ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

Reply
Old 22nd May 2018, 06:04 PM   #361
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
Originally Posted by Anode View Post
Wait, I know! Rocco's service was held at the courthouse!! Lol!!
And in November, 2007... nine years before he died! Diabolical!
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2018, 06:09 PM   #362
Numbers
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,439
Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Interesting, I wonder what the source for the picture compilation is, because it should be obvious that the picture in the middle is showing Francesco Sollecito leaving the court in Perugia...
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
ROTFLMAO!!. That picture of Francesco was ABSOLUTELY NOT taken at the non-existent memorial of Rocco's in 2016. It was taken in Nov. 2007.
It's in this article:

http://www.repubblica.it/2007/11/sez...-genitori.html

Looks like some people are caught with their pants on fire!

But I bet this won't stop certain people from claiming it was!
Originally Posted by Anode View Post
Wait, I know! Rocco's service was held at the courthouse!! Lol!!
The guilters will explain that the courthouse and the church were "exactly similar".
Numbers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2018, 06:15 PM   #363
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,198
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
An honest person would also admit that picture was not even taken in 2016 but years earlier, much less at Rocco's memorial service in 2016.

Ladies and Gents! Lay your bets here as to what will happen! Lay yer bets here!


This is all so easy. I'd be shocked to see her write a post that she was wrong about this or anything for that matter. I said earlier that even if there was video from that night that surfaced showing Rudy breaking in alone and leaving alone without a single frame showing Amanda or Raffaele, Vixen et al, would still argue they were there.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 22nd May 2018 at 06:50 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2018, 11:47 PM   #364
Planigale
Master Poster
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,887
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I said, "OK, fair enough". Stop nagging.

See pic of Francesco at Rocco's memorial mass in Bari at a completely different time and place randomly inserted to enable sad people to infer a non-existent relationship.
FTFY
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 01:20 AM   #365
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,554
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
FTFY

Even by regular pro-guilt standards of deception and dissembling, this possibly sets the bar even lower. Someone among their number knowingly photoshopping a photo of Francesco Sollecito, taken in an entirely different place and several years earlier, into an media article about Rocco Sollecito's (alleged) memorial service, with the intention to deceive people into thinking that the article contained a photo showing Francesco Sollecito coming out of the (alleged) memorial.

And then useful idiots within the pro-guilt community could be relied upon to trot out this "evidence" without ever thinking to check its provenance or reliability.

Oh well. Bring on the next one, eh? Watcha got for us next......?
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 01:37 AM   #366
bagels
Master Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,031
The painstaking art of refusing to believe a girl was killed by the criminal standing over her body covered in her blood.
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 03:23 AM   #367
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ummm...Rocco Sollecito was born June 9, 1948 and (according to the court records) Francesco Sollecito was " nato a Giovinazzo il 4 giugno 1948." Wow...that was one short pregnancy between the two 'brothers'. Try doing just a modicum of research before posting.

Citation, please, for your claim that Raffaele 'hung out with the Italian mafioso there'. Not that I'm expecting one, of course.
It's all covered in mafia sympathiser rag OGGI.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 03:26 AM   #368
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Knowing what I know very well about how pro-guilt agitators operate, I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if one of them had mendaciously added the photo of Francesco Sollecito onto that article, in order to try to give (fake) legitimacy to the idea of Francesco Sollecito somehow seeking to eulogise Rocco Sollecito.

As far as I can see, the entire pro-guilt "campaign" is propped up on deliberate manipulation, attempts to deceive and misdirect, some form of psychologically-disturbed need for "vengeance" (on "behalf" of someone they never even knew, but have (necessarily, for them) transformed into some paragon of virtue and talent), and this undertone of "we're taking on the corrupt system". It's obvious to even a one-eyed simpleton that they're wrong and deluded. But I guess that's the whole point, isn't it?
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
.

~ Stephen Stills
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 03:54 AM   #369
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
ROTFLMAO!!. That picture of Francesco was ABSOLUTELY NOT taken at the non-existent memorial of Rocco's in 2016. It was taken in Nov. 2007.
It's in this article:

http://www.repubblica.it/2007/11/sez...-genitori.html

Looks like some people are caught with their pants on fire!

But I bet this won't stop certain people from claiming it was!
OK, fair enough. The guy who wrote the article seemed to think it was relevant, but I guess he just googled 'Sollecito, Grumo Apppula' and came up with that.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 03:56 AM   #370
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ummm...Rocco Sollecito was born June 9, 1948 and (according to the court records) Francesco Sollecito was " nato a Giovinazzo il 4 giugno 1948." Wow...that was one short pregnancy between the two 'brothers'. Try doing just a modicum of research before posting.

Citation, please, for your claim that Raffaele 'hung out with the Italian mafioso there'. Not that I'm expecting one, of course.
Could be a twin born five days apart...? No? Could still be a second cousin (shared grandparents). I am close to all of my second cousins.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 04:35 AM   #371
toto
Muse
 
toto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
I'm picky.
My OED has "peculiar" as the main spelling with other (historical) spellings ending: ier, er, yer, yar and iare. The word dates from the adoption of the obsolete French word peculier (16th C) but also from the Latin peculiaris.

However under the specific ecclesiastical definition (a parish or church exempt from the jurisdiction of the ordinary or bishop in whose diocese it lies) it is spelled "peculiar" with the OED providing examples from 1562.

Anyway as you say this is nit picking! While the Queen has to give permission for any marriages to take place there, I think it is a stretch to say there is necessarily much of a connection to the Queen merely by attending a service there, (which I think was the original point).
__________________
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett
toto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 04:57 AM   #372
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by toto View Post
My OED has "peculiar" as the main spelling with other (historical) spellings ending: ier, er, yer, yar and iare. The word dates from the adoption of the obsolete French word peculier (16th C) but also from the Latin peculiaris.

However under the specific ecclesiastical definition (a parish or church exempt from the jurisdiction of the ordinary or bishop in whose diocese it lies) it is spelled "peculiar" with the OED providing examples from 1562.

Anyway as you say this is nit picking! While the Queen has to give permission for any marriages to take place there, I think it is a stretch to say there is necessarily much of a connection to the Queen merely by attending a service there, (which I think was the original point).
There's a dark beer, Old Peculier. That's the limit of what I know.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 05:02 AM   #373
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
OK, fair enough. The guy who wrote the article seemed to think it was relevant, but I guess he just googled 'Sollecito, Grumo Apppula' and came up with that.
No. Whoever did that forged "evidence" and you passed it on claiming it proved something.

Your latest euphemism is "fair enough". It's your way of acknowledging getting caught in a lie.

At least we didn't spend all of Continuation 28 dragging this admission from you.

What never happens? Having you actually apologize for lying.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 05:17 AM   #374
toto
Muse
 
toto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
There's a dark beer, Old Peculier. That's the limit of what I know.
OK! A quick google says that Theakston Brewery (founded 1827) brews Old Peculier.
__________________
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett
toto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 05:32 AM   #375
Numbers
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,439
Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Even by regular pro-guilt standards of deception and dissembling, this possibly sets the bar even lower. Someone among their number knowingly photoshopping a photo of Francesco Sollecito, taken in an entirely different place and several years earlier, into an media article about Rocco Sollecito's (alleged) memorial service, with the intention to deceive people into thinking that the article contained a photo showing Francesco Sollecito coming out of the (alleged) