[Split Thread] Trump Document indictment (as opposed to other indictments) - Page 25

Skeptic Ginger · 18th September 2023, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by carlosy

Well, as Stalin said: One lie is an atrocity. Thousands of lies are a statistic.

And a claim that misremembering the day you went to the Twin Towers site was an actual lie is absurd.

Stop falling for the MAGA narratives, it's unbecoming.

The Great Zaganza · 18th September 2023, 12:35 AM

"I'm just quoting what someone (who I told to say it) said!"

is a sad excuse for anyone to use in defence of obvious lies.

gabeygoat · 18th September 2023, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

And a claim that misremembering the day you went to the Twin Towers site was an actual lie is absurd.

Stop falling for the MAGA narratives, it's unbecoming.

I think you're mis-reading their comments.

Orphia Nay · 18th September 2023, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

I think you're mis-reading their comments.

I do too.

Skeptic Ginger · 18th September 2023, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

I think you're mis-reading their comments.

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

I do too.

I think you two might not understand what I said.

Trump told many outright lies about what he did on and soon after 9/11. And he projected as he has been doing on a daily basis that it was Biden who lied about 9/11.

Biden said he'd gone to the site the day after when supposedly it was 9 days after. That in no way makes Trump's attack on Biden correct.

So why claim it did?

Originally Posted by gnome

Just for accuracy pointing out that Trump's statement was based on a real story, as opposed to the things he makes up entirely.

Trump was not accurate. This is from that same fact check article:

Quote:

The morning after Biden made his statement in Alaska, former President Donald Trump posted on social media that Biden had been caught in “A TOTAL LIE (LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE HE SAYS!).”

“HE EVEN WENT INTO A BIG DEAL ABOUT THE HORRORS HE SAW WHILE THERE, HOW TRAGIC A SIGHT IT WAS,” Trump wrote, in all caps. “REMEMBER, HE WASN’T THERE!”

"Wasn't there" as in Biden was never there.

I don't recall Trump's exact words on the Meet the Press interview but I'm sure it was similar.

To claim what Trump said about Biden had some truth to it because Biden got the day he was there wrong is crap. I see no reason to normalize Trump's incessant projection under such stretched reasoning.

gnome · 18th September 2023, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

To claim what Trump said about Biden had some truth to it because Biden got the day he was there wrong is crap. I see no reason to normalize Trump's incessant projection under such stretched reasoning.

I don't think it is normalizing it. At least my intent was preparing people to be able to respond and not be blindsided when someone throws that story at them in defense. This way they're already familiar and can understand that it doesn't support Trump's phrasing.

Segnosaur · 18th September 2023, 02:07 PM

Trump apparently wrote "to do" notes for his assistants, using classified documents as scrap paper.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-wrot...201255235.html

The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down.

Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk

TragicMonkey · 18th September 2023, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Trump apparently wrote "to do" notes for his assistants, using classified documents as scrap paper.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-wrot...201255235.html

The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down.

Front side: "Kremlin moles sending military information".
Back side: "5 cheezburgars wit xtr cheeze, supersise milkshake, frys, ketchup."

Stacyhs · 18th September 2023, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Trump apparently wrote "to do" notes for his assistants, using classified documents as scrap paper.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-wrot...201255235.html

The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down.

Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk

I'm sure Donnie had mentally declassified those documents and was just being environmentally responsible by recycling them as scratch paper. THINK OF THE TREES!

acbytesla · 18th September 2023, 03:06 PM

You have to wonder, just how far Judge Cannon will go to save Trump.

The documents case keeps looking worse and worse for Trump. His assistant not only said that Trump wrote notes on the classified dicuments. She expressed her concerns to Trump and he told her to say she knew nothing about the boxes. So here we now have his assistant, his lawyer and his IT director testifying that Trump obstructed justice.

Ouch.

Stacyhs · 18th September 2023, 04:35 PM

Which will make absolutely zero difference to MAGATS.

Asking MAGATS if they would still support him if he shot someone in the middle of 5th Ave.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

JayUtah · 18th September 2023, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down.

Trump can write?

Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that.

arthwollipot · 18th September 2023, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Trump can write?

Only in Sharpie.

Stacyhs · 18th September 2023, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Trump can write?

Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that.

You're looking for 'sense' from TRUMP?

ZiprHead · 18th September 2023, 06:30 PM

Trump wrote to-do lists for assistant on White House documents marked classified: Sources

This just keeps getting worse.

