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Tags gun control issues , gun control laws , mass shootings , New Zealand incidents , New Zealand issues , shooting incidents

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Old 24th July 2019, 10:44 AM   #241
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Laws are ineffective against criminals. That's why we don't have any in the US.
I would argue that the purpose of laws is not to stop criminal behavior, but rather:

- to describe what is criminal behavior; and
- to describe what sanctions the state may impose on criminal behavior

Laws codify what society will and will not tolerate, both in its citizens and in its government. They are not intended, in and of themselves, to prevent intolerable behavior.
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Old 24th July 2019, 02:06 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
When my kids start a question with that, I always counter with "What if an asteroid crashes into earth right now?"
The Thompson Center Encore and Contender are not some sort of rare or obscure firearms. Although I have no idea how popular they may or may not be in NZ, they are owned by a considerable number of people in the USA and elsewhere. Many people including myself own a single frame and several barrels of different calibers. It is an inexpensive way of shooting calibers that vary from 17 to 73 caliber. Why is this so difficult to understand?

My question was a serious one asking for info on how a person would be able to buy ammo for a caliber that is listed as "various" or "n/a" in the event that NZ restricts ammo to the guns that are registered to a person.

Perhaps you would like another try at answering my question?
Quote:
Would the various barrels from .17 caliber to .73 caliber have to be registered as well?



Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Fewer gun deaths is my pick.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 4th August 2019 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 24th July 2019, 02:09 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And?
Really? Do I have to spell everything out in all of my posts? The USA has so much cargo and commerce crossing the border that only a fraction is thoroughly inspected. I'm suggesting that contraband gun parts could have been shipped to NZ. I don't know how well everything that enters NZ is inspected.
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Old 24th July 2019, 03:20 PM   #244
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https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/07/2...yback-efforts#

Quote:
US ‘fake news’ hits NZ gun buyback efforts

Misleading stories about New Zealand’s gun buyback have gone viral across gun lobby groups and conservative media in North America. Marc Daalder reports on the spread of what one expert has categorised as "fake news".

The story first started on Guns America Digest, the news arm of firearms auction site gunsamerica.com. Published on July 2, its headline proclaimed: “New Zealand Compliance Rate for Gun Buyback Program Stands at Less than 1 Percent.”

There was a good reason for the low rate of compliance: the buyback had yet to start.

The article cited reports from Stuff, Radio New Zealand, and the Washington Post that raised legitimate issues with the buyback process. The lack of a gun registry means police will have a tough time accurately assessing what percentage of now-illegal firearms have been turned in.

However, the conclusion the article drew – that there was a high rate of non-compliance - in the area of 99.3 to 99.7 percent - is equally unverifiable, particularly since the actual buyback didn’t begin until July 13, nearly a fortnight after it was first published.

Since then, more than 3200 now-banned firearms have been handed over to police, alongside an extra 7800 prohibited parts and accessories. The buyback has already dished out more than $6 million to the 2100 people that have taken part in police-managed collection events.

'Sophisticated' fake news effort

Of course, none of this context has been added to the Guns America piece, which went viral among right-wing Twitter and Facebook pages.

Dr Catherine Strong, a senior journalism lecturer at Massey University who studies social media and fake news, told Newsroom the stories appeared to her to be fake news and were particularly advanced.

“These ones on the gun control are quite insidious. They’re very sophisticated,” Strong said.

“They look like they’re a genuine news story and they even have links to a genuine source. But if you follow that link and read it, that’s not what that said at all.”

On July 8, American Military News ran a piece in its 'Controversy' section entitled “Less than 1 percent participate in New Zealand gun buyback”. The article used the same flawed logic as Guns America and was shared more than 7000 times, including by a major Canadian gun lobby group.

(After being notified by Newsroom about omissions in its article, American Military News significantly updated the piece. In an email, editor Laura Widener insisted: “It was not our intent, nor is it ever our intent to intentionally mislead people.”

To explain the error, Widener said, “New Zealand’s data on guns is obscure and even difficult for experts to estimate, as I assume you’ve also noticed in your research. We believe all estimates and solid data on the issue should be discussed in the effort of full disclosure.”)

The Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights shared the AMN article on both its Facebook and Twitter pages, leading to dozens of angry comments and more than 100 extra shares.

