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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 12th June 2019, 08:56 PM   #1481
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If I were Albo I would have delegated this.
Evidently the perception is that Shorten's links with the union movement harmed the ALP at the last election. Albo is making a clear statement that he will not bow down to the unions.

Time will tell if this is a sound strategy.
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:58 PM   #1482
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What is high is the union donations to the ALP. If I were Albo I would have delegated this.
To the CFMEU committee. Get them to get Setka in line. Because that's who he thinks he "answers" to.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:33 AM   #1483
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Evidently the perception is that Shorten's links with the union movement harmed the ALP at the last election.
I know for a fact it turned off some voters who would otherwise have voted Labor.

I also know Labour in NZ has improved its share since removing the weight of union influence.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Albo is making a clear statement that he will not bow down to the unions.

Time will tell if this is a sound strategy.
I think it's a good plan, but as you say, time will show it for sure.
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Old 13th June 2019, 01:21 AM   #1484
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Aldani mine to go ahead

The Queensland Labor government has given the go ahead for the Aldani coal mine. This decision was clearly influenced by the LNP victory at the Federal election.
Quote:
Ms Palaszczuk (Queensland Premier) stepped in last month, demanding approval deadlines be set, after Labor was thumped at the federal election in Queensland electorates that want Adani's jobs.

"Science has been thrown in the bin for political expediency," said Mr Crothers (a former general manager for water allocation and planning in the Queensland government), who worked in government for 35 years before leaving in 2011.
Quote:
Some water experts claim Adani has grossly underestimated the mine's impacts on groundwater, and fear the effects of its permit to pump water out of the mine to allow for the safe extraction of coal.
https://7news.com.au/politics/queens...5tjjWY9sAu5zVk
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:25 PM   #1485
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
More importantly, standing up to the Blue-collar Mafia unions is a very good thing, and long overdue in Aussie politics.

I don't know why your unions are so corrupt. Ours are just useless.

Your subs must be higher.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Hey now, not all of our unions are irredeemably corrupt.

Dead right arth.

I have never belonged to a union (not applicable for my profession), but am grateful for the relatively high rate of pay I enjoy, as an indirect result of union work in history. I get annoyed when I hear others bagging unions as useless, and wonder if they have ever visited countries that have no history of unionism. Workers are paid a pittance. We do well out of this of course, getting cheap goods from said countries.
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Old 13th June 2019, 04:23 PM   #1486
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I get annoyed when I hear others bagging unions as useless, and wonder if they have ever visited countries that have no history of unionism.
Not only have I visited countries with no unions, I was also the youngest-ever member on the national council of the Bank Officers Union back in the early '80s and had the highest percentage vote for strike action in the country when I held a stopwork meeting of over 1000 people.

However, the level of self-serving and corruption that became evident soon put me on the other side of the fence.

Historically, unions served a purpose. They do not do that any more, and haven't for a long, long time.

Like NZ, Australia has plenty of provisions that make unions completely worthless and they are no more than a closed shop for dickheads.
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Old 13th June 2019, 05:56 PM   #1487
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Dead right arth.

I have never belonged to a union (not applicable for my profession), but am grateful for the relatively high rate of pay I enjoy, as an indirect result of union work in history. I get annoyed when I hear others bagging unions as useless, and wonder if they have ever visited countries that have no history of unionism. Workers are paid a pittance. We do well out of this of course, getting cheap goods from said countries.
And look what happens in, say, America, where labour unions were intimately tied to organised crime. Workers have practically no rights that we have come to expect.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:49 PM   #1488
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
And look what happens in, say, America, where labour unions were intimately tied to organised crime. Workers have practically no rights that we have come to expect.
Oh no doubt. The unions in the USA are somewhat tarnished and we are far more fortunate here. Not too sure what point you were making here however.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:54 PM   #1489
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So now we are hearing talk about what to do with those poor bastards in Nauru and on Manus Island again. One has to wonder why this is such a difficult problem to solve. (Caution, the linked article shows a picture of Peter Dutton which may cause nausea)


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...nauru/11215064


I can't understand the argument about deterrents and boat stopping. If the refugees achieve resettlement in the USA how is this a deterrent? Because the refugees had their hearts set on Australia?

Dutton is showing what a big heart he has, by showing his concern about kids on boats losing their lives. Not so worried about the ones locked up in detention, being raped and denied good medical attention.
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Old 16th June 2019, 07:01 PM   #1490
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Oh no doubt. The unions in the USA are somewhat tarnished and we are far more fortunate here. Not too sure what point you were making here however.
Just making an additional comment about unions in different countries. Were you expecting an argument?
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Old 17th June 2019, 02:40 PM   #1491
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just making an additional comment about unions in different countries. Were you expecting an argument?

