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Old 8th August 2019, 03:12 PM   #1
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Teenage 'Killers' found dead.

The bodies of two suspected teenage killers, have been found dead in the swampy wilds of British Columbia, Canada.

They are believed to have callously murdered a back-packing couple and a 64-year-old botanist.

A brief timeline here shows:

Quote:
July 25th – Manitoba Mounties confirm two sightings of Schmegelsky and McLeod in the Gillam area. They say they are investigating a photograph of Nazi paraphernalia allegedly sent by Schmegelsky to another user on a video-game network. Schmegelsky is also pictured in military fatigues brandishing an airsoft rifle and wearing a gas mask.

July 28th – Police descend on York Landing, an isolated community southwest of Gillam, after it’s reported the suspects were seen at the local dump.

August 6th – Police say they have found several items linked to Schmegelsky and McLeod on the shore of the Nelson River in northern Manitoba. The items were found 9km from the vehicle they were driving.

August 7th – Police find the bodies of McLeod and Schmegelsky in dense brush in northern Manitoba. Assistant commissioner Jane MacLatchy says the bodies were found near the shoreline of the Nelson River, 2000km from where the original incident took place on July 15th.
The Irish Times article appears to be suggesting they were some kind of right-wing 'survivalists' (of the Timothy McVeigh mode?).

However, it's hard to understand why the gunned down that young couple or the older man.

What makes a couple of teenagers go out on such a killing spree?

Looks like bugs from the swamp got them in the end. Or perhaps a grizzly bear.

There seems to be something we are not being told as it doesn't add up.
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Old 8th August 2019, 03:51 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
....

There seems to be something we are not being told as it doesn't add up.
They're just waiting for an autopsy as opposed to guessing. I suspect that means they didn't die shooting themselves in the head. Still could be suicide.
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Old 8th August 2019, 03:57 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The bodies of two suspected teenage killers, have been found dead in the swampy wilds of British Columbia, Canada.

They are believed to have callously murdered a back-packing couple and a 64-year-old botanist.

A brief timeline here shows:



The Irish Times article appears to be suggesting they were some kind of right-wing 'survivalists' (of the Timothy McVeigh mode?).

However, it's hard to understand why the gunned down that young couple or the older man.

What makes a couple of teenagers go out on such a killing spree?

Looks like bugs from the swamp got them in the end. Or perhaps a grizzly bear.

There seems to be something we are not being told as it doesn't add up.
What the heck kind of man eating swamp bugs do they have in Canada?
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:08 PM   #4
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Maybe they were shot with iche-luge bullets?
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
What the heck kind of man eating swamp bugs do they have in Canada?
You would be surprised.

This is a photo of me and some friends on a tramping holiday in Canada a few years ago.

The bug is a new born, so the adults are about 4 times bigger. You need to keep your eye on them.

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Old 8th August 2019, 04:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
What the heck kind of man eating swamp bugs do they have in Canada?
black flies can be unrelenting.
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Looks like bugs from the swamp got them in the end. Or perhaps a grizzly bear.
Or they killed themselves, or one killed the other and then themselves.
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
They're just waiting for an autopsy as opposed to guessing. I suspect that means they didn't die shooting themselves in the head. Still could be suicide.
I think the point of the autopsy was to firmly and formally establish their identity.
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I think the point of the autopsy was to firmly and formally establish their identity.
Sure. So another possibility is they want to notify the family before telling the public they had gunshot wounds to the head.

Makes sense.



As for the bugs, hoo boy, you don't know bugs until you see the mosquito hordes in the Canadian wilderness.
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The bodies of two suspected teenage killers, have been found dead in the swampy wilds of British Columbia, Canada.

They are believed to have callously murdered a back-packing couple and a 64-year-old botanist.

A brief timeline here shows:



The Irish Times article appears to be suggesting they were some kind of right-wing 'survivalists' (of the Timothy McVeigh mode?).

However, it's hard to understand why the gunned down that young couple or the older man.

What makes a couple of teenagers go out on such a killing spree?

Looks like bugs from the swamp got them in the end. Or perhaps a grizzly bear.

