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Old 23rd June 2018, 11:46 AM   #201
theprestige
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
So what am I feeling?
A psychosomatic effect, which you incorrectly attribute to mites.

Because mites are real and ubiquitous, you pretend the attribution is a priori legitimate.

Quote:
Why can I "cure" it.
Placebo effect.

Quote:
And explain why it is physically impossible?
The lower limit of the field effects that can be distinguished by the human sensory apparatus is much higher than the strength of the field effects generated by mites.

Quote:
I think you are another who has a cast-in-stone belief system.
Perhaps. But I am willing to consider new evidence that supports your claims.

But as it stands, your claims are better explained by by psychosomatic and placebo effects. We have plenty of evidence for those. We have no evidence for your idea. And we have plenty of evidence that your idea isn't even possible anyway.
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Old 24th June 2018, 08:59 AM   #202
PartSkeptic
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A psychosomatic effect, which you incorrectly attribute to mites.

Because mites are real and ubiquitous, you pretend the attribution is a priori legitimate.


Placebo effect.


The lower limit of the field effects that can be distinguished by the human sensory apparatus is much higher than the strength of the field effects generated by mites.


Perhaps. But I am willing to consider new evidence that supports your claims.

But as it stands, your claims are better explained by by psychosomatic and placebo effects. We have plenty of evidence for those. We have no evidence for your idea. And we have plenty of evidence that your idea isn't even possible anyway.

I started feeling these small "bites" and even when I looked with a magnifying glass I could not see what was causing them.

Your "psychosomatic and placebo effects". What was the "trigger" or causation to these appearing when I never had them before? You give a person a pill and tell him it will make him better. What pill or equivalent did I get?

I think that this is the standard answer to things that medical science cannot explain. A female acquaintance who was doctor was suffering a lot of vague problems including vague pain and lack of energy. Eventually the doctors began to tell her it was in her head. There was no physical cause. Yet ten years later, they find that a vein is being cut off by another vein. Stents fixed the problem.

But you know for sure that I am not one of "those" cases.
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:06 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
By using the scientific method to compare different populations you can get a pretty good idea how much each contributes to the total incidence of damaged knee joints, even if you can't determine the exact contribution of each for any particular individual.

Okay. Get specific. I am listening. How do you differentiate? I would love to know so I can go and get tested and then sue the company selling the stuff.

Scientific guessing? Estimates based on some expert's "feeling"?

When I have such excellent genes, why would I have joint problems? My left knee replacement - what tests could be done to decide what the cause was. I never had a knee injury in my life. Why both knees?

Why the muscle pain? Why the nervous system damage causing me to stop breathing at night (not obstructive apnea)?
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:28 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Okay. Get specific. I am listening. I would love to know so I can go and get tested and then sue the company selling the stuff.
Clearly you aren't listening, because I already explained that you can only establish the contribution each cause makes to the total incidence.

Take lung cancer. Studies show that people who smoke are many times more likely to get it than people who don't, by a factor of 9 or so IIRC. But there are also natural causes of lung cancer, e.g. radon gas, which account for the cases in non-smokers but could also account for some of cases in smokers. There are also genetic factors which increase some smokers chances of getting it and decrease others, etc etc.

So say 100 smokers get lung cancer. We can estimate, based on the scientific studies that have been done, that say around ninety would not have developed it if they hadn't smoked, and around ten would still have developed it. But which are which? Which get to sue the tobacco companies? There is no way to tell.
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Old 24th June 2018, 02:49 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I started feeling these small "bites" and even when I looked with a magnifying glass I could not see what was causing them.

Back in the 80s, at new age shops that sold crystals, customers would be invited to hold an elongated quartz crystal in their hand and aim the tip of it at the palm of their other hand from about a centimeter away. (I'm using the past tense but for all I know, they still do this, I just haven't been to such a shop in a long time.) The customers were told they could then feel the "energy" emanating from the crystal.

Most of them could, indeed, feel the crystal energy. Even I could.

Could they still feel the energy if their eyes were closed? Sure, no problem.

Could they still feel the crystal energy in their palm if someone else held the crystal close to it instead of using their other hand? Sure, no problem.

But could they tell when the crystal was close to their palm, and when it wasn't, if someone else held the crystal AND their own eyes were closed? Not to save their lives.