TragicMonkey · 18th September 2023, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

You're looking for 'sense' from TRUMP?

The man who tried to stare into a solar eclipse...

JayUtah · 18th September 2023, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Only in Sharpie.

...or ketchup.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

You're looking for 'sense' from TRUMP?

I suppose not, but with my "I talk to too many lawyers" hat on, I wonder what this implies for the prosecution. We have plenty of evidence that Trump considered the classified documents he retained valuable enough to commit multiple unlawful acts to prevent them from being discovered and returned to NARA, and to prevent discovery of his attempts to hide and move them. This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on.

Aridas · 18th September 2023, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

I suppose not, but with my "I talk to too many lawyers" hat on, I wonder what this implies for the prosecution. We have plenty of evidence that Trump considered the classified documents he retained valuable enough to commit multiple unlawful acts to prevent them from being discovered and returned to NARA, and to prevent discovery of his attempts to hide and move them. This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on.

It could easily be explained by the observations that Trump regarding those documents as "his" to do with as he pleased. Further, under that presumption, it's not actually hard to imagine a scenario where Trump was actively keeping some in his office, then just unthinkingly used it as scrap paper.

Stacyhs · 19th September 2023, 12:50 AM

Trump's narcissism could also have come into play. By using confidential documents as scrap paper to send messages to is aides, it could have fed his feelings of omnipotency.

arthwollipot · 19th September 2023, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Trump's narcissism could also have come into play. By using confidential documents as scrap paper to send messages to is aides, it could have fed his feelings of omnipotency.

Or maybe he just didn't care and grabbed whatever piece of paper was to hand.

The Great Zaganza · 19th September 2023, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Trump's narcissism could also have come into play. By using confidential documents as scrap paper to send messages to is aides, it could have fed his feelings of omnipotency.

I think it's a strategy he learned from Roy Cohn, which is like when he showed the Iran intel to some GOP operatives: by doing something quite blatantly illegal openly to people, he makes them accomplices, and thus binds them to him.

P.J. Denyer · 19th September 2023, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Trump can write?

Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that.

It screams of "Hoarder" behaviour to me.

P.J. Denyer · 19th September 2023, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

The man who tried to stare into a solar eclipse...

He was trying to stare it down...

Mongrel · 19th September 2023, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on.

From the linked story it sounds like these are the flash cards they to keep his attention at the daily security briefings. He may well have regarded them as less important because of that

newyorkguy · 19th September 2023, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Which will make absolutely zero difference to MAGATS.

Asking MAGATS if they would still support him if he shot someone in the middle of 5th Ave.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I found these interviews to be very interesting. They tie in to something that was quoted here recently. (I'm not sure what thread it was in.) That the people who identify as MAGAs aren't motivated by any deep-seated political beliefs so much as personal traits, namely aggression and belligerence. They seek and unquestioningly support candidates and elected officials who behave aggressively and belligerently. That strikes me as very true.

Consider the two interviewees pictured below, interviewed as to whether they would still vote for trump if he "shot someone on 5th Avenue." They both responded aggressively and belligerently. The man on the left asked the interviewer did she mean if trump shot her? Maybe for using "too much teeth" during "oral play." The man on the right said that "the Clintons have had people murdered."

This explains why these people accept without reservation trump's blathering. trump characterizes his various indictments as persecution. All the prosecutors handling his cases are corrupt, retarded, moronic. They are furthering a secret Biden Administration agenda. All of the judges in his various cases are corrupt, evil, they personally despise donald trump and are working to bring about his demise. And not some of them, all of them. I have always found it difficult to understand that people, who seem so cynical, can accept all this nonsense from trump without ever asking any questions. Now I understand it.

trump is aggressive and belligerent. For the MAGA crowd, that's all that counts. That appears to be very accurate.

Stacyhs · 19th September 2023, 12:08 PM

Danny Collins, a former hardcore Trump supporter, explains why he no longer supports Trump: "Because he made me realize how horrible of a person I really was."

Quote:

Danny Collins said he used to agree with Trump's words, then realized they reflected the "worst" of himself.

Collins said he "drank the juice" and "joined the cult."
"I was on the Trump train, baby," he said.

Quote:

"All of those internalized beliefs, the worst of me that I used to keep suppressed, he brought to the surface," he said. "He showed me how much of a racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, woman-hating, Christian white nationalist I truly was."

