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Old 6th January 2019, 09:47 PM   #401
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Colleagues, we have now entered the cutting age.
The bleeding hedge.
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Old 6th January 2019, 09:57 PM   #402
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I think I need to plant some more shrubs... I need a hedge fund.
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Old 7th January 2019, 02:16 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I think I need to plant some more shrubs... I need a hedge fund.
Just don't be a hog.
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Old 7th January 2019, 03:53 PM   #404
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Just had a really difficult call that prompted my TL to tell me that I need to take a breath. Stubborn customer.

Essentially the problem was that he was trying to log on via RAS, but we require two-factor authentication and he does not have a RAS token applied to his account. He insists that four years ago, he was told that he didn't need one any more, and has been using RAS during that time, including up to two weeks ago, without one. This is, of course, impossible. I confirmed with my TL that he needs to fill in a form to get a token. Oh boy. Did he not like that suggestion.

I've been using RAS without a token for four years! Four years ago they told me that I didn't need one!

Well that might have been the case four years ago but it is not the case now. You need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have a token. It's broken in a drawer somewhere at home!

The token is not assigned to your account. To get a token assigned to your account you need to fill out the access request form.

But I've been logging on without a token for four years, including just two weeks ago.

If that is the case, then that is a security breach. You've been flying under the radar. Not sure how you were overlooked for so long, but now you need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have access!

No you don't.

Then how have I been logging on for this long without a token?

I can't explain that. You need to fill in the access request form.

But I already have a token!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In other news, there seem to be an inordinate amount of account unlocks this morning. Not sure why.
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Last edited by arthwollipot; 7th January 2019 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:28 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Colleagues, we have now entered the cutting age.
Not me I am still in the batter, sulk and complain age
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:03 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just had a really difficult call that prompted my TL to tell me that I need to take a breath. Stubborn customer.

Essentially the problem was that he was trying to log on via RAS, but we require two-factor authentication and he does not have a RAS token applied to his account. He insists that four years ago, he was told that he didn't need one any more, and has been using RAS during that time, including up to two weeks ago, without one. This is, of course, impossible. I confirmed with my TL that he needs to fill in a form to get a token. Oh boy. Did he not like that suggestion.

I've been using RAS without a token for four years! Four years ago they told me that I didn't need one!

Well that might have been the case four years ago but it is not the case now. You need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have a token. It's broken in a drawer somewhere at home!

The token is not assigned to your account. To get a token assigned to your account you need to fill out the access request form.

But I've been logging on without a token for four years, including just two weeks ago.

If that is the case, then that is a security breach. You've been flying under the radar. Not sure how you were overlooked for so long, but now you need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have access!

No you don't.

Then how have I been logging on for this long without a token?

I can't explain that. You need to fill in the access request form.

But I already have a token!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In other news, there seem to be an inordinate amount of account unlocks this morning. Not sure why.
After the third attempt at explaining, I tell them, "perhaps my manager would be better able to assist you". We had someone fired a few months ago because she got into with a user and yes, our calls are recorded for quality control.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:27 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
After the third attempt at explaining, I tell them, "perhaps my manager would be better able to assist you". We had someone fired a few months ago because she got into with a user and yes, our calls are recorded for quality control.
I offered. He didn't want to speak to my manager, he wanted me to bypass security protocol and just give him a token. Or even better, make it so that he could continue to log on without one.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:07 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
After the third attempt at explaining, I tell them, "perhaps my manager would be better able to assist you". We had someone fired a few months ago because she got into with a user and yes, our calls are recorded for quality control.
I think you a word out there.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:54 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just had a really difficult call that prompted my TL to tell me that I need to take a breath. Stubborn customer.

Essentially the problem was that he was trying to log on via RAS, but we require two-factor authentication and he does not have a RAS token applied to his account. He insists that four years ago, he was told that he didn't need one any more, and has been using RAS during that time, including up to two weeks ago, without one. This is, of course, impossible. I confirmed with my TL that he needs to fill in a form to get a token. Oh boy. Did he not like that suggestion.

I've been using RAS without a token for four years! Four years ago they told me that I didn't need one!

Well that might have been the case four years ago but it is not the case now. You need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have a token. It's broken in a drawer somewhere at home!

