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Old 12th August 2019, 02:06 PM   #81
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
The National Gallery of Australia has a painting by Jackson Pollock that was according to the headlines in 1972 was painted by drunks, yet it was a very good investment. Not to mention a good work of art.

This brings to mind something my brother told me when he was studying art. One of the lecturers had told the class that all children were brilliant artists, because they had not yet developed inhibitions. The inhibitions stopped adults from expressing themselves in a more candid way it would seem. The lecturers statement was accepted as a truism by all of my brothers colleagues.

Perhaps a drunk then is potentially a more gifted artist than a sober person, being to some extent released from inhibition.
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Old 12th August 2019, 02:15 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
LOOOL.

"Prey" like it's somehow a bad thing to do this.

You know why airline travel is such a crappy experience? Because it turns out that pretty much everyone would rather pay as little as possible for the convenience of teleporting across the country in hours where it used to take weeks or months, and pretty much nobody is interested in paying extra for amenities.
It is very much a bad thing if you bought a set of "Brembo" brakes for your track day car,,,and they weren't Brembo's:

https://www.brembo.com/en/company/ne...-fake-products

​Everybody wants them, everybody is looking for them: Brembo's brakes have millions of lovers throughout the world.

But exactly because they are loved by the most competent drivers, Brembo's car systems are sometimes copied by counterfeiters who put Brembo's hallmark on their products. These imitations are mostly aesthetic because these manufacturers are not able to reproduce the performance quality of Brembo's systems.

For this reason Brembo is extending the innovative approach that has always distinguished its products to its customer service. Brembo is the first in its industry to launch a service that guarantees the authenticity of the product purchased!

Brembo has introduced a new approach to ensure its customer a safer buying experience for its products, against the dangers of buying counterfeit products.

The difference is not insignificant because it concerns the braking system, an active safety system. Only if it's working perfectly the safety of the driver, the passengers and of the other drivers or pedestrians is not at risk.


Or if your new Gibson Les Paul...isn't:

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/how...s-paul-seconds

Recently, we shared some incredibly popular advice from guitarist Kennis Russell—"How to Spot a Fake Fender Stratocaster in Seconds."

Russell made the video because, at some point, he bought a used Strat at his local guitar shop and soon realized it was fake.

Well, this sort of thing seems to happen to Russell fairly often, because that's also the back-story to his follow-up video, "How to Spot a Fake Gibson in Seconds," which you can stream below.

"I picked up a fake Gibson Les Paul Custom Goldtop at my local pawn shop." Russell writes. "Within a few seconds of playing, I realized it was a fake, and a bad fake at that. In this video, I compare this fake Gibson Les Paul Custom to an Epiphone Les Paul Custom and a Real Gibson Les Paul. Here are the things I identified as fake: poor binding, the truss-rod cover, the fret inlays, the bridge, the serial number, the headstock, logo, tuners and more."
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Old 12th August 2019, 02:16 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Off topic I know, but I’m an exception here, and I know I’m not alone. I never fly budget. Full service airlines for me and business class on long haul.
We have learned that business class is a great deal if you can do it on points.
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Old 12th August 2019, 02:48 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
LOOOL.

"Prey" like it's somehow a bad thing to do this.

You know why airline travel is such a crappy experience? Because it turns out that pretty much everyone would rather pay as little as possible for the convenience of teleporting across the country in hours where it used to take weeks or months, and pretty much nobody is interested in paying extra for amenities.
All it took to convince me to pay a little more was one 60-minute flight on Spirit Airlines.
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Old 12th August 2019, 02:58 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
https://www.moma.org/audio/playlist/40/639

What do you see in this painting?

Look carefully.
The earth from 5,000 feet whilst in a rocket.
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Old 12th August 2019, 03:08 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
The earth from 5,000 feet whilst in a rocket.

Yes I can see it now it's been explained to me. Is that what you are on about Venom?
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Old 12th August 2019, 03:15 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
It is very much a bad thing if you bought a set of "Brembo" brakes for your track day car,,,and they weren't Brembo's
You're talking about fraud, which is different from competing with lower quality for lower price.
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Old 12th August 2019, 03:51 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
All it took to convince me to pay a little more was one 60-minute flight on Spirit Airlines.
What would it take to convince you to just fly first class every time?
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Old 12th August 2019, 04:42 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What would it take to convince you to just fly first class every time?
A very large bank account.
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Old 12th August 2019, 05:00 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
And art is not like a joke. Sometimes if you explain it, you can appreciate it better.

