelligent debate. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#134 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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Ever heard of Brownian motion? Do you think that dust mites in the air remain stationary? And when one walks on a carpet and acquires an electrostatic charge, do you think it might attract some mites? If the air above a dusty carpet is filled with mites and whose density falls off with height, then walking into such a room would be like wading into a sea filled with stinging little creatures. I can feel the density. High just above my ankle and low just below my knees. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#135 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#136 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,364
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Do you think that dust mites can fly?
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#137 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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The problem with low grade long-term health risks is that any effects are going to be subtle. One cannot measure the status of an immune system or degradation of thought processes. One can only measure the secondary effects such as cancers and autism, and then do statistical studies with a control group. In the case of cell phone towers, it is becoming almost impossible to find a control group. If the health of the general population declines, then it can be attributed to a range of environmental toxins and pollutants. It could also be coincidence that the symptoms appear at the same time as the cell tower. I also accept that fear of cell radiation could be a powerful "sickening" agent. Can I argue that my "fear" of cell radiation is "real" and therefore the tower is a health hazard? |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#138 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#139 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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I do not disagree with the fact that they do not "bite". I am describing the feeling coming from one. It is half bite, half itch. My skin is so sensitive that I could feel the eye doctor drop a contact lens onto my jeans, and tell him where it was. I never had the mite sensitivity before a very dusty house in Brooklyn NY that had squirrels living in the walls and ceiling spaces. I bet you that if you were living when the Big Bang was postulated you would have scoffed. After all, how could a gigantic universe come from a single point? And everyone "knew" that the universe was eternal. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#140 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,758
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#141 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,727
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#142 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 7,940
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I have no need to 'beleive" ...I just follow the evidence. .....that you are gobsmacked is no surprise ....you seem to have a very faint grasp of the physical reality you live in . ....maybe some therapy is useful for your irrational fears. Exposure to radium is not a good idea...perhaps you should do some reading ![]() This is a science forum .....a certain level of knowledge is expected... |
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Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...g/human-caused • http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...e-responsible/ ![]() ![]() |
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#143 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,051
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#144 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,722
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#145 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,364
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#146 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,333
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#147 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,364
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I had to look this up. Dust mites, depending on the species, are between 0.2mm and 0.3mm in size. The largest windborne pollen grains are no larger than 0.1mm and most are considerably smaller, down to the smallest at 0.006mm. So he's not even really correct that they're comparable in size.
Though it is true that dust mites can drift on the wind, it's certainly not their standard method of getting around. |
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#148 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,333
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Yep, all true. I don't know for sure, but I sincerely doubt that walking across a carpet stirs up significant clouds of dust mites.
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#149 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,767
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I'm waiting for Morgellons to be mentioned....
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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#150 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,333
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Morgellons. You're welcome.
ETA: Damn. Ninja'd by Kid Eager. |
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#151 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,364
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Especially since the mites themselves have a considerable motivation to stay on the surface that they're walking on. There's no food for them up in the air.
So. Add "dust mite biology" to the list of things that PartSkeptic doesn't know about, and put it in the subcategory of things that can be discovered by spending five minutes on wikipedia. |
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#152 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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So I have had a "gut feel" for a while that phone radiation is not good for a person. My gut feels are usually correct. As a result, I avoid using a device next to my head, and use a landline at every opportunity.
Am I right about these statements? Are they FACTS? 1. Fertility is decreasing. 2. Autism is increasing 3. ADHD is increasing 4. Alzheimers is increasing All of these can be made worse by chemical or radiation on the the VGCC in the membrane of cells. This is now the proposed mechanism for the health risks of cell phone radiation.
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The industry accepts the VGCC effect but disputes the magnitude. Dr Pall explains why the industry is wrong.
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To make matters worse, multiple frequencies which are found next to towers make the situation far worse, as does pulsation of the frequencies. There are about 1,600 to 2,000 studies which suggest (strongly suggest) that radiation is a factor. Of course, so are chemical toxins, and the cell phone industry jumps on that fact. The effect of EMF take decades to show. If our germ line is also being degraded then the human race may end up a bunch of morons. More than we already have. Perhaps any planet that got cell phone technology extincted itself through decreasing fertility and those born had autism and premature Alzheimers. Fermi may have been more correct than he knew. Not war, just mass sterilization. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#153 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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No.
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No planet that got cell-phone technology extincted itself. It was destroyed by cosmic bureaucrats doing routine maintenance. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#154 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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__________________
/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#155 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,727
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Says the man whose gut feeling that his Tarot card readings are more accurate than would be expected by chance was proved wrong right here on this board.
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Have you researched any of these to find out if there is even any actual correlation, i.e. any rise in them did actually begin at the same time as cell phone usage, and the rate of increase matches? Have you researched other factors where there might plausibly be a link (e.g. increased reporting for 2 and 3, increasing life expectancy for 4 etc) to see if any of them correlate even better than increasing cell phone usage? Scientists spend their whole careers collecting data and analysing it statistically to find just such correlations, and trying to establish which are also causally linked. A gullible woo slinger who thinks his gut feeling will provide more reliable answers to such questions than decades of painstaking research is simply laughable. |
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#156 |
Mistral, mistral wind...
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,762
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His "fertility is decreasing" thing is especially laughable- there, he doesn't even have the correlation from which to infer causation. Here's some data I found which shows (first chart) that the biggest drop worldwide in fertility rates was between around 1965 to the mid 1990's- hardly attributable to cell phone usage, I think. You can add any given country to that chart, and I did so for the US and the UK (and Europe as a whole), since it would seem the more developed the country, the more prevalent cell phone usage would be; I found the same general pattern, that the most dramatic drop in fertility rates preceded what I would consider the cell-phone era.
In fact, reading further in that article, it would seem that the most reasonable conclusion is the most obvious one- that a decrease in fertility rates isn't so much an effect as it was a decision. Women don't have the same number of children as they used to because they don't have to. I'm sure PS would grumble about that (personally, I applaud it), but it's not cell phones he should be grumbling about. If you've just got to be a Luddite, at least be an honest one. |
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I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King |
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#157 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,920
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." |
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#158 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,388
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#159 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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Some browsing.
1. Sperm counts down 60% in less than 40 years (in the West). 2. Autism rising a lot. Some due to diagnostics 3. ADHD. Some rise. Again diagnostic issues 4. Alzheimer's. Hard to tell. Much data is old, very old. And the ELEPHANT in the room? The effects at low levels. Two references. http://ec.europa.eu/health/scientifi...docs/emf_6.pdf and http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/2223/1/2223.pdf |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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#160 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,100
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Check this chart showing "safe" levels and studies showing "effects".
http://www.bioinitiative.org/rf-color-charts/ 0.01 microwatt per square cm tower exposure. Chronic exposure to base station RF (whole-body) in humans showed increased stress hormones; dopamine levels substantially decreased; higher levels of adrenaline and nor-adrenaline; dose-response seen; produced chronic physiological stress in cells even after 1.5 years. 2012 study. 600 microwatt per square cm is the uncontrolled "safe" level. |
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**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** |
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