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Old 23rd July 2019, 07:17 AM   #241
BStrong
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
3 people have died due to accidents whilst at work in my company this year. No police have died in a similar timeframe. Where's my medal?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/20...rnd/index.html

(CNN) -- We're 27 weeks into 2019, and 24 officers have been shot and killed in the line of duty across the country.

That's a decline from last year. Firearm-related deaths for officers are fewer than what they were at this time in 2018, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

But to those affected, it's little comfort.

"Even one death is too many," fund spokesman Steve Groeninger said. "Every number represents a shattered family, a shattered department and a community that is grieving."

Here's a list of the officers who have been gunned down while on duty in the United States in 2019.

The parameters CNN followed in this count are:
The officer was fatally shot this year.
The officer was on duty at the time of the shooting.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 09:03 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/20...rnd/index.html

(CNN) -- We're 27 weeks into 2019, and 24 officers have been shot and killed in the line of duty across the country.

That's a decline from last year. Firearm-related deaths for officers are fewer than what they were at this time in 2018, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

But to those affected, it's little comfort.

"Even one death is too many," fund spokesman Steve Groeninger said. "Every number represents a shattered family, a shattered department and a community that is grieving."

Here's a list of the officers who have been gunned down while on duty in the United States in 2019.

The parameters CNN followed in this count are:
The officer was fatally shot this year.
The officer was on duty at the time of the shooting.
That's tragic but, as I wrote, no police officer has died in that time. You're ignoring a pertinent piece of information.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 11:09 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
The guard was put in an extremely difficult position all because this deputy was expecting to be treated in a special and privileged manner from the moment he decided to enter the building.
Like I stated in a previous post - I would have immediately suspended the cop and recommended that he be charged under the RCMP Code of Conduct if he was working under my command. Police officers like this jerk give the entire profession a bad reputation.

I think the problem is that many see police officers as heroes rather than as ordinary people with a pretty easy job that is far less dangerous than many other jobs. As a matter of fact - the most recent info I could find on the most dangerous jobs in the United States reveal that policing is 18th on the list.
https://www.ajc.com/news/world/these...JG6m0P4SCrXuN/
Most dangerous professions by otj homicide:

https://www.vox.com/2014/12/2/731382...murder-violent

Cops and security guards are two of the occupations that have suffered the most murders in the past few years. That's not much of a surprise all these people are tasked with protecting others. But mixed in this list are a few professions that may sound quite a bit safer retail sales workers and waitresses, for example.

Why? According to OSHA, exchanging money with the public, working late at night, working in dangerous neighborhoods, and working where alcohol is sold are all risk factors for workplace violence. And several (or even all) of those factors apply to many of the jobs on this list consider the convenience store clerks, taxi drivers, and bartenders working late at night with lots of cash and intoxicated clientele, and those jobs suddenly seem much more dangerous. Add in the fact that there are also just a lot of cashiers, waiters, and taxi drivers, and the high numbers make even more sense.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 12:43 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Most dangerous professions by otj homicide:

https://www.vox.com/2014/12/2/731382...murder-violent

Cops and security guards are two of the occupations that have suffered the most murders in the past few years. That's not much of a surprise all these people are tasked with protecting others. But mixed in this list are a few professions that may sound quite a bit safer retail sales workers and waitresses, for example.

Why? According to OSHA, exchanging money with the public, working late at night, working in dangerous neighborhoods, and working where alcohol is sold are all risk factors for workplace violence. And several (or even all) of those factors apply to many of the jobs on this list consider the convenience store clerks, taxi drivers, and bartenders working late at night with lots of cash and intoxicated clientele, and those jobs suddenly seem much more dangerous. Add in the fact that there are also just a lot of cashiers, waiters, and taxi drivers, and the high numbers make even more sense.
Which is why the security guard should get treated just like a cop when he pulls a gun on someone. Hell cops can kill security guards with impunity why shouldn't the security guards get to defend themselves?
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Old 23rd July 2019, 04:11 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
And here is subsection d.