There are many imaginable explanations for this. For instance, perhaps the crystal gets angry and shuts off its energy flow when it thinks it's being disrespected by having its energy tested. But the most likely explanation is that there is no palpable energy flow from the crystal, and touch sensations can be influenced by expectations to the point of sensing stimuli that are not actually happening.
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Old 24th June 2018, 03:46 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I started feeling these small "bites" and even when I looked with a magnifying glass I could not see what was causing them <SNIP>

.
Leaving out psychosomatic considerations, I looked back at your symptoms and treatment and two things come to mind:
  • the feeling of things attacking your legs when you walk into a room is typical of fleas and sand flies, but you have to be really lucky to see them, as the feeling of the bite isn't coincident with them landing and biting. Biting is particularly aggressive when re-entering a room where there has been no other food source for a while. In bed, consider also bed bugs - little buggers move really quickly.
  • second point: Boric acid is also a treatment for fungal infections (tinea, tinea versicolor, ringworm, cutaneous candidiasis), which also matches the symptoms you have reported, with repeated use of boric acid providing relief on account of killing the fungus.
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Old 24th June 2018, 04:20 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
When I have such excellent genes, why would I have joint problems?
Cumulative damage over a lifetime of use.

Excellent genes???!!!???
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Old 24th June 2018, 05:20 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Cumulative damage over a lifetime of use.

Excellent genes???!!!???
Levi 501
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:56 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Cumulative damage over a lifetime of use.

Excellent genes???!!!???
I'm youngest of six with rubbish genes (strokes, heart problems). We have varying amounts of joint problems, from virtually none (the oldest, she's 80) to severe (70). The more years each sibling spent overweight and sedentary the more, and the earlier, they developed joint problems. Strange that.
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Old 30th June 2018, 10:11 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Cumulative damage over a lifetime of use.

Excellent genes???!!!???

The pharmaceutical companies love people like you.

You blame the damage they are possibly causing to "natural causes".

And once more I ask - how can one tell?

When the statisticians tell us that people are not only living shorter lives but are full of medical problems and diseases, will they say it is just a natural progression of bad genes and toxins in the planet?
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Old 30th June 2018, 10:16 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Leaving out psychosomatic considerations, I looked back at your symptoms and treatment and two things come to mind:
  • the feeling of things attacking your legs when you walk into a room is typical of fleas and sand flies, but you have to be really lucky to see them, as the feeling of the bite isn't coincident with them landing and biting. Biting is particularly aggressive when re-entering a room where there has been no other food source for a while. In bed, consider also bed bugs - little buggers move really quickly.
  • second point: Boric acid is also a treatment for fungal infections (tinea, tinea versicolor, ringworm, cutaneous candidiasis), which also matches the symptoms you have reported, with repeated use of boric acid providing relief on account of killing the fungus.

You really don't know the difference between a bed bug and a dust mite, do you?

Nor do you know the difference between the symptoms of the various infections you describe. And you forget that I had the mite problem long before the fungal problem.

You are right that boric acid is quite amazing in the range of treatments it can be used for.
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Old 30th June 2018, 10:30 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I'm youngest of six with rubbish genes (strokes, heart problems). We have varying amounts of joint problems, from virtually none (the oldest, she's 80) to severe (70). The more years each sibling spent overweight and sedentary the more, and the earlier, they developed joint problems. Strange that.

And strange that my father lived to 95 and died from a refusal to eat. Even at that age, he had all his hair, did not use a walker, did not break any bones despite some serious falls, had smooth unwrinkled skin, and had reasonable eyesight and hearing. He refused to take medication his whole life.

My mother died at 89 because she also stopped eating - and was not on any medication even at her age. One hip replacement (perhaps prior ciprofloxacin use ???).

I would say that I think I can assume I inherited "good genes", especially since I was in fantastic shape before the medication and the fungus.

Despite my problems, my blood tests are always 100%. I only had high inflammation markers before taking the antifungals. Despite 7 years on antifungals my kidney and liver are still fine.

When I had my eye operation and they gave me a general anesthetic the others all asked for that as well. The anesthetist told them that when they had a health questionnaire as fantastic as mine then they would qualify. "NO", right down the row of health issues.
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Old 30th June 2018, 10:43 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Clearly you aren't listening, because I already explained that you can only establish the contribution each cause makes to the total incidence.

