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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 31st August 2018, 06:39 AM   #1961
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
DeAtley came out with about $300,000 before signing off his rights to Roger in 1969. Up to now doesn't really matter as it doesn't get to the heart of who, how and when the suit was made.
Speaking on the suit -- I remember some years ago you were going to check out some type of rumor about a suit being in DeAtleys home. What ever came from all that if anything?

I would venture to guess that since 1969 the film has grossed more than that. Most likely a lot more. Does anyone know the status of Rogers wife these days?
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Old 31st August 2018, 08:39 AM   #1962
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
DeAtley came out with about $300,000 before signing off his rights to Roger in 1969. Up to now doesn't really matter as it doesn't get to the heart of who, how and when the suit was made.
That equates to about $2.1 million today.
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Old 31st August 2018, 02:59 PM   #1963
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Agreed.

I could tell you in mind-numbing detail about what I pieced together of what he was doing, with much of the original legwork done by Greg Long, and then later by interviewing the people I think he did not properly follow up on in Yakima who were still alive around 2010. But I can spare a lot of textbergs and reading time with what is most critical.

What was Roger Patterson doing with Al DeAtley between May and October 1967? What DeAtley has gone on record about this period of time is utter lies.

1 - When exactly did Patterson and DeAtley visit Ray Wallace in Toledo, WA and why?

2 - Why did DeAtley know Bob Heironimus through Patterson, enough that he could describe him physically decades later?

3 - Heironimus confronted DeAtley at a 1970 Waylon Jennings concert at the Saddle Tree club in Yakima. This is something that actually happened. Why?

There are many other questions and activities by Patterson of what he was doing and with who. The money trail, why he swindled Vilma Radford, but it always comes back to DeAtley and Patterson between May and October 1967.
As of May, as the spring filming ground to a halt, let us assume that RP decided he had to film a Bigfoot.
What he did next was to assemble the needed resources: People, money, skills, suit, location, on and on... you name it. That is what he did. He is the project manager. He started with nothing. By The first of October he thought he was ready. Quite a job.
Begin.
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Old 31st August 2018, 05:18 PM   #1964
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I'm all for naming the movie BLAARGing Saddles starring Woods & Wildmen™.
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Old 31st August 2018, 05:19 PM   #1965
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
...OK, now we understanding each other perfectly. My use of Woods & Wildmen is a pop culture based reference meant to allow anyone with anyone with a western schema that experienced the 80's to quickly have a grasp on the nature of Bigfootery as a social phenomenon. What you guys are using now is more accurate and clinical...

I like "Woods and Wildmen". It has a much, much longer history. BLAARGing is also good and pretty accurate. Might I suggest that it is actually a cultural/historical mash up of both? Welcome back, KK. The PGF thread lives!
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Old 1st September 2018, 08:46 AM   #1966
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Originally Posted by captain koolaid View Post
I like "Woods and Wildmen". It has a much, much longer history. BLAARGing is also good and pretty accurate. Might I suggest that it is actually a cultural/historical mash up of both? Welcome back, KK. The PGF thread lives!
I have never really bought into the game playing idea. Maybe I’m too old.
Let me get this straight...are you saying the usual weekend bigfooter who belongs to the Southern waxahachie state Bigfoot organization and goes to two conventions a year doesn’t believe Bigfoot is real in the usual meaning of “believe?” The guys who chant “lock him up” about Bob H really don’t believe in Bigfoot?

I am much more in the cult and Josh Buhs camp, I think.
Of course there are the profiteers who really are agnostic; they just want to sell stuff.
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Old 1st September 2018, 09:32 AM   #1967
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
I have never really bought into the game playing idea. Maybe I’m too old.
Let me get this straight...are you saying the usual weekend bigfooter who belongs to the Southern waxahachie state Bigfoot organization and goes to two conventions a year doesn’t believe Bigfoot is real in the usual meaning of “believe?” The guys who chant “lock him up” about Bob H really don’t believe in Bigfoot?

