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Tags Jeffrey Epstein , sex offenders , sex trafficking

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Old 14th August 2019, 05:16 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Far out

It is either extremely dodgy or the mother load of all badly run prisons

I didn't even think you could hang yourself with the sheets they use these days
Well i guess we should defer to your no doubt extensive experience with prison bed-sheets.
I agree it is likely that few of us here would question cullennz's professed familiarity with prison sheets. I certainly would hesitate to challenge his expertise.

But I can say with a certain amount of confidence that in most cases, if someone can make a sheet out of something that sheets are normally made of, I can probably make a rope out of that sheet which would suffice to suffocate somebody.

Blankets as well. Even most clothes, I suspect.
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:38 AM   #522
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Multiple broken bones in the neck but he was found in the kneeling position......
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:07 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Then why don't we have to have the "Bank Robbery is about power, not greed!" talk every time we discuss a bank robbery?

"Reality is complex and the discussion therefore has to be nuanced and ultra-precise" when it's only whenever we feel like it... isn't really an argument.
I think one reason is that some of the places people go starting with "Rape is about sex" are sort of toxic. For instance the idea that rape may be blamed to some degree on women for creating sexual arousal in the way they dress or act. Or the idea that rape may be driven by mens sexual deprivation and women owe sex to men to prevent rape.

To the extent that property crimes may be driven by deprivation (poverty) we can acknowledge that and it seems less likely to get into dystopian victim blaming. Although I suppose to libertarians, suggestions to ease poverty may sound similar to the absurd response to rape
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:07 AM   #524
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Okay... This isn't weird at all...

"Jeffrey Epstein had an oil painting of Bill Clinton in a blue dress — lounging on a chair in the Oval Office — hanging up in his Manhattan townhouse, "

https://nypost.com/2019/08/14/epstei...-in-townhouse/
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:25 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Pop culture media (especially police procedural dramas in this case) feature endless examples of characters with various conditions eventually culminating in a scene with low 2nd-rate acting where there's a shivering, tearful exposition about how they tried to be good, but the "urges" were too powerful and other such nonsense.

This sadly echoes the entire way we approach the nature of any sexual violence. Constantly reinforcing the idea that some preternatural urges come along causing you to "lose control" basically gives people the exact excuse they need to decide at a certain level of arousal all the rules go away. I don't doubt some people report that from their perspective, but its a farcical ego defense mechanism. It is a rationalization for dominating another person (sex is the instrument, not the real goal). The way these kinds of programs leave the rationalization hanging there without thorough rebuttal is just shameful.

There was an episode of Law & Order Special Victims Unit in which a teenage rapist's defense attorney argued that he couldn't help himself because his brain was "wired wrong". He was sent to prison anyway, and eventually brutally assaulted and raped by another inmate. The attacker smirked and said "I couldn't help it. I guess my brain must be wired wrong.", leaving the defense attorney with a look of horror on her face at the Pandora's Box she had unintentionally opened.
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:27 AM   #526
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I recall that the late sex researcher, John Money, wrote that “Rape is about sex, not power”.... Writing when the “rape is about power” was becoming a popular meme.

He also noted that rapists were hardly monolithic, and that one type almost never harmed victims but actually expected that once the sex act would be completed, the victim would fall in love with him. Often these individuals would continue to try to contact the victim afterwards, convinced they had a “relationship”.
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:25 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Multiple broken bones in the neck but he was found in the kneeling position......
And?
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Old 15th August 2019, 07:17 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
And?
Some sources/people are claiming that those wounds/injuries more consistent with homicide then suicide.

To what degree that is accurate I don't know.
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Old 15th August 2019, 07:38 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Some sources/people are claiming that those wounds/injuries more consistent with homicide then suicide.

To what degree that is accurate I don't know.
I get that, but I'm more interested in why it's noteworthy that he was found in a kneeling position. I hope people realize that, in order for people to kill themselves by strangulation, they don't need to make a fancy noose and hang themselves with it from the ceiling.

It's far easier to use a sink, handlebars on a bed or wall and stuff like that. If he did, then he would almost certainly be in a kneeling position because it's far easier to leverage the thing you are strangling yourself with your muscles that way.