Take lung cancer. Studies show that people who smoke are many times more likely to get it than people who don't, by a factor of 9 or so IIRC. But there are also natural causes of lung cancer, e.g. radon gas, which account for the cases in non-smokers but could also account for some of cases in smokers. There are also genetic factors which increase some smokers chances of getting it and decrease others, etc etc.

So say 100 smokers get lung cancer. We can estimate, based on the scientific studies that have been done, that say around ninety would not have developed it if they hadn't smoked, and around ten would still have developed it. But which are which? Which get to sue the tobacco companies? There is no way to tell.

Are we then agreed that if my immune system is borderline as far as keeping cancer at bay, then any radiation, especially if A) pulsed and B)non-stop has a high chance of pushing me over the edge?

And that if I die of cancer next to this mast it will be ascribed to "natural causes" because of the existing problems, and will not be added to the statistical column of "maybe the radiation was an added factor"?

I want to know if any of you would happily live next to a mast with 6 cell phone companies pumping out microwave radiation 24 hours a day every day? And I work from home.

They even lie about the exposure. They said it was a 30-meter mast so the radiation is high up. No. It is a 25-meter mast and the antenna are placed below the top and make their way down the mast.
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Old 1st July 2018, 07:15 AM   #214
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You are just ranting now.
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Old 1st July 2018, 08:25 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You are just ranting now.

Anything in the "ranting" you feel you can make an intelligent comment about?

Or am I just spouting rubbish?

Maybe they have turned on the cell tower and are busy frying my brain.

The movie "Merchants of Doubt" has just played on the TV. Corporate interests getting one group of scientists to challenge another group of scientists over climate change. They give examples of how this tactic is used to promote profit-making ventures at the expense of the population. ICNIRP may just be one.
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Old 1st July 2018, 09:00 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Are we then agreed that if my immune system is borderline as far as keeping cancer at bay, then any radiation, especially if A) pulsed and B)non-stop has a high chance of pushing me over the edge?
Not any radiation, no. Only radiation that damages tissue in a way that increases the chances that said tissue will become cancerous. Currently there is no good reason to think the radiation you describe qualifies.

Quote:
And that if I die of cancer next to this mast it will be ascribed to "natural causes" because of the existing problems, and will not be added to the statistical column of "maybe the radiation was an added factor"?
Data on the incidence of cancer near such masts is exactly the sort of data that is being collected and compared with data on the incidence of cancer away from masts, once all other factors (e.g. genetic) have been accounted for. So your single datum would be used in that comparison.

Quote:
I want to know if any of you would happily live next to a mast with 6 cell phone companies pumping out microwave radiation 24 hours a day every day? And I work from home.
As I already said, the only precaution I feel the data currently justifies is avoiding holding a cell phone next to my head for hours every day. The only problem I would have with living where you describe would be the degradation of the view. Though it might be worth it if house prices were depressed by the mast sufficiently to make the property more affordable. But it would take a lot to make me move from my current home, which I have lived in for 30 years and absolutely love.

ETA: Put it this way: if they built a mast in the field opposite my bungalow I would be annoyed, but not as annoyed as I would be if they built houses or a shopping mall. I would not be particularly concerned about my health, certainly not enough to consider moving.
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Old 1st July 2018, 10:08 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Are we then agreed that if my immune system is borderline as far as keeping cancer at bay, then any radiation, especially if A) pulsed and B)non-stop has a high chance of pushing me over the edge?

And that if I die of cancer next to this mast it will be ascribed to "natural causes" because of the existing problems, and will not be added to the statistical column of "maybe the radiation was an added factor"?

I want to know if any of you would happily live next to a mast with 6 cell phone companies pumping out microwave radiation 24 hours a day every day? And I work from home.

They even lie about the exposure. They said it was a 30-meter mast so the radiation is high up. No. It is a 25-meter mast and the antenna are placed below the top and make their way down the mast.

PS, you're back to posting anecdotes, "what-ifs?", suppositions and conspiracy theories. You earlier tried to shift the burden of proof by posting a 300-page collection of scientific articles and challenging us to refute them. What I read in the articles that seemed pertinent was that evidence for the various hypotheses was lacking or inconclusive. Would you care to make a case for your ideas using the article you think is best?
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Old 1st July 2018, 10:31 AM   #218
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My mental model for why radio waves can't damage biological tissue sufficiently to cause mutations is that it's like trying to chip a granite block by hitting it with a feather. No matter how many people crowd around the block and hit it in different spots with feathers, or hit it in bursts rather than continuously, they just aren't going to knock a chip off the (old ) block.