Two examples;
Picasso. While I like surrealism and cubism styles, I never really warmed to Picasso, until I saw an exhibition of his cartoons that showed the development of a single line to a portrait and then the flounder-like metamorphosis to the final image. The fact that he was able to capture a portrait or idea with a single line underlined just how impressive were his skills.
His pencil sketches are some of my favorite work.

Not that I have seen very much "in person."
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Old 12th August 2019, 05:04 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Gold has many good qualities so will be valuable in almost any society.
- rare
- soft, so can easily be made into desired shapes
- is shiny
- does not corrode or react with other materials
- low melting point
It's purdy.
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Old 12th August 2019, 05:18 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
A very large bank account.
Exactly. The distance between Spirit and not-Spirit air travel is a lot less than the distance between not-Spirit and Actual First Class.

Last edited by theprestige; 12th August 2019 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:17 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
What I thought was interesting, was the art experts did not question the quality of the suspect piece of art, they only questioned the authenticity. Could not the quality be just as good or better and thus the value high?
"Quality" in what sense? High-quality paint? Perfectly ergonomic brush strokes? Straighter lines?

But none of this is what makes art.

Art is governed by the Rule of Cool. This rule is entirely subjective. One person's "cool" is another person's "meh". Some people look at this and say, "that's cool!" Others probably look at it and say, "what's the point?"

One artist thinks it would be cool to put up "blank" pieces and see how they look under certain lighting conditions as such. Some people will agree that it's cool. Others will at least have some food for thought, about objects and lighting. Still others will say "meh" and move on with their lives.

Piet Mondrian started out painting landscapes. But eventually he decided it would be cool to explore the nature of shape and color itself, and his own ability to render these things. I think Broadway Boogie Woogie is cool, both in and of itself, and also because of its provenance. You could make a Mondrian abstract with straighter lines, more consistent brush strokes, higher quality paint, etc. - A higher quality painting than the original. But it would lack the provenance. It would lack the essential quality of springing spontaneously from the mind of Piet Mondrian, and connecting you to his mind as you experience the work. So the counterfeit would not be "cool" to me in the same was as the original, regardless of its high quality.

(To be fair, it might be "cool" in its own way, springing from the mind of the counterfeiter and connecting you with him via the experience of their work.)

But it is the provenance of a work, not its quality, that makes it cool.

That said, I think there's room for skepticism about art as industry. For sure there are people who seek to monetize the rule of cool, and make a living influencing public perception about what is cool and what isn't. And once a particular look and feel becomes "cool", some artists turn to assembly-line techniques while trying to preserve the perception of provenance that makes their art "cool". Thomas Kincaid, for example.

So there's room for skepticism there. Is Broadway Boogie Woogie a spontaneous creation of the artist, substantially the product of his own effort, exploring something interesting (at least to him), and connecting you with him as you experience the work? Or is it an assembly-line piece, put together by jobsworth assistance, having no real personal interest for the artist? Or is it both? Or neither?

---

tl;dr - being skeptical about art is like being skeptical about the Rule of Cool.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:37 PM   #94
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I'll disagree slightly.