Quote:
(d)Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1)the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
He was on patrol, available for dispatch. Anything else?
I am not a lawyer, but I suspect that 'official duties' is not the same as being 'on duty'. If he entered the building to arrest someone, or in response to an incident that would be official duty. Dealing with his personal tax is private business and not official duty. I stand by my original argument in defence of the security guard.

If this had been a member of the public and the security guard a LEO there was a very high chance that moving his hand towards his belt would have got him shot. The security guard showed more restraint than many police officers would have done.

The local police arresting the security guard is the sort of 'gang' behaviour that should be discouraged, backing up their own guy rather than arresting the deputy, if any civilian (and in this situation the deputy was a civilian) had brought a forearm into a federal office refused to leave then refused to be detained pending the arrival of police he would have been arrested. The deputy broke federal law the security officer acted within the law. We will have to await the court case, but I suspect the security guard will get off if gets that far.

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Old 24th July 2019, 11:15 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course security guards are also a high risk profession and has a very high risk of homocide. But of course when they get killed by cops it is all good because it was an honest mistake by those heroic cops who risk their lives.

http://snallabolaget.com/us-more-sec...illed-on-duty/

Which is why they clearly need to be treated like cops when they pull their guns for no reason and kill someone with out good reason. It is needed to keep the people safe.
Not sure what you are on about here. Neither security guards nor cops have a particularly high risk of death or injury while on the job.

The security guard had a job to do. He has the moral and legal responsibility to use lethal force if he believes he is saving himself - or others - from grievous bodily harm. Just like a cop.
He pulled his gun but did not shoot it. Since I wasn't there and I do not know his post orders or what his training was or what he was thinking at the time - I will not comment on his decision to pull his firearm.

I do stand behind my statement that the cop was an ass and totally to blame for the entire debacle because he had no reason not to remove himself and his firearm from the building and come back at a later time while not in uniform and not packing a firearm.
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Old 24th July 2019, 11:17 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I am not a lawyer, but I suspect that 'official duties' is not the same as being 'on duty'. If he entered the building to arrest someone, or in response to an incident that would be official duty. Dealing with his personal tax is private business and not official duty. I stand by my original argument in defence of the security guard.

If this had been a member of the public and the security guard a LEO there was a very high chance that moving his hand towards his belt would have got him shot. The security guard showed more restraint than many police officers would have done.

The local police arresting the security guard is the sort of 'gang' behaviour that should be discouraged, backing up their own guy rather than arresting the deputy, if any civilian (and in this situation the deputy was a civilian) had brought a forearm into a federal office refused to leave then refused to be detained pending the arrival of police he would have been arrested. The deputy broke federal law the security officer acted within the law. We will have to await the court case, but I suspect the security guard will get off if gets that far.

^This^
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Old 24th July 2019, 11:35 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Not sure what you are on about here. Neither security guards nor cops have a particularly high risk of death or injury while on the job.
There are numerous times where cops shot and killed security guards successfully doing their job. That is of course all good.

It is simply the huge double standard that is there all the time. Cops can threaten anyone they want with a gun and there is no consequence because of the thin blue line and all that jazz but someone gets a bit worried that the cops are violent like they have shown themselves to be repeatedly and it is totally unacceptable.
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Old 24th July 2019, 11:42 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
There are numerous times where cops shot and killed security guards successfully doing their job. That is of course all good.

It is simply the huge double standard that is there all the time. Cops can threaten anyone they want with a gun and there is no consequence because of the thin blue line and all that jazz but someone gets a bit worried that the cops are violent like they have shown themselves to be repeatedly and it is totally unacceptable.
Ah...I see. Thank you for clarifying this.

I do agree with your point. There is a terrible double standard because the US has decided to portray cops as some sort of heroic figure whose intelligence, skill, and integrity is far greater than the people that they are supposed to be serving. Total lie of course - but the movies and cop shows make billions selling that lie.
I remember when I was a cop and we used to laugh about our reasons for becoming a cop. "Too lazy to work and too chicken to steal so I became a cop" was always a good one.
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Last edited by rockinkt; 24th July 2019 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 24th July 2019, 11:48 AM   #250
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Oops. A bit harsh so I removed my post.
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt

Last edited by rockinkt; 24th July 2019 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 24th July 2019, 11:58 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Depends on what the guard's job is. Plus as we had evidenced above lots of police equipment is stolen so the guard couldn't be sure this was a genuine police officer. Perhaps the guard thought he seemed suspicious, and again given the number of gun related homicides in the USA and the mass killings isn't it better if a guard errs on the precautionary side?
Police carry picture ID.