The greatest coup, however, came later on the same day when Reason, the US conservative magazine with a circulation of 50,000, ran an article stating: “Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme.” While Reason avoided citing the misleading 1 percent figure, it still failed to note that the buyback had yet to actually begin at the time of writing, which would contextualise any claim about non-compliance.

The Reason article went viral all over again, garnering hundreds of appreciative shares on Twitter and Facebook, including from high-profile US conservatives like Ryan Saavedra, a reporter at the right-wing Daily Wire who has more than half a million Twitter followers.

The entire saga has led to a complete misunderstanding of New Zealand’s gun culture and gun buyback among international firearm enthusiasts.
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Old 24th July 2019, 04:42 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Really? Do I have to spell everything out in all of my posts? The USA has so much cargo and commerce crossing the border that only a fraction is thoroughly inspected. I'm suggesting that contraband gun parts could have been shipped to NZ. I don't know how well everything that enters NZ is inspected.
Everything going to NZ is either by air or by sea. And there is certainly nowhere near the volume that transits to/from the USA.

FYI, it is very common for small ocean-going boats to make landfall on NZ shores before clearing NZ Customs. There's plenty of opportunity there for smuggling all sorts of things. For example, the French Secret Service used that route to smuggle in explosives used against the Rainbow Warrior in 1985.
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Old 24th July 2019, 08:13 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The Thompson Center Encore and Contender are not some sort of rare or obscure firearms. Although I have no idea how popular they may or may not be in NZ, they are owned by a considerable number of people in the USA and elsewhere. Many people including myself own a single frame and several barrels of different calibers. It is an inexpensive way of shooting calibers that vary from 17 to 73 caliber. Why is this so difficult to understand?
These appear to be available in NZ...

https://www.guncity.com/thompson-cen...-forend-243392

https://www.guncity.com/223-thompson...r-g2-23-230623

...however, like you, I have no idea how popular they are here; I had never heard of them before, and I don't now anyone who owns one.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
My question was a serious one asking for info on how a person would be able to buy ammo for a caliber that is listed as "various" or "n/a" in the event that NZ restricts ammo to the guns that are registered to a person.

Perhaps you would like another try at answering my question?
I already answered this.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=215

I should make it clear that currently for a Class A licence, you only need to produce a firearms licence to purchase ammunition.... you do not have to produce the weapon or prove that you own the firearm that ammunition is for.

However, a firearms register, ammunition restrictions and tougher licencing requirements are in the next tranche of changes to the Firearms Laws.
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Old 24th July 2019, 09:31 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I already answered this.
I know you did. My last post was a response to a troll.
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Old 25th July 2019, 12:02 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Really? Do I have to spell everything out in all of my posts? The USA has so much cargo and commerce crossing the border that only a fraction is thoroughly inspected. I'm suggesting that contraband gun parts could have been shipped to NZ. I don't know how well everything that enters NZ is inspected.
You are going to have to connect the dots for me as the above still doesn't answer the "and?"
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Old 25th July 2019, 04:54 AM   #249
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Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

https://www.reason.com/2019/07/08/no...-scheme/%3famp
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Old 25th July 2019, 05:07 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

https://www.reason.com/2019/07/08/no...-scheme/%3famp
Read cullenz post above.
Seriously.
You're making yourself look pretty dim.

(Note the date on your article)
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Old 25th July 2019, 06:00 AM   #251
Ranb
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You are going to have to connect the dots for me as the above still doesn't answer the "and?"
A previous post said it was not known where the weapons used in the attack were obtained from. I suggested they may be contraband rifles from outside of NZ. That is it. I don't know of any other way to paint this picture for you.
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Old 25th July 2019, 03:37 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

https://www.reason.com/2019/07/08/no...-scheme/%3famp

404 Error here.


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Old 25th July 2019, 04:36 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
404 Error here.


Norm
https://reason.com/2019/07/08/noncom...ontrol-scheme/
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Old 26th July 2019, 01:03 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Trolling noted. You know I was referring to new laws and restrictions.
So was I and I stick by it - fewer guns leads to fewer deaths. I even gave you examples.

What makes that trolling?

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
You don't like people who give straight answers?
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Old 26th July 2019, 01:13 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

https://www.reason.com/2019/07/08/no...-scheme/%3famp
Some right wing crap pile called Reason. Lipstick on a warthog. The American right has turned the Western world into a partisan lying **** fest with think tanks, lobby groups and media agencies spreading doubt for the profit interests of industries like the gun trade. Screw you campaigners.
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Old 26th July 2019, 06:02 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
So was I and I stick by it - fewer guns leads to fewer deaths. I even gave you examples.

