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Old 19th July 2019, 09:52 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It was the procedure he saw in the movies.
I don't doubt it is the procedure where they work, I just doubt the claim of uniformity across all federal facilities.

Although, there were very clear signs about no guns at the places I have visited most recently.
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Old 19th July 2019, 11:25 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Anyone who wants to check, try the number, walk into your local IRS office. It's bizarre to see the foot stamping here when I have been in the local IRS office a number of times and got the one hour wait on the phone when trying to get an appointment.

You don't check in. The guard might help you get what you need but so do other people in the waiting room when they see you looking around.

It's not like walking into the courthouse.

No one searches you. Where does that nonsense come from?

It's laughable for people to insist the way they believe it should be must be the way it is.
Is anyone actually stamping there feet an insisting this is the way it must be other than you. I don't find your expertise particularly compelling. You have experience with one office it seems. My current employer has offices that require either a badge/key card or check in at the front desk to enter and there are offices were anyone can enter. I see no reason to think this might vary. Regardless, most folks are just saying things like, "Think its probably this way...." or "in my experience......". Your certainty seems unwarranted to me.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm still leaning toward there being no written policy for what to do when LEOs enter the building with guns.

Or, there might be a policy no one trained this guy on.
I suspect you are correct on the second point. There probably his a policy but this guy probably didn't know what it was. Its probably a policy nobody has read in 20 years though.

On the other hand, my experience in security, there was generally a policy about what to do about cops, generally cooperate but call your supervisor to let them deal with the problem if they were there on duty. If they were there on personal business, treat them like everyone else.

All that being said, the procedure Leftus describes does not match my experience in federal facilities.

Last edited by ahhell; 19th July 2019 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 19th July 2019, 11:45 AM   #163
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Not exactly germane to this case

The issue of LE firearms being stolen from marked units and UC and personal vehicles is a serious issue - locally, 11 July:

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...s-car-oakland/

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF) ó The FBIís San Francisco Division on Thursday offered a $5,000 reward for information leading to the recovery of several items including a semi-automatic rifle, a magazine and jacket with official FBI markings stolen from an agentís car.

The three items were taken from an FBI special agentís vehicle by an unknown suspect or suspects at approximately 8:40 p.m. on Wednesday night in the parking lot of the Hegenburger Shopping Center located at 8459 Edgewater Drive in Oakland.

The FBI is asking for the publicís assistance in locating and recovering the stolen items. The firearm was a Colt M-4 semi-automatic rifle with a magazine loaded with .45 caliber ammunition. The jacket was an official FBI raid jacket


And there's this:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...444305753.html

San Francisco police officials said a gun used in a gang-related homicide was stolen from a police officer's vehicle.

Three suspects in the deadly shooting reported in August were arrested this week, police said. The suspects have been identified as Erick Garcia Pineda, 18, Jesus Perez-Araujo, 24, and Daniel Cruz, 18. All three men are San Francisco residents.

On Aug. 15, police responded to a reported shooting at an apartment on the 3200 block of 26th Street in San Francisco's Mission District. When officers arrived they found 23-year-old Enrique Esquivel Jr. suffering from apparent gunshot wounds. He was transported to a hospital where he later succumbed to his injuries.

During the investigation, police discovered the weapon used in the homicide was a personal firearm registered to a San Francisco Police officer that was stolen from his personal vehicle on Aug. 12.


And this:

https://48hills.org/2017/07/111507/

Kate Steinle was killed two years ago in San Francisco after a gun stolen from a car was discharged on Pier 14, a popular tourist attraction. Homeless immigrant Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez handled a discarded bundle that contained the firearm, resulting in the unintentional shooting. A single bullet ricocheted off the ground, travelling 100 feet before striking Steinle.

The SIG Sauer handgun, which a court found had been left loaded and unsecured in a backpack under the seat of a vehicle parked in downtown San Francisco, was stolen during an auto break-in. It belonged to a Bureau of Land Management employee.


Aside from any question about IRS policy, securing a firearm in a vehicle in anything short of a vehicle mounted gun safe is a very bad idea.

https://www.shootingandsafety.com/be...safes-reviews/
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Old 19th July 2019, 01:08 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I have visited several federal facilities this summer where this was not the procedure. Are you certain it was the procedure at the facility that this thread is about? Why?