This idea of bursts being somehow more dangerous than continuous emissions reminds me of the young charlatan at Best Buy who tried to justify the $35 cost for a 1 meter HDMI cable by saying "because it's digital".
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Old 2nd July 2018, 10:56 AM   #219
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I don't think you'd even feel it if a dust mite bit you, which is almost comically unlikely. Even scabies mites which live directly on/in skin are only usually felt when they burrow into the skin, causing inflammation.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 11:04 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
My mental model for why radio waves can't damage biological tissue sufficiently to cause mutations is that it's like trying to chip a granite block by hitting it with a feather. No matter how many people crowd around the block and hit it in different spots with feathers, or hit it in bursts rather than continuously, they just aren't going to knock a chip off the (old ) block.

This idea of bursts being somehow more dangerous than continuous emissions reminds me of the young charlatan at Best Buy who tried to justify the $35 cost for a 1 meter HDMI cable by saying "because it's digital".

One can wear down a granite block with a continuous water stream, especially if the water contains sand particles and/or chemicals.

The reason for the bursts being more dangerous is actually reasonably logical. The bursts can be "heard" by people. Yes, it is a proven accepted fact. They even used small microphones to pick up the sound. The bursts cause localized heating of tissue which expands and then contracts.

When the bursts are in the 8-13 Hz alpha frequency, the localized bursts of heating are then picked by the brain. This disturbance can cause depression and sleep problems.

The intensity is well below the heating threshold that currently determines a "safe" level.

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_water_torture
Having observed how drops of water falling one by one on a stone gradually created a hollow, he applied the method to the human body...

The term "Spanish water torture" ... cold or warm water would then be dripped slowly onto a small area of their body—usually the forehead. The forehead was found to be the most suitable point for this form of torture because of its sensitivity, and because of its ominous proximity to the brain and facial features.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 11:25 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
One can wear down a granite block with a continuous water stream, especially if the water contains sand particles and/or chemicals.
Because a granite block doesn't repair itself.

As long as you keep eating food, breathing air, and circulating blood, you will continually renew your body against low rates of wear and tear. Even wear and tear from continuous sources of ionizing radiation gets perpetually erased by healthy bodies, as long as the exposure is low enough.

That's why the yearly dose of radiation from the potassium in your body doesn't do cumulative harm to you. That's why US radiation workers can have a maximum yearly dose of two or three orders of magnitudes greater than the dose from bodily potassium, because even that amount of radiation effect is erased by healthy bodies more quickly than it accumulates.

https://xkcd.com/radiation/

Look at it this way: You can wear down a granite block with even just a trickle of water and sand, but you can't flood or dam a river with a trickle of water and sand - the river just washes the trickle away into the sea.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 11:25 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I don't think you'd even feel it if a dust mite bit you, which is almost comically unlikely. Even scabies mites which live directly on/in skin are only usually felt when they burrow into the skin, causing inflammation.

I said I do not know what causes the "bite" sensation. The fact is that I get them. And I am well aware that I am only feeling a small portion of the many mites that might be on my skin. If I feel one of two "bites" then it is probably a bunch of them. If I feel many bites, like one every inch or so, on my legs, it is likely that there are very many of them.

If I treat a room and bedding with boric acid powder and then clean the room of the powder, there are no "bites" for a few days. They gradually start coming back. My current home is well treated. I only have to use the powder every six months or so.

Is the "bite" sensation a tiny allergic reaction on some areas of my skin? I do not know. I know what I feel, and I know what stops it. I think they are dust mites. No one has a better explanation.

As for the Demodex skin mites, it has been shown that 100 percent of adults have them in their facial hair follicles. If I treat myself with boric powder the "bite/itch" sensation goes away. Interestingly enough, if I do not put the power on my eyelashes, the itching there will not stop until I do. I have to treat for a few days to get them when they come out to mate.

To deny what I feel and how I treat it, it simply denialism on the part of people here. If people cannot find a science article that confirms what I say then the conclusion is that I am experiencing "false" symptoms.