Not an argument, just a point relevant to my post you responded to. Not to worry, I know you have a tendency to shoot off in different directions at times. As you were.
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Old 17th June 2019, 06:37 PM   #1492
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Not an argument, just a point relevant to my post you responded to. Not to worry, I know you have a tendency to shoot off in different directions at times. As you were.
I say what it occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things. More I cannot say.
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Old 17th June 2019, 08:21 PM   #1493
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Meanwhile...

Transgender law reform to allow Victorians to change birth certificate gender without surgery

Quote:
The Victorian Government has reintroduced a bill to Parliament which would make it easier for people to change the gender recorded on their birth certificate to male, female or any other gender descriptor of their choice.

The reform is aimed at improving existing laws, where Victorians can only change their birth certificate after they have undergone gender reassignment surgery.

The bill was first introduced in 2016 when it was opposed by the Coalition and failed to pass.

Premier Daniel Andrews said he was hopeful the legislation would have the support it needed the second time around.
Progress!
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Old 18th June 2019, 12:52 AM   #1494
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not much point in having such details on the birth certificate. I do suggest that they include some fingerprint or toeprint or other unique identifier so that it can be proved later that you are the same person named in the birth certificate.
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Old 18th June 2019, 01:34 AM   #1495
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Not much point in having such details on the birth certificate. I do suggest that they include some fingerprint or toeprint or other unique identifier so that it can be proved later that you are the same person named in the birth certificate.
Do fingerprints change over time?
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Old 18th June 2019, 04:39 AM   #1496
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Do fingerprints change over time?
They may grow as a child's hands grow and of course you may get a scar on your finger, but generally no. I thought everyone knew that?
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Old 18th June 2019, 05:42 PM   #1497
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
They may grow as a child's hands grow and of course you may get a scar on your finger, but generally no. I thought everyone knew that?
I wasn't sure. It seemed to me that if you set up a fingerprint scanner with a child's finger, and then scanned them as an adult, the fingerprints would not match. Even if it's just a matter of scale, that's still different enough that it would not unlock the iphone.
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Old 19th June 2019, 03:27 PM   #1498
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So, I didn't get any response to my question about the deterrent thing in Post # 1489.

None the less Dutton is banging the drum once more as he get worked up about medevac this time:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...ivals/11226254

Quote:
A fight over border protection is heating up, with the Home Affairs Minister claiming boat arrivals are much more likely, following a recent federal court decision on the so-called medevac legislation.

Peter Dutton told AM he fears the court's ruling will make travelling to Australia by boat more attractive for potential asylum seekers and he is pushing ahead with plans to scrap the legislation when Parliament resumes next month.
So, all those potential boat people will be watching these developments closely, and seeing Australia is giving medical attention to some sick refugees in Australia, will be jumping into their boats. That some others have been resettled in the USA won't excite them though.
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Old 19th June 2019, 04:33 PM   #1499
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So, I didn't get any response to my question about the deterrent thing in Post # 1489.

None the less Dutton is banging the drum once more as he get worked up about medevac this time:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...ivals/11226254



So, all those potential boat people will be watching these developments closely, and seeing Australia is giving medical attention to some sick refugees in Australia, will be jumping into their boats. That some others have been resettled in the USA won't excite them though.
It's just that Dutton can see no other solution, other than dropping them from helicopters or public executions on national TV, to keep the "boat people" away.

What won't get a mention is that a lot of "refugees" will arrive by cheap plane flights and then overstay their visas.

What I suspect is REALLY happening is Dutton hasn't the balls to back down and admit the whole thing is a disaster and should be abandoned immediately. And being basically a thick-headed Queensland beat-policemen, he hasn't the foggiest clue what a better solution might be. He is just going to enforce the current solution ruthlessly because that's all he can conceive of doing.
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Old 19th June 2019, 05:17 PM   #1500
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Why haven't you explored the option of just sinking the boats once they reach Australian waters? You've got all those fancy boats and weapons - a quick burst with a Gatling Gun cannon just below the waterline would do the job nicely. 12 miles out, they won't make it to shore, and think of the positive effect on sharks!

After all, this is a war - the war of economic refugees, to be precise, and you're allowed to shoot invaders who cross that line. Problem solved.