I visited the local Social Security office four years ago to get a replacement card, and I'm quite certain that I had no interaction whatsoever with the security guard, and I'm reasonably certain no one else did, either. He just sat at his desk looking bored the whole time I was there.
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Old 19th July 2019, 01:53 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I have visited several federal facilities this summer where this was not the procedure. Are you certain it was the procedure at the facility that this thread is about? Why?
IRS facilities?
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Old 19th July 2019, 01:59 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
IRS facilities?
Your post referenced Federal Buildings, which caught my attention.

Is the procedure you outlined just for IRS buildings and is it for every IRS office?
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:20 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Is anyone actually stamping there feet an insisting this is the way it must be other than you. I don't find your expertise particularly compelling. You have experience with one office it seems. My current employer has offices that require either a badge/key card or check in at the front desk to enter and there are offices were anyone can enter. I see no reason to think this might vary. Regardless, most folks are just saying things like, "Think its probably this way...." or "in my experience......". Your certainty seems unwarranted to me.

I suspect you are correct on the second point. There probably his a policy but this guy probably didn't know what it was. Its probably a policy nobody has read in 20 years though.

On the other hand, my experience in security, there was generally a policy about what to do about cops, generally cooperate but call your supervisor to let them deal with the problem if they were there on duty. If they were there on personal business, treat them like everyone else.

All that being said, the procedure Leftus describes does not match my experience in federal facilities.
You are welcome to believe I'm lying, I really don't care. And that's what it boils down to. Which is stupid given I have no reason whatsoever to make up a visit to the IRS office.

And of course some IRS offices are going to be less crowded or maybe if you call at exactly 2am Pacific Time the phone wait is shorter. But no one has said: "the office I went in", or "the wait time when I called."

No, they are just stamping their feet (metaphorically) and insisting they know yadda yadda when clearly they do not.

And I would have thought at least one thing was clear by now in the thread, that is the public IRS office is open to the public. It's not akin to a federal building full of federal employees. But that seems to be a hard concept to grasp.
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:31 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
I visited the local Social Security office four years ago to get a replacement card, and I'm quite certain that I had no interaction whatsoever with the security guard, and I'm reasonably certain no one else did, either. He just sat at his desk looking bored the whole time I was there.
Same here with the SS office in this city. The guard did help people who didn't know how to check in. Check-in was done through a computer kiosk.

I have been there twice.

Years ago I went when they were in a different building. We needed to get my son's name changed on his SS card. You had to go in person with your identifying documents. You went in, took a number and took a seat. I don't recall one way or the other if there was a guard there but there certainly wasn't a check point to get in. It had to have been after 911 because we needed the name changed in order to him a bank account in his name. The Patriot Act did that.
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:39 PM   #169
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It looks like they've improved access to appointments, you can get them online instead of on the phone.

https://www.irs.gov/help/contact-your-local-irs-office

It also looks like it is still a mess.

I put my zip code in and it said the closest office was in Seattle.

https://www.irs.gov/help/contact-your-local-irs-office

That's not the closest office.
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Old 19th July 2019, 03:43 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Your post referenced Federal Buildings, which caught my attention.

Is the procedure you outlined just for IRS buildings and is it for every IRS office?
I think it's SOP for every IRS building. It's certainly for the half-dozen or so I've visited. Oakland, Fresno, Austin, Covington, Memphis, and Ogden.

I want to say it's all fairly new for most of the TACs, since they went appointment only. There are some variances, like when there is an "Open House" event, but there still is a security checkpoint for those. Open house events are basically clearinghouse events with reps from various functions there to handle problems as quickly as possible.
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Old 19th July 2019, 03:47 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And I would have thought at least one thing was clear by now in the thread, that is the public IRS office is open to the public. It's not akin to a federal building full of federal employees. But that seems to be a hard concept to grasp.
There is still a security checkpoint and you still need a justification to be there. Since the IRS doesn't answer questions without an appointment, and the TACs don't provide as many services such as form availability anymore, it's not like a public library where you can walk in, stroll about, and then leave.

The TAC is a small portion of what is in that office. Odds are it's also housing revenue officers and agents. Perhaps the odd TIGTA or CI agent as well. There are more sensitive areas that the public, and that includes LEO's will not be granted access.
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Old 19th July 2019, 03:58 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No one checks in with the gawd damn guard.
Security varies by location. Only large IRS facilities are required to have a guard (not necessarily at a front desk). Others may or may not have guards. Many do not (at least that was the case a few years ago).

According to Internal Revenue Manual section 10.2.18.5, when there is a guard present at the front desk, the visitor must be recorded on a Visitor Access Register with information such as the person's name, date and time, reason for visit, etc. I would presume this is done by people checking in with the guard.