It is the same with the low-level radiation. It was the same with various other toxins in history. It took years of data gathering to "prove" a connection. There are studies that are showing that low levels of microwave emf are problematic. These studies are rejected by industry-funded groups but are starting to alarm some groups of scientists. Pick your horse.

At first, I used to be a climate change denier thinking that it was just weather patterns until I studied the raw data. I used to be an emf-risk denier until recently when once more I started doing thinking research.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 11:36 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Because a granite block doesn't repair itself.

As long as you keep eating food, breathing air, and circulating blood, you will continually renew your body against low rates of wear and tear. Even wear and tear from continuous sources of ionizing radiation gets perpetually erased by healthy bodies, as long as the exposure is low enough.

That's why the yearly dose of radiation from the potassium in your body doesn't do cumulative harm to you. That's why US radiation workers can have a maximum yearly dose of two or three orders of magnitudes greater than the dose from bodily potassium, because even that amount of radiation effect is erased by healthy bodies more quickly than it accumulates.

Look at it this way: You can wear down a granite block with even just a trickle of water and sand, but you can't flood or dam a river with a trickle of water and sand - the river just washes the trickle away into the sea.

You are right - BUT!

I said earlier that a healthy adult body can kill ten million cancer cells a day. Typically the rate of cancer cell production is one million a day. When the immune system goes down and can only kill four million a day, and the rate of production goes up to five million a day due to outside stressors (ordinary toxins plus continuous cell phone radiation) then cancer takes over.

My immune system can only just keep cancer at bay. Say it kills three million a day and my cell cancer rate is two million a day. Do I need 24 hours a day of added generation of cancer cells? The extra one million a day is no problem for a healthy adult except maybe over the longer term, but it would be fatal for me.

I would rather move than say in six months that I have been diagnosed with cancer.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 11:52 AM   #224
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What is wrong with this study?

https://ehtrust.org/wp-content/uploa...ation-2018.pdf
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Old 2nd July 2018, 11:53 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
One can wear down a granite block with a continuous water stream, especially if the water contains sand particles and/or chemicals.

Yes, that was an unfortunate metaphor.

A better metaphor would be hitting a target 50 yards away if you can only throw a dart 25 yards. The energy of the photons you are talking about isn’t enough to cause the damage you are alleging.

Quote:
The reason for the bursts being more dangerous is actually reasonably logical. The bursts can be "heard" by people.

No, sound is not dangerous, as long as it isn’t loud enough to damage your ears.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 12:58 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The results are crap. Looking at the raw numbers, they're just too small to judge anything meaningful. And why did the low-dose (5 V/m) group have so many more Schwannomas than either the control group or the highest dose group? That's a major outlier, and suggests that none of the other numbers are reliable either.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 12:59 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
No, sound is not dangerous, as long as it isn’t loud enough to damage your ears.
That's not quite true. Noise can cause mental stress, and mental stress is bad for your health.

Similarly, if you're afraid of electromagnetic radiation, then that fear can do bad things to you even if the radiation does nothing itself.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 01:00 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018...-safety-scare/
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Old 2nd July 2018, 06:24 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post

Why don't you tell us what's right with it? Again with the burden-shifting.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 06:35 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You are right - BUT!

I said earlier that a healthy adult body can kill ten million cancer cells a day. Typically the rate of cancer cell production is one million a day. When the immune system goes down and can only kill four million a day, and the rate of production goes up to five million a day due to outside stressors (ordinary toxins plus continuous cell phone radiation) then cancer takes over.

My immune system can only just keep cancer at bay. Say it kills three million a day and my cell cancer rate is two million a day. Do I need 24 hours a day of added generation of cancer cells? The extra one million a day is no problem for a healthy adult except maybe over the longer term, but it would be fatal for me.

I would rather move than say in six months that I have been diagnosed with cancer.
If your body is failing so hard that cell phone emissions might make a difference, their effect will be drowned out by all of the much more powerful sources of unhealth you're exposed to. Skin cancer from sun exposure will kill you before cell towers even register.

It's like attributing an astrological effect to the gravitational influence of Jupiter. At this distance, the miniscule effect is drowned out by the gravity fields of the cars driving down your street.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 08:25 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
One can wear down a granite block with a continuous water stream, especially if the water contains sand particles and/or chemicals.