He said he felt Trump's slogan, Make America Great Again, with "every fiber" of his being.

"And he made me believe as a white, straight Christian male, that I was under attack, that I was being discriminated against in America today," he said.

Collins said he was an inmate in the Florida Department of Corrections for 10 years and was never tempted to join a gang until he was convinced that "the white man was under attack."

In 2021, he was an inmate at the New River Correctional Institution and was "cheering" on the crowd during the January 6 US Capitol attack while in the TV room. He said at that time, he believed people were taking their country back.

Quote:

"You know what I hate most about Donald Trump? Is that I actually believed the lie," Collins said. "I believed that he actually cared about me, the poor, common folk. I hate that he brought out the worst in me and everybody else that I was closely associated with."

Collins started to change his perspective thanks to a friend he made in prison, who was a Black Muslim man. He realized that everything he identified in Trump was reflected in something in himself.

"He didn't make me be a bad person — he just emboldened me to be the person I already was," he said. "Donald Trump appeals to the worst of America. In 2024, we need to bring out the best of America."

JayUtah · 19th September 2023, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mongrel

From the linked story it sounds like these are the flash cards they to keep his attention at the daily security briefings. He may well have regarded them as less important because of that

Oh, thanks, that's a much more parsimonious interpretation.

Regnad Kcin · 19th September 2023, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

The man who tried to stare into a solar eclipse...

~~Chuck Norris~~ Trump has suns stare into him.

quadraginta · 20th September 2023, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

[snip]

I suppose not, but with my "I talk to too many lawyers" hat on, I wonder what this implies for the prosecution. We have plenty of evidence that Trump considered the classified documents he retained valuable enough to commit multiple unlawful acts to prevent them from being discovered and returned to NARA, and to prevent discovery of his attempts to hide and move them. This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on.

I think I see where you went astray here.

Gulliver Foyle · 21st September 2023, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Trump can write?

Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that.

Simple, the documents he thought he could sell to the US's enemies he kept safely in his toilet. The rest were relegated to using for instructions to his minions (which I and reasonably sure included "ad mor sicrat boo's" at least once).

18th September 2023, 12:35 AM	#962
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 20,803	"I'm just quoting what someone (who I told to say it) said!" is a sad excuse for anyone to use in defence of obvious lies.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 18th September 2023 at 01:06 AM.

18th September 2023, 12:43 AM	#963
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,723	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger And a claim that misremembering the day you went to the Twin Towers site was an actual lie is absurd. Stop falling for the MAGA narratives, it's unbecoming. I think you're mis-reading their comments.
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

18th September 2023, 07:25 AM	#965
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 95,223	Originally Posted by gabeygoat I think you're mis-reading their comments. Originally Posted by Orphia Nay I do too. I think you two might not understand what I said. Trump told many outright lies about what he did on and soon after 9/11. And he projected as he has been doing on a daily basis that it was Biden who lied about 9/11. Biden said he'd gone to the site the day after when supposedly it was 9 days after. That in no way makes Trump's attack on Biden correct. So why claim it did? Originally Posted by gnome Just for accuracy pointing out that Trump's statement was based on a real story, as opposed to the things he makes up entirely. Trump was not accurate. This is from that same fact check article: Quote: The morning after Biden made his statement in Alaska, former President Donald Trump posted on social media that Biden had been caught in “A TOTAL LIE (LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE HE SAYS!).” “HE EVEN WENT INTO A BIG DEAL ABOUT THE HORRORS HE SAW WHILE THERE, HOW TRAGIC A SIGHT IT WAS,” Trump wrote, in all caps. “REMEMBER, HE WASN’T THERE!” "Wasn't there" as in Biden was never there. I don't recall Trump's exact words on the Meet the Press interview but I'm sure it was similar. To claim what Trump said about Biden had some truth to it because Biden got the day he was there wrong is crap. I see no reason to normalize Trump's incessant projection under such stretched reasoning.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 18th September 2023 at 07:29 AM.