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part10/irm_10-002-018
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Old 19th July 2019, 04:10 PM   #173
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Here is a website that provides information about different IRS offices, including information about security:

https://www.irsofficesearch.org/irs-office-toledo/

For the Toldeo office it says:

"All public visitors are required to walk through multiple stages of electronic security equipment. Presenting a government issued valid ID card to the security personnel is required for identity and appointment verification."
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Old 19th July 2019, 04:34 PM   #174
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Seems like the wannabe cop Sherrif's deputy thought his uniform was enough to get him through federal security checkpoints with a displayed weapon.
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Old 19th July 2019, 06:00 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seems like the wannabe cop Sherrif's deputy thought his uniform was enough to get him through federal security checkpoints with a displayed weapon.
You do know that Sheriff's Deputies aren't "wannabe cops," they are actual cops.
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Old 19th July 2019, 07:32 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I think it's SOP for every IRS building. It's certainly for the half-dozen or so I've visited. Oakland, Fresno, Austin, Covington, Memphis, and Ogden.

I want to say it's all fairly new for most of the TACs, since they went appointment only. There are some variances, like when there is an "Open House" event, but there still is a security checkpoint for those. Open house events are basically clearinghouse events with reps from various functions there to handle problems as quickly as possible.
You're still making **** up.

They went to appointments only years ago.
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Old 19th July 2019, 07:40 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Security varies by location. Only large IRS facilities are required to have a guard (not necessarily at a front desk). Others may or may not have guards. Many do not (at least that was the case a few years ago).
I got no issue with this. Both the SS office and the IRS offices here have 'a' guard.

What they don't have in either of those buildings here is a front window or desk!

Quote:
According to Internal Revenue Manual section 10.2.18.5, when there is a guard present at the front desk, the visitor must be recorded on a Visitor Access Register with information such as the person's name, date and time, reason for visit, etc. I would presume this is done by people checking in with the guard.

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part10/irm_10-002-018

I did also need to go to the taxpayer assistance office. This is one step up, when you are appealing something. I think we waited in a separate room until they called us to meet with your case worker.

The guard there doesn't stand out in my memory but it makes sense there was one there somewhere. It was in the Seattle Courthouse building and I do remember the front desk. I'm pretty sure that wasn't a guard sitting behind it.

One thing about the courthouse is, everyone enters the building through a metal detector.


I might as well fess up here, I said something already in the 'what do you regret' thread. I have been fighting the IRS for 9 years now. The UW law school is assisting me. They are like the Innocence Project except it is about tax injustice, not criminal convictions.
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Old 19th July 2019, 07:47 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Here is a website that provides information about different IRS offices, including information about security:

https://www.irsofficesearch.org/irs-office-toledo/

For the Toldeo office it says:

"All public visitors are required to walk through multiple stages of electronic security equipment. Presenting a government issued valid ID card to the security personnel is required for identity and appointment verification."
Like the office in the Seattle Courthouse that building has:
Quote:
Other than IRS, other major tenants on this building are Fox Toledo, US Attorney Northern District of Ohio, Spengler Nathanson Attorneys, Four SeaGate Conference Center, Upton Appraisal Group, Marshall & Melhorn Attorneys etc.

And low and behold, IRS Ohio explains it.
Quote:
Caution: Many of our offices are located in Federal Office Buildings. These buildings may not allow visitors to bring in cell phones with camera capabilities.
As in, not all of the IRS offices are in Federal Office Buildings.
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Old 19th July 2019, 07:52 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seems like the wannabe cop Sherrif's deputy thought his uniform was enough to get him through federal security checkpoints with a displayed weapon.
Who is the "wannabe cop Sherrif's [sic] deputy"?
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Old 19th July 2019, 07:53 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You do know that Sheriff's Deputies aren't "wannabe cops," they are actual cops.
I think he's in the 'prove SG wrong' camp.


This thread is mind boggling.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:12 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
From the video, it looks like the cop walked in, was told to leave, and left.
But something happened between the deputy being told to leave and the deputy leaving. Even by the deputy's account, after the was told to leave he didn't leave but instead told the guard that he couldn't put his gun in the car and come back.

At some point somebody in the facility called the police and reported that there was a man with a gun who would not leave. We don't know who made that call (although I would guess that it was the guard or at the direction of the guard). After the guard drew his gun he tried to detain the deputy (prevent him from leaving), so the call that the deputy refused to leave must have been before that.

There was something that prompted that call. Somebody felt that the deputy was refusing to leave, to the extent that they called the police.

