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1st March 2020, 12:11 PM | #401 |
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You really need someone to lay out Trump's tack record with COVID-19? I though news was carried by means faster than tramp steamers these days.
Are we, like you seem to be suggesting, supposed to do a system-wide memory reset on every little thing Trump engages with? Assign all past behavior as null and void? Assume from the word go that real presidential handling could obtain? I can't recall a single instance--or at least such are swamped by the sheer numbers--of other than idiotic bungling on all fronts with this man and his coterie of limpet-lipped enablers. |
1st March 2020, 12:24 PM | #402 |
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1st March 2020, 02:16 PM | #403 | |||
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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1st March 2020, 02:30 PM | #404 |
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Some of his supporters are probably hoping that this is the beginning of the apocalypse. Retirement accounts are dwindling due to stockmarket fears, but they may recover when much fewer retirees are left.
Quote:
I look forward to seeing Trump's Sharpie-'improved' world map of Covid-19 cases. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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1st March 2020, 02:49 PM | #405 |
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1st March 2020, 03:21 PM | #406 |
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All true.
Sadly, all we can really do is wait and see what happens in order to determine if he did it right. Clearly, he isn't going to actually do it right himself, and surely Pence has no special knowledge to get it right, either, but it is conceivable that Pence is actually getting the right people to do something behind the scenes, and it will work, or that there really isn't much danger anyway. If not very many people die, then Trump gets credit. If not, he ought to get blame. This is really a case where the President and only the President has the ability to make certain things happen. He really is in charge and he really is responsible for the outcome. And that's scary. However, if his response fails, he will lose the upcoming election, and we'll at least be rid of him at this time next year. I have no fear of any other outcome. |
1st March 2020, 03:24 PM | #407 | |||
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The weaponization of the coronavirus:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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1st March 2020, 04:20 PM | #408 |
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The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
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1st March 2020, 04:29 PM | #409 |
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1st March 2020, 04:53 PM | #410 |
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If a serious pandemic were to take hold, and murmurings of discontent emanate from some fraction of the base, does anyone imagine for a moment that for Trump the buck would stop with him? Ha! Others would be to blame and heads roll. He has no conception of the Leader taking responsibility, because he never takes *personal* responsibility.
And most folk can suspect what Donnie might undertake for his political survival. |
1st March 2020, 06:30 PM | #411 |
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1st March 2020, 08:27 PM | #412 |
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2nd March 2020, 01:46 AM | #413 |
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Evangelicals are given to believing that bad things are expressions of God's anger at the transgressions of heathens. If this virus makes sufficiently prevalent inroads, I only hope that those same hypocrites feel that their God is punishing *them* for their un-Christian veneration and hoisting to power of that truly Godless fake who worships only himself and lucre.
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2nd March 2020, 04:29 AM | #414 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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2nd March 2020, 04:38 AM | #415 |
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It seems to be working in Korea: Coronavirus: South Korea church leader apologises for virus spread (BBC News, March 2, 2020)
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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2nd March 2020, 04:44 AM | #416 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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2nd March 2020, 06:27 AM | #417 |
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How much is the president really in charge in respect to the number of deaths and how much is it outside of any leaders control? We live in a relatively free country, people move around pretty freely, etc. Unless we want to change that the virus will run it's course.
Should we have immediately locked down all travel from foreign countries? Do we want people forcibly locked in the homes like in China? Is this virus really that dangerous to warrant that? (I don't know but I doubt it). People can be educated about how the virus is spread and what can be done to mitigate that, work can be done toward anti virals and towards a vaccine. What is an example of a reasonable outcome for the US? 10 deaths, 100 deaths, 10,000 deaths. In the end wasn't the H1N1 virus responsible for over 10,000 deaths in the US? Unless the threat has been completely overblown how could the final toll be less than 1,000 even with the best of reactions? People were freely traveling from Wuhan and other places before the virus was really know but surely some travelers carried it to the US and it has been here for a while. |
2nd March 2020, 06:29 AM | #418 |
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2nd March 2020, 06:32 AM | #419 |
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According to Trump he has total control, unless the Deep State stops him.
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2nd March 2020, 06:50 AM | #420 |
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2nd March 2020, 07:09 AM | #421 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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2nd March 2020, 07:30 AM | #422 |
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2nd March 2020, 07:33 AM | #423 |
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2nd March 2020, 12:38 PM | #424 |
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I don't know either. I can't call any epidemiologist in the country and ask them. How many people can be tested? How quickly? How many people should be tested? Do we need emergency spending, or suspension of regulation, or waivers of liability?
I don't know any of those answers, and I have no way to find those answers. Donald Trump has the way to find the answers. I mentioned masks. Suppose in a few weeks, I need a mask, but no masks are available. Whose fault will it be? The answer is Donald Trump's fault. I won't look for a mask unless I need one. Donald Trump has, or can obtain, all the information he needs to determine whether there are enough masks and how to make sure they get to where they are needed. If there aren't enough, he can pick up the phone and tell the right people to make more, and make sure they are paid. And if it is absolutely impossible to do that for some reason he has the ability to confiscate supplies so that health care providers have them, and quarantine people who can't be protected. And I have no idea if that's even a good idea. What I know is that he has the data required to make the decision, and he is responsible for whatever he decides. That's what leadership means. If he does no more than he has already done, and it doesn't cause a really large uptick in death rates, I'll be the first to praise his response. |
2nd March 2020, 01:05 PM | #425 |
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2nd March 2020, 01:21 PM | #426 |
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Alan Derschowitz would think so: Trump lawyer Dershowitz argues president can't be impeached for an act he thinks will help his reelection (USAToday, Jan. 30, 2020) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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2nd March 2020, 01:21 PM | #427 |
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The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
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2nd March 2020, 01:47 PM | #428 |
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2nd March 2020, 01:49 PM | #429 |
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And if the results are bad, I'll blame Trump....unless I'm dead.