I am much more in the cult and Josh Buhs camp, I think.
Of course there are the profiteers who really are agnostic; they just want to sell stuff.
Every con needs a rube. Figure out which ones are the conmen, and which are the rubes. (believers) The "pros" have something to sell, and the rubes are buying. That should help.
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Old 1st September 2018, 11:08 AM   #1968
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How about we call them “The Aristocrats!”

Okay...credit StankApe:
Quote:
I have this vision where Sweaty walks into a talent agency, pulls out a projector and presents his amazing technicolor ape show and after the last slide drops off the wall he turns and goes THE ARISTOCRATS!!!!!!
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Old 1st September 2018, 12:46 PM   #1969
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
How about we call them “The Aristocrats!”

Okay...credit StankApe:
I wasn't aware that The Aristocrats were proponents!
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Old 1st September 2018, 04:31 PM   #1970
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
I have never really bought into the game playing idea. Maybe I’m too old...

You mean BLAARGing? What about Woods and Wildmen? That goes back a long way. As a concept, it dovetails with a sort of game and "belief" thing that's as old as the hills.


Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
...Let me get this straight...are you saying the usual weekend bigfooter who belongs to the Southern waxahachie state Bigfoot organization and goes to two conventions a year doesn’t believe Bigfoot is real in the usual meaning of “believe?” The guys who chant “lock him up” about Bob H really don’t believe in Bigfoot?...

Most of them, yeah. Some are gullible and some are just out of their freaking minds... but, most know the score.


Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
...I am much more in the cult and Josh Buhs camp, I think.
Of course there are the profiteers who really are agnostic; they just want to sell stuff.

There is a cultish thing at play also. These things aren't mutually exclusive. It's a weird mix of ingredients. I'm more inclined to look at it as a Liars Club. Belief by some feeds the game and helps keep the structure together. But, mostly it's about the b*******. Woods and Wildmen works best for my money.
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Old 1st September 2018, 06:26 PM   #1971
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
How about we call them “The Aristocrats!”

Okay...credit StankApe:

Quote:
I have this vision where Sweaty walks into a talent agency, pulls out a projector and presents his amazing technicolor ape show and after the last slide drops off the wall he turns and goes THE ARISTOCRATS!!!!!!
This literally made me laugh out loud.

Unfortunately, it depends on the assumption that Sweaty is able to actually face and speak with people about Bigfoot who are not card carrying Woods & Wildmen players. Good luck with that.
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Old 1st September 2018, 07:08 PM   #1972
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Originally Posted by captain koolaid View Post
There is a cultish thing at play also. These things aren't mutually exclusive. It's a weird mix of ingredients. I'm more inclined to look at it as a Liars Club. Belief by some feeds the game and helps keep the structure together. But, mostly it's about the b*******. Woods and Wildmen works best for my money.
This. This. This.

People, all of us, are tempted to think in black and white terms so as to feel they've encapsulated a concept mentally and move on to the next thing to comprehend.

But that's not really thinking things through. It's shades of grey.

I was a five alarm Bigfoot believer. I really, really believed. If I am truly accurate, really, really wanted to believe. Bigfoot is real? Where do I sign? Krantz's Big Footprints a Scientific Inquiry was my Bible and pity the fool that would go for long drives up island with me on Vancouver Island when I was a young man. I would have that book in the car and would not shut up. The notion that that humble, rustic and wild place we grew up contained a secret so fantastic that it boggled the mind was far too enticing, too mysterious.

Anyone remember the commercials for the Time-Life books series Mysteries of the Unknown? You know, the one you had to read to believe? I'll jog your memory...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


My best friend actually ordered that series when I was a teenager. That hunger for the unknown was like a fire under our butts. What could be more healthy than that in growing young people?

And then we go camping.

Guess what I'm shushing people and hoping is out there in the darkness?

Woods & Wildmen as I call it, BLAARGing, it's all essentially addressing one common human behaviour. Wink, wink make believe. I deeply wanted Bigfoot to be real and on the island I grew up on. Now I'm 41 and Hokkaido is my home and if I'm shushing people when we are camping it's because I'm being mindful of brown bears which are everywhere. Want to know some crazy history? Google the Sankebetsu brown bear incident.