The token is not assigned to your account. To get a token assigned to your account you need to fill out the access request form.

But I've been logging on without a token for four years, including just two weeks ago.

If that is the case, then that is a security breach. You've been flying under the radar. Not sure how you were overlooked for so long, but now you need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have access!

No you don't.

Then how have I been logging on for this long without a token?

I can't explain that. You need to fill in the access request form.

But I already have a token!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In other news, there seem to be an inordinate amount of account unlocks this morning. Not sure why.
So (rule of), you had a guy who's been logging in without a token for years and an inordinate amount of account unlocks on the same day. Something changed on your side. Probably for the better, security-wise, but it's not just the users.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:02 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
So (rule of), you had a guy who's been logging in without a token for years and an inordinate amount of account unlocks on the same day. Something changed on your side. Probably for the better, security-wise, but it's not just the users.
I assure you, as far as RAS access is concerned, the only things that have changed since I stared in this job a year and a half ago is that the PIN requirement for tokens was removed, and a new RAS server was deployed. The requirement for two-factor authentication itself has not changed in that time.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:02 PM   #411
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My fight today - doesn't help at all that I have a nasty cold and was NOT in the mood for BS.

User complaining that Splunk was missing data, I asked for an example and figured out that Splunk wasn't missing data, but he was using a dashboard that was designed to filter out the data he was looking for.

The rest of the conversation went something like this:

"I liked Software A better, it should never have been decommissioned."
---Yes, but you can get the same information from softwares B, C, and D.
"But, I liked Software A better - I wasn't informed until very late in the game."
--- It was on the splash screen for months, you saw it was being decommissioned everytime you logged in.
"When I complained they just said too bad, it's too expensive"
-- Yes, running Software A was expensive when you consider you have options B, C or D.
"I heard it was only $1500 a month!"
--- That seems a rather low estimate. Anyway, Have you considered B, C, or D?
"I want Software A back".


And on and on it went.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:23 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just had a really difficult call that prompted my TL to tell me that I need to take a breath. Stubborn customer.

Essentially the problem was that he was trying to log on via RAS, but we require two-factor authentication and he does not have a RAS token applied to his account. He insists that four years ago, he was told that he didn't need one any more, and has been using RAS during that time, including up to two weeks ago, without one. This is, of course, impossible. I confirmed with my TL that he needs to fill in a form to get a token. Oh boy. Did he not like that suggestion.

I've been using RAS without a token for four years! Four years ago they told me that I didn't need one!

Well that might have been the case four years ago but it is not the case now. You need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have a token. It's broken in a drawer somewhere at home!

The token is not assigned to your account. To get a token assigned to your account you need to fill out the access request form.

But I've been logging on without a token for four years, including just two weeks ago.

If that is the case, then that is a security breach. You've been flying under the radar. Not sure how you were overlooked for so long, but now you need to fill out the access request form.

But I already have access!

No you don't.

Then how have I been logging on for this long without a token?

I can't explain that. You need to fill in the access request form.

But I already have a token!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In other news, there seem to be an inordinate amount of account unlocks this morning. Not sure why.
I sympathize with that one. 15 years in IT, and passwords/access are at the top of my frustration list. They flip out if security is tight, and flip out if there's a breach. I haven't worked anywhere yet that walks the tightrope that well, there might not be a way.
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Old 9th January 2019, 12:46 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I offered. He didn't want to speak to my manager, he wanted me to bypass security protocol and just give him a token. Or even better, make it so that he could continue to log on without one.
ouch! Unfortunately some humans just don't get why security is in place.

We have much less of a clamp down on log ons because our end users are students and teachers, we don't make anyone local admin anymore. Which causes some people frustration but has stopped the grayware installation.

Some of our staff were pretty upset when we implemented a password change policy, and we only require it change once a year!
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Old 9th January 2019, 04:07 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
ouch! Unfortunately some humans just don't get why security is in place.

We have much less of a clamp down on log ons because our end users are students and teachers, we don't make anyone local admin anymore. Which causes some people frustration but has stopped the grayware installation.