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2nd March 2020, 02:24 PM | #430 |
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2nd March 2020, 02:29 PM | #431 |
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So, if he's doing it by divine means, I can only tell him this: 'Mr. Geller, you're doing it the hard way.' --James Randi |
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2nd March 2020, 02:31 PM | #432 |
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Answering a question with a question is bad form.
If you would have asked me, my answer would have been, "I'll take all of the evidence available once we've contained the outbreak. I will then listen to experts in this specific field give their breakdown and make a decision at that point." |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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2nd March 2020, 03:02 PM | #433 |
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I can observe the actions of his administration and make an assessment based on that.
For instance, when they go in front of the nation and minimize the potential dangers with falsehoods and misinformation, it communicates incompetence. Do you find it troubling that Trump and his administration have been doing that? |
2nd March 2020, 03:34 PM | #434 |
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2nd March 2020, 07:47 PM | #435 |
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No, and the problem is all yours, because I didn't suggest anyone was lying. mainly because they don't need to. If you want to set fire to strawmen, try somewhere else is my advice.
The numbers right now aren't that high, so it's easy to pretend the problem isn't that bad. That won't be so easy to do when hospitals are overflowing and hundreds of people are dying daily in USA alone. I don't believe you - I think you're desperate to use any attack you can on Trump, and as of right now, he isn't doing anything to be attacked for. I would have thought that something that is about to become a national emergency deserved a non-partisan approach, but it's nice to see the other side is every bit as partisan as Trump's people. |
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2nd March 2020, 08:09 PM | #436 |
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Likewise with a negative result. Is it because of, or despite Trump's actions?
Well, I suppose I would make some sort of effort to figure out which is which, but in the end, I probably won't have enough information. That's the point. I don't. He does. He owns the results. I'll judge based on them. And not blindly. I'll try and figure things out, but sometimes you just have to judge the bottom line. It might not be fair, but so it goes. And for what it's worth, I sure hope that a couple of months from now I'm praising Trump's actions, whether or not he deserves praise, because the alternative is a lot of dead people. |
2nd March 2020, 08:11 PM | #437 |
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Except Trump is lying, blatantly, about the virus. He lied about the number of cases in the US. Lied that it was expected to go down. Lied and said it would go away with the warmer weather. Lied and said it was a Dem hoax. Half of those were while he was in the same room as experts giving the real information. So if you didn't mean to suggest that other leaders were lying, then you were indeed ignorant of Trump's completely obvious and well documented in this thread lies. Although other leaders, notably in Iran and China, have too lied about the virus. Great company. Just because something is highly damaging for Trump doesn't mean it's not the truth, or is partizan. He often really is that bad, whether or not you want to believe it. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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2nd March 2020, 09:05 PM | #438 |
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Evidence for those, please, because I can't find any. He could easily have been confused on numbers - remember this is a bloke who thinks Belarus and Bangladesh are the same.
In terms of numbers going down, they will eventually. Again, it's hardly a lie so much a manifestation of his stupidity. Bingo! Magnificent example of what I was saying about attacking at all costs. You call it a lie when it might well be true. At worst, it's a mistake. Conventional wisdom and many scientists say it probably will fade in summer. Are you going to roll over and admit to it if he turned out to be right? I bet you wouldn't. And another. That is not what he said at all - at no stage has he denied the disease exists or that it's a hoax. He even clarified what he meant by the hoax comment. What a load of cobblers - but you have pwnd yourself perfectly. And you guys wonder why people like cullennz laughs at you. You missed the point there, too - you guys are so consumed with hatred for Trump that you make stuff up to attack him. I started a thread on his worst actions; there isn't any need to make **** up when you're as big a scumbag as Trump. I think the desperate need to use your own lies to attack him says more about you than him. |
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2nd March 2020, 09:30 PM | #439 |
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But it's not a straw man. You literally said, "he's only doing what every other leader in the world is doing right now". Is that not what you meant? Because that's what you said. And it implies what I claimed it implies.
Quote:
Honestly, I meant it as an attack on you (not Trump) and your defense of Trump's lies about the coronavirus. Was I too subtle for you to catch that? But you don't think Trump lying about the situation is worthy of being attacked for? It's not partisanship to raise an alarm about incompetence and lies--It's just good sense. I only wish some people (for example: you) would pay more attention. |
2nd March 2020, 09:44 PM | #440 |
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The defense that Trump just doesn't know better is much worse than him lying: he has literally access to the very best information available on the planet.
The fact that he chooses not to hear it or instantly forgets it is far more troublesome than him making a calculated decision to lie and omit for political gain. Again: Trump ought to know this! |
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