By the time the guard talks to his lawyer, I'm sure that will work its way into the story.
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Old 24th July 2019, 12:04 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Thanks for taking the time to put that together. Assuming your reconstruction is accurate at worse we have a guard who wasn't adequately trained. I'm really not trying to be contrary for the sake of it but I'm still not seeing an issue with how the guard acted, I do see an issue with how the police officer acted.

Finding this interesting on a "meta" level as also trying to understand why we have such a spectrum of responses.
Somebody should be responsible for dangerously pulling that gun out. And even if he thought the real cop was going for his gun, once the cop was leaving it was not a life threatening situation requiring that gun stay out and aimed.

You can put that on the employer for lack of training. But any gun owner or bearer has responsibility to properly handle a weapon in their possession.
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Old 24th July 2019, 12:19 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
As I suspected (and thanks for the sleuthing) the deputy was being an entitled ******* and seemed to be considering going for his going/taser. He didn't "just leave".

That would take it way downfield on the "feared for my life" defence so often used by LEO's.

I'm back on the side of the guard.
The only reason the cop would consider pulling a taser or his gun is if he thought the guard might pull a weapon on the cop.

I do think cops get entitled-y in these situations. I would get entitled-y myself if I knew another guard had not blocked my entrance in the past.

But at the point the cop was leaving, you have the guard with his gun out and the cop's gun and tasers are holstered. There was no reason to dangerously chase the cop out with the gun pointed at him.


So here's another scenario, why, if someone is arguing with you about entering an office, is that cause to arrest the person? That's where this escalated.

So how entitled-y was that guard when an argument he was going to win anyway escalated to, 'I'm going to arrest you for arguing with me?, (No one would give the cop said phone number if he forced his way in and surely the cop would have known that.)
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Old 24th July 2019, 12:27 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea he is a security guard and as such held to vastly higher standards than a cop.
I said nothing of the kind. Did the cop wave his gun around?

I'm not sure this matches any scenarios when cops have wrongly killed a security guard.


You guys do remember I'm one of the loudest people in this forum condemning cops for treating contempt of cop as a crime, right? I want credit for being fair and balanced next time I'm arguing about an unlawful killing or arrest for contempt of cop.
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Old 24th July 2019, 05:51 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
It's still not permitted. He doesn't have a business purpose for being in a secured area. Simply put, he is not on patrol inside an IRS facility as he doesn't have the jurisdiction. He does not patrol the IRS office. It's not his beat.
This is not what 18 USC says. What section of law are you looking at?
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Old 24th July 2019, 05:54 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think the guard overreacted, possibly due to poor training. The deputy was in the wrong. Craig4's argument that the deputy was there on official business is of course absurd.
You are not correct nor do you know what you are talking about. 18 USC is clear. He was on duty, available for dispatch. I think we can assume he was in his assigned district and within policy for running errands on duty being as we've heard nothing about his not being in duty status. It is obvious that he was on duty as he returned with backup to make a lawful arrest.
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Old 24th July 2019, 07:13 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
....
I do stand behind my statement that the cop was an ass and totally to blame for the entire debacle because he had no reason not to remove himself and his firearm from the building and come back at a later time while not in uniform and not packing a firearm.
What you should really be saying if you look at the facts, said cop didn't remove his ass fast enough.
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Old 27th July 2019, 01:09 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You are incorrect. He was on duty and available for dispatch. You know he was outside of his patrol district how?
Um, because a federal location is not patrolled by local cops. Even if his patrol area surrounded the building, the area inside the property leased by the GSA is federal property and not state / county enforced land.
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Old 27th July 2019, 01:23 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
The police arrived. The police told the guard, You know hes a uniformed deputy sheriff, right? We can go anywhere in this building we want.
I think that's a problem. No, they can't. There are places in my building I'm not permitted to go and I've been vetted and carry a middling security clearance. That attitude, if shared by the deputy, was part of the problem.
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Old 27th July 2019, 01:26 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You are not correct nor do you know what you are talking about. 18 USC is clear. He was on duty, available for dispatch. I think we can assume he was in his assigned district and within policy for running errands on duty being as we've heard nothing about his not being in duty status. It is obvious that he was on duty as he returned with backup to make a lawful arrest.
He never left the lobby. The cops that showed up were called by an IRS employee. He didn't radio in for backup. Again, they did not charge the guard with kidnapping or false arrest. Perhaps there is a reason for that.
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Old 28th July 2019, 07:09 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Um, because a federal location is not patrolled by local cops. Even if his patrol area surrounded the building, the area inside the property leased by the GSA is federal property and not state / county enforced land.
What section of law are you looking at?
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Old 28th July 2019, 07:22 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Stupid situation

