ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , border issues , donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 20th June 2018, 09:57 AM   #321
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
As soon as a consequence comes from his tweet let us know.
Twitter took down the threats and the White House has announced that FLOTUS Office has notified the Secret Service of the threats.

Really unclear what the children of the rank and file ICE employees are going to do as the result of the threats, however.
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:04 AM   #322
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,116
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Twitter took down the threats and the White House has announced that FLOTUS Office has notified the Secret Service of the threats.

Really unclear what the children of the rank and file ICE employees are going to do as the result of the threats, however.

They could go to summer camp.

I understand there are some real budget programs out there.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:07 AM   #323
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,116
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I was evaluating the bill on its own terms, without considering its author.

Usually, that is the right thing to do.

Does "usually" include in this evaluation a Trump administration, a GOP run Congress full of Trump sycophants, and a judiciary being stuffed with Trumpist, far right-wingnut ideologues?
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:08 AM   #324
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Moderately successful actor with 49k followers really isn't in the same ballpark influencewise as the leader of the free world
It's the same if your goal is to make a really, really stupid argument.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:09 AM   #325
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,116
Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
White guys being told they canít graze their cows for free on federal land that everyone else pays to use got a lot of sympathy for going 2a v government about things iirc.

FTFY.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:10 AM   #326
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,403
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Itíll be fun to watch what happens now.
Trump and his supporters admitting they got this one wrong? Yeah, I'll enjoy it.

I'm kidding, of course. They never do this.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:11 AM   #327
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 18,386
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Even if they didn't specifically vote for Trump, they didn't vote to STOP him either when they had the chance. And chances are even if they didn't vote for Trump, they probably voted for a republican congressman, who have done their best to confirm Trump's nominations (like Sessions) and support him politically. So no, they don't automatically get a free pass just because they didn't vote for Trump himself.

And where exactly were they during the previous decade when the republicans were doing their best to gerrymander and supress votes to disenfranchise minority voters? Where were they when the republican congress was talking about how their only job was to oppose Obama? Where were they when congress was having yet more pointless investigations into Bengazi? They (meaning Republican voters) helped create the environment that gave rise to Trump (and ultimately the child separation policy), even if they voted for Johnson or Stein in the last election.
I voted for Gary Johnson, in Illinois. There is no way the election would be close in Illinois. I detested and still detest Trump. I have been very vocal in opposing Trump, not only here but on Facebook. I consider myself a conservative - and so I could not in good conscience to who I thought would be best for America, vote for Hillary (especially in a state where I feel the Democratic Party is a machine geared to help itself and the state be damned), and it didn't matter for my vote anyway.

Please tell me again how I am responsible for Trump and his policies
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:15 AM   #328
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,910
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I voted for Gary Johnson, in Illinois. There is no way the election would be close in Illinois. I detested and still detest Trump. I have been very vocal in opposing Trump, not only here but on Facebook. I consider myself a conservative - and so I could not in good conscience to who I thought would be best for America, vote for Hillary (especially in a state where I feel the Democratic Party is a machine geared to help itself and the state be damned), and it didn't matter for my vote anyway.

Please tell me again how I am responsible for Trump and his policies
Who did you vote for for congress?
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:24 AM   #329
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
They could go to summer camp.

I understand there are some real budget programs out there.
Not sure that is going to mitigate the threats from the left against the children of rank and file ice employees.
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:25 AM   #330
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,285
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I voted for Gary Johnson, in Illinois. There is no way the election would be close in Illinois. I detested and still detest Trump. I have been very vocal in opposing Trump, not only here but on Facebook. I consider myself a conservative - and so I could not in good conscience to who I thought would be best for America, vote for Hillary (especially in a state where I feel the Democratic Party is a machine geared to help itself and the state be damned), and it didn't matter for my vote anyway.

Please tell me again how I am responsible for Trump and his policies
I thought I pretty much explained things...

Did you vote for a republican congress critter (the ones who are falling lock-step to support Trump, even if they are vocal about the child separation policy)? Did you vote republican in the past, when the party was running around gerrymandering and engaging in voter suppression?

Ok, you didn't like Clinton... so you looked at the 2 options, and decided that it would be better for a racist Orangutan to be in power over a person who is, for the most part, relatively moderate and, well, not a racist orangutan.

And even if your vote didn't factor in to the final election result, you should have voted for her for no other reason than the symbolic "Not everyone in the U.S. wants a racist nut-bag in power and will do whatever we can to stop him".

I'm not American; I'm actually Canadian. However, I tend to vote conservative in our own federal elections. If I were in the states, at one point I might have favored the republican party. (Heck, I even defended George W. Bush at times). But those days are long gone, eliminated by the constant hypocracy, underhanded tactics, integration with the evangelical movement and the NRA, and underlying racism that seems to be endemic with the Republican party of today. I hope they get wiped out in the next few elections and spend a generation in the political wilderness so that they can learn that power for power's sake is not a virtue.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:27 AM   #331
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
It's the same if your goal is to make a really, really stupid argument.
hey we agree! comparing fonda to trump is really a bad argument, indeed!

particularly where fonda's threats were against Barron Trump and also directed at ice rank and file employee children.
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:41 AM   #332
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 44,154
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I voted for Gary Johnson, in Illinois. There is no way the election would be close in Illinois. I detested and still detest Trump. I have been very vocal in opposing Trump, not only here but on Facebook. I consider myself a conservative - and so I could not in good conscience to who I thought would be best for America, vote for Hillary (especially in a state where I feel the Democratic Party is a machine geared to help itself and the state be damned), and it didn't matter for my vote anyway.

Please tell me again how I am responsible for Trump and his policies
So you really think Johnson would have made the best leader?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:42 AM   #333
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,299
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
hey we agree! comparing fonda to trump is really a bad argument, indeed!

particularly where fonda's threats were against Barron Trump and also directed at ice rank and file employee children.
Womp Womp
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:43 AM   #334
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Not sure that is going to mitigate the threats from the left against the children of rank and file ice employees.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:44 AM   #335
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,285
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So you really think Johnson would have made the best leader?
Even if he though Johnson would be the best leader, there was no chance he could have won the election, which in the states typically comes down to Democrat vs. Republican.

So, a vote for Johnson was (indirectly) a vote that favored Trump.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:46 AM   #336
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
"I'm going to find the congressman's kids and kill them," an intern who took the call told the FBI, according to a federal complaint filed in U.S. District Court. "If you are going to separate kids at the border, I'm going to kill his kids."

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/po...ren/716134002/
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:49 AM   #337
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Even if he though Johnson would be the best leader, there was no chance he could have won the election, which in the states typically comes down to Democrat vs. Republican.

So, a vote for Johnson was (indirectly) a vote that favored Trump.
No it wasn't for reasons he explained in his post. Please refer to Article II Section 1 of the US Constitution
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:50 AM   #338
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,285
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"I'm going to find the congressman's kids and kill them," an intern who took the call told the FBI, according to a federal complaint filed in U.S. District Court. "If you are going to separate kids at the border, I'm going to kill his kids."
After that, he called them sub human mongrels and told them to suck on his machine gun.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:51 AM   #339
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 40,980
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I thought I pretty much explained things...

Did you vote for a republican congress critter (the ones who are falling lock-step to support Trump, even if they are vocal about the child separation policy)? Did you vote republican in the past, when the party was running around gerrymandering and engaging in voter suppression?

Ok, you didn't like Clinton... so you looked at the 2 options, and decided that it would be better for a racist Orangutan to be in power over a person who is, for the most part, relatively moderate and, well, not a racist orangutan.

And even if your vote didn't factor in to the final election result, you should have voted for her for no other reason than the symbolic "Not everyone in the U.S. wants a racist nut-bag in power and will do whatever we can to stop him".