There seems to be something we are not being told as it doesn't add up.
Are the newspapers really that bad there?

They were reported missing. Their burned out truck was found. While police were investigating the truck a passing tourist informed them there was a body at a highway pull out 2 kms away. We drove by those two scenes on our way North.

At that point the two went from "missing" to "suspects." They were sighted in Northern Saskatchewan and in Northern Manitoba. They were found dead in Manitoba.

The three victims were a man from Australia, his American girlfriend, and another man from BC. Two were killed near the Liard Hotsprings while the third was killed about 600 kilometres away near Dease Lake. Two were shot but it hasn't been released how the third died or how the two suspects died.

Apparently they stole the third victim's SUV and drove it to Gillam, Manitoba where they burned that too. The Ontario sighting was obviously mistaken.

I think people don't understand how remote these places are. Today we drove from Whitehorse, YT to Watson Lake, Yt. That was 6 hours of driving with only one available stop. The other two towns are abandoned. The Stewart- Cassiar is even worse.

New cars make all these little towns useless. Cars seldom break down and can go almost all day on a tank of fuel. It is roughly 400-500 kms between filling stations and few if any houses. The further North you go the worse it gets. There is one stop between Stewart Landing and Inuvik. That's 800 kms of gravel road with a motel/restaurant/pub/filling station at about 400 kms. There are territorial campsites along the way with outhouses, garbage cans, and water that must be boiled. We had three flats on that road.

There is no cell service outside of the towns and it's pretty unreliable in town. Up here you are on your own most of the time.

Having said that, this is such an anomoly that it had everybody talking about it. The advised safety measure was to only stop in busy campsites. People have lives to live. Everyone is relieved they were found and mostly sad that two young people could go so wrong their first time away from home.

The right-wing leaning claim was put to rest pretty quickly. The guy liked Nazi memorabilia, that's it.
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Old 8th August 2019, 05:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The Irish Times article appears to be suggesting they were some kind of right-wing 'survivalists' (of the Timothy McVeigh mode?).

However, it's hard to understand why the gunned down that young couple or the older man.

What makes a couple of teenagers go out on such a killing spree?
Probably share a reason with one of the hundreds of spree killers in history.

Sometimes it's for kicks. Adrenaline rush?
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Old 8th August 2019, 09:41 PM   #12
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Perfect murder.
1. Kill a group of people
2. Make it look like it was done by two teenagers
3. Kill the teenagers. Just make it look like bugs killed them or a murder suicide.

The teenagers will never stand trial.
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Old 8th August 2019, 10:07 PM   #13
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I can believe they got sucked dry by the black flies!
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Old 8th August 2019, 10:15 PM   #14
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If the wilderness got em, I say what a fitting end for them.
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Old 8th August 2019, 11:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The bodies of two suspected teenage killers, have been found dead in the swampy wilds of British Columbia, Canada.

They are believed to have callously murdered a back-packing couple and a 64-year-old botanist.

A brief timeline here shows:



The Irish Times article appears to be suggesting they were some kind of right-wing 'survivalists' (of the Timothy McVeigh mode?).

However, it's hard to understand why the gunned down that young couple or the older man.

What makes a couple of teenagers go out on such a killing spree?

Looks like bugs from the swamp got them in the end. Or perhaps a grizzly bear.

There seems to be something we are not being told as it doesn't add up.
British Columbia is about 2000 km from where the bodies were found near Gillam Manitoba. It's not swamp either.
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Old 9th August 2019, 06:41 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
The right-wing leaning claim was put to rest pretty quickly. The guy liked Nazi memorabilia, that's it.
Do you have a link for this? I'm poking around, reading articles and haven't seen them mention the Nazi memorabilia or his beliefs in any real detail.
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Looks like bugs from the swamp got them in the end. Or perhaps a grizzly bear.
It seems rather strange that if it was bugs or bears that got them, that they would have found the bodies so close together.