But why would anyone go to a branch to get a phone number?

I'm assuming the IRS has a website and an enquiry phone number
Ever try to call the IRS?
"Your wait time is one hour."
He could have easily been looking for some more direct number. And not everything is online. For example if you need to resolve an issue you may need to talk to a person

Those offices are typically crowded so some people need to go there.

But is why he was there relevant?

Just as an aside, I had reason to call the IRS only a few days ago.

I got an 800 number to the local branch office from the IRS website and called them.

My wait time after working my way through the phone tree was nil. I was connected to a representative as soon as the connection started ringing. My question was answered promptly and simply.

This was approx. 10:00 am Wednesday morning.

An exception to the stereotype?

Perhaps. But there it is.
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Old 29th July 2019, 04:51 AM   #263
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Old 1st August 2019, 01:43 AM   #264
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We have bodycam footage now:
https://www.toledoblade.com/local/po...es/20190724121

Im not sure whos on the right in this case, I tend to side with the security guard, but Im not sure he should have drawn the gun or let the cop go. But the cop seemed to act like an ass, insisting for so long when he wasnt allowed in there with a gun. “I felt like he didn’t even see the uniform" he says. Well, its not like the uniform gave him any special rights in that situation. Perhaps cops are too used to be shown too much deference when in uniform, due to their trigger happy ways and their unaccountability...

Also, Im surprised a policeman can run personal errands while at his job. Apart from lunchbreaks etc. hows that allowed?
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Old 1st August 2019, 02:17 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
We have bodycam footage now:
https://www.toledoblade.com/local/po...es/20190724121

Im not sure whos on the right in this case
I am

Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
I tend to side with the security guard
I tend to side with Real Cop

Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
but Im not sure he should have drawn the gun or let the cop go.
Real Cop was leaving the building (i.e. complying with Wannabe Mall Cop's request) when the Wannabe Mall Cop drew down in him.

Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
But the cop seemed to act like an ass, insisting for so long when he wasnt allowed in there with a gun. I felt like he didnt even see the uniform" he says. Well, its not like the uniform gave him any special rights in that situation. Perhaps cops are too used to be shown too much deference when in uniform, due to their trigger happy ways and their unaccountability...
Its worth noting that the 911 call made no mention that the "man in the office with a gun who was refusing to leave" was a police deputy, Now, I wonder why that is?

Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
Also, Im surprised a policeman can run personal errands while at his job. Apart from lunchbreaks etc. hows that allowed?
Perhaps he was running an errand while he was on a break?

A policeman, in uniform during his duty shift, is on duty at all times, even when taking a break. If a Policeman is on his lunch break in the donut shop, and the bodega across the road suffers an armed hold-up, he's not going to say "Oh sorry, I'm on my lunch break. Someone else will have to deal with that"

Wannabe Mall Cop has been fired and charged over the incident. Real Cop has not.

Nuff said.
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Old 1st August 2019, 03:46 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
[...]
The security guard is equally real as the cop. I dont know why you need to stress the reality of one above the other. In this particular case the security guard was entitled to secure the premises and have a gun, the policeman didnt, so the security guard was more "real" in a way.

As for why he drew the gun, perhaps the guard had been instructed to detain those who came armed and became "unruly", so as to avoid letting them endanger others afterwards or something. Well see how the lawsuit goes.