Some of our staff were pretty upset when we implemented a password change policy, and we only require it change once a year!
You know the worst part of the whole thing? He needed RAS so he could RDP to his workstation! Not just to access network resources, he needed to actually access the software on his desktop. Which means that the desktop needed to be exempted from the regular shutdown protocols as well! The whole thing was a security nightmare.
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Old 10th January 2019, 10:27 AM   #415
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Youch, and they had done this for years.
I would what the access records would show on the RAS
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:56 PM   #416
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So, I get why some people, especially programmers, prefer Linux. I really do understand. I've messed around with a few distros myself.

But, my company simply does not support Linux for working from home. There are ways to make it work in HTML5 or Citrix VDA, but don't ask us to do it for you. This is not a new development. This has always been policy. Our documentation walks you through connecting in Windows 7, 10, or Mac OS X. I don't care how much better you like Linux or how simple you think it would to implement it. It ain't happening.

And it sure as hell ain't gonna help when you submit a ticket with

Quote:
I login through my home *Linux* machines. I do not have, and will never own, a PC.
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:30 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
So, I get why some people, especially programmers, prefer Linux. I really do understand. I've messed around with a few distros myself.

But, my company simply does not support Linux for working from home. There are ways to make it work in HTML5 or Citrix VDA, but don't ask us to do it for you. This is not a new development. This has always been policy. Our documentation walks you through connecting in Windows 7, 10, or Mac OS X. I don't care how much better you like Linux or how simple you think it would to implement it. It ain't happening.

And it sure as hell ain't gonna help when you submit a ticket with
Speaking as a Linux user, if they insist on using a linux system then it's up to them to figure it out. That's how we got citrix working from home at the big bank I worked at. And frankly there are too many linux distros (a twisty little maze..sorry I'll stop) for you to support them all and all their various combos of network packages etc.
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Old 14th January 2019, 12:30 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
And it sure as hell ain't gonna help when you submit a ticket with
Quote:
I login through my home *Linux* machines. I do not have, and will never own, a PC.
So, what, he runs his Linux distro on a server? Mainframe? What?

ETA: The perfect reply:

You do not login from home on your *Linux* machines. You will not, and never will, log in without a PC.

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Old 14th January 2019, 01:00 PM   #419
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OS chauvinism is one of the stupidest memes to ever infect IT organizations. Worse than programming language chauvinism. Even worse than text editor chauvinism.

At least the vi and emacs nerds are willing to solve their own problems with the choices they've made.

"You have instructions for vi, but I prefer emacs... So I went ahead and wrote up a mail client/IDE that runs as an emacs macro and fulfills the use case, myself."
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Old 14th January 2019, 01:15 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
So, what, he runs his Linux distro on a server? Mainframe? What?

ETA: The perfect reply:

You do not login from home on your *Linux* machines. You will not, and never will, log in without a PC.

Unfortunately, PC has become synonymous with "a computer running Microsoft Windows", probably because of the incredibly stupid "I'm a PC" "I'm a Mac" adverts.

It's also entirely possible that the poster is logging in from a tablet or telephone, which certainly meets the 1980's definition of PC (Personal Computer) but not the more commonly used meaning today.
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Old 14th January 2019, 01:30 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Unfortunately, PC has become synonymous with "a computer running Microsoft Windows", probably because of the incredibly stupid "I'm a PC" "I'm a Mac" adverts.
I think it's the other way around. "PC" and "Mac" were chosen for those ads because the marketing team knew they were already in common use and would properly convey the distinction they were selling.

I'm pretty sure the terms and the distinction were around since at least the mid-90s.

I'm also pretty sure there's nothing "unfortunate" about this development. Languages evolve all the time, especially during the creation of a new family of context-specific terms like jargon for a new technical field. And there's not actually any rule of language mandating that compound words and derived words must be a literal conjunction of the component or source words.

There's nothing insightful or productive about resisting the usage of "PC" to mean "personal computer running some form of OS other than Apple's Mac OS family".
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Old 14th January 2019, 01:44 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
OS chauvinism is one of the stupidest memes to ever infect IT organizations. Worse than programming language chauvinism. Even worse than text editor chauvinism.

At least the vi and emacs nerds are willing to solve their own problems with the choices they've made.

"You have instructions for vi, but I prefer emacs... So I went ahead and wrote up a mail client/IDE that runs as an emacs macro and fulfills the use case, myself."
Not sure which side you're arguing here, but I agree with the overall sentiment. You use the OS that's best for the job.