A world in which Bigfoot is really, really real is so romantic and so enticing that plenty of people will don the camouflage and drink the Kool-aid. Do they actually believe, really want to believe, know better but pretend to believe to join the camprfire?

Shades of grey.

Woods & Wildmen is, like captain koolaid said, as old the hills.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

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Old 2nd September 2018, 11:57 AM   #1973
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I've said it for years that I felt Roger and at least some other prominent Footers actually did have a belief in Bigfoot to some extent. It's not hard for me to believe that some people actually do think he's out there, cheekily tossing licorice at unwary campers in the vast woodlands of big cities. After all, some people believe in all manner of weird things, some of 'em even believe that U2 are a good band and that Bono is a great vocalist.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 04:15 PM   #1974
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
Now, here is a kind of a new twist.
It is interesting that Jim McClarin and John Green seem to have first seen the film at different times at DeAtleys.


....Jim and Rene took a bus to the McKinleyville Airport and flew, then bused, to Yakima, that day, arriving in the evening. Someone picked them up at the bus station and took them to DeAtley’s house. Again, this was Saturday night, October 21. At DeAtleys they went to the basement where there were several other people (including two women) none of whom Jim knew. Jim had visited Roger in the the spring, stayed at the Patterson home and thus certainly knew Roger very well. He consistently and with certainty says he did not see Patterson at DeAtleys (he did not see Roger until the UBC showings). Of course, Roger could NOT have been there the evening of the 21st, as he and Gimlin were still on the road, having set off from Orleans late that morning. Jim did not know Green at that time though he had corresponded with him, and he does not recall meeting Green at that time. Jim and Rene later hooked up with Green to get a ride up to BC.

Green’s account indicates that he arrived Sunday, October 22, and waited on the main floor of DeAtleys house until Roger arrived. Only after Roger went down and saw the film was he (Green) allowed to go to the basement. Gimlin of course did not show up. This has been accepted as the time and date when the PGF first went “public.” But I think it really happened the night before. I do not at the moment know where Jim and Rene spent the night (possibly with one of the other guests) but Rene (who may have stayed at DeAtleys) seems to have returned the next morning while Jim, like Gimlin, slept in. This would account for both Green and Dahinden recalling Roger’s presence.

Gentlemen, start your timelines!
Kk
I happened to see your old post on the identity of the Lucky Seven who saw the film before UBC. You suggested that Gimlin and Mrs. Patterson were among them. Mrs. Patterson could not have been there Saturday night as Jim would have recognized her. Green and Dahinden also knew her. Rogers arrival was noted by them, but there was no mention of Pat. Gimlin could not have been there Saturday night and was definitely not there Sunday. The two mystery viewers were a man and woman; I speculate they were friends of the DeAtleys, “Saturday Night movies”. I don’t think processing techs would have been counted as having “seen” it. Given the short window that they had to take the film away to have it copied and then get up to Vancouver I doubt either Gimlin or Pat were deemed worthy of a special showing.

We know that Patterson showed the film to friends in his home sometime later but that involved more than two additional people.

Btw the image of Hodgsons store in Murphy’s book is wrong. It shows the later failed version of his business, the Department Store, on the other side of the road, not the Variety Store of 1967.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 04:01 AM   #1975
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Can you quote the post? Neither Gimlin or P. Patterson were at the DeAtley basement showing.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 12:49 PM   #1976
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Can you quote the post? Neither Gimlin or P. Patterson were at the DeAtley basement showing.
kk. I can’t put my mouse on it right now but will find it.

Does anyone know how to contact Tom Pate? I am interested in the issue of how much taller Patty would be if he straightened up.
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Old 4th September 2018, 04:50 AM   #1977
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There is definitely a cult component to Blaarging.

While they may not believe in Bigfoot, once they get into the Believer group, there is a definite pull to keep the story going.

They want to believe so badly, that they will literally hallucinate Bigfoot evidence.