The greater part of the value of visual art is, or should be anyway, how it looks.
What people are willing to pay for some art has little to do with how it looks. I'm sure we know many reasons why that is. Even trying to be objective, we are subconsciously influenced by a lot more that just what we see.
I think if you could remove these biases, all humans would actually turn out to have a very similar sense of aesthetics.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:51 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Art is governed by the Rule of Cool. This rule is entirely subjective. One person's "cool" is another person's "meh". Some people look at this and say, "that's cool!" Others probably look at it and say, "what's the point?"
You cannot depress cool, impossible!
You might be able to do something about cool people dictating what will become cool next, but that seems futile. We are after all a social species first and foremost. We generally think things are cool if, who we consider cool people, consider it cool. Whether it's really cool or not, only time will tell, maybe...
Cool Fads and fashions will come and go whether dictated by cool celebrities or originating in the wild, on the street, with normal cool people.
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Old 13th August 2019, 10:37 PM   #96
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I've always struggled with modern art, most of it conveys nothing to my mind at all - which I'm willing to concede is probably my loss, but there it is. I'd seen some of David Hockney's stuff and found it at least relatable, but I wouldn't have sought it out. Then in April this year I went to Holland on holiday and at the Van Gogh museum (one of my favourite artists) I found an exhibition of the paintings Hockney did when he returned to Yorkshire for a few years in the early 2000s. It blew my mind. There were conventional landscapes, but there were also a lot of the pictures he made using the iPad paint program - they'd displayed one so you could watch the individual actions that created it. My favourite piece was a set of videos he'd created by driving a vehicle covered with cameras down the same forest track in all four seasons. Four sets of nine screens were arranged so you stood in the middle and could turn and see the journey unfold as the landscape changed from spring through to winter.

Throughout the exhibition there were also Van Gogh landscapes displayed alongside the Hockney ones and, you know, Hockney really did not suffer in comparison.

I guess the lesson is that even someone who finds modern art a challenge should persevere, they might eventually find something that reaches them.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:16 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I've always struggled with modern art, most of it conveys nothing to my mind at all - which I'm willing to concede is probably my loss, but there it is. I'd seen some of David Hockney's stuff and found it at least relatable, but I wouldn't have sought it out. Then in April this year I went to Holland on holiday and at the Van Gogh museum (one of my favourite artists) I found an exhibition of the paintings Hockney did when he returned to Yorkshire for a few years in the early 2000s. It blew my mind. There were conventional landscapes, but there were also a lot of the pictures he made using the iPad paint program - they'd displayed one so you could watch the individual actions that created it. My favourite piece was a set of videos he'd created by driving a vehicle covered with cameras down the same forest track in all four seasons. Four sets of nine screens were arranged so you stood in the middle and could turn and see the journey unfold as the landscape changed from spring through to winter.

Throughout the exhibition there were also Van Gogh landscapes displayed alongside the Hockney ones and, you know, Hockney really did not suffer in comparison.

I guess the lesson is that even someone who finds modern art a challenge should persevere, they might eventually find something that reaches them.
You will obviously not believe this, but A spiritualist medium once said the spirit of Van Gogh was interested in me. He did not give me any message though. Years later I painted a picture as a homage to him. Its called
'Once more over the sunflowers for Vincent' and you can see it at the following link to a page of my paintings. My name there is Dajjal, not Scorpion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/thread...ntings.242516/
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:34 AM   #98
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A little off topic, but if anyone is interested in art from a slightly different perspective:

Many cities hold competitions known as Art Battle. These are live painting events.

6 canvases (usually, although sometimes there can be more or less) are arranged in a circle, and painters are given 20 minutes to paint whatever they want... landscapes, portraits, abstracts, wildlife. At the end of the round, people get to vote on what they view as the best (with the winners going on to the next round). At the end of the evening, they auction off the paitings. (I've bought several pieces... the paintings can be good, and there is an interesting story behind the pieces... "I saw this painted in 20 minutes".)

Sadly, there aren't as many brush-related stabbings as you would expect from a competition called "Art Battle".

https://artbattle.com/
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:37 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
A little off topic, but if anyone is interested in art from a slightly different perspective:

Many cities hold competitions known as Art Battle. These are live painting events.

6 canvases (usually, although sometimes there can be more or less) are arranged in a circle, and painters are given 20 minutes to paint whatever they want... landscapes, portraits, abstracts, wildlife. At the end of the round, people get to vote on what they view as the best (with the winners going on to the next round). At the end of the evening, they auction off the paitings. (I've bought several pieces... the paintings can be good, and there is an interesting story behind the pieces... "I saw this painted in 20 minutes".)

Sadly, there aren't as many brush-related stabbings as you would expect from a competition called "Art Battle".

https://artbattle.com/
I have a hard time viewing art as anything other than a reminder of a good story. Most of our art is pieces we have bought on vacation or bought from friends who are artists or given to us as gifts. We have one piece we bought at auction, but even that has a funny story. Now that I think of it, that piece will probably not make it into our next house and I will miss that story more than I will miss the art.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:18 AM   #100
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Art is making a scene or item into a image or sort of time capsule to me. How it was, how it was perceived at the moment of capture. It takes a certain eye backed with s certain talent to capture that moment.