After all, neither one of those deaths would be instantaneous, so you figure whomever died first, the other would have been able to travel on for at least a few kilometers.
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Do you have a link for this? I'm poking around, reading articles and haven't seen them mention the Nazi memorabilia or his beliefs in any real detail.
Some googling found this:

https://globalnews.ca/news/5682031/r...-murders-nazi/
Police are investigating photos of Bryer Schmegelsky, one of the two suspects wanted in deaths of multiple people in B.C., wearing army attire and holding Nazi paraphernalia, the RCMP have confirmed.
...
One of the photos depicts Bryer Schmegelsky wearing army attire while holding a rifle and a second shows him in a gas mask. The third photo depicts a swastika arm band and a knife with the inscription “Blut und Ehre” on the blade, which means blood and honour in German.


(The article contains the referenced photos. It also has information from one of the parents, suggesting he was troubled and wanted to go out in a "blaze of glory".)
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:16 AM   #19
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A strange kind of remote wilderness. Great distances and few travelers are a given, it isn't midtown Manhattan.

But everyone dead was found rather quickly despite being off a beaten path. A lot of people seem to end up in the oddest corner of it.
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:16 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe they were shot with iche-luge bullets?
Have one on me.

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Old 9th August 2019, 11:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
A strange kind of remote wilderness. Great distances and few travelers are a given, it isn't midtown Manhattan.

But everyone dead was found rather quickly despite being off a beaten path. A lot of people seem to end up in the oddest corner of it.
Actually, the murder victims were found quickly because they were on the beaten path, that is, close to the major roads that run through the region. The bodies of the two 19 year old young men were found because the police have been searching the area extensively for over a week.
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Old 9th August 2019, 11:46 AM   #22
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Bryer Smegelsky's father has been interviewed by 9News:

Quote:
Abo and her team were with him in the minutes after he received news the bodies of his son and 19-year-old Kam McLeod had been discovered.
"When someone in your family dies, I know that f***ing pain," Schmegelsky tells Abo in an exclusive sneak peek.

"This is the worst nightmare anyone could ever imagine."

<snip>

In Sunday's exclusive 60 Minutes interview, Schmegelsky says his son was a quiet teenager with an interest in video games, YouTube and more recently, outdoor sports and survival camping.

But despite the severity of the crimes his son is accused of, Schmegelsky refuses to stop loving – or defending – his boy.

"I'm not going to say my son is a murderer until I get some facts," he tells 60 Minutes.
How did the so-called "quiet teenagers" become suspected killers?
They say the 'quiet' ones are the worst.
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Old 9th August 2019, 11:48 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Or they killed themselves, or one killed the other and then themselves.
I have long had a fascination with that part of the world. During the Gold Rush era, it wasn't unusual for stranded prospecters to resort to cannibalism.

These two youths were seen foraging around the garbage bins, which indicates they were hungry.
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Old 9th August 2019, 12:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I have long had a fascination with that part of the world. During the Gold Rush era, it wasn't unusual for stranded prospecters to resort to cannibalism.

These two youths were seen foraging around the garbage bins, which indicates they were hungry.
I only read that two individuals who matched their body type were seen at a garbage dump "foraging for food", not that the police actually confirmed that they were present or anything.
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Old 9th August 2019, 12:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I have long had a fascination with that part of the world. During the Gold Rush era, it wasn't unusual for stranded prospecters to resort to cannibalism.

These two youths were seen foraging around the garbage bins, which indicates they were hungry.
There was no gold rush in "that part of the world" unless you think that thousands of kilometres away is "that part of the world".

Prospectors rarely resorted to cannibalism. I would ask that you support your assertion that it was "not unusual" as I am curious where such misinformation originates.

They were not spotted around garbage bins. A tip came in that 2 people were seen at a distance at a garbage dump and a huge police response flooded the area within 30 minutes. Unfortunately, it turned out to be totally unfounded. (edit: Ninja'd by Arcade22)
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I only read that two individuals who matched their body type were seen at a garbage dump "foraging for food", not that the police actually confirmed that they were present or anything.
I'm still working through the discovery that prospectors usually resorted to cannibalism when stranded.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still working through the discovery that prospectors usually resorted to cannibalism when stranded.
Presumably ... not right away.

