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Old 22nd November 2020, 09:17 AM   #2161
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"It sounds like the build-up to an illegal rave. Invitations are passed by word of mouth to trusted people. Minimal information – time, directions – is quietly given with pleas for discretion. Once everyone is assembled in a barn on a remote farm – “away from prying eyes,” says the organiser – it begins.

This is no rave, but an English church service under lockdown, and the organiser is a Protestant pastor. The Christians who will gather illegally in the west of England on Sunday morning – as they have for the past two Sundays – will pray, read from the scriptures, sing hymns and listen to a sermon." link

I despair.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 09:33 AM   #2162
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
"It sounds like the build-up to an illegal rave. Invitations are passed by word of mouth to trusted people. Minimal information – time, directions – is quietly given with pleas for discretion. Once everyone is assembled in a barn on a remote farm – “away from prying eyes,” says the organiser – it begins.

This is no rave, but an English church service under lockdown, and the organiser is a Protestant pastor. The Christians who will gather illegally in the west of England on Sunday morning – as they have for the past two Sundays – will pray, read from the scriptures, sing hymns and listen to a sermon." link

I despair.
That's truly pathetic - to have so little internal fortitude that they can't internalise their God fix for a few months. It isn't as if the Christian god punishes those who don't go to Church each week.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:17 AM   #2163
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
So the governement followed the advice of the scientific advisors, just as you would - and it was wrong.

The person I was responding to.
Nope I wasn’t blaming the Tories, I was and am blaming the government for the terrible decisions it has made throughout the pandemic.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:37 AM   #2164
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OFFS

Quote:
The UK's four nations have backed plans to allow some household mixing "for a small number of days" over Christmas.

It comes as Boris Johnson is due to announce on Monday what Covid restrictions may be in place over the festive period.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55036797

How many thousands will die in order to deliver Boris Johnson some favourable headlines ?
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Old 22nd November 2020, 12:45 PM   #2165
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Nope I wasn’t blaming the Tories, I was and am blaming the government for the terrible decisions it has made throughout the pandemic.
I wasn't responding to you with that post. See post 2163

Last edited by Lplus; 22nd November 2020 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:35 PM   #2166
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I came through FMD in 2001 when exactly the same mistakes were made, largely because government advisors were chosen for their political nous, that is that they would advise the government in the politically expedient way the government wanted to be advised. That was a Labour government. It happens all the time, irrespective of the party involved. It's the permanent state of affairs. You don't get these jobs without that streak of political compliance in your mindset.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:53 PM   #2167
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I came through FMD in 2001 when exactly the same mistakes were made, largely because government advisors were chosen for their political nous, that is that they would advise the government in the politically expedient way the government wanted to be advised. That was a Labour government. It happens all the time, irrespective of the party involved. It's the permanent state of affairs. You don't get these jobs without that streak of political compliance in your mindset.
That is almost verging on conspiracy theory.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:30 PM   #2168
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The NHS is heading into winter with the fewest hospital beds in a decade – leaving jam-packed A&Es and patients lined head-to-toe in corridors, came a warning last night.

New figures show a 13,500 fall in general beds since 2010 as exhausted staff battle unprecedented demand.

The British Medical Association warned: “The NHS needs proper support, now more than ever. Otherwise we face a hard winter like no other.”

Data published this week by NHS England revealed there were just 94,787 general beds in September – down more than 5,500 from 100,370 in 2019.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ge-10-23047602
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:42 PM   #2169
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
That is almost verging on conspiracy theory.

No. It's pointing out the repeated incompetence and cronyism demonstrated so frequently by the current UK regime and that this is a common characteristic of governments who steer their course by the opinions and prejudices of the general public.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 05:13 PM   #2170
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The British Medical Association warned: “The NHS needs proper support, now more than ever. Otherwise we face a hard winter like no other.”
Now is the time to start clapping for them and banging saucepans and such, every Thursday evening - that worked wonders last time!

Because of the shorter winter days, we could do it at 4pm instead of 8pm!
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Old 22nd November 2020, 05:28 PM   #2171
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
That is almost verging on conspiracy theory.