Why the call made no mention that the "man in the office with a gun who was refusing to leave" was a police deputy, I dont know, the person who made the call wasnt the sec. guard anyway. Perhaps because it was deemed irrelevant. As it was, legally.

Regarding running errands while at break, they must get very long lunch breaks. Or perhaps its the unaccountability thing again, they get to do whatever they want, unlike other workers.
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Old 1st August 2019, 06:55 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How does this relate to things like deductions? Ie in america certain things like mortgage interest and charitable giving are deductible so it is as if you never earned that money and are paying it with pre tax dollars. This is to incentivise certain behaviors and is not unreasonable though certainly abused by special interests
Information Analyst hasn't pointed out (I'm a page or two behind) that Brits in regular employment do not usually fill out tax returns. It's all done by the employer. The employee never sees the gross salary.

PAYE is Pay As You Earn (Income Tax)
MIRAS was Mortgage Income tax Relief At Source
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Old 1st August 2019, 07:24 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
Information Analyst hasn't pointed out (I'm a page or two behind) that Brits in regular employment do not usually fill out tax returns. It's all done by the employer. The employee never sees the gross salary.
Most jobs in the US are similar. Your employer files paperwork and pays your tax obligation throughout the year. You only see your net pay after taxes.

However, at the end of the year, you have some responsibilities of your own. Your taxable income is subject to a complex array of exceptions and qualifiers. So your employer's tax withholding may not actually be enough. Or it may be too much. This is especially true if you have other sources of income besides your paycheck. It's up to you to keep track of all of this, file a comprehensive report to the government, and either make up the shortfall in your payroll deductions, or else notify the government that you've overpaid and by how much so that they can refund the surplus.

Some people prefer to pay nothing at all during the year, and settle up once on tax day. This avoids the issue of giving the government what is essentially an interest-free loan of your money (assuming you expect a refund of some amount).

Some states have recently instituted fines for people who choose not to pay over the course of the year. California, for example, really needs those interest-free loans.
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Old 1st August 2019, 02:07 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Some people prefer to pay nothing at all during the year, and settle up once on tax day. This avoids the issue of giving the government what is essentially an interest-free loan of your money (assuming you expect a refund of some amount).
They might prefer it, but they can't really do it. I don't think that you can legally work for an employer without them withholding at least some federal income tax from you, along with FICA and medicare. If you did this with self-employment income for federal, you'd also get hit with a penalty. You have to make quarterly estimated filings, and if you are off by more than 10% they ding you with penalty charges for under-estimating. Same for Illinois state income tax. 4% of your estimated earnings is paid quarterly, or they penalize you at filing time.

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Old 1st August 2019, 04:30 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
As for why he drew the gun, perhaps the guard had been instructed to detain those who came armed and became "unruly", so as to avoid letting them endanger others afterwards or something. Well see how the lawsuit goes.
You clearly didn't bother to watch any of the videos.

The guard told the cops why he allegedly pulled his gun on the cop. He claimed that the cop had his hand on his gun (he didn't, it was his taser and it wasn't in a draw position) and his belt (he did, along with the taser, it seemed to be a relaxed hand on hip type position.) It's also clear that the cop was walking out of the office and was not a threat when the gun was pointed at him.

While the major parts of the Guard's story line up with the Deputy's (that he said he was there on personal business, that he said he could leave the gun in the car and that he asked if they had a gun safe) the whole part for why he draw his weapon doesn't match the security video.
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Old 1st August 2019, 06:14 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You clearly didn't bother to watch any of the videos.

The guard told the cops why he allegedly pulled his gun on the cop. He claimed that the cop had his hand on his gun (he didn't, it was his taser and it wasn't in a draw position) and his belt (he did, along with the taser, it seemed to be a relaxed hand on hip type position.) It's also clear that the cop was walking out of the office and was not a threat when the gun was pointed at him.

While the major parts of the Guard's story line up with the Deputy's (that he said he was there on personal business, that he said he could leave the gun in the car and that he asked if they had a gun safe) the whole part for why he draw his weapon doesn't match the security video.
I can't imagine that his rules were different from mine. Basically, if you're on duty (and we need not be detained further by suggestions he was not), your weapon is on your person, unless you are in a detention facility or being given emergency medical care. In such cases you lock the weapon in approved containers or another officer takes charge of it. You are never allowed to leave your sidearm in your car.
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Old 1st August 2019, 11:30 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Just as an aside, I had reason to call the IRS only a few days ago.