I'm not American; I'm actually Canadian. However, I tend to vote conservative in our own federal elections. If I were in the states, at one point I might have favored the republican party. (Heck, I even defended George W. Bush at times). But those days are long gone, eliminated by the constant hypocracy, underhanded tactics, integration with the evangelical movement and the NRA, and underlying racism that seems to be endemic with the Republican party of today. I hope they get wiped out in the next few elections and spend a generation in the political wilderness so that they can learn that power for power's sake is not a virtue.
I voted for Hillary but gave serioius consideration to voting for Johnson simply because I hated Trump with a passion, but simply did not agree with a lot of Hilary's policies.
But to be fair, voting for Johnson did seem to be a "safe" protest vote because Hilary was heavily favored to win.
And I think you are not being fair, a number of people thought there would be more resistence to Trump from Republicans in Congress then their has been.
I will give people a pass for 2016, but not for 2018. I am voting a straight Democratic ticket.....and I HATE,HATE,HATE having to do that.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 20th June 2018 at 10:53 AM.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:52 AM   #340
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
hey we agree! comparing fonda to trump is really a bad argument, indeed!

particularly where fonda's threats were against Barron Trump and also directed at ice rank and file employee children.
Yet another response that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Care to try again, this time with more honesty? The point was comparing the influence of Fonda vs. Trump.

You can find it yourself by scrolling up a bit.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:53 AM   #341
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"I'm going to find the congressman's kids and kill them," an intern who took the call told the FBI, according to a federal complaint filed in U.S. District Court. "If you are going to separate kids at the border, I'm going to kill his kids."

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/po...ren/716134002/
Your faux outrage is adorable.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:55 AM   #342
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,299
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Your faux outrage is adorable.
The appropriate response to that is 'womp womp'.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:55 AM   #343
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 40,980
And our Trump fanboys try to defend the indefensible.

It's either from blind worship of Trump or they think people with Brown Skins are not really human.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:57 AM   #344
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
both
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 10:58 AM   #345
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 40,980
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Note how all the 2nd amendmenters love to talk about how guns are important to fight the tyranny of the government. But when someone on the left starts talking about actually fighting the tyranny of the government, then all of a sudden it's treason and out of line.

What if instead of BLM we had black people shooting cops, and they did it on the grounds of fighting tyranny? Basically, a black person gets stopped and shoots first when they felt threatened. You think republicans would be supporting their 2nd amendment rights to fight the tyranny of government? What if black people created a militia to take out bad cops?

I want to know, what exactly do the 2nd amendment consider to be tyranny that justifies the use of weapons against the government?
I would say if there is no hope of realistacllly peaceable and legally replacing a government in power, then armed resistence becomes a morally justified course of action.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:04 AM   #346
SuburbanTurkey
Critical Thinker
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 496
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am voting a straight Democratic ticket.....and I HATE,HATE,HATE having to do that.
Yeah, there's really no place for traditional conservatives anymore. The radical right has taken over the Republican party and it must be soundly defeated. I would feel bad for classic conservatives, but they stood by idle while this cancer spread through their party. They were plenty happy with all the votes the dogwhistle politics brought in, so they own this disaster.

There's been a lot of of apathy in American politics, and lord knows that Hillary was a terrible choice to crack through that apathy. But we've been given an abject lesson in the importance of elections. Elections matter, voting matters.

I held my nose and pulled the lever for Hillary in '16. I'll pull the lever ecstatically for any D in '18 so long as they are anti-Trump. The R's are dead to me until they fully reckon with what they did to us.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:08 AM   #347
AnonyMoose
Scholar
 
AnonyMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Land of the Frozen Chosen
Posts: 112
Trump: Zero tolerance! No exceptions! Lock them up!

Trumpettes: Trump's our hero!





Trump: Changed my mind. Separating babies from their parents is mean, we need some exceptions.

Trumpettes: Trump's our hero!
AnonyMoose is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:09 AM   #348
The_Animus
Master Poster
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,858
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Even if he though Johnson would be the best leader, there was no chance he could have won the election, which in the states typically comes down to Democrat vs. Republican.

So, a vote for Johnson was (indirectly) a vote that favored Trump.
This line of thinking needs to be covered in cement and dropped in the deepest part of the ocean.