It's human nature. It's the way the world works. The cantankerous ornery type who digs his heels in doesn't get these jobs, no matter how brilliant he is. They go to the guy who has schmoozed the right people.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 01:11 AM   #2172
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The NHS is heading into winter with the fewest hospital beds in a decade – leaving jam-packed A&Es and patients lined head-to-toe in corridors, came a warning last night.
If only someone could have warned people in the spring that this was likely to happen...
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Old 23rd November 2020, 03:29 AM   #2173
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Steve Baker on Radio4 Today show using the European Convention on Human Rights to criticise the lockdown.

The same Steve Baker who wants us to repeal the ECHR.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 03:33 AM   #2174
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
In February a lot of people were saying all this loud and clear, and a lot of us were agitating in some anxiety for measures to be taken immediately and decisively. Hindsight was not required for anyone with an ounce of awareness, which should have included those responsible for making the decisions. That "experts" appointed for their willingness to tell politicians what they want to hear, and a compliant press, are now taking the line that "nobody could have foreseen this" is not unexpected, but it's gaslighting. We knew, and they should have known.
Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
Presumably a scientific advisory group - like this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54976192
"Was the scientific advice for lockdown flawed?"

As coronavirus began spreading around the world at the start of 2020, in the UK there were weaknesses in the expert analysis of its likely impact, according to a BBC documentary.

"There is going to be a lot of criticism of the scientists - because it's easy to have hindsight.

"It's easy to say if only we'd done this a week earlier we'd have saved 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 lives. But if you look at where we were in February, would you really have made these decisions any differently? I don't think you would have."

Those are the words of Prof Calum Semple of the University of Liverpool, one of the key scientists advising the government on Covid-19.



On 23 January 2020, a woman unknowingly infected with coronavirus flew to the UK from Wuhan and passed through the airport undetected. Eight days later she, and a family member, became the first confirmed UK cases.


But what wasn't understood was how many others then followed in their footsteps through February and March - not just from China, but from across Europe.



"What we hadn't realised was that the virus had already moved into Italy, France and Spain, and was in the ski resorts," says Prof Semple, who is on Sage, the government's scientific advisory group.

"It turns out that we had probably 1,500 cases that came in during that period, and that's why Britain was hit so hard. We were given a really bad dose at a very early stage in a large number."



Care home flaws

By mid-February, evidence from China showed older people were particularly at risk.


In the UK, modellers warned government that the virus could kill tens of thousands, and advised "cocooning" would reduce deaths.


But Dr Ian Hall, of SPI-M, admits models did not reflect how care homes actually work, or identify the serious risk posed by agency staff working in different homes.

"The failure of those models, I guess, was that we didn't know how connected the social care settings were with the community," he says.

"As modellers we didn't know - I'm sure there are lots of academics and policy-makers out there, that could have told us this, if we'd asked them."

etc etc.

Or this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54...b-global-en-GB

How many people could actually die?

One of the most alarming charts presented by the government when it announced the latest lockdown on Saturday looked at a range of scenarios for the number of predicted deaths in England.

The worst projection suggested deaths could reach 4,000 a day -

But it now turns out that projection was out-of-date.

It was based on figures from the start of October, which show by now there should be 1,000 deaths a day. The current average is a quarter of that number.

What is more, the Public Health England and the Cambridge University team that produced it have since published reports based on the more recently available data.

Grilled by MPs on this on Tuesday, chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said he apologised if it caused confusion.


etc, etc.
The highlighted part: From March 12th, so from the mainstream press well over a week before the UK lockdown was implemented.

https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status...012240897?s=20

Quote:
Early action is vital If China acted a week earlier, the total number of infections would have been 66% lower
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ad-of-covid-19
I had been saying that we needed a lockdown before then - because the scientific evidence *was* strong enough to act. It was clear to someone whose expertise consisted of being numerate enough to understand exponential growth and having regular conversations with someone who had been involved in containing a severe outbreak of an infectious animal disease.

What else would I have done differently if I was PM?

Maybe by the time that there had been four COBR meetings on the subject of COVID-19, I'd have considered it was an ongoing crisis, and I should attend the fifth?

I'd have shut mass gatherings, before Cheltenham.

I might just have considered that reading the Exercise Cygnus report before the end of April was probably a good idea.