Last edited by Elagabalus; 9th August 2019 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:49 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Presumedly ... not right away.
Why wait? Beat the rush, start early and often!
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
There was no gold rush in "that part of the world" unless you think that thousands of kilometres away is "that part of the world".

Prospectors rarely resorted to cannibalism. I would ask that you support your assertion that it was "not unusual" as I am curious where such misinformation originates.

They were not spotted around garbage bins. A tip came in that 2 people were seen at a distance at a garbage dump and a huge police response flooded the area within 30 minutes. Unfortunately, it turned out to be totally unfounded. (edit: Ninja'd by Arcade22)
Here you go, from the Overlanders by Richard Thomas Wright, 1985:

Quote:
In 1862, a party of five hopeful prospectors set out from London, Ontario, on a difficult land route that would take them to Barkerville, BC, the epicenter of the Cariboo Gold Rush. But near the end of their journey, as they canoed west on the Fraser River, tragedy struck the group. Their boat was destroyed just downstream of where the Huble Homestead would later be built, and two of them left the others in an unsuccessful attempt to get help from Fort George. The three remaining travelers suffered a gruesome death in the harsh winter, the full details of which were only discovered several months later.

<snip>

The first story, “A Melancholy Diary,” by Gilbert Rennie, appeared in the July 11th, 1863 edition of The British Colonist. According to the article, Gilbert and his brothers, William and Thomas, along with Englishmen John Helstone and John R. Wright, left London on May 15th, 1862. This was an unusually late departure date; most other overlanders had left a month earlier.


They travelled west to Saint Cloud and through the Dakotas, arriving at Fort Garry in Manitoba on July 7th. The group then passed through Fort Carlton and Fort Pitt in Saskatchewan before reaching Fort Edmonton on August 27th. They made good time in their trek across Alberta, going by St. Albert and then St. Anne, crossing the Pembina River in mid September.

<snip>

The weather there was quite fine, as it had been for most of their journey. Indeed, Gilbert said it was so mild that some of the meat they were drying spoiled, and blood-sucking black flies caused great annoyance. They spent 11 days there drying meat and building two canoes, which guides recommended they lash together to avoid upsetting. The river, which would later be dynamited by the Grand Trunk Pacific railway to clear some of the rapids, was at the time quite dangerous. On the 15th, they set out on the Fraser River in their canoes, continually running rapids for two weeks. At the Fraser’s Grand Canyon, a treacherous gorge some 140 km upstream of Prince George, they spent three days making a portage (meaning they carried their canoes over land to a calmer point in the river). But the worst was yet to come. Their delayed departure on their journey would prove to be a source of great suffering for them when, on October 29th, the weather caught up to the season and their misfortune began.

<snip>

It was now October 31st, and their situation was dire. Having spent two nights in a canoe with only dried meat to eat, the rest of the party was now just as wet and cold as Wright. None of them were able to light a fire that day. In addition, when the small canoe sank, they lost nearly all their money, much of their clothing and bedding, and most of their food. They spent the night huddled together in a nook in the rocks, covered in their blankets and buffalo skins. John Helstone and Thomas Rennie both had their feet badly frozen.

<snip>

On November 5th, the Rennie brothers set out with one meal, a rifle, and some ammunition, leaving the others with 10 days worth of food. They made a long and arduous journey south through deep snow, spending three days making a bridge to cross the Salmon River, shooting birds and squirrels to eat. Waist-deep snow hindered their progress, and by the time they arrived at Fort George, William’s feet were so frozen that he had to be lifted into a canoe by a native man to cross the Nechako River.


And they [native guides]found them — or at least two of them. Helstone and Wright were still alive, but in order to remain so, they had murdered Thomas Rennie and eaten most of his upper body. They were tearing raw flesh from his legs when the natives came upon them, and the natives fled when the two desperate men drew their pistols.

<snip> Thomas Rennie’s skull was found in a corner of the camp in a neat pile of bloody, half-chewed bones. Another man’s skull was found that had been chopped open with an axe. Outside the camp, they found some of Rennie’s hair, still attached to a hunk of skin.
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:37 PM   #30
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I think that we all remember the famous Gold Rush of Northeastern Manitoba. Between the swamps and the cannibalism, it was apparently quite the harsh environment.
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:40 PM   #31
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OK, fair enough. Vancouver Island where the youths started off from is in the far west of Canada and Manitoba where they apparently died is in the far east of it.

