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Old 15th November 2021, 12:52 AM   #1
Puppycow
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Democrats and Inequality

This video from the New York Times is pretty damning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw

Quote:
It’s easy to blame the other side. And for many Democrats, it’s obvious that Republicans are thwarting progress toward a more equal society.

But what happens when Republicans aren’t standing in the way?

In many states — including California, New York and Illinois — Democrats control all the levers of power. They run the government. They write the laws. And as we explore in the video above, they often aren’t living up to their values.

In key respects, many blue states are actually doing worse than red states. It is in the blue states where affordable housing is often hardest to find, there are some of the most acute disparities in education funding and economic inequality is increasing most quickly.

Instead of asking, “What’s the matter with Kansas?” Democrats need to spend more time pondering, “What’s the matter with California?”
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Old 15th November 2021, 01:47 AM   #2
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Boy, I bet that's going down like a cup of cold sick.
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Old 15th November 2021, 02:54 AM   #3
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From what I read and see...seems right. The social aspects of governance seems to have been completely left to rust away in the US.
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Old 15th November 2021, 05:54 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Checks out, though.

It's one thing to say you want to end inequality, quite another to welcome riff-raff into your gated neighborhood.
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Old 15th November 2021, 06:37 AM   #5
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It's another showcase of how the Democratic Party is not a single party, but a loose association of many: some of Democrats are happy with the way things are and only care about reelection.
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Old 15th November 2021, 07:50 AM   #6
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"Democrats aren't well organized."

//Deadpan// Wow what a truth bomb. It's not like 50 billion played out one liners already exist to say the same thing. This a paradigm shift on the level of Relativity or Quantum Dynamics. Please wait while I smack my gob and totally adjust my world view for this new and shocking information.
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Old 15th November 2021, 08:37 AM   #7
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If there's one thing I know about Democrats, it's this: Unlike the Republicans, they aren't actively trying to kill me.
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Old 15th November 2021, 08:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
If there's one thing I know about Democrats, it's this: Unlike the Republicans, they aren't actively trying to kill me.
And they aren't factually wrong about literally everything and proud of it.

I don't know about you but that's two pretty big check marks in the plus column.

My only point was I'm fairly confident in saying that "Democrats aren't exactly masters of political organization" is shocking to exactly zero people.
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Old 15th November 2021, 08:55 AM   #9
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NIMBY liberalism isn't some revelation. It's surprising the Times is putting it front and center, though. The cynic in me thinks it's just an attempt to reach out to what they perceive as an exodus of right-wingers. and attempt to "reach across the aisle".

But, there has been a growing hope in me that the voices that want to force the leadership in the party to actually hold to their stated values are finally breaking through.
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Old 15th November 2021, 09:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
This video from the New York Times is pretty damning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw
Is there a transcript for those who don't want to sit through a video?

Michael Shellenberger's San Fransicko seems to delve into some of this pretty deeply - the large homeless camps in many cities, the inter-relationships between mental health, drug addiction, and homelessness and how current liberal/progressive dogma on some of those issues may be doing more harm than good. This in cities and states with strong, largely unchallenged Democratic leadership, often from the left wing of the party.

Or so I get from reading Shellenberger's facebook posts and tweets - I have not yet read the book but am thinking of getting it. He comes across as a bit of a contrarian, but one who comes from a more left of center worldview, like Michael Moore or Bill Maher. I mean, when he tears down the left, he seems to view that as working to improve his own side rather than to tear down the other side - maybe. He's a bit on the edge of some things.

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Old 15th November 2021, 09:33 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Or so I get from reading Shellenberger's facebook posts and tweets - I have not yet read the book but am thinking of getting it.
He's also on a Joe Rogan episode in case you didn't know. I haven't read the book, but I saw a bit of the podcast, and I've actually lived in San Fransicko for about 20 years so I'm familiar with the subject matter.
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Old 15th November 2021, 09:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by crescent;13655746 This in cities and states with strong, largely unchallenged Democratic leadership, [B
often from the left wing of the party.[/b]
I think that is very debatable. Even big, commie, liberal, progressive Utopias like NYC and SF don't really vote in progressives. They are still very much in the hands of moderates/centrists.

While they may give lip service to progressives, in the end, they still route things back to neoliberalism.
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Old 15th November 2021, 10:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
But, there has been a growing hope in me that the voices that want to force the leadership in the party to actually hold to their stated values are finally breaking through.
Party leadership don't actually get much of a say in local zoning, at least not in the examples from the video.

To move past NIMBYism, we have to work from the grassroots up.
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Old 15th November 2021, 10:41 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Party leadership don't actually get much of a say in local zoning, at least not in the examples from the video.

To move past NIMBYism, we have to work from the grassroots up.
True, but they do have a big say in messaging. They can push for a change in culture. And maybe not go out of their way to shank actual progressive movements and candidates.
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Old 15th November 2021, 11:04 AM   #15
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Old 15th November 2021, 01:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
This video from the New York Times is pretty damning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw...