Over and over I've seen Clinton supporters lament that a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump. And over and over I've seen Trump supporters lament that a vote for a third party is a vote for Clinton.

Yes, apparently voting third party means your vote counts for 3, one for Clinton, one for Trump, and one for the third party candidate.

All a third party vote really says is that a person can't in good conscience support either the democratic or republican candidate.
__________________
Straw Man, Ad Hominem, Moving the Goalposts, and a massive post count are all good indicators that a poster is intellectually dishonest and not interested in real discussion.

Feeding trolls only makes them stronger, yet it is so hard to refrain.
The_Animus is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:09 AM   #349
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 8,469
Nazi agenda:
- Criminalize a civil offense
- Apply label of "criminal" to otherwise decent people
- Mention actual violent criminals
- Conflate the two, use race and labels to link
- Incite
- Now you can do <whatever> to the unarmed and defenseless, because "dark" and "feared for my life."

Transparent pap for the weak-minded and ethically vacant, or eager sociopaths. Also contrary to gospel for claimants of adherence to that code.

***
Now, as to all that "rule of law" jawboning from the GOP, TBD and logger:
  • Using your own original wording, without quoting any source, identify the conceptual relationship you personally believe, and can arguably sustain, that holds between the Bill of Rights, representative democracy, and the separation of powers, as compensating measures, with respect to the "rule of law" and "will of the People." Note that a big hint for kiddies has already been given you in the wording to provide some measure of chance, even if slight.
Or capitulate. Otherwise, stand down as incapable and patently unequipped to participate in reasoned adult debate regarding the proper nature and scope of laws and their enforcement in democracy (another hint). Fair warning: On this topic, I am quite willing to take firm hold, wrap coils, and squeeze until inert. As you both have taken a knee and chosen the first escape option on offer explicitly before, I suggest you make that same, safe determination, or finally admit you must take the second, more definitive, out.

And if you never even thought there was such a relation, turn off the PC, and go watch cartoons.

(I may be called away to work or play, but shall return.)
__________________
Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. Spends that time playing video games.
Summer Ongoing penance for overeating: His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:09 AM   #350
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 82,964
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
That isn't surprising.

I'm sure they don't either.

If it was "so simple" we wouldn't have a massive backlog of rape kits and other DNA evidence (of real, violent crimes) waiting to be tested.
Where have you been for the last decade or so? The documentary series CSI has documented that you can get a DNA match done within minutes!
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:11 AM   #351
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
Separate children from parents detailed for committing a crime.
The Left: Won't somebody think of the Children?

People call for violent attacks on ICE employees' children and threaten to murder Congressmen's kids.
The Left: Whomp whomp
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:15 AM   #352
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,285
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I voted for Hillary but gave serioius consideration to voting for Johnson simply because I hated Trump with a passion, but simply did not agree with a lot of Hilary's policies.
That is quite understandable. Its doubtful ANY politician will be a perfect match to anyone's policies, and Clinton was certainly no exception.

But the last election was not just about policy. It was about competency and integrity. Normally its not an issue... But again, Trump is different, and even if you differed over elements of policy, Clinton should clearly have been the preferred choice because, well, not a racist nut-bag.

I also have to wonder... if someone were a long time republican, would they REALLY find Clinton's policies that far off from the traditional republican stances? She was seen as being on the right-side of the Democrats, pro-corporate and had an aggressive foreign policy. On the other hand, while Trump talked deregulation and tax cuts, he also talked about ending foreign trade agreements and cutting back in America's military involvement overseas (a lie, but it was still a promise). So, in some ways Trump was even less of a republican than Clinton was.

Quote:
But to be fair, voting for Johnson did seem to be a "safe" protest vote because Hilary was heavily favored to win.
Again, even if that was the case (although one should never be 100% sure... Pennsylvania was also considered solidly democrat), there is also the symbolic aspect of the vote... the "We REALLY disagree with your racism so we're going to vote for your opponent.")