I *was* looking at Italy, and just looking at the numbers and with the ability to plot them on a log scale could see that we weren't 4-weeks behind, but actually 11-days. So as soon as Italy went into lockdown, I'd have known it was inevitable for the UK, and acted then - sure in the knowledge that prompt action might be unpopular at the time, but I'd have been vindicated within a couple of months. https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status...04958575218689

I'd not have rebuffed the EU vaccine, PPE and ventilator initiatives for cheap political point-scoring - especially as I would have read the Exercise Cygnus report and spotted the issue with PPE.

I'd not have boasted about shaking hands with COVID-19 patients, which was undermining the message that the government was putting out at the time.

I'd have asked the UK manufacturers of PPE and ventilator equipment before asking companies with no experience in the field.

I'd have realised that keeping the trust of the UK population was vital. So I would have fired Cummings immediately his breaching of the regulations was discovered. I certainly wouldn't have supported him after he was shown to lie in his statement in the Rose Garden - a needless and easily disproven lie* when he was making an unconvincing excuse that the government's credibility rested on.

I'd have realised that financial support for those industries affected would be vital, so act far quicker on that.

I'd have realised that testing was important, as was tracing of contacts - so I would have asked what systems we had in place already. We had experienced organisations at a local level - environmental health officers do this regularly. Universities were rebuffed when offering testing capacity at the start. I would have insisted that Hancock was honest about the figures and didn't keep changing them - which lost trust, and made it harder for everyone to see what the situation was.

I'd have accepted that Brexit was a distraction at this time and that nobody would have blamed me for asking for an extension due to extreme circumstances.

And these were things that we knew at the time. No hindsight required.




*A lie that if taken at face value actually made him seem to have worse judgement. He claimed to have predicted a coronavirus pandemic before 2019, and retrospectively altered his blog to show that, but he didn't see fit to check what the UK's preparedness for this was - even when the pandemic hit. He was claiming to be either negligent or incompetent.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 03:51 AM   #2175
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Tory talking head talking about Christmas arrangements.
Someone should point out to him that an 'extra' lockdown in January will not ‘make up' for Christmas.
That’s not how mortality works.
if your granny dies because you gave her COVID with the turkey she won’t come back to life on boxing day.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 04:06 AM   #2176
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The Cambridge vaccine will be funnier.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 05:35 AM   #2177
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
That is almost verging on conspiracy theory.
It really isn't.

I and many others I know can cite many instances from within the NHS of front line clinicians warning about the inevitable consequences of certain decisions, made for political reasons by politicians and their politically appointed advisers in the DoH. And yet those decisions are still followed through and we all suffered the predicted consequences, which then needed to be rectified.

It's how UK-ian governements have done many things as far back as I can remember. Many politicians and their political appointees are just not very good at actually running things and do not like listening to folk who actually know a thing or 2 about a particular service.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 05:56 AM   #2178
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Jim, #2180, that is all incredibly sensible (and I do recall you arguing all those things at the time), but would require one very important thing: not being an ignorant, lazy buffoon called Boris Johnson. Johnson has acted throughout this episode in exactly the way I expected, given what we know about how he has behaved previously. As have useless berks like Hancock (I lived through some utter rubbish at the DoH, but Hancock makes some of them look like utter geniuses).
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Old 23rd November 2020, 07:36 AM   #2179
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I came through FMD in 2001 when exactly the same mistakes were made, largely because government advisors were chosen for their political nous, that is that they would advise the government in the politically expedient way the government wanted to be advised. That was a Labour government. It happens all the time, irrespective of the party involved. It's the permanent state of affairs. You don't get these jobs without that streak of political compliance in your mindset.
That is almost verging on conspiracy theory.
It's what my dad was saying in 2000-2001 before the FMD outbreak was confirmed. Because he had learned from the 1967 outbreak. Stopping movement early was a key lesson that had been forgotten.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:07 AM   #2180
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Oh great, more super-spreader events in the offing.

Quote:
A maximum of 4,000 fans are set to be allowed at outdoor events in the lowest-risk areas when the national lockdown in England ends on 2 December, BBC Sport understands.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/55010011

More government by headline.