When you are with 6 Hardcore Bigfooters, who probably think Bigfoot isn't real, but are really trying to prove reality wrong, there will be mind-play(hallucinations? wishful thinking? Confirmation Bias?). A sound of a deer crunching through some brush is clearly bipedal footfalls. An owl blinking in the flashlight glare is clearly a Bigfoot swaying , and it's eyes are at 9feet off the ground.

You want to be part of that, you let your mind go to that place where you can see it too.
Same as a snipe hunt. When you find out it is a trick, you want to outdo the people who tricked you, you actually pretend it is real for the next generation of dupes.

My brother in law knows wrestling is fake, but he treats it like it's real. The kayfabe is part of the reality of wrestling. He will laugh when they make a mistake, he will cheer when they do a move that is amazing. He doesn't care. he will tell you what the wrestlers are saying and doing on the mat.

Example: Most of the time when you see a ref yelling at a wrestler, he is determining if the wrestler was injured on the last move, and if so, buying time for him to recover for the next move.

Dr. Meldrum, John Green are they the refs?
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:17 AM   #1978
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Speaking on the suit -- I remember some years ago you were going to check out some type of rumor about a suit being in DeAtleys home. What ever came from all that if anything?

I would venture to guess that since 1969 the film has grossed more than that. Most likely a lot more. Does anyone know the status of Rogers wife these days?
Guessing that's a negative.
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Old 4th September 2018, 10:04 AM   #1979
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I found this statement about the first viewing, from Murphy’s Bigfoot Film Journal but as usual his sourcing is unknown, and so far I can’t find substantiation elsewhere. He says Green was the first to arrive on Sunday in the early afternoon. Then:

Quote:
Dahinden and McClarin arrived at Al De Atley's home at about 3:00 p.m. the same day (Sunday, October 22, 1967). Upon their arrival, Patterson showed the film to all present and the group discussed how Patterson and Gimlin should go forward with the new evidence. Patterson did not show the group the general movie footage he had taken (i.e., the first 76-feet of the first roll). Nor did he show the other footage on the second roll if he did, in fact, have the developed roll. Nevertheless, the film of the creature apparently impressed the researchers. Nothing appeared to indicate that Patterson and Gimlin were being untruthful.
Again, Jim’s account trumps all this imho. He saw the film on the evening of Saturday the 21st. and Patterson was not there.
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Old 5th September 2018, 02:14 PM   #1980
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Meldrum soils his britches over new Smithsonian Magazine piece
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post12417371

Btw this Skeptoid piece by Brian Dunning is now five years old, seems to be laden with factual errors. One or two I can understand but there are like ten. Of course it wouldn’t sway a bleever anyway.
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4375
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Old 7th September 2018, 07:50 AM   #1981
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
Meldrum soils his britches over new Smithsonian Magazine piece
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post12417371

Comment on the article:
Quote:
There is a lot of evidence for the existence of bigfoot. I have seen structures, trees pushed over in uniform fashion, logs that have been dragged around and arranged in sequence, woodpiles, footprints, and other things. I can walk off of trails out in the dense areas of a forest and see these things. You'd be very surprised at how much there is out there and many people have photos and videos of these things. There are also a lot of audio recordings of these creatures. Don't kid yourself; there is a LOT of evidence out there.

On another point, people say that bigfoot do not exist because science hasn't documented their existence. While this is true, you need to realize that science is one thing while people's experiences is another. There is a massive amount of information, eyewitness accounts, recordings, and other types of experiences that people have been having for hundreds and thousands of years. And for the most part they all describe the same thing with consistency. Just because science hasn't yet recognized or discovered something doesn't mean it isn't true or doesn't exist. I don't care if we are talking about nutrition or bigfoot. Science is one thing, people's experiences is another.
Debunking the PGF will probably reduce Bigfoot to the Nessie class ( i.e. comic-con) of imaginary monsters but certainly will not dissuade the thousands if not millions who have had “encounters” with the beast/good con men.
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Old 11th September 2018, 02:26 AM   #1982
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Speaking on the suit -- I remember some years ago you were going to check out some type of rumor about a suit being in DeAtleys home. What ever came from all that if anything?
My apologies for not answering sooner. Here in Hokkaido we were hit last week with a once in a lifetime 6.6 magnitude earthquake, two days after getting a once in 25 years tear everything to shreds typhoon. One night almost everything torn to shreds by up to 216 km/h winds and rain, two days later the rest shaken so bad half our mountains fell apart. Not kidding. We are just now starting to get meat, fish, and vegetables back in supermarkets after a major blackout that sent us into The Walking Dead without zombies.