Quote:
But what happens when Republicans aren’t standing in the way?
Don't have the time or frame of mind to watch the video right now, but where is this true?
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Old 15th November 2021, 02:00 PM   #17
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I almost created a thread about it a couple of days ago, but I've been too busy. Democrats are hypocrites, although I don't think the video notes that California has the most progressive state income tax in the country. There's also the issue of a race-to-the-bottom, which makes it difficult to effect change at the state and local levels. New Jersey used to collect tens of millions in taxes from a hedge fund guy, but he eventually flew south to Florida. You're also going to see more inequality where there's more advanced capitalism -- and that's in cities. The San Francisco Bay Area has a bigger economy than 90% of states.

As for the housing crisis, the traditional solution in California was to build further and further out and have people drive to work, but the freeways are too congested. There was also a provocative article in The Atlantic a few weeks ago about new meth fueling the homelessness crisis.
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Old 15th November 2021, 05:05 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Don't have the time or frame of mind to watch the video right now, but where is this true?
Any state where the Democrats control all the levers of power: the governorship, the state legislature, major city governments. California, Washington and Illinois are among the states mentioned. Washington State in particular has the most regressive tax system in the country. More regressive than any red state.
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Old 15th November 2021, 06:50 PM   #19
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It's worth considering the fact that these States are all pay a lot of Federal tax yet receive comparatively little Federal spending in return. From 2015 - 2019
New York paid $142 billion more in taxes than it received in Federal spending, California paid $43 billion more, and Illinois paid $16 billion more.

In comparison Texas Received $60 billion more than int spend, Florida received $183 billion more than it spent and Kentucky received $211 billion more than it spent.

On top of that Republican States have a pretty consistent track record of exporting their social problems so they need to be paid for by someone else, which usually means a Democratic State.
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Old 15th November 2021, 07:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Any state where the Democrats control all the levers of power: the governorship, the state legislature, major city governments. California, Washington and Illinois are among the states mentioned. Washington State in particular has the most regressive tax system in the country. More regressive than any red state.
That's a comparison of low to high incomes and which level pays the most taxes. And it shows that the top earners, the millionaire and billionaire class, manages to pay just one tenth the rate of lower income earners. So yes, the tax burden is greatly skewed downwards.

Of course, it might be a different measure if certain residents of Washington state paid their tax bills. Let's look at the top 10 companies based there based on number of employees:

Amazon.com
Starbucks
Costco Wholesale
Providence Health & Services
Barrett Business Services
Nordstrom
Microsoft
T-Mobile US
The Hotel Group
Avanade

Top of the list is the USA's worst serial tax dodger...
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Old 15th November 2021, 08:01 PM   #21
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In other words, the biggest cities are where the riches people live, which makes the gap between the richest and poorest bigger there, with the predictably associated differences in school district funding. (And another direct result of having the richest people & companies there is more political bribery because there's more money to bribe politicians with.)

...Just like the fact that housing is more expensive there because that's where are more people but less space to house them in...

Righties' claims about things being worse in "Democrat-run" cities always boil down to simple geography & demography, not policy or culture.

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Old 15th November 2021, 08:37 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
In other words, the biggest cities are where the riches people live, which makes the gap between the richest and poorest bigger there, with the predictably associated differences in school district funding.
Why would we choose to tie school funding to the local tax base, when we could allocate resources equitably across the entire city?
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Old 16th November 2021, 05:34 AM   #23
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"Everything Democrats try to do is Socialism!"
to
"Democrats aren't as Socialist as we think!"

With nary an introspective glance in between.
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Old 16th November 2021, 05:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
"Everything Democrats try to do is Socialism!"
to
"Democrats aren't as Socialist as we think!"
I'd be awfully surprised to see the first quote (or anything substantively similar) from NYT Opinion, but the second one seems about right.
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Old 16th November 2021, 06:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Why would we choose to tie school funding to the local tax base, when we could allocate resources equitably across the entire city?
Because some people hate the notion that their money is going to someone else's benefit.
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Old 16th November 2021, 06:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
"Everything Democrats try to do is Socialism!"
to
"Democrats aren't as Socialist as we think!"

With nary an introspective glance in between.
As we often note from far away both the USA parties are right wing parties, one is a conservative right-wing party the other is a liberal right-wing party. And "liberal" is not a synonym for "socialist".

That the liberal one isn't - quite - as dysfunctional as the conservative one also doesn't mean they don't want right-wing policies.
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Old 16th November 2021, 02:26 PM   #27
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Oh that guy. Zoning has very little to do with parties. The poverty does exist in cities and there is a housing problem. But neither party would support crowded apartment/condo housing European style. It is the voters in those areas that resist it. Both parties. They think apartment buildings turn an area into a slum.

Apartment houses in the red states are 2-3 story units. We have a cluster of them a mile from my house. Right by the Walmart and fast foods. Town house apartments with your own garage are preferred. Our city has 250 000 people.
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Old 18th November 2021, 04:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
As we often note from far away both the USA parties are right wing parties, one is a conservative right-wing party the other is a liberal right-wing party. And "liberal" is not a synonym for "socialist".

That the liberal one isn't - quite - as dysfunctional as the conservative one also doesn't mean they don't want right-wing policies.
However, the liberal right-wing does work hard to ensure that the more progressive voices are effectively muffled and constantly told to "be nice," while coddling the kooks on the other side.
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Old 18th November 2021, 04:18 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
However, the liberal right-wing does work hard to ensure that the more progressive voices are effectively muffled and constantly told to "be nice," while coddling the kooks on the other side.
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