Quote:
He will make a statement to the House of Commons, and MPs will vote on it later in the week.

Up to 2,000 fans will be allowed in tier two areas but zero in tier three.
FFS, one step forwards, two steps back.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 09:06 AM   #2181
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Oh great, more super-spreader events in the offing.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/55010011

More government by headline.



FFS, one step forwards, two steps back.
I am sure there will be scientific evidence for why that numeric break has been chosen.

Presumably it will mean the Queen can attend the races?
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Old 23rd November 2020, 02:38 PM   #2182
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Well, my friend has finally agreed that we should take advantage of the concession for an extended household so that we can spend Christmas and New Year in each other's houses. I finally got it through to her that even though she's in a Level 4 area and I'm in Level 2, it is legal for members of an extended household to cross the county boundary to visit each other.

I also got it through to her that it was perfectly safe, as we'd both be driving our own cars non-stop and no public transport would be involved. I've been super-extra-careful since mid-March, and she has not only been at least extra-careful, there is a 50% chance she's actually vaccinated. And if she does give it to me, (a) it will go no further due to said super-extra-careful precautions, and (b) I will actually kill her.

If a few more people asked not just "is it legal" (and then didn't do it if it wasn't) but "is it safe" (and then didn't do it if it wasn't), we'd be in a much better position.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 02:58 PM   #2183
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Well, my friend has finally agreed that we should take advantage of the concession for an extended household so that we can spend Christmas and New Year in each other's houses. I finally got it through to her that even though she's in a Level 4 area and I'm in Level 2, it is legal for members of an extended household to cross the county boundary to visit each other.

I also got it through to her that it was perfectly safe, as we'd both be driving our own cars non-stop and no public transport would be involved. I've been super-extra-careful since mid-March, and she has not only been at least extra-careful, there is a 50% chance she's actually vaccinated. And if she does give it to me, (a) it will go no further due to said super-extra-careful precautions, and (b) I will actually kill her.

If a few more people asked not just "is it legal" (and then didn't do it if it wasn't) but "is it safe" (and then didn't do it if it wasn't), we'd be in a much better position.
Yup. This pandemic has shown many things that are legal but stupid. Starting with the Cheltenham Festival.

And some things that were illegal at some time, but perfectly safe.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 03:18 PM   #2184
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Neighbours of mine (with whom I'm in an extended household at the moment although we haven't actually visited each other, they just took me out to lunch on my birthday) might have been eligible to form an extended household with one of their daughters, because she is separated from her husband. When I enquired why they didn't, as their daughter is in a single-adult household albeit with two children, I was treated to a fair list of why nots. Daughter is back at work in a face-to-face role dealing with the public. Sons are attending school and have already had to isolate twice due to contacts there (of course all members of their extended household, had they had one, would have had to isolate), and sons are also going back and forwards between their parents' two houses, and their father has a new bidie-in "we know nothing about".

At the end of all that I could only blink and say, OK, I see. Both my neighbours are in their seventies. Just as well they have the nous to understand that just because it's legal doesn't mean it's safe. (We decided to make an extended household until 10th December, when I have to break it if I'm going to form an extended household with Elsie on Christmas Eve. But I'm damn sure we'd have done no such thing if each half of the bargain wasn't certain that the other half was safe.)
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Old 23rd November 2020, 09:47 PM   #2185
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My sister in Devon is very disappointed she can't see her two nearby grandchildren again, after being in a bubble with them for the last few months. I pointed out to her that if one of them infected her they would never forgive themselves, which she reluctantly acknowledged. She's just had heart surgery, so she's particularly vulnerable at the moment. Fortunately her daughter is a smart woman and understands the risks she would be taking letting her children visit.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 09:59 PM   #2186
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Yes, yellow fever is a good example. I was explicitly told that I had a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying from that vaccine, but do you want to go on that cruise or don't you?

I went on the cruise. Nobody forced me.
The Australian airline, QANTAS, has just announced that proof of COVID vaccination will be a condition to fly on their international flights. This includes in and out of Australia (and any other international stop-to-stop I'd guess).
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Old 24th November 2020, 01:03 AM   #2187
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Pope Francis weighs in on anti-maskers.