Quote:
And I think you are not being fair, a number of people thought there would be more resistence to Trump from Republicans in Congress then their has been.
Then they were foolish.

The republicans had just spent 8 years being the party opposed to just about everything Obama did, regardless of merit. They spent much of the last year blocking Obama's supreme court nominee due to some non-existent "Biden rule". The party had voted multiple times to repeal Obamacare. They ran multiple investigations into Bengazi that turned up... nothing. And they were under significant influence from the religious right, the NRA, and the tea party. Why would anyone think that a party that had been so intractable during the Obama years would all of a sudden turn around and be the voice of reason and moderation? Did they think there was some sort of Mind Wipe device like they had in Men in Black that would automatically make them forget that "Oh, I'm supposed to be an uber-republican"?
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:17 AM   #353
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 13,882
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So you really think Johnson would have made the best leader?
Absolutely.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:17 AM   #354
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,469
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Separate children from parents detailed for committing a crime.
The Left: Won't somebody think of the Children?

People call for violent attacks on ICE employees' children and threaten to murder Congressmen's kids.
The Left: Whomp whomp
Quote please. So far, all the Left have been pointing out is that a resident of a mobile home park is less influential than the President of the USA. If anyone on the left has said his threats are acceptable, please quote and we will join you in deploring the comments.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:18 AM   #355
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,299
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Separate children from parents detailed for committing a crime.
The Left: Won't somebody think of the Children?

People call for violent attacks on ICE employees' children and threaten to murder Congressmen's kids.
The Left: Whomp whomp
Do you support putting children in cages?
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:20 AM   #356
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 18,386
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Who did you vote for for congress?
I voted for August (O'Neill) Deuser, Republican - there was no Libertarian in the race. Deuser got 25.9% of the vote against ex-black Panther, ordained minister and serial mumbler Bobby Rush - who has yet to move the needle economically in any positive fashion in his district, or even promote racial harmony in any meaningful way that I can detect.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:23 AM   #357
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,974
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Womp Womp
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Quote please. So far, all the Left have been pointing out is that a resident of a mobile home park is less influential than the President of the USA. If anyone on the left has said his threats are acceptable, please quote and we will join you in deploring the comments.
And the whole "less powerful than Trump" bait and switch red herring derail is utterly specious.

Someone recommended attacking the children of ICE employees.
He is not as influential as Trump.

I guess the left does feel the threats are acceptable, because they sure have done nothing to "deplore" them.
__________________
A proud member of a dissident religious group.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:24 AM   #358
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,285
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Re: Votes for a 3rd party helped Trump...

All a third party vote really says is that a person can't in good conscience support either the democratic or republican candidate.
First of all, if your 'good conscience' manages to suggest Clinton (a flawed but relatively competent candidate) and Trump (a racist orangutan with a string of failed businesses and shady deals) are somehow equivalent then your "good conscience" is a failure. Trump is a racist nut-bag, Clinton was not. Not doing everything you can to stop Trump means that you consider things like the forced separation of children from parents to be less significant than it really is.

Secondly, the U.S. is (for better or worse) a 2 party system. If one of the candidates is REALLY bad (like, for example, a racist orangutan who tries to equate Mexicans with "rapists" and who eventually brings about a situation where children are forcefully separated from their parents) it makes sense to want them stopped. A vote for a 3rd party says "Errr.... racism is no big deal".
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:24 AM   #359
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,910
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Do you support putting children in cages?
Why do you even bother?
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2018, 11:25 AM   #360
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,910
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I voted for August (O'Neill) Deuser, Republican - there was no Libertarian in the race. Deuser got 25.9% of the vote against ex-black Panther, ordained minister and serial mumbler Bobby Rush - who has yet to move the needle economically in any positive fashion in his district, or even promote racial harmony in any meaningful way that I can detect.
Where does Deuser stand on the Trump-issue?

ETA: Reading a Q&A with Deuser he seems like a regular Trumpster. It's from 2016, so I guess he might have changed ()
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

Last edited by uke2se; 20th June 2018 at 11:31 AM.
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:25 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.