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Old 17th January 2022, 12:56 AM   #2801
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
So you want to stop studying viruses with pandemic potential in the hopes that will somehow make you safer? Do you realize how ridiculous that is?
What’s even more ridiculous is attacking the distinctions of different kinds of gain of function as if it were of no importance. The specific definition that paused certain types of gain of function was to allay fears that viruses studied in labs could escape and cause a pandemic. But if you remove all distinctions and say that no viral or bacterial gain of function experiments could be done then you presumably could not even make vaccines which clearly involve gain and/or loss of function to work.
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Old 17th January 2022, 12:16 PM   #2802
Skeptic Ginger
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Just an FYI: My comments were about the fruitless distraction arguing the semantics of what GoF was.

As for we needed that research, we don't have an irony meter big enough to address that comment.

And if the evidence was addressed without all the political interference, some of you might have noticed there were safety measures not followed in the research so far, and not just in Wuhan labs.

From memory those included things like providing a number of barriers between a potential lab leak and a dense population center. That was objected to as not feasible given the scientists at the labs would want to live in those urban population centers. And to that I say the internet could easily accommodate connections to said urban center. We have scientists now who spend months in Antartica and on the International Space Station. I'm sure we could recruit researchers willing to spend a few months away from home as they studied PPPs.

But we can't accomplish that without an honest evaluation of just how COVID 19 got out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 17th January 2022 at 12:19 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM   #2803
Reality Check
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just an FYI: My comments were about the fruitless distraction arguing the semantics of what GoF was.
...
And if the evidence was addressed without all the political interference, some of you might have noticed there were safety measures not followed in the research so far, and not just in Wuhan labs....
Skeptic Ginger's usual misinformation.
The discussion of what GoF is not semantics. The funding of GoF research at the WIV was based on a specific definition of GoF, apparently including the target of making the virus both more infectious and transmittable. WIV only researched making making the virus both more infectious.
We have no actual evidence that there were safety measures not followed at the Wuhan labs.
A fantasy that PPP's (potential pandemic pathogens) need to be studied in labs in Antarctica or the ISS.
A fantasy that there is no honest evaluation of just how COVID 19 got out. There are scientists honestly evaluating all of the evidence for the origin of COVID 19 such as whether the virus got out of a animal population or out of a lab. Currently the best evidence is still for a bat origin (such as the Laos bats with the closest match to the virus), an intermediate animal vector, and those animals ending up at the Wuhan market(s). This does not eliminate a lab leak.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 12:09 PM.
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Old Today, 10:37 PM   #2804
lomiller
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
What’s even more ridiculous is attacking the distinctions of different kinds of gain of function as if it were of no importance. The specific definition that paused certain types of gain of function was to allay fears that viruses studied in labs could escape and cause a pandemic. But if you remove all distinctions and say that no viral or bacterial gain of function experiments could be done then you presumably could not even make vaccines which clearly involve gain and/or loss of function to work.
Note that even for real GoF work, some of the most dangerous is considered essential in understanding what viruses present a pandemic risk to humans. The moratorium on it wasn't because the research isn't essential it was because some countries (but primarily the US) had no regulation or controls around it whatsoever.

GoF is really just a red herring that plays into the whole right wing "never trust science, scientists are evil" sentiment.
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