We don't know what happened. The news story only gives the deputy's side of the story. My guess is that they got the video came from the deputy or his attorney. The deputy doesn't say what happened that prompted the call. The video is missing this middle part. Something happened that we don't know about.

Whatever did happen, it doesn't look very good for the guard. If he wanted the deputy arrested for technically having a gun on federal property, the correct action would have been to wait for the police. The deputy wasn't going to disappear. He was a local cop. He was on video. He wouldn't be hard to find.

If the deputy had done something egregious that would have warranted immediate detainment at gunpoint, I would expect that the deputy would have been arrested or at least under investigation. Barring some conspiracy to cover up for the deputy, the lack of arrest or investigation of the deputy and the arrest of the guard implies that the actions by the guard were out of line.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:26 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Like the office in the Seattle Courthouse that building has:


And low and behold, IRS Ohio explains it.As in, not all of the IRS offices are in Federal Office Buildings.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

It appears the Toledo IRS office is not in a federal building. It appears to be in a private building, and the IRS leases space in that building.

If it were a federal building, depending on the policies of that building, a visitor may be prohibited from entering the building (let alone the IRS office) with a cell phone.

I don't see how that relates to the question of whether or not a visitor to the Toledo IRS office has to check in with the guard.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:36 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I got no issue with this. Both the SS office and the IRS offices here have 'a' guard.

What they don't have in either of those buildings here is a front window or desk!
Most do not, according to this 2009 "Inspection of Taxpayer Assistance Centers" report by the Inspector General.

https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/ierep...09ier003fr.pdf

But it appears that the Toledo office does.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I did also need to go to the taxpayer assistance office. This is one step up, when you are appealing something. I think we waited in a separate room until they called us to meet with your case worker.

The guard there doesn't stand out in my memory but it makes sense there was one there somewhere. It was in the Seattle Courthouse building and I do remember the front desk. I'm pretty sure that wasn't a guard sitting behind it.

One thing about the courthouse is, everyone enters the building through a metal detector.
That's one of the reasons different IRS offices have different security policies. They have different security needs.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:13 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

It appears the Toledo IRS office is not in a federal building. It appears to be in a private building, and the IRS leases space in that building.

If it were a federal building, depending on the policies of that building, a visitor may be prohibited from entering the building (let alone the IRS office) with a cell phone.

I don't see how that relates to the question of whether or not a visitor to the Toledo IRS office has to check in with the guard.
You are trying waaay to hard not to understand.

The point of my quote was to say, hey look, some buildings the IRS public offices are in have restricted entry BECAUSE OF THE OTHER OFFICES IN THE BUILDING, like the office in the Seattle courthouse.

But when that isn't the case, the iRS offices are open to the public, the guard is there, but isn't manning the entrance.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:22 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Most do not, according to this 2009 "Inspection of Taxpayer Assistance Centers" report by the Inspector General.

https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/ierep...09ier003fr.pdf

But it appears that the Toledo office does.
Use your head. Toledo is the news source. The article says "local office" not Toledo office.

But more importantly, wait for it:
If this happened in the main office, the cop would have already passed through the building entrance with his gun. And the IRS cop-wannabe security guard was not responsible to screen people entering the building.


Quote:
That's one of the reasons different IRS offices have different security policies. They have different security needs.
Well d'uh. This office had a waiting room guard, not some entrance screening metal detector/check your cell phone/ higher level security employee guard.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:26 PM   #186
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I think we are making progress.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:56 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Use your head. Toledo is the news source. The article says "local office" not Toledo office.
It also says "The deputy came to 4 Seagate to ask a question at the IRS office." That would be 4 Seagate, Toledo, Ohio. The location shown in the video. In Toledo. And in my link.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But more importantly, wait for it:
If this happened in the main office, the cop would have already passed through the building entrance with his gun. And the IRS cop-wannabe security guard was not responsible to screen people entering the building.


Well d'uh. This office had a waiting room guard, not some entrance screening metal detector/check your cell phone/ higher level security employee guard.
It is an IRS office in a privately-owned 10-story building. When the deputy entered the building, he was not on federal property until he entered the spaced leased by the IRS.

My guess would be that the building itself does not have a front security desk. I would very much doubt that there is an IRS or federal guard at the building entrance.

The security guard for the IRS would be responsible for guarding the entrance to and checking people into the IRS area of the building, not the whole building.
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Old 20th July 2019, 02:11 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
The issue of LE firearms being stolen from marked units and UC and personal vehicles is a serious issue - locally, 11 July: ..snip...
Given those thefts of what one would assume to be the more stringently guarded items of a police officers equipment it sounds like the guard was right by not assuming someone in a police uniform was an actual police officer and could enter the office with a lethal weapon.
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Old 20th July 2019, 06:38 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You're still making **** up.