I can paint a wall or a house. I can make it transmit a mood if I work harder on it. That's not art. Thats just work keeping my house looking nice.

Modern art and abstract, all its big and small segments elude me. I have seen some I could duplicate with a narrow paint roller and three colors of paint. Some sell for huge money at auction for reasons I will never understand.

But a master, Leo DaVinci and a lot of his students made images I do understand. I have bought and displayed prints of a few in my homes in the past. Not for the mystic hidden symbols or occult meanings some say they found in the works, but for glancing over and just being struck with the talent that made it possible.

I have dabbled in tin sculpture, decorative wood working and some freestanding sculpture to be used as store displays. Most of the wood stuff is appreciated and used by someone, two pieces only in my own home. An eagle woodcarving went the farthest to Catalonia, Spain. I got a thanks for it.

Alas, no money in any of it so off to a mundane job for a wage.
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Old 14th August 2019, 03:16 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I've always struggled with modern art, most of it conveys nothing to my mind at all - which I'm willing to concede is probably my loss, but there it is. I'd seen some of David Hockney's stuff and found it at least relatable, but I wouldn't have sought it out. Then in April this year I went to Holland on holiday and at the Van Gogh museum (one of my favourite artists) I found an exhibition of the paintings Hockney did when he returned to Yorkshire for a few years in the early 2000s. It blew my mind. There were conventional landscapes, but there were also a lot of the pictures he made using the iPad paint program - they'd displayed one so you could watch the individual actions that created it. My favourite piece was a set of videos he'd created by driving a vehicle covered with cameras down the same forest track in all four seasons. Four sets of nine screens were arranged so you stood in the middle and could turn and see the journey unfold as the landscape changed from spring through to winter.

Throughout the exhibition there were also Van Gogh landscapes displayed alongside the Hockney ones and, you know, Hockney really did not suffer in comparison.

I guess the lesson is that even someone who finds modern art a challenge should persevere, they might eventually find something that reaches them.

Yes I struggle with and often reject some modern art as a load of bollocks. Not all I must admit as I find some works pleasing. I get a perverse pleasure from listening in to others, explaining the "meaning" of a piece. I get the strong impression that the central objective of many is to impress others, with how astute they are personally.

My brothers work was largely impressionist. From the correct distance you could clearly see the tree, mountain, or building represented, but up close brushstrokes.
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Old 14th August 2019, 03:26 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Art is making a scene or item into a image or sort of time capsule to me. How it was, how it was perceived at the moment of capture. It takes a certain eye backed with s certain talent to capture that moment.

I can paint a wall or a house. I can make it transmit a mood if I work harder on it. That's not art. Thats just work keeping my house looking nice.

Modern art and abstract, all its big and small segments elude me. I have seen some I could duplicate with a narrow paint roller and three colors of paint. Some sell for huge money at auction for reasons I will never understand.

But a master, Leo DaVinci and a lot of his students made images I do understand. I have bought and displayed prints of a few in my homes in the past. Not for the mystic hidden symbols or occult meanings some say they found in the works, but for glancing over and just being struck with the talent that made it possible.

I have dabbled in tin sculpture, decorative wood working and some freestanding sculpture to be used as store displays. Most of the wood stuff is appreciated and used by someone, two pieces only in my own home. An eagle woodcarving went the farthest to Catalonia, Spain. I got a thanks for it.

Alas, no money in any of it so off to a mundane job for a wage.

Well in the following post Venom is directing our attention to a piece painted with a roller, that is described as art. As I understand it, it is art because of the surroundings it somehow highlights.

Perhaps you can regard the wall of your house, just painted, in the same light.


Originally Posted by Venom View Post
https://www.moma.org/audio/playlist/40/639

What do you see in this painting?

Look carefully.
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Last edited by Thor 2; 14th August 2019 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 05:49 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well in the following post Venom is directing our attention to a piece painted with a roller, that is described as art. As I understand it, it is art because of the surroundings it somehow highlights.