It won't take too many mass drownings and shark feasts to cut the queues.

Don't tell me Dutton wouldn't come in his pants if he could bring that in.
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Old 19th June 2019, 06:38 PM   #1501
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Why haven't you explored the option of just sinking the boats once they reach Australian waters? You've got all those fancy boats and weapons - a quick burst with a Gatling Gun cannon just below the waterline would do the job nicely. 12 miles out, they won't make it to shore, and think of the positive effect on sharks!
You joke, but a couple of elections ago, the Advance Australia party advocated exactly that.

Not directly, of course. There were two parts of the platform. One was to declare anyone who tried to "invade" Australian shores by boat to be an enemy combatant, and the other was to declare that deadly force was always acceptable against enemy combatants. Something like that anyway. Taken together they amounted to "shoot the boat people".
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Old 19th June 2019, 06:46 PM   #1502
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Why haven't you explored the option of just sinking the boats once they reach Australian waters? You've got all those fancy boats and weapons - a quick burst with a Gatling Gun cannon just below the waterline would do the job nicely. 12 miles out, they won't make it to shore, and think of the positive effect on sharks!

After all, this is a war - the war of economic refugees, to be precise, and you're allowed to shoot invaders who cross that line. Problem solved.

It won't take too many mass drownings and shark feasts to cut the queues.

Don't tell me Dutton wouldn't come in his pants if he could bring that in.
It’s not like America would be calling for sanctions against us for it.
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Old 19th June 2019, 09:17 PM   #1503
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You joke, but a couple of elections ago, the Advance Australia party advocated exactly that.
If any country would try that approach, Aussie would be at short odds.

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
It’s not like America would be calling for sanctions against us for it.
Sad, but true.
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Old 19th June 2019, 11:06 PM   #1504
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Don't tell me Dutton wouldn't come in his pants if he could bring that in.
Doubt it. Dutton was one of the paper-bag fetchers in the Bjelke-Peterson days. He would batton-crack a hippie's skull if told to and not bat an eyelid. But I suspect he hasn't the real balls to go do some genuine shooting of people on his own initiative. He's just doing this policeman thing with offshore detention. He didn't think it up; he just enforces it.
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Old 20th June 2019, 01:48 PM   #1505
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It's just that Dutton can see no other solution, other than dropping them from helicopters or public executions on national TV, to keep the "boat people" away.

What won't get a mention is that a lot of "refugees" will arrive by cheap plane flights and then overstay their visas.

What I suspect is REALLY happening is Dutton hasn't the balls to back down and admit the whole thing is a disaster and should be abandoned immediately. And being basically a thick-headed Queensland beat-policemen, he hasn't the foggiest clue what a better solution might be. He is just going to enforce the current solution ruthlessly because that's all he can conceive of doing.

No argument from me regarding that dick Dutton but what I can't understand, and cannot get an answer to, is why dicks like Dutton harp on the issue of not letting boat people into our country for any reason, while banging the deterrent drum, but don't have an issue with boat people going to the USA.

The deterrent angle, as I understand it, is that boat people should not get a happy ending if they arrive here by boat. Is not going to another Western country, other than Australia, a happy ending?

I have asked this question of deterrent endorsing folk, and cannot get any sort of coherent answer. All I get is shuffling feet and chanting of "we must stop the boats" like a kind of mantra.
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Old 21st June 2019, 07:38 PM   #1506
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Not much point in having such details on the birth certificate. I do suggest that they include some fingerprint or toeprint or other unique identifier so that it can be proved later that you are the same person named in the birth certificate.
Why? Beyond it’s use to facilitate a Big Brother-style totalitarian control over the population such as China’s Social Credit System does?

I objected to UK ID cards while living there and was horrified by successive government’s Home Office abuses against people who deserved compassion and protection by a supposedly “civilised” nation.

I was equally concerned about the creation of Dutton’s Home Affairs super-department, modelled on an aggressively militarised Homeland Security division with all the accompanying personal freedom abuses.

And yes, I opted out of the My Health Record system, mostly because of governments track record on inability to protect personal information, but just as much the ability for data “abuse” by third parties as well as unrelated government departments. [/rant]
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Old 22nd June 2019, 05:00 AM   #1507
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Why? Beyond it’s use to facilitate a Big Brother-style totalitarian control over the population such as China’s Social Credit System does?

I objected to UK ID cards while living there and was horrified by successive government’s Home Office abuses against people who deserved compassion and protection by a supposedly “civilised” nation.