I got an 800 number to the local branch office from the IRS website and called them.

My wait time after working my way through the phone tree was nil. I was connected to a representative as soon as the connection started ringing. My question was answered promptly and simply.

This was approx. 10:00 am Wednesday morning.

An exception to the stereotype?

Perhaps. But there it is.
I'm glad to hear things have changed.
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Old 1st August 2019, 11:31 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
...

Also, Im surprised a policeman can run personal errands while at his job. Apart from lunchbreaks etc. hows that allowed?
Are you serious? Have you never run an errand on a lunch break?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 12:04 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Are you serious? Have you never run an errand on a lunch break?
I'm finding some of the incredulity in this thread utterly bizarre.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 01:21 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
We have bodycam footage now:
https://www.toledoblade.com/local/po...es/20190724121

Im not sure whos on the right in this case, I tend to side with the security guard, but Im not sure he should have drawn the gun or let the cop go. But the cop seemed to act like an ass, insisting for so long when he wasnt allowed in there with a gun. I felt like he didnt even see the uniform" he says. Well, its not like the uniform gave him any special rights in that situation. Perhaps cops are too used to be shown too much deference when in uniform, due to their trigger happy ways and their unaccountability...

Also, Im surprised a policeman can run personal errands while at his job. Apart from lunchbreaks etc. hows that allowed?
Everything about this post is wrong. He was a commissioned officer, on duty, available for dispatch. If his stop was out of policy, I kind of think we'd have heard about it by now. Title 18 USC is completely clear that a state, local, federal or tribal commissioned officer may be armed on in federal facilities.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 12:50 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Everything about this post is wrong. He was a commissioned officer, on duty, available for dispatch. If his stop was out of policy, I kind of think we'd have heard about it by now. Title 18 USC is completely clear that a state, local, federal or tribal commissioned officer may be armed on in federal facilities.
It seems that you are overlooking the "lawful performance of official duties" part.

He was there on a personal errand, not as a part of his lawful performance of official duties.

I think the guard was right to not let him in with his gun, but oh so very wrong to pull his own gun. A small right does not make up for a huge wrong.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 03:39 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It seems that you are overlooking the "lawful performance of official duties" part.



He was there on a personal errand, not as a part of his lawful performance of official duties.



I think the guard was right to not let him in with his gun, but oh so very wrong to pull his own gun. A small right does not make up for a huge wrong.
"HI! I'm here in your home out of personal curiosity, but I'm in uniform and available for dispatch, so it's official and you have to let me stay until at least the end of my shift."

- Deputy Craig4, probably
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Old 3rd August 2019, 12:33 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It seems that you are overlooking the "lawful performance of official duties" part.

He was there on a personal errand, not as a part of his lawful performance of official duties.

I think the guard was right to not let him in with his gun, but oh so very wrong to pull his own gun. A small right does not make up for a huge wrong.
He was on the clock and available for dispatch. This status requires that he be armed.

ETA: Because he's available for dispatch, he does not get a "lunch break" and under the FLSA is never off duty during his shift. He may stop to eat but his meal time is compensated because it can be interrupted by being dispatched or if he observed a crime while eating.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 12:35 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"HI! I'm here in your home out of personal curiosity, but I'm in uniform and available for dispatch, so it's official and you have to let me stay until at least the end of my shift."

- Deputy Craig4, probably
Nice strawman. Maybe read up on the difference between a public office and private home. You still don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 06:45 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It seems that you are overlooking the "lawful performance of official duties" part.

He was there on a personal errand, not as a part of his lawful performance of official duties.

I think the guard was right to not let him in with his gun, but oh so very wrong to pull his own gun. A small right does not make up for a huge wrong.
I don't know that he can't do a personal errand while he's on duty.

Department regulations, perhaps?

Or, possibly, department regulations allow for it.

Do you have any cites to establish which is the case?
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