This is why detention facilities have to go out of their way to make certain rooms more or less "suicide proof": there can't be anything there that they can use to strangle themselves nor can there be sharp edges.
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Old 15th August 2019, 08:30 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I recall that the late sex researcher, John Money, wrote that “Rape is about sex, not power”.... Writing when the “rape is about power” was becoming a popular meme.

He also noted that rapists were hardly monolithic, and that one type almost never harmed victims but actually expected that once the sex act would be completed, the victim would fall in love with him. Often these individuals would continue to try to contact the victim afterwards, convinced they had a “relationship”.
I've always thought when this sort of discussion comes up that it's pretty silly to assume that all rapists have the same motivation.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:17 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I get that, but I'm more interested in why it's noteworthy that he was found in a kneeling position. I hope people realize that, in order for people to kill themselves by strangulation, they don't need to make a fancy noose and hang themselves with it from the ceiling.

It's far easier to use a sink, handlebars on a bed or wall and stuff like that. If he did, then he would almost certainly be in a kneeling position because it's far easier to leverage the thing you are strangling yourself with your muscles that way.

This is why detention facilities have to go out of their way to make certain rooms more or less "suicide proof": there can't be anything there that they can use to strangle themselves nor can there be sharp edges.
Broken necks from hangings are a result of a drop not pressure from a kneeling position
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:25 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Broken necks from hangings are a result of a drop not pressure from a kneeling position
You can drop into a kneeling position.

Just go back to posting smileys. You make more sense that way.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:30 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
In literally every conversation I've read about Epstein he is called a paedophile.

But paedophile refers to attraction tot prepubescent children if I'm not mistaken. I don't even know the correct term for attraction to teenagers before the age of consent. Is that paederast?

Incel now means sexless nerd on the verge of a mass shooting. It used to just be a guy who couldn't get laid. As far as I know, there now isn't a term to describe men who can't get a girlfriend AND don't want to unload an AK-47 in a mall. Although I suspect that this demographic is considerably larger.
I said as much in a thread on this forum a while back. I first heard the term "incel" 20+ years ago, and it was basically a group of people who couldn't get laid and were sad about it. Now it apparently only refers to those who can't get laid and are furiously angry and/or violently misogynistic about it. I don't doubt that that's a significant problem, but it's a shame that the (far bigger?) group have essentially lost their group identity and can't talk about their issue anymore without being thought of as monsters.

Similar thing with "nice guy", which I've been informed is one of those phrases that now means the exact opposite of what it says, to everybody. Everybody who matters, anyway.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:31 AM   #534
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There is already a conspiracy theory thread elsewhere. That would be a good place for someone to introduce facts about which bones were broken, how, and how the injuries might vary from the "official story" or whatever.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:31 AM   #535
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The pig was 66 years old. So it seems to me that a broken neck could be quite feasible from a self-inflicted strangulation situation when you consider that our bones and joints become weaker and more brittle as we age, even more so if our health is poor. Particularly if he wrapped the sheet tight enough around his neck that might cause it to snap as the body naturally starts to desperately flail, fight, and spasm during those last gasps for air.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:39 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Broken necks from hangings are a result of a drop not pressure from a kneeling position
He had broken bones, not a broken neck. Pay attention.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:42 AM   #537
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The broken bones are the result of a murderer infiltrating his cell, committing the homicide, and then escaping. The assassin will prove to be especially clever if there is no forensic evidence of a struggle. The lack of physical evidence points to Clintoncide. That's how the nefarious crime family operates.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:55 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The broken bones are the result of a murderer infiltrating his cell, committing the homicide, and then escaping. The assassin will prove to be especially clever if there is no forensic evidence of a struggle. The lack of physical evidence points to Clintoncide. That's how the nefarious crime family operates.
In fact i am convinced that Killary personally snuck into the prison and intentionally killed him in such a way only to troll the armchair prison suicide experts and Killary hunters out there.
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Old 15th August 2019, 11:15 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
In fact i am convinced that Killary personally snuck into the prison and intentionally killed him in such a way only to troll the armchair prison suicide experts and Killary hunters out there.
This is very plausible. Maybe her health wasn't as poor as we were led to believe during the 2016 campaign. She may have been faking illness in order to lose the election and murder Epstein under precisely these circumstances. Why assassinate him at rape island when you can do it at a federal prison? The pieces are coming together...
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Old 15th August 2019, 11:33 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
This is very plausible. Maybe her health wasn't as poor as we were led to believe during the 2016 campaign. She may have been faking illness in order to lose the election and murder Epstein under precisely these circumstances. Why assassinate him at rape island when you can do it at a federal prison? The pieces are coming together...
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Old 15th August 2019, 12:32 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It always strikes me as odd that so many people think they can separate sex from other drives. Why would sex be isolated, a thing apart from other motivations?
I would venture to guess that it's because it's already separate. All other drives (food, air, sleep, family) are present from birth, but sex drive may or may not develop along with the person as they mature.