It's probably best if I PM you about the suit I found. I can't prove any of it and I'm not sure exactly what is the best way to discuss it on a public forum. For all I know, it could very well no longer exist.
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Old 11th September 2018, 01:11 PM   #1983
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I have it on very reliable authority that a major media reporter recently asked DeAtley if he had the suit and Al denied it. FWIW.
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Old 11th September 2018, 02:16 PM   #1984
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There's an old rule about lying and only the best liars stick to it. DENY! DENY! DENY!
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Old 11th September 2018, 03:46 PM   #1985
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
My apologies for not answering sooner. Here in Hokkaido we were hit last week with a once in a lifetime 6.6 magnitude earthquake, two days after getting a once in 25 years tear everything to shreds typhoon. One night almost everything torn to shreds by up to 216 km/h winds and rain, two days later the rest shaken so bad half our mountains fell apart. Not kidding. We are just now starting to get meat, fish, and vegetables back in supermarkets after a major blackout that sent us into The Walking Dead without zombies.

It's probably best if I PM you about the suit I found. I can't prove any of it and I'm not sure exactly what is the best way to discuss it on a public forum. For all I know, it could very well no longer exist.

Hope mother nature decides to chill a bit over there! Sounds a bit rough...

All good about the lack of findings. No need for pms, I remember the gist of it. Was curious if you had a chance to follow up on any of it.
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:00 AM   #1986
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Thank you. Things are calming down and it's Hokkaido, so Winter is Coming. It was not the typhoon and then massive quake that did the most damage, it was the total blackout that lasted for days that has done the most damage. If this was not super-organized Us Culture Japan, but rather America or even Canada, it would have been utter chaos.

I try to do what I can when I visit Canada once or twice a year for vacation, but I'm usually far too busy catching up with friends and family to go down the rabbit hole again.

What I do not know is if the suit still exists today. What I would like to do is whatever I can to ensure it stays existing and where I found it, not put in an over-sized fireplace or taken somewhere it will never turn up. Patience and not shouting from the mountaintops is I think the best bet and just wait for the owner to pass and for the suit to come out the way the Wallace stompers and suit parts did.
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Old 12th September 2018, 04:20 PM   #1987
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That brings up a question. Why hasn't anyone publicly faked having the real PGF suit (for Bigfoot fame and fortune)? I mean, idiot Rick Dyer tried to pass off an entire beast as real even though he never ever had a chance to win. But, faking a "PGF suit and its discovery", now that seems reasonable and...productive, and potentially a great hoax on top of a great hoax. And it's a lot harder to debunk. I mean a serious attempt, not some Philip Morris old timer talking BS.

Who's going to give serious effort to counter it? A bunch of crazed Bigfooters whose dreams have all been shattered? Maybe. The holder of the real suit, DeAtley? Doubt it. Don't forget it's ALL lies anyway and there's no slandering the dead. And neither Patterson's heirs nor Gimlin nor Jay Gatsby DeAtley have any specific rights to the PGF Bigfoot suit (beyond their possession of it). Just an idea for aspiring entrepreneurs.
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Old 13th September 2018, 02:04 AM   #1988
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Having met and interviewed Phillip Morris and his wife years ago in Victoria, BC Canada for the documentary I was working on and never completed, I am certain he sold Patterson one of his suits. It is not anything that Phillip told me but rather the details his wife Amy told me off camera on our way to the Marriott Hotel media room where we conducted the on camera interview.

I could get into the details but the short version is that she knew specifics that Phillip had no recollection of and told me when I spoke with her away from him.