Quote:
He railed against those who claim “that being forced to wear a mask is an unwarranted imposition by the state”.

“You’ll never find such people protesting the death of George Floyd, or joining a demonstration because there are shantytowns where children lack water or education, or because there are whole families who have lost their income,” he said. “On such matters they would never protest; they are incapable of moving outside of their own little world of interests.”
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Old 24th November 2020, 01:20 AM   #2188
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So let's get this straight. Pfizer/Biotech said their vaccine was 90% effective. Moderna come along and say theirs is 95%. So Pfizer hastily say theirs might be even more effective than they originally said. Then Oxford/Astrazenica announce theirs is effective 70% 'on average'. Their share prices started dropping. So they announce that actually it is 'up to 90% effective' :

(a) if you have half a dose of vaccine no.1 and a full full dose no.2,
(b) plus, it is so much cheaper than the other two at circa £2.25 a shot,
(c) you can keep it in a fridge, no need for the -75°C malarkey and
(d) the Health Minister, Matt Hancock, has ordered 100m of these which he will roll out 'personally' within weeks.


Forgive my scepticism but I have the following questions:
  • Health: no problems about needing two shots of the vaccination, this is how a tetanus shot works (you get three shots spread out over nine months) but why a half dose; how is a half dose better than a full dose?
  • Were there complications with a full dose no.1 they haven't told us about?
  • Why only 70% effective 'on average' when Pfizer and Moderna claim 90 - 95% absolute effectiveness?
  • Why does the FDA in the USA refuse to certify the Oxford/Astrazenica vaccine yet it is OK for the UK?
  • Financial: Does Hancock, Johnson, and sundry members of SAGE, NHS and PHE have shares in Oxford/Astrazeneca which is why they are pushing it?
  • R&D: Is there a fault in the design of the trials if a full first shot leads to poor effectiveness as compared to a half first shot?
  • If so, why is it being rushed out, instead of the Pfizer or Moderna ones? (It can't be time, because the EU has already ordered one of the other ones)?

Is it a case of 'vaccinate in haste, repent at leisure'...?
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Old 24th November 2020, 01:58 AM   #2189
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So let's get this straight. Pfizer/Biotech said their vaccine was 90% effective. Moderna come along and say theirs is 95%. So Pfizer hastily say theirs might be even more effective than they originally said. Then Oxford/Astrazenica announce theirs is effective 70% 'on average'. Their share prices started dropping. So they announce that actually it is 'up to 90% effective' :
Is that what happened?

What I saw was very early 'stop press' reports saying 70%, with little more detail than that. Very shortly afterwards, the reports were filled out, as if someone had actually read the press release rather than just scanning for a percentage figure, and they now gave the full information.

The 70% was the average figure for the whole trial, but 90% was achieved with a particular method of giving the vaccine.
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Old 24th November 2020, 03:14 AM   #2190
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Is that what happened?

What I saw was very early 'stop press' reports saying 70%, with little more detail than that. Very shortly afterwards, the reports were filled out, as if someone had actually read the press release rather than just scanning for a percentage figure, and they now gave the full information.

The 70% was the average figure for the whole trial, but 90% was achieved with a particular method of giving the vaccine.
The chief of the Oxford/Astrazenica vaccine seems to be saying they discovered 'by accident' that the initial half-dose is better than the full dose that should have been applied, in a section of the 30,000 vaccine volunteers. This strikes me as not really following the 'scientific method' because it appears to be shoe-horning the results into what you want it to be ( = 'the halo effect'). For example, say the null hypothesis was 'this vaccine is not effective at the 95% significance level' so you apply a group with a placebo, as the control group with which to compare your results and then the other half with the vaccine proper. After the trial it is discovered of the placebo group X number caught Covid19, whereas in the vaccine group only 30% caught the illness. But wait! You 'suddenly' realise that for half the vaccine group, you have accidentally only given them half a dose (red flag: this was not part of the original design) and in this group only 10% got Covid 19. You can't just say, let's ignore the group who followed the experiment designed exactly as we planned it but only 62% seemed immune to Covid19 and present the 'accidental' group as the 'results' of our trial instead.