Per the incels, fifteen years ago they found the asexuality forums. And they were pretty angry then.
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Old 15th August 2019, 12:38 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Okay... This isn't weird at all...

"Jeffrey Epstein had an oil painting of Bill Clinton in a blue dress — lounging on a chair in the Oval Office — hanging up in his Manhattan townhouse, "

https://nypost.com/2019/08/14/epstei...-in-townhouse/
This certainly fulfilled my weird-quota for the day. I wonder if they had a falling out, and Epstein used him for comic relief.
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Old 15th August 2019, 01:16 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Okay... This isn't weird at all...

"Jeffrey Epstein had an oil painting of Bill Clinton in a blue dress — lounging on a chair in the Oval Office — hanging up in his Manhattan townhouse, "

https://nypost.com/2019/08/14/epstei...-in-townhouse/
Well, its Monica Lewinsky's blue dress isn't it; the one he gave her. Someone should examine the painting to see if the artist included the stains.

I guess there is some kind of twisted "art" in that painting!
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Old 15th August 2019, 01:29 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
There is already a conspiracy theory thread elsewhere. That would be a good place for someone to introduce facts about which bones were broken, how, and how the injuries might vary from the "official story" or whatever.
no, he "officially" has a broken kneck

no conspiracy
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Old 15th August 2019, 01:41 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, its Monica Lewinsky's blue dress isn't it; the one he gave her. Someone should examine the painting to see if the artist included the stains.

I guess there is some kind of twisted "art" in that painting!
The artist is here
https://www.saatchiart.com/print/Pai...2/1670265/view

To be fair, I dont think the artist has anything to do with epstein, it's not like epstein commissioned it. Maybe epstein just bought it cos its got his mate in a dress and it would be funny?

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Old 15th August 2019, 01:44 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, its Monica Lewinsky's blue dress isn't it; the one he gave her. Someone should examine the painting to see if the artist included the stains.

I guess there is some kind of twisted "art" in that painting!
Not sure where to look for them...
Also not sure I want to know where to look for them...
In case someone else does and is...

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Old 15th August 2019, 02:28 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
The artist is here
https://www.saatchiart.com/print/Pai...2/1670265/view

To be fair, I dont think the artist has anything to do with epstein, it's not like epstein commissioned it. Maybe epstein just bought it cos its got his mate in a dress and it would be funny?
Don't you see? He's pointing right at the viewer... he's pointing right at Jeffrey Epstein, as if saying "my wife is going to sneak into wherever you are hiding and snap your neck like a twig if you talk"... though it seems Epstein didn't get the message.
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Old 15th August 2019, 02:44 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, its Monica Lewinsky's blue dress isn't it; the one he gave her. Someone should examine the painting to see if the artist included the stains.

I guess there is some kind of twisted "art" in that painting!
It is not the Lewinsky dress. It is a dress that Hillary wore. I think the pointing is also in reference to a common Hillary gesture.

It's not Bill in a dress. It is a merger of Bill and Hillary. Bill's head with Hillary's body.
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:31 PM   #549
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I would venture to guess that it's because it's already separate. All other drives (food, air, sleep, family) are present from birth, but sex drive may or may not develop along with the person as they mature.