Perhaps you can regard the wall of your house, just painted, in the same light.
If I was painting the wall of my house I would get better coverage. With that streak in the middle that he forgot to cover his White Painting is misnamed. I would suggest White Painting with Black.
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Old 15th August 2019, 09:08 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well in the following post Venom is directing our attention to a piece painted with a roller, that is described as art. As I understand it, it is art because of the surroundings it somehow highlights.

Perhaps you can regard the wall of your house, just painted, in the same light.
Interior decoratng is an art form, so far white walls, Mex tile floors and wood curtain rods. Curtains van be white or white with dark blue, a recurring theme throughout the house. Sort of a modern application of traditional Mexican things.

Lots of hand made wood furniture and details make for a sort of artisanal flavor or scream we have spent a dime on furniture yet. Which is true.

Art as a whole image , possibly? As one wall not so much. It's taken s lot of time to pull it all together too.
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Old 15th August 2019, 09:19 AM   #105
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I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

If I take this can and put it on a marble pedestal in a gallery, put a tasteful white sign in front of it in Helvitica font that says "The Can: 2019 by JoeMorgue" and say it's a scathing critique of our consumer culture... it didn't magically become art at that point.
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Old 15th August 2019, 09:39 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

If I take this can and put it on a marble pedestal in a gallery, put a tasteful white sign in front of it in Helvitica font that says "The Can: 2019 by JoeMorgue" and say it's a scathing critique of our consumer culture... it didn't magically become art at that point.
Not magically, socially. Art is a social category.

Two people don't become magically married by signing a paper and saying a few words, they become socially married (and legally, but laws are mostly a subset of social categories).

It could be a bad marriage, a non-traditional marriage, a weird marriage. It could even be a fake marriage in the sense that it was done for a green card or that one partner is a gold digger. But they are married.

Go back in time a little bit and you don't even need the legal part of it. Jumping over a broom, dancing around a fire, heck even just moving in together and becoming common law married.

So there's nothing magic about the right signifiers creating a social categorization.

Now you may personally hold that the category is not well served by having such loose signifiers and qualifications. A fair number of people hold more narrow views of art. I'd be interested to hear what your more specific qualifiers are.

In general, there are a few categories of more limited definition.

One hold that "art" is something like a superlative, reserved for a level of quality judgement or effect. Something is art if it shows great skill or evokes great emotion or something like that.

Another is that art is limited to certain media or subjects or modes. For instance, some hold that visual art must be representational. Some hold that there is some baseline of labor that the individual artist must put into the piece.

Some folks hold the definition in their visceral gut feelings. Art is what feels like art to them, and anyone who can't see what art is along the same lines is often seen as lying or deluded.

Personally, I think these make for unnecessarily fuzzy boundaries and disagreement. We can hold that art is a broad category and then specify when particular examples are bad or dumb or overvalued.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:43 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

If I take this can and put it on a marble pedestal in a gallery, put a tasteful white sign in front of it in Helvitica font that says "The Can: 2019 by JoeMorgue" and say it's a scathing critique of our consumer culture... it didn't magically become art at that point.
If you properly light and compose it, simply taking a photo with your iPhone could turn it into art.
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Old 15th August 2019, 11:21 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.
Art has multiple dimensions and how much value you place on different aspects is personal. If, for you, beauty is the most important, you are not alone. Most people feel the same.

Study shows we like our math like we like our art: Beautiful

People are asked to rate mathematics, paintings and music for beauty and breaking it down into individual scores for seriousness, universality, profundity, novelty, clarity, simplicity, elegance, intricacy and sophistication.
High ratings in elegance was the most likely to predict a high rating for beauty.

Quote:
Laypeople not only had similar intuitions about the beauty of math as they did about the beauty of art but also had similar intuitions about beauty as each other. In other words, there was consensus about what makes something beautiful, regardless of modality.

"I'd like to see our study done again but with different pieces of music, different proofs, different artwork," said Steinerberger. "We demonstrated this phenomenon, but we don't know the limits of it. Where does it stop existing? Does it have to be classical music? Do the paintings have to be of the natural world, which is highly aesthetic?"
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Old 15th August 2019, 11:29 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
If you properly light and compose it, simply taking a photo with your iPhone could turn it into art.
For certain subjective but still perfectly cromulent values of "properly".
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Old 15th August 2019, 02:56 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art.
It would have to be Ballentine Ale to be art.