However, it was wilderness and it was the press that spoke about swamps and bugs.
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A single anecdote does not suffice. You made what is essentially a statistical claim. To support that claim, you need to show that cannibalism happened not once or twice or even a dozen times, but that it happened most of the time. Your citation here is laughably insufficient.
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:43 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A single anecdote does not suffice. You made what is essentially a statistical claim. To support that claim, you need to show that cannibalism happened not once or twice or even a dozen times, but that it happened most of the time. Your citation here is laughably insufficient.
This has **** all to do with this thread.
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A single anecdote does not suffice. You made what is essentially a statistical claim. To support that claim, you need to show that cannibalism happened not once or twice or even a dozen times, but that it happened most of the time. Your citation here is laughably insufficient.

From wiki:


Quote:
The May 27, 1826 issue of The Acadian Recorder reported that the surviving crew of the ship Francis Mary resorted to cannibalism.[26]

The last survivors of Captain Sir John Franklin's lost arctic expedition of 1845 were found to have resorted to cannibalism in their final push across King William Island, Canada, towards the Back River.[30]

Alferd Packer was an American prospector who was accused of cannibalism during the winter of 1873-1874. First tried for murder, Packer was eventually sentenced to 40 years in prison after being convicted of manslaughter.[33]

Also in 1972, at the same time as the Andean incident, Marten Hartwell crashed his aircraft near the arctic circle in Canada's North West Territory. The three passengers died in the month it took searchers to find them, but Hartwell survived by eating part of one body.

OK, fair enough. It's unlikely the 'teenage killers' would have resorted to cannibalism after such a short time.
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Old 9th August 2019, 03:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
OK, fair enough. Vancouver Island where the youths started off from is in the far west of Canada and Manitoba where they apparently died is in the far east of it.

However, it was wilderness and it was the press that spoke about swamps and bugs.
Manitoba is more in the middle of Canada than the far east.
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Old 9th August 2019, 03:16 PM   #36
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Gold Rush Era - from 1826 to 1972.
Prospecting - an activity that includes exploring the arctic, committing murder and playing rugby in Uruguay.

Putting the "E" in ISF!
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Old 9th August 2019, 03:18 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
This has **** all to do with this thread.
It has everything to do with the thread. The thread is about a couple dead people and the circumstances surrounding their death. Speculation about those circumstances is perfectly on topic. Examining the quality speculative hypotheses about those circumstances is also perfectly on topic.

Complaining about the topicality of such examinations is arguably not on topic, though. Would you like me to report your derail, or are you already on it?
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Old 9th August 2019, 03:18 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
From wiki:





OK, fair enough. It's unlikely the 'teenage killers' would have resorted to cannibalism after such a short time.
Packer was American, not Canadian, and, if you're including Americans, you forgot the Donner Party. Cannibalism did happen on the frontier, in both US and Canada, but it was far from common. I know a bit about the Packer incident because it happened in my neck of the woods (Colorado).
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Old 9th August 2019, 03:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
From wiki:





OK, fair enough. It's unlikely the 'teenage killers' would have resorted to cannibalism after such a short time.
Alfred Packer was nowhere near Canada, he was near a different Caribou, near Boulder in Colorado, USA. Its also not clear if he actually engaged in cannibalism or just made up a story to cover the murder of his partner.

The student dining facility at the University of Colorado in Boulder used to named "Packies" in honour of him, sort of.
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Old 9th August 2019, 03:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
OK, fair enough. Vancouver Island where the youths started off from is in the far west of Canada and Manitoba where they apparently died is in the far east of it.

However, it was wilderness and it was the press that spoke about swamps and bugs.
The killing spree started on the Alaska Highway at Liard Hotsprings, a couole thousand kilometres from Vancouver Island. I think the media you refer to is Irish and has literally no clue as to the distances involved.
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