However, and my personal pet peeve lately, what a lot of departments tend to ignore is administrative and support costs. Especially at the level of workstations. Generally speaking, it's a lot more expensive to support multiple platforms than a single one. It requires multiple software versions, sometimes not covered under a single bulk agreement (so smaller licenses=smaller discount), restrictions in available software to something that run across multiple platforms, increased personnel requirements (additional people that know each OS), etc.

For servers it makes some sense, Linux is better for some applications, and servers tend to be more static and less multi-use. You don't have to have a plethora of productivity software that will run on every server, usually just the main product, your endpoint protection, and whatever monitoring and management agents you need (and most of those last are multi-platform).

I agree with everyone using what they like and/or are comfortable with. But don't except to get supported in your personal choice by your company
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Old 14th January 2019, 01:45 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Unfortunately, PC has become synonymous with "a computer running Microsoft Windows", probably because of the incredibly stupid "I'm a PC" "I'm a Mac" adverts.

It's also entirely possible that the poster is logging in from a tablet or telephone, which certainly meets the 1980's definition of PC (Personal Computer) but not the more commonly used meaning today.
Eh, I've always used "PC" to refer to the hardware platform/type...which includes Macs, now.
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Old 14th January 2019, 02:32 PM   #424
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When I was at school in 1987, we had a "PC lab" and a "Mac lab". The PC lab had IBM clones. The Mac lab had 512k and 800k Macintosh computers.

Anyway.

Has this happened to any of you guys? I often have someone call me up, and they have their phone set to speaker. For a start, that makes them hard to hear, but whatever. The weird thing is that when the call ends, they just don't bother to disconnect. They don't hang up. Which means I can hear whatever is going on in their office when the call is ended, unless I hang up the call, at which point I assume their phone starts beeping the disconnected signal and they hang up the call to stop it.

Do they realise that I'm listening in on their conversation with colleagues after the call is finished? I wonder if that's a local thing or if it happens in other places as well.
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Old 14th January 2019, 02:40 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot
Has this happened to any of you guys? I often have someone call me up, and they have their phone set to speaker. For a start, that makes them hard to hear, but whatever. The weird thing is that when the call ends, they just don't bother to disconnect. They don't hang up. Which means I can hear whatever is going on in their office when the call is ended, unless I hang up the call, at which point I assume their phone starts beeping the disconnected signal and they hang up the call to stop it.

Do they realise that I'm listening in on their conversation with colleagues after the call is finished? I wonder if that's a local thing or if it happens in other places as well.
I have a weird, inverse version of that.

The Oncology group I support uses a Cisco IP based phone system so sites can fail over calls to other sites if they become backed up with calls, have to pull desk personal away to deal with an emergency, or whatever, pretty standard.

But about... 1 in 10 people know how to set the phones to "auto-answer" after X number of rings, usually the very front line people who spend the most time on the phone.

No less than 1 or 2 times a week something like this happens:

"Hey Karen, I'm here to fix that issue you reported."

"Oh okay, here I'll let you jump on the computer to work. Good time for me to go eat/bathroom/get coffee."

*Five minutes later*

Karen's phone rings. And then again. Then again. Then it autoanswers.

//one long unbroken sentence without pausing for breath//

"Hey Karen this Susan over in finance. Did you ever do a 4313A form on Mr. Johnson insurance to validate the payment for TRSTRN test in order to medicalbabble, medicalbabble, medicalbabble, medicalbabble, various more medicalbabble, some medicalbilling babble, and then some more medicalbabble...."

//oluswpfb//

*Beat*

*Beat*

"Karen? You there?"

"This is Joe. Karen isn't here."
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Old 14th January 2019, 02:47 PM   #426
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I was defending the member who uses "PC" to mean a computer running windows, which is, in my humble opinion, common usage.

Example conversations:

"I have a linux box at home." "Oh."

"I have a PC at home." "What version of Windows are you running?"