(That's a Jasper Johns joke.)
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:22 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

A commercial artist would have designed the label on the can. This was my brothers main channel of income. All labels are designed by commercial artists.
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:27 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
A commercial artist would have designed the label on the can. This was my brothers main channel of income. All labels are designed by commercial artists.
It would have to be a Campbell's Soup can to be art.

(That's an Andy Warhol joke.)

These cans are defective. He hates these cans. Stay away from the cans!

(That's a Steve Martin joke.)
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:03 PM   #113
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I'm not so fond of soup.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:21 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

If I take this can and put it on a marble pedestal in a gallery, put a tasteful white sign in front of it in Helvitica font that says "The Can: 2019 by JoeMorgue" and say it's a scathing critique of our consumer culture... it didn't magically become art at that point.
Yes it did.

You may have a budding career as an artist ahead of you.
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Old 16th August 2019, 05:30 AM   #115
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I recall a 60 Minutes segment from some years ago where they interviewed a couple in NY who collected art from “emerging” artists. They had an apartment full of the stuff.
As the crew was preparing to leave, the 60 Minutes guy (Morley Safer? I don’t recall) pointed to a short piece of rope that had been nailed to the wall.

“Is that art too?” He asked?

“Oh, yes.”

“Well, why?”

“Because the artist said it was.”

I saw in the news just last year that this couple had donated their entire collection to the Guggenheim... Reputedly valued at millions.
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Old 16th August 2019, 01:42 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

If I take this can and put it on a marble pedestal in a gallery, put a tasteful white sign in front of it in Helvitica font that says "The Can: 2019 by JoeMorgue" and say it's a scathing critique of our consumer culture... it didn't magically become art at that point.
No; the can did not "become" art any more than a glob of dried paint "becomes" art once applied to a canvas for any purpose. It will always be dried paint, and the canvas will always still be "canvas" no matter what is put on it, and your soda can will always be a soda can until it's actually melted down and forged into something else.

The "art" is the composition as a whole. It's what the can was used to make. That composition includes the marble pedestal, ostensibly the sign (unless its a caption added by the gallery), and - to a point - whatever you say in regards to it.
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Old 16th August 2019, 03:29 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I recall a 60 Minutes segment from some years ago where they interviewed a couple in NY who collected art from “emerging” artists. They had an apartment full of the stuff.
As the crew was preparing to leave, the 60 Minutes guy (Morley Safer? I don’t recall) pointed to a short piece of rope that had been nailed to the wall.

“Is that art too?” He asked?

“Oh, yes.”

“Well, why?”

“Because the artist said it was.”

I saw in the news just last year that this couple had donated their entire collection to the Guggenheim... Reputedly valued at millions.
Valued at millions by naive "art experts" no doubt. I bet they would gaze in wonder at the piece of rope you describe and compare opinions about the nature of the artist's message conveyed.
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:48 PM   #118
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The art experts are of course the ones that work with or at the Guggenheim. If they received a pile of kiddy artwork from a preschool there would have been no press release or experts called in.

It is a thing of prestige to have a early work of a famous name or a large collection of any known artists. Hyping up values of never auctioned works is just silly. But it may help with insurance paperwork on each piece.

I would guess the insurance part more.
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:58 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm generally pretty dismissive of the "It's art because I call it art" thing.

Right now there's an empty can of Seagram's Ginger Ale sitting on my desk at work. It is not art. It's a functional object with some industrial design applied to it.

If I take this can and put it on a marble pedestal in a gallery, put a tasteful white sign in front of it in Helvitica font that says "The Can: 2019 by JoeMorgue" and say it's a scathing critique of our consumer culture... it didn't magically become art at that point.
From Wikipedia

Quote:
Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.
Sound like you made art. You are dismissive of your conceptual idea, but you are still expressing it.
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Old 16th August 2019, 08:05 PM   #120
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I'm skeptical about whether modern abstract art is art. Very skeptical about that.
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