Now was that suit in any way used in the PGF? Having seen what they were making at the time, I think it's possible that materials from it could have been used, but I'm strongly of the mind that the PGF suit was something commissioned and paid for by DeAtley using connections established by Patterson and Jerry Merritt during their May 1967 trip to Hollywood. I think the actual making of the suit happened in September 1967, but this is based on Amy Morris being certain that the suit they sold was in August.

It's a lot of unanswered questions and threads to pull on that I have no time for these days. But I'm putting out there what I have experienced with the rabbit hole and others can tug at their leisure.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:33 AM   #1989
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If one accepts the premise that Roger was making a movie about hunting Bigfoot....why wouldn't he have a suit? It's always been one of the first things Roger would have/should have done upon presenting his film....hey look we filmed a real Bigfoot and here's the silly suit we were using for the movie.
That didn't happen and this glaringly gets ignored and would seem to be one of the first questions asked of Roger.
Where's the suit you were using for your movie Mr. Patterson?
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Old 15th September 2018, 02:11 PM   #1990
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
If one accepts the premise that Roger was making a movie about hunting Bigfoot....why wouldn't he have a suit? It's always been one of the first things Roger would have/should have done upon presenting his film....hey look we filmed a real Bigfoot and here's the silly suit we were using for the movie.
That didn't happen and this glaringly gets ignored and would seem to be one of the first questions asked of Roger.
Where's the suit you were using for your movie Mr. Patterson?
The old Patterson place is vacant, gate chained. No trespassing. Could the suit be stashed there, in a shed or attic...?
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Old 16th September 2018, 08:21 AM   #1991
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
The old Patterson place is vacant, gate chained. No trespassing. Could the suit be stashed there, in a shed or attic...?
Could be, I subscribe to Kits suggestion that Al may have taken possession of the suit. Al had financed the project, but also had the most to lose if it were exposed as a fraud.
It would make a great documentary "The Greatest Hoax Ever", being able to document a myth from its birth to the almost religious nature to this day, it's the most fascinating part of the whole Bigfoot phenomenon.
Think of the interviews that could be done, from the internet cultist at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends) to the astounding ignorance and/or deception of the Meldrums of the world.
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Old 16th September 2018, 04:45 PM   #1992
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Could be, I subscribe to Kits suggestion that Al may have taken possession of the suit. Al had financed the project, but also had the most to lose if it were exposed as a fraud.
It would make a great documentary "The Greatest Hoax Ever", being able to document a myth from its birth to the almost religious nature to this day, it's the most fascinating part of the whole Bigfoot phenomenon.
Think of the interviews that could be done, from the internet cultist at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends) to the astounding ignorance and/or deception of the Meldrums of the world.
We know that Al grabbed the real “second roll” after it was shown once. We can assume it was shot weeks after the famous footage and some details didn’t match up. So it would have been consistent for him to also squirrel away the suit so Roger couldn’t mess up trying another movie. But given the family and legal squabbles I would guess he has disposed of it rather than risk it falling into the wrong hands. While I enjoy the idea that it might still be discovered, I think it is gone. It is hard for me to believe that he would have it on display all this time and no one else has spilled the beans.

Al has said he never asked Roger if the film was real. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know. But he is too prominent a guy to be proven a part of a giant hoax that would piss off a lot of people.
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Old 16th September 2018, 05:08 PM   #1993
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I think that if “the film itself” had proved Bigfoot was real we would have seen an enormous extravaganza by now from Meldrum, Munns and Gimlin. But instead all we got was blimps, tracking dogs, angry letters and a sort of “Greatest Hits album“ years ago from the former two and now Gimlin has some cheesy bio.

So by my way of thinking, either the film proves nothing or it proves itself a fake. I would put my money on the latter..it is better than even money that the film is actually going to show itself to be fake. River has one key piece and by the behavior of the three I am pretty sure there are others.
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Old 16th September 2018, 11:04 PM   #1994
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
I think that if “the film itself” had proved Bigfoot was real we would have seen an enormous extravaganza by now from Meldrum, Munns and Gimlin. But instead all we got was blimps, tracking dogs, angry letters and a sort of “Greatest Hits album“ years ago from the former two and now Gimlin has some cheesy bio.