They went to appointments only years ago.
You are the one who was spreading the fiction that the appointment line had an hour wait. This has never been true. And you have the nerve to say I'm making stuff up?

You have no idea what you are talking about and yet still try to speak with authority. I know, for a fact, there are Revenue Officers, Revenue Agents, someone from Criminal Investigations, Someone in Exam (audit), Fuel Compliance, Tax Fraud, and an Analyst.

The amount of staff not related to TAC services outnumber those providing service. This is why it closes for an hour for lunch.

But you know more about it than I do, right? Somehow. I mean, you've walked into an SSA office, so you know all about security at the IRS. How can I possibly compete, only working there for a decade.
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Old 20th July 2019, 12:50 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
It also says "The deputy came to 4 Seagate to ask a question at the IRS office." That would be 4 Seagate, Toledo, Ohio. The location shown in the video. In Toledo. And in my link.
You just went around the mulberry bush and tripped.

If it's just the IRS tax office, there is no guard or check-in at the door. The whole point of guarding the door is when OTHER OFFICES ARE IN THE SAME BUILDING.

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
It is an IRS office in a privately-owned 10-story building. When the deputy entered the building, he was not on federal property until he entered the spaced leased by the IRS.

My guess would be that the building itself does not have a front security desk. I would very much doubt that there is an IRS or federal guard at the building entrance.

The security guard for the IRS would be responsible for guarding the entrance to and checking people into the IRS area of the building, not the whole building.
In this whole exercise in futility you were still trying to claim one got screened going in any and every federal building?

We already showed that wasn't true.
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Old 20th July 2019, 01:00 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
You are the one who was spreading the fiction that the appointment line had an hour wait. This has never been true. And you have the nerve to say I'm making stuff up?
I said there was an hour wait on the phone, not in a line to get the appointment.

Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about and yet still try to speak with authority. I know, for a fact, there are Revenue Officers, Revenue Agents, someone from Criminal Investigations, Someone in Exam (audit), Fuel Compliance, Tax Fraud, and an Analyst.
Uh, and where are these people you know facts about?

Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
The amount of staff not related to TAC services outnumber those providing service. This is why it closes for an hour for lunch.

But you know more about it than I do, right? Somehow. I mean, you've walked into an SSA office, so you know all about security at the IRS. How can I possibly compete, only working there for a decade.
OMG.

I said I've been dealing with a tax issue for 9 years. Hopefully I'm about to win my case. I said I had been in the local IRS office multiple times, both earlier when you went in a got a number, and later when they said I needed an appointment.

I'm on SS. That is a completely different office. You walk in, sign in at the computer kiosk and wait until they call your number.

How is anyone supposed to have a discussion with you, or DA, when you can't keep the conversation going in a straight line?
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Old 20th July 2019, 01:09 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I think it's SOP for every IRS building.
DevilsAdvocate has presented some evidence that it can vary a bit.

Uniformity is just such a bitch on large scale that I doubted the IRS was actually pulling it off. Especially in leased office space. I am not at all questioning your experiences or honesty.
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Old 20th July 2019, 04:48 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You just went around the mulberry bush and tripped.

If it's just the IRS tax office, there is no guard or check-in at the door. The whole point of guarding the door is when OTHER OFFICES ARE IN THE SAME BUILDING.
For an IRS office in a private building, the guard for the IRS would be at the entrance to the IRS office. (Of course in other cases where the whole building is an IRS office, the entrance to the building and the IRS office are one and the same. In other cases, such as federal buildings, there may be a guard at the building entrance, and there may or may not be a separate guard at the IRS entrance.)

The guard for this IRS office would be at the entrance to the IRS office, not the building. The guard would presumably be at the location in the video where we see the deputy where he said he talked to the guard and where we first see the guard.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
In this whole exercise in futility you were still trying to claim one got screened going in any and every federal building?

We already showed that wasn't true.
I have never tried to claim one got screened going in any and every federal building. To the contrary, I have claimed and presented evidence that security varies significantly by location.

The original question was whether a person has to check in with the guard (at this location), not whether a person has to check in with a guard at any location.
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Old 20th July 2019, 05:29 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I said there was an hour wait on the phone, not in a line to get the appointment.
It's still not an hour to get an appointment. Sorry you can't figure out that when I said "appointment line" was really the "appointment phone line"

It's never been an hour on that line.