Per the incels, fifteen years ago they found the asexuality forums. And they were pretty angry then.
As an Ace (well, demi) who only recently stumbled across AVEN a couple of years ago, that's hilarious. I can see how that might have made them even more mad.

"There's a sensible explanation for how I feel and a community of people to help me feel affirmed by it?! I'm outraged!"
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Old 15th August 2019, 07:24 PM   #550
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It felt more like "how dare you not want or care about the part of my life dominating it by being withheld? Just more women denying us sex."

W got the occasional medcel too, but they were far calmer.
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Old 16th August 2019, 02:45 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
as if saying "my wife is going to sneak into wherever you are hiding and snap your neck like a twig if you talk"... though it seems Epstein didn't get the message.
On a more serious note, Epstein very noticeably wasn't "talking", or willing to deal as far as I'm aware, and that tends to pour water on the theory that the first incident was a "warning" and his death was a consequence of failing to heed it.
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Old 16th August 2019, 05:03 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
In fact i am convinced that Killary personally snuck into the prison and intentionally killed him in such a way only to troll the armchair prison suicide experts and Killary hunters out there.

Her name's Hitlery. God, what do they teach kids nowadays?
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Old 16th August 2019, 05:09 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
The pig was 66 years old. So it seems to me that a broken neck could be quite feasible from a self-inflicted strangulation situation when you consider that our bones and joints become weaker and more brittle as we age, even more so if our health is poor. Particularly if he wrapped the sheet tight enough around his neck that might cause it to snap as the body naturally starts to desperately flail, fight, and spasm during those last gasps for air.

This is science. They have statistics on this for self-strangulation, and it is pretty rare. Now they are looking at how far he may have fallen.

Quite frankly, I would think you'd just kind of kneel down and get it to cut off your blood supply, and should be unconscious in less than 10s.
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Old 16th August 2019, 05:17 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
He should have bought an island in the Hebrides, for precision's sake.
No True Paedophile’s Island?
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Old 16th August 2019, 05:35 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
This is science. They have statistics on this for self-strangulation, and it is pretty rare. Now they are looking at how far he may have fallen.
The hyoid boneWP is often broken in cases of strangulation, but it's at the front, relatively feeble, and not attached directly to the other bones. Self-strangulation from the front explains it fracturing, but that would be highly unlikely to fracture vertebrae. If he fell or leant backwards he'd be unlikely to strangle at all.
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Old 16th August 2019, 01:50 PM   #556
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Quote:
NEW YORK — Jeffrey Epstein’s prison death has been ruled a suicide by hanging, the medical examiner’s office said Friday.

Epstein, 66, was found dead in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City on Aug. 10, touching off outrage and disbelief over how such a high-profile prisoner, known for socializing with powerful people including presidents Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, could have gone unwatched.
But broken bones in neck?! Such is impossible without hanging!
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Old 16th August 2019, 02:04 PM   #557
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The guards killed him and covered it up by admitting they were asleep when he killed himself and the warden was in on it. Now the question is, who paid them to do it?

I don't think or believe this, I'm just putting it out there so when it does show up as a crazy theory I can claim I said it first with documented proof.

Carry on.
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Old 16th August 2019, 03:51 PM   #558
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I applied Occam's Razor. For me, what I got was, Epstein committed suicide because guards were inept. A simple explanation.
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Old 16th August 2019, 06:24 PM   #559
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
But broken bones in neck?! Such is impossible without hanging!

The "broken bones in the neck" seem to have been one bone, the hyoid bone, which is small, fragile, and apparently not uncommonly broken in suicides by hanging.

One statistic I heard quoted on TV (I'm afraid I haven't looked for the source) suggested that the hyoid, while broken in about a third of murders by strangulation, was also broken in about 28% of suicides by hanging.

So, it being broken in Epstein's case really doesn't tell us all that much.
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Old 16th August 2019, 06:34 PM   #560
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Listen if you're gonna kill yourself snap your own neck with your own bare hands like real men do.
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