18th September 2023, 08:15 AM	#966
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,317	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger To claim what Trump said about Biden had some truth to it because Biden got the day he was there wrong is crap. I see no reason to normalize Trump's incessant projection under such stretched reasoning. I don't think it is normalizing it. At least my intent was preparing people to be able to respond and not be blindsided when someone throws that story at them in defense. This way they're already familiar and can understand that it doesn't support Trump's phrasing.
	__________________

18th September 2023, 02:07 PM	#967
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 20,313	Trump apparently wrote "to do" notes for his assistants, using classified documents as scrap paper. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-wrot...201255235.html The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down. Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

18th September 2023, 12:22 AM	#961
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 95,223	Originally Posted by carlosy Well, as Stalin said: One lie is an atrocity. Thousands of lies are a statistic. And a claim that misremembering the day you went to the Twin Towers site was an actual lie is absurd. Stop falling for the MAGA narratives, it's unbecoming.

18th September 2023, 12:48 AM	#964
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 43,417	Originally Posted by gabeygoat I think you're mis-reading their comments. I do too.

18th September 2023, 02:19 PM	#968
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 67,160	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Trump apparently wrote "to do" notes for his assistants, using classified documents as scrap paper. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-wrot...201255235.html The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down. Front side: "Kremlin moles sending military information". Back side: "5 cheezburgars wit xtr cheeze, supersise milkshake, frys, ketchup."
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

18th September 2023, 02:48 PM	#969
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 31,719	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Trump apparently wrote "to do" notes for his assistants, using classified documents as scrap paper. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-wrot...201255235.html The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down. Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk I'm sure Donnie had mentally declassified those documents and was just being environmentally responsible by recycling them as scratch paper. THINK OF THE TREES!

18th September 2023, 03:06 PM	#970
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 32,529	You have to wonder, just how far Judge Cannon will go to save Trump. The documents case keeps looking worse and worse for Trump. His assistant not only said that Trump wrote notes on the classified dicuments. She expressed her concerns to Trump and he told her to say she knew nothing about the boxes. So here we now have his assistant, his lawyer and his IT director testifying that Trump obstructed justice. Ouch.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

18th September 2023, 06:07 PM	#972
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 23,513	Originally Posted by Segnosaur The most shocking part of this is not that Trump did something that was risky for national security, but that he actually bothered to write ANYTHING down. Trump can write? Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that.

18th September 2023, 06:16 PM	#973
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	Originally Posted by JayUtah Trump can write? Only in Sharpie.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

18th September 2023, 06:18 PM	#974
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 31,719	Originally Posted by JayUtah Trump can write? Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that. You're looking for 'sense' from TRUMP?

18th September 2023, 06:30 PM	#975
ZiprHead Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sag-Nasty Posts: 1,056	Trump wrote to-do lists for assistant on White House documents marked classified: Sources This just keeps getting worse.
	__________________ When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy. IIDB is back, baby!

18th September 2023, 06:37 PM	#976
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 67,160	Originally Posted by Stacyhs You're looking for 'sense' from TRUMP? The man who tried to stare into a solar eclipse...
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

18th September 2023, 06:52 PM	#977
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 23,513	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Only in Sharpie. ...or ketchup. Originally Posted by Stacyhs You're looking for 'sense' from TRUMP? I suppose not, but with my "I talk to too many lawyers" hat on, I wonder what this implies for the prosecution. We have plenty of evidence that Trump considered the classified documents he retained valuable enough to commit multiple unlawful acts to prevent them from being discovered and returned to NARA, and to prevent discovery of his attempts to hide and move them. This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on.
	Last edited by JayUtah; 18th September 2023 at 07:21 PM.

18th September 2023, 08:57 PM	#978
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 10,276	Originally Posted by JayUtah I suppose not, but with my "I talk to too many lawyers" hat on, I wonder what this implies for the prosecution. We have plenty of evidence that Trump considered the classified documents he retained valuable enough to commit multiple unlawful acts to prevent them from being discovered and returned to NARA, and to prevent discovery of his attempts to hide and move them. This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on. It could easily be explained by the observations that Trump regarding those documents as "his" to do with as he pleased. Further, under that presumption, it's not actually hard to imagine a scenario where Trump was actively keeping some in his office, then just unthinkingly used it as scrap paper.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

19th September 2023, 12:50 AM	#979
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 31,719	Trump's narcissism could also have come into play. By using confidential documents as scrap paper to send messages to is aides, it could have fed his feelings of omnipotency.