Quote:
Uh, and where are these people you know facts about?
Well, it's the weekend so they are probably at home. On the other hand, how do I know who works out of that office, well, I have access to an internal directory.

Just because you don't know, doesn't make it not true. Just because you assume I don't know, doesn't make it not true.

Quote:
I said I've been dealing with a tax issue for 9 years. Hopefully I'm about to win my case. I said I had been in the local IRS office multiple times, both earlier when you went in a got a number, and later when they said I needed an appointment.
9 years, 1 issue, 1 office. Damn, you are a pro. But I've still got more time in an IRS office this month than you on your poorly managed issue. And I've been to more facilities than you.

BTW, I don't believe Trump when he says his taxes are still under audit, and I don't buy your single issue going nine years now. Managers are measured on aged cases, and this would be at the top of a number of lists. And I don't think your tax issue would be nearly as complicated as Trump's returns.

Quote:
How is anyone supposed to have a discussion with you, or DA, when you can't keep the conversation going in a straight line?
How is anyone supposed to have a discussion with you, when you can't not lie about things (an hour to make an appointment?). And when called out on it, you misread something so badly, I think it might be intentional.
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Old 20th July 2019, 07:32 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
For an IRS office in a private building, the guard for the IRS would be at the entrance to the IRS office.
The guard doesn't guard the entrance. He hangs around the waiting room.

Why is that so difficult?

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I have never tried to claim one got screened going in any and every federal building. To the contrary, I have claimed and presented evidence that security varies significantly by location.
OK, put two and two together then. The answer to your next question is...

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
The original question was whether a person has to check in with the guard (at this location), not whether a person has to check in with a guard at any location.
And the answer is, a person does not need to check in at this particular IRS office. Obviously the guard saw the weapon which was after all, in plain sight.

You have no evidence people are screened entering this office.

It is not the norm to screen people coming by the local IRS public office.
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Old 20th July 2019, 07:34 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
It's still not an hour to get an appointment. Sorry you can't figure out that when I said "appointment line" was really the "appointment phone line"

It's never been an hour on that line.



Well, it's the weekend so they are probably at home. On the other hand, how do I know who works out of that office, well, I have access to an internal directory.

Just because you don't know, doesn't make it not true. Just because you assume I don't know, doesn't make it not true.



9 years, 1 issue, 1 office. Damn, you are a pro. But I've still got more time in an IRS office this month than you on your poorly managed issue. And I've been to more facilities than you.

BTW, I don't believe Trump when he says his taxes are still under audit, and I don't buy your single issue going nine years now. Managers are measured on aged cases, and this would be at the top of a number of lists. And I don't think your tax issue would be nearly as complicated as Trump's returns.



How is anyone supposed to have a discussion with you, when you can't not lie about things (an hour to make an appointment?). And when called out on it, you misread something so badly, I think it might be intentional.
Just so you don't wait for an answer, I'm done with this discussion because it doesn't move forward.
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Old 20th July 2019, 08:04 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The guard doesn't guard the entrance. He hangs around the waiting room.

Why is that so difficult?

OK, put two and two together then. The answer to your next question is...

And the answer is, a person does not need to check in at this particular IRS office. Obviously the guard saw the weapon which was after all, in plain sight.

You have no evidence people are screened entering this office.

It is not the norm to screen people coming by the local IRS public office.
All this arguing could have been sorted with actual information.

From the IRS site for Toledo.

Security

All public visitors are required to walk through multiple stages of electronic security equipment. Presenting a government issued valid ID card to the security personnel is required for identity and appointment verification.

Appointment

All public visitors are required to take appointments prior to visiting, by calling the number provided above.

ETA : from FAQ and Q&A sections, some centres do allow walk-in “appointments”, i.e., walk in, take a ticket and wait for your “appointment”.
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Old 20th July 2019, 08:09 PM   #198
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Seems like real cop, instead of a jerk who thinks putting on a badge and a gun makes him police, would have figured that out ahead of time. Seems like pretty basic police work, for non-wannabes.
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Old 20th July 2019, 10:00 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
All this arguing could have been sorted with actual information.
I posted that back on post #173.

It was that site, in part, on which I based my reply to the original question about whether people need to check in with the guard.
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Old 20th July 2019, 10:34 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I posted that back on post #173.

It was that site, in part, on which I based my reply to the original question about whether people need to check in with the guard.
oops. Sorry, I must have missed it (I guess I must have skimmed a little too fast)
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