So by my way of thinking, either the film proves nothing or it proves itself a fake. I would put my money on the latter..it is better than even money that the film is actually going to show itself to be fake. River has one key piece and by the behavior of the three I am pretty sure there are others.
I wasn't the first one to notice there was possibly missing footprints in the casting footage. But I was the first one to put all of those elements together and identifying the scenes/casts as the ones used along with getting confirmation from Gimlin about when/where and who shot that particular piece of film. (allegedly) A few people in this forum have mentioned it way back in some of the pgf or bigfoot threads (the missing footprints in casting footage) I think one of the first may have been either Tube or Parcher. After speaking with Meldrum via email about the issue he suggested that I use a ruler or straight edge style line coming from the frame that shows the cast in the ground hardened, and scrolling past, and compare that to the footprint shown being cast with the same rule/straight edge to show direction of where the footprint actually is in the other footage. (proving that it's not hidden behind Pattersons leg, or any debris) There is one frame of the scrolling footage that shows the next print and the casted one in the same frame. This was one of the key elements to solving the mystery. It's no wonder they've made the "second reel" all but disappear... we know why now.

The "stomp test" that never made it anywhere I've seen that was described by Gimlin in some interview likely showed the same thing about the footprints. (that they had not continued the strides yet, just the ones they cast) But this is only a guess since I've not seen that footage. It was likely more obvious in that footage, which is why it never saw light of day. Maybe a good guess? Who knows.

The previous is not a guess though, and I hope with some better written accompaniment can "de bunk" the footprints that are so cherished and in doing so it does actually prove the PGF itself to be a hoax. Everyone wants the suit, or more flaws pointed out. I'm not sure that will ever come. But we do have this....

frameshowingbothprintsandtheirrelationship.jpg
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Old 17th September 2018, 04:14 AM   #1995
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
Comment on the article:

Debunking the PGF will probably reduce Bigfoot to the Nessie class ( i.e. comic-con) of imaginary monsters but certainly will not dissuade the thousands if not millions who have had “encounters” with the beast/good con men.
I want to know what has him so sceptical of...nutrition. Whether it be nutrition, or Bigfoot. Bit of a leap, there, mate.
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Old 17th September 2018, 04:15 AM   #1996
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
I have it on very reliable authority that a major media reporter recently asked DeAtley if he had the suit and Al denied it. FWIW.
I'm just astounded that a major media reporter had nothing better to do than ask a shmoe like DeAtley whether he had a Patty suit. Slow news day?
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Old 17th September 2018, 04:19 AM   #1997
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
That brings up a question. Why hasn't anyone publicly faked having the real PGF suit (for Bigfoot fame and fortune)? I mean, idiot Rick Dyer tried to pass off an entire beast as real even though he never ever had a chance to win. But, faking a "PGF suit and its discovery", now that seems reasonable and...productive, and potentially a great hoax on top of a great hoax. And it's a lot harder to debunk. I mean a serious attempt, not some Philip Morris old timer talking BS.

Who's going to give serious effort to counter it? A bunch of crazed Bigfooters whose dreams have all been shattered? Maybe. The holder of the real suit, DeAtley? Doubt it. Don't forget it's ALL lies anyway and there's no slandering the dead. And neither Patterson's heirs nor Gimlin nor Jay Gatsby DeAtley have any specific rights to the PGF Bigfoot suit (beyond their possession of it). Just an idea for aspiring entrepreneurs.
The only person who had the sheer willpower, boredom and a few loose marbles enough to try, was Blevins. And he did it pretty well, with limited capabilities, limited funds, and not much practice. The only catch is that he never intended it to fool anyone, or to ape the OG, but just to say look what I did with no money and little time.
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Old 20th September 2018, 06:33 PM   #1998
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Smooth recovery over there in Alaska, that giant expanse of north country about 2/3 of the 9000ish km between here in Hokkaido and my BC where I grew up. I've flown over you more times than I can count and never once touched down. Mean to fix that one day.
I'll wave next time you go over. If my rotator cuffs improve, lol.