I don't think your analogy is apt. DNA molecules are broken/cleaved by sufficiently energetic photons. They aren't abraded.

Quote:
The reason for the bursts being more dangerous is actually reasonably logical. The bursts can be "heard" by people. Yes, it is a proven accepted fact. They even used small microphones to pick up the sound. The bursts cause localized heating of tissue which expands and then contracts.

When the bursts are in the 8-13 Hz alpha frequency, the localized bursts of heating are then picked by the brain. This disturbance can cause depression and sleep problems.

The intensity is well below the heating threshold that currently determines a "safe" level.

What are you basing this on? Can you give a cite?
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Old 3rd July 2018, 05:17 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post

Thanks for the link. I will read it and the study carefully to check them.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 05:37 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If your body is failing so hard that cell phone emissions might make a difference, their effect will be drowned out by all of the much more powerful sources of unhealth you're exposed to. Skin cancer from sun exposure will kill you before cell towers even register.

It's like attributing an astrological effect to the gravitational influence of Jupiter. At this distance, the miniscule effect is drowned out by the gravity fields of the cars driving down your street.

Mmmm, so now we are talking relative effects. That is progress.

I do not disagree with you. I am trying to get a handle on what the rate of increase is of cancer cells due to continuous (24 hour and not 9 hours on and 15 hours off) pulsed (due to the type of communication and the time division multiplexing) multi-frequency (due to the number of antennae with different service providers) all operating at the same time.

I am also trying to get a handle on the effect on the immune system due to electric field effects on cell membranes that would affect the hormone and immune signaling system. If this degrades one's immune system then the cross-over point of cancer cell kill rate and cancer cell production rate would occur at a lower value, but would still occur.

Where is a study showing whether people who are immune compromised are at greater risk for cancer due to cell tower proximity? Can it be done?

Who here is saying that the ONLY effect (which is supposed to be not harmful) is heating of the tissues, and that science is certain that there are no other effects that may cause disruption of cell function (such as hormone and thought processes), and thus lead to long-term illnesses in humans.

Rats have a small body mass for one and for another they do not live the 20-30 years that might be needed for cancer/autism/etc in a human. Do we study cell towers for 30 years and then make an assessment based on the findings?

What if they show that there is irreversible damage that accumulates, and a large proportion of people have all been affected? What if the rate of autism skyrockets?

We may have a case of: "The operation was a success - but the patient died." Damn the torpedoes - full steam ahead. Caution is for wimps - God will have to try again if we wipe ourselves out.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 05:58 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
I don't think your analogy is apt. DNA molecules are broken/cleaved by sufficiently energetic photons. They aren't abraded.

What are you basing this on? Can you give a cite?

Do you think that there are no DNA molecules that might be on the tipping point of damage and/or mutation and that the low-level microwave radiation might have a few "energetic" photons that might cause a small amount of damage?

If so, then once more we are talking relative effects, and the studies need to find if this can happen, and if so the proportion, if measurable.

Here is a reasonable article:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-frequencies/

This one deals with hearing pulsed microwave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17495664
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Old 3rd July 2018, 06:18 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Do you think that there are no DNA molecules that might be on the tipping point of damage and/or mutation...

No, because they’re all the same.

Quote:
...and that the low-level microwave radiation might have a few "energetic" photons that might cause a small amount of damage?

No, because to be more energetic they would need to have higher frequency. The transmitter would be producing visible radiation.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 06:29 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Finally! Hard, reproducible, unambiguous evidence of an effect of microwaves on people.

And what do you know, it turns out to be due to heating.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 05:48 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I am trying to get a handle on what the rate of increase is of cancer cells due to continuous (24 hour and not 9 hours on and 15 hours off) pulsed (due to the type of communication and the time division multiplexing) multi-frequency (due to the number of antennae with different service providers) all operating at the same time.
How do you think you might test that?
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Old 3rd July 2018, 07:30 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Mmmm, so now we are talking relative effects. That is progress.
No, we're talking about how even the physically possible mechsnisms won't have the effects you're looking for.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 10:52 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Not plausible risk of what some of our diplomats experienced in Cuba.

What did some of your diplomats experience in Cuba?
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Old 3rd July 2018, 11:03 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
What did some of your diplomats experience in Cuba?
Read the first post of this thread.
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