What makes that trolling?
I asked a legitimate question about firearm tech and possible new regulations but you try to turn it into a juvenile query to mock me. I don't think you're that naive. You were trolling.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You don't like people who give straight answers?
So far you're resisting giving a straight answer to me that is actually on topic. Where did the asteroids come from?
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Old 26th July 2019, 06:55 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The Thompson Center Encore and Contender are not some sort of rare or obscure firearms. Although I have no idea how popular they may or may not be in NZ, they are owned by a considerable number of people in the USA and elsewhere. Many people including myself own a single frame and several barrels of different calibers. It is an inexpensive way of shooting calibers that vary from 17 to 73 caliber. Why is this so difficult to understand?

My question was a serious one asking for info on how a person would be able to buy ammo for a caliber that is listed as "various" or "n/a" in the event that NZ restricts ammo to the guns that are registered to a person.

I'm not familiar with NZ law, but I wonder if this is even an issue there.

What is even consider the regulated part of a gun in NZ? The multi-cal problem would not exist if the barreled receiver is considered a regulated/serialized part. Isn't that the case in other countries, like the UK? If each TC contender barreled receiver was considered a separate, serialized firearm, then there is no issue as you describe.

The US only treats the lower receiver as a regulated part, so you can have the situation of multiple non-regulated uppers or barreled receivers fitting the same lower. I'm not sure if that is the case in former commonwealth nations.
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Old 26th July 2019, 08:16 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm not familiar with NZ law, but I wonder if this is even an issue there....
That is why I was asking.

ETA; I checked here; http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p....html#DLM72918
I could not find anything about how a firearm is uniquely identified.

Last edited by Ranb; 26th July 2019 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:11 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I asked a legitimate question about firearm tech and possible new regulations but you try to turn it into a juvenile query to mock me. I don't think you're that naive. You were trolling.
I wasn't mocking you, believe it or not. As to the tech questions, I think they've been answered by others and I wouldn't try, because I don't give a toss one way or the other. They could ban guns entirely (even though I own some) and I couldn't care less.

I'm an archer.

I was just reiterating the obvious that any measure reducing guns in society is a good thing.
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Old 26th July 2019, 02:45 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I wasn't mocking you, believe it or not.
I do not.
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Old 26th July 2019, 03:09 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I wasn't mocking you, believe it or not.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 2nd August 2019 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 26th July 2019, 04:32 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Oh, it's my go to regardless of push back.

The post in question I thought was completely unambiguous when I even noted a reason why fewer guns is a good.

I'd say the vast majority of guns which are now illegal are owned by white men, which is precisely the demographic I'd like to see fewer guns in. Heck, I would have gone a step further and banned everything capable of semi-auto fire.
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Old 12th August 2019, 12:05 AM   #263
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New Zealanders surrender thousands of firearms five months after Christchurch massacre

Quote:
Thousands of firearms have been handed in and millions of dollars in compensation has been handed out during the first month of New Zealand's public gun collection events.

The events have been held in the wake of the Christchurch shootings.

In March, 51 people died and 49 were injured when a lone gunman stormed into two mosques and opened fire with semi-automatic weapons and shotguns.

Within weeks, New Zealand's Parliament voted for tough gun law reforms, including a ban on semi-automatic firearms and a buyback scheme.

One month ago, the first public gun collection event was held in Christchurch, just a few kilometres from where the massacres took place.

More than 70 similar events have been held around the country since.

New Zealand police told the ABC that in the buyback's first month, more than 8,000 weapons and 33,000 parts had been surrendered.

Almost $17 million in compensation has been paid.
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Old 12th August 2019, 01:05 AM   #264
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Yes the fantasies of the USAian gunfondlers have come to nothing. Surprising really.

Now hopefully this will inspire similar restrictions in the USA, before too many thousands are murdered.
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Old 12th August 2019, 07:34 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Yes the fantasies of the USAian gunfondlers have come to nothing. Surprising really.

Now hopefully this will inspire similar restrictions in the USA, before too many thousands are murdered.
Ha. That'll be the day.
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Old 12th August 2019, 08:16 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Read cullenz post above.
Seriously.
You're making yourself look pretty dim.

(Note the date on your article)
I'm noticing a lot of "conservatives" don't mind looking dim. I'm still trying to figure out if this is a tactical advantage.
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