Quote:
Main point, as a former believer, one who came to my senses when I saw Woods & Wildmen roleplaying around me, you can't dismiss the entirety of people who believe as BLAARGing dopes. I had wrong information. Came hear 12 years ago. Learned and changed. That's the short version.
We have another poster who used the term Legend Tripping, and used this same straw man to the point of extreme disruption.

Not one person here uses the term "BLAARGing dopes", nor refers to them as dopes, nor insists all professed believers are lying.

That is why it was such a low point on the forum that the argument for "Legend Tripping" was this incessant straw man: Footers aren't BLAARGing because skeptics believe all bigfooters are lying serial killer cannibal rapists. It was straw man and victim-playing and projection too.

Because the assertion of stupidity is on the believer in the long run, not the BLAARGer. The BLAARGer can learn. The obstinancy has nothing to do with lack of intellectual faculty. He is role-playing and the actor playing a role is more intelligent than the dope who cannot understand reality and adjust his beliefs according to the evidence.

I don't get the sensitivity about changing beliefs. I believed in the Loch Ness Monster. So what? I never bring it in to a discussion for victim-playing, straw-manning, etc.

If we really are staying on topic here then I cannot let you escape whether Roger Patterson believed he was filming a bigfoot when he was filming Bob Heironimus. Walking in the suit Roger modified himself.

Or whether Roger Patterson believed, when he was doing the PGF road trip, that the film he was showing was of a real bigfoot and not Bob Heironimus. Because he told everyone that story about coming around the bend on horseback, being thrown, running towards the bigfoot, etc.

Or whether Roger Patterson believed, when he was banging Thai hotties with his road trip money, that he was looking for a Thai Yeti.

Or whether the bigfoot personalities are the first peddlers of woo who actually believed they could bend spoons, cure the crippled, talk to dead people, channel power through crystals, magnets, that all these con men, and why not the Nigerian internet scammers too... they really do believe they have twenty million dollars to share with you.

Of all these hucksters, only the Bigfoot believers are true? This is an argument for an exception that really stands out against woo peddlers.

There is a science that studies the personalities self-selecting into woo. They tell us there is no person that knows better than Roger Patterson that he is full of ****. The rush he got from the money he pulled in is called "dupers delight".

This is not opinion, and declaring opinion is not an argument. Those are the terms used in the literature on personality disorders or character disorders.

Even a high school class of people gathered to hear Patterson's talk on "Do Abominable Snowmen Really Exist" is Dupers Delight aplenty. We know from The Making of Bigfoot he was faking tracks as he put posters up advertising his talks. Is this evidence he believed? It is evidence of hoaxing for self-promotion. Long before the PGF. Years before.

Patterson was clearly a bad character, a serial con man with no scruples whatsoever. The "lying for Jesus" position attempts to re-write his long history of antisocial behavior and demonstrates zero empathy for his victims. Everyone from phone companies to grocery stores to camera stores, an insurance company, little old men and ladies, Club registrants, creditors, on and on.

In court this absolutely is evidence you want in front of a jury. When adjudicating a decision about whether he believed in bigfoot when he was defrauding all those PGF clip three-dollar entry fee viewers. His investors, a lot of them, listed in Greg Long's book. He sold rights multiple times, just like The Producers (came out ironically in 1967).

You want that in front of the Jury so reasonable people can hear all the creditors, the 400% ownership investors in film rights or whatever it was, all the family store owners or service providers, the long list of victims step up on the stand to talk about how Roger Patterson lied to their face, all of them. That Roger Patterson's singular defining character trait was that of a con man.

And hear his brother-in-law just repeat exactly what he said Roger Patterson's Bigfoot expeditions amounted too: Beer and women. A jury needs to hear that when deciding whether Patterson actually believed.

I don't see evidence of real belief, which is pretty simple for an alleged cowboy. You just go shoot one. With either a rifle or a camera. That's a pretty easy assignment for real animals.
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Old 20th September 2018, 09:25 PM   #1999
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Old 22nd September 2018, 10:02 AM   #2000
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Do costumes make ones legs look short?
See video here.
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