19th September 2023, 01:03 AM	#980
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,591	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Trump's narcissism could also have come into play. By using confidential documents as scrap paper to send messages to is aides, it could have fed his feelings of omnipotency. Or maybe he just didn't care and grabbed whatever piece of paper was to hand.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

19th September 2023, 01:06 AM	#981
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 20,803	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Trump's narcissism could also have come into play. By using confidential documents as scrap paper to send messages to is aides, it could have fed his feelings of omnipotency. I think it's a strategy he learned from Roy Cohn, which is like when he showed the Iran intel to some GOP operatives: by doing something quite blatantly illegal openly to people, he makes them accomplices, and thus binds them to him.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”

19th September 2023, 02:38 AM	#982
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,577	Originally Posted by JayUtah Trump can write? Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that. It screams of "Hoarder" behaviour to me.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,577	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

19th September 2023, 02:40 AM	#983
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,577	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey The man who tried to stare into a solar eclipse... He was trying to stare it down...
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,577	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

19th September 2023, 04:02 AM	#984
Mongrel Begging for Scraps Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: UK, suburbia. 20 minutes in the future Posts: 2,239	Originally Posted by JayUtah This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on. From the linked story it sounds like these are the flash cards they to keep his attention at the daily security briefings. He may well have regarded them as less important because of that
	__________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

19th September 2023, 12:08 PM	#986
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 31,719	Danny Collins, a former hardcore Trump supporter, explains why he no longer supports Trump: "Because he made me realize how horrible of a person I really was." Quote: Danny Collins said he used to agree with Trump's words, then realized they reflected the "worst" of himself. Collins said he "drank the juice" and "joined the cult." "I was on the Trump train, baby," he said. Quote: "All of those internalized beliefs, the worst of me that I used to keep suppressed, he brought to the surface," he said. "He showed me how much of a racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, woman-hating, Christian white nationalist I truly was." He said he felt Trump's slogan, Make America Great Again, with "every fiber" of his being. "And he made me believe as a white, straight Christian male, that I was under attack, that I was being discriminated against in America today," he said. Collins said he was an inmate in the Florida Department of Corrections for 10 years and was never tempted to join a gang until he was convinced that "the white man was under attack." In 2021, he was an inmate at the New River Correctional Institution and was "cheering" on the crowd during the January 6 US Capitol attack while in the TV room. He said at that time, he believed people were taking their country back. Quote: "You know what I hate most about Donald Trump? Is that I actually believed the lie," Collins said. "I believed that he actually cared about me, the poor, common folk. I hate that he brought out the worst in me and everybody else that I was closely associated with." Collins started to change his perspective thanks to a friend he made in prison, who was a Black Muslim man. He realized that everything he identified in Trump was reflected in something in himself. "He didn't make me be a bad person — he just emboldened me to be the person I already was," he said. "Donald Trump appeals to the worst of America. In 2024, we need to bring out the best of America."

19th September 2023, 03:24 PM	#987
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 23,513	Originally Posted by Mongrel From the linked story it sounds like these are the flash cards they to keep his attention at the daily security briefings. He may well have regarded them as less important because of that Oh, thanks, that's a much more parsimonious interpretation.

19th September 2023, 05:20 PM	#988
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The old Same place Posts: 10,961	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey The man who tried to stare into a solar eclipse... ~~Chuck Norris~~ Trump has suns stare into him.
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20th September 2023, 06:56 AM	#989
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 27,279	Originally Posted by JayUtah [snip] I suppose not, but with my "I talk to too many lawyers" hat on, I wonder what this implies for the prosecution. We have plenty of evidence that Trump considered the classified documents he retained valuable enough to commit multiple unlawful acts to prevent them from being discovered and returned to NARA, and to prevent discovery of his attempts to hide and move them. This new thing could look like Trump thought some classified documents were worth only the paper they were printed on. I think I see where you went astray here.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

21st September 2023, 12:22 AM	#990
Gulliver Foyle Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 2,503	Originally Posted by JayUtah Trump can write? Seriously this makes no sense to me. According to the indictment, Trump jealously guarded these documents. While he stored them haphazardly and moved them around, and while Banker's Boxes collapsed (as they do) with classified documents in them, I am struggling to see why he would, on the one hand, guard them so carefully and protect them from seizure or discovery, and then on the other hand use them as scratch paper. Surely Mar-A-Lago generates enough ordinary office refuse that's better suited to that. Simple, the documents he thought he could sell to the US's enemies he kept safely in his toilet. The rest were relegated to using for instructions to his minions (which I and reasonably sure included "ad mor sicrat boo's" at least once).
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