YMMV
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Old 14th January 2019, 04:52 PM   #427
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"Oh, hi, can I get an update on when this problem that I don't have any details about will be fixed? No, I don't know who logged it and I don't have a job number, but it's stopping me from working and I need to know when it's going to be resolved. Also, can you tell me if I have access to K drive?"
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Old 14th January 2019, 05:00 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"Oh, hi, can I get an update on when this problem that I don't have any details about will be fixed? No, I don't know who logged it and I don't have a job number, but it's stopping me from working and I need to know when it's going to be resolved. Also, can you tell me if I have access to K drive?"
Recent Phone message: "Can you come and see the problem on my PC and fix it? I don't know what's wrong but it is making a buzzing noise and Word doesn't work. I've shut it down just now. And I'm going out for the rest of the day so I won't be here when you get here, and will be on leave for the next few weeks and I won't give you my password either. Also, I've moved desks recently so I'm not where the phone directory says I am."
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Old 14th January 2019, 05:33 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Recent Phone message: "Can you come and see the problem on my PC and fix it? I don't know what's wrong but it is making a buzzing noise and Word doesn't work. I've shut it down just now. And I'm going out for the rest of the day so I won't be here when you get here, and will be on leave for the next few weeks and I won't give you my password either. Also, I've moved desks recently so I'm not where the phone directory says I am."
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Old 14th January 2019, 05:42 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Usually followed by a call 30 minutes later: "I'm back from lunch now and my PC hasn't been fixed. Why is it taking so long??!"
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Old 15th January 2019, 08:09 AM   #431
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Jesus Christ I will never get over how picky users are about how software "looks" when it functions exactly the same.

We upgraded one site from Outlook 2010 to Outlook 2013 overnight. Roughly 50% of the workforce is literally unable to function because things "look different then I'm used to."

And apparently all of them are legally blind and just have to have a color scheme darker then the "Dark Grey" option.
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- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
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Old 15th January 2019, 02:03 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
So, what, he runs his Linux distro on a server? Mainframe? What?

ETA: The perfect reply:

You do not login from home on your *Linux* machines. You will not, and never will, log in without a PC.

Alpha...
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Old 15th January 2019, 02:32 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Jesus Christ I will never get over how picky users are about how software "looks" when it functions exactly the same.

We upgraded one site from Outlook 2010 to Outlook 2013 overnight. Roughly 50% of the workforce is literally unable to function because things "look different then I'm used to."

And apparently all of them are legally blind and just have to have a color scheme darker then the "Dark Grey" option.
"I'm trying to log on, and the machine starts up and I press Ctrl-Alt-Del, but then it says 'Other User'. What does that mean? What do I do?"

Well, yes, it also has a picture of Uluru. Type your user ID and password.

"Oh, but what does it mean by 'Other User'?"

It's just what it says on the login screen. Nothing whatsoever has changed.
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Old 15th January 2019, 02:51 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Alpha...
Heheheheh...

I used to have a DEC Alpha that I would trundle out to LAN parties to play Quake. It used to impress the crap out of other players, but wasn't really all that exciting, certainly not be today's standards.



(Wasn't mine, but wasn't being used at work so I borrowed it to play with)
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:40 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Heheheheh...

I used to have a DEC Alpha that I would trundle out to LAN parties to play Quake. It used to impress the crap out of other players, but wasn't really all that exciting, certainly not be today's standards.



(Wasn't mine, but wasn't being used at work so I borrowed it to play with)
I can get you one. I've worked on Alphas for MANY years...still do!
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:41 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Alpha...
What is he running on it? There are a handful of OS's it will support officially, and a few more unofficially.
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:44 PM   #437
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The one I used to play with, had a customised version of linux.

I'm not certain now, but I think it started out as version of Mandrake (or I upgraded it to that).

I'm starting to lose a lot of details like that.

But it sure looked good when I wheeled it in on a hand truck.
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:51 PM   #438
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Anyone remember OS2 Warp?
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:57 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
The one I used to play with, had a customised version of linux.

I'm not certain now, but I think it started out as version of Mandrake (or I upgraded it to that).

I'm starting to lose a lot of details like that.

But it sure looked good when I wheeled it in on a hand truck.
That would probably be Mandrake 8. Alphas vary in size and shape from pizza box to phone booth. Hopefully you didn't have to wheel in the phone booth model?
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Old 15th January 2019, 03:58 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Anyone remember OS2 Warp?
Do you have a user with that? We have some still with Windows 2000...because of medical appliance certification requirements!
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