I was equally concerned about the creation of Dutton’s Home Affairs super-department, modelled on an aggressively militarised Homeland Security division with all the accompanying personal freedom abuses.

And yes, I opted out of the My Health Record system, mostly because of governments track record on inability to protect personal information, but just as much the ability for data “abuse” by third parties as well as unrelated government departments. [/rant]
For easy identification. Currently it is easy to get another identity. Get a birth certificate, tell your utilities that your name matches what is on the birth certificate, then get a proof of age card or other photo id, then get a passport (details vary depending on where you live). So you then have a new id. But it would be good to be able to walk into a bank and say your name was such and such and they can verify who you are with 100% accuracy.

Not interested in China's Social credit system. That is another issue that requires CCTV cameras to id you.
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Old 27th June 2019, 03:57 PM   #1508
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So, Scott Morrison has met with Donald Trump at a dinner meeting in Osaka, Japan.

Sitting across the table they avow their undying love for each other - very touching. No hint of the stern words we might have been expecting, about the detrimental effect of the trade stoush with China.
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Old 27th June 2019, 04:16 PM   #1509
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Kathy Wilcox’s cartoon take in the meeting:
https://twitter.com/cathywilcox1/sta...373377024?s=21
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Old 27th June 2019, 04:36 PM   #1510
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
No hint of the stern words we might have been expecting, about the detrimental effect of the trade stoush with China.
Has there been any detrimental effect on Australia so far?
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Old 27th June 2019, 05:02 PM   #1511
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Has there been any detrimental effect on Australia so far?

Well Scomo seems to think there has been or will be:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...amage/11246486

Quote:
The US-China trade war has caused "collateral damage" around the world, according to Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who will today warn the global trading system is under real pressure as the relationship between the countries continues to deteriorate.
Australia, and even New Zealand, are part of the world. Anyway Scott (Bootlaces) Morrison, doesn't seem to be in a hurry to broach the subject directly with Trump. Just makes some noises at home to impress the local crowd. Sort of reminds me of Abbot's threat to "shirtfront" different folk. Just hot air.
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Old 27th June 2019, 07:01 PM   #1512
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Just hot air.
Exactly.

The answer was "none".

Lot of mights and maybes but no actual detriment.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:45 PM   #1513
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The new parliament is being sworn in as we speak. Tony Smith has been elected Speaker of the House, and Scott Ryan is President of the Senate.

Strap yourselves in. It's going to be a bumpy four years.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:51 PM   #1514
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Strap yourselves in. It's going to be a bumpy four years.
I thought that it was going to be a smooth ride for the Morrison government. In spite of its chest thumping, Labor is already set to cave on the tax cuts for the wealthy issue.

And when did we get 4 year terms?
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:11 PM   #1515
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I thought that it was going to be a smooth ride for the Morrison government. In spite of its chest thumping, Labor is already set to cave on the tax cuts for the wealthy issue.

And when did we get 4 year terms?
Sorry, slip of the fingers. I've been watching too much Colbert.
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:14 PM   #1516
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I thought that it was going to be a smooth ride for the Morrison government. In spite of its chest thumping, Labor is already set to cave on the tax cuts for the wealthy issue.
If the LNP have a majority, what has Labor got to do with it anyway? They will rant, yes. But can they actually stop it?

Quote:
And when did we get 4 year terms?
Yeah, point. At the rate things are going for the LNP, might be lucky to make Christmas before we are back at the polls again.
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:39 PM   #1517
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
If the LNP have a majority, what has Labor got to do with it anyway? They will rant, yes. But can they actually stop it?

Yeah, point. At the rate things are going for the LNP, might be lucky to make Christmas before we are back at the polls again.
Remember the LNP does not have a majority in the upper house. So either Labor or the minor parties supports a bill, or it does not get passed.
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:58 PM   #1518
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They're not going to get much pushback from Labor on most things.
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Old 1st July 2019, 11:49 PM   #1519
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
At the rate things are going for the LNP, might be lucky to make Christmas before we are back at the polls again.
Nah, ScoMo managed to make the LNP boring even before the election and boring is good for an incumbent government.

The only way that the LNP will go to the polls before its term expires is if Labor and the independents vote down a budget bill in the Senate. If they tried that then I suspect that the election would be a landslide for ScoMo.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:03 AM   #1520
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Remember the LNP does not have a majority in the upper house. So either Labor or the minor parties supports a bill, or it does not get passed.
So ScoMo needs to get his Convincing Argument boots on. Not the dainty slippers he seems to fancy.
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