Have they investigated WHY the persons getting the full dose at the start were less immune than the group getting the half dose 'by accident'. It's all very well saying, oh it must be to do with immune response, but that hasn't actually been tested, has it?

I get that Oxford/Astrazenica were very keen to be 'first in the market' with the vaccine - and kudos to the early volunteers - but has it come with the price of a flawed design? And because the government has ordered 100m it is too late to make sure it is properly efficient and safe? Is the acceptance of the vaccine more to do with stock market prices and 'being first' than the scientific proven facts of the vaccine efficiacy?
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:36 AM   #2191
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If it's a scam why not announce it is 96% effective from the start?
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:46 AM   #2192
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The chief of the Oxford/Astrazenica vaccine seems to be saying they discovered 'by accident' that the initial half-dose is better than the full dose that should have been applied, in a section of the 30,000 vaccine volunteers. This strikes me as not really following the 'scientific method' because it appears to be shoe-horning the results into what you want it to be ( = 'the halo effect'). For example, say the null hypothesis was 'this vaccine is not effective at the 95% significance level' so you apply a group with a placebo, as the control group with which to compare your results and then the other half with the vaccine proper. After the trial it is discovered of the placebo group X number caught Covid19, whereas in the vaccine group only 30% caught the illness. But wait! You 'suddenly' realise that for half the vaccine group, you have accidentally only given them half a dose (red flag: this was not part of the original design) and in this group only 10% got Covid 19. You can't just say, let's ignore the group who followed the experiment designed exactly as we planned it but only 62% seemed immune to Covid19 and present the 'accidental' group as the 'results' of our trial instead.

Have they investigated WHY the persons getting the full dose at the start were less immune than the group getting the half dose 'by accident'. It's all very well saying, oh it must be to do with immune response, but that hasn't actually been tested, has it?

I get that Oxford/Astrazenica were very keen to be 'first in the market' with the vaccine - and kudos to the early volunteers - but has it come with the price of a flawed design? And because the government has ordered 100m it is too late to make sure it is properly efficient and safe? Is the acceptance of the vaccine more to do with stock market prices and 'being first' than the scientific proven facts of the vaccine efficiacy?
No.
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Old 24th November 2020, 05:33 AM   #2193
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If it's a scam why not announce it is 96% effective from the start?
Citation, please.
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Old 24th November 2020, 05:35 AM   #2194
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No.
So I take it your attitude is, who cares?
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Old 24th November 2020, 05:52 AM   #2195
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So I take it your attitude is, who cares?
No.
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Old 24th November 2020, 06:42 AM   #2196
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No.
Very droll, I'm sure.
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Old 24th November 2020, 07:33 AM   #2197
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Very droll, I'm sure.

No.
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Old 24th November 2020, 09:22 AM   #2198
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Good news on PPE contracts;

https://goodlawproject.org/news/good-news-procurement/

"the High Court thinks our claims are arguable. Some weeks back we heard the Court had given us permission to bring our systemic challenge to the Government’s continuing breach of its transparency obligations. And last week we heard that it had also given Good Law Project and EveryDoctor permission to bring our challenge against its decision to award contracts to Pestfix, Ayanda, and Clandeboye.

This means that we are also very likely to be given permission to bring our challenges to the decision to award lucrative contracts without any tendering to long-time associates of Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings. And to the decision to award contracts to Abingdon Health and Saiger."
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Old 24th November 2020, 10:13 AM   #2199
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Is that what happened?

What I saw was very early 'stop press' reports saying 70%, with little more detail than that. Very shortly afterwards, the reports were filled out, as if someone had actually read the press release rather than just scanning for a percentage figure, and they now gave the full information.

The 70% was the average figure for the whole trial, but 90% was achieved with a particular method of giving the vaccine.
There's also the point that this vaccine will be simpler to make and distribute than the others and there seem to have been some differences in testing methodology that may haves affected the numbers, ie that the other vaccine trials weren't picking up on asymptomatic cases.
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Old 24th November 2020, 10:48 AM   #2200
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
The Australian airline, QANTAS, has just announced that proof of COVID vaccination will be a condition to fly on their international flights. This includes in and out of Australia (and any other international stop-to-stop I'd guess).

Good. Let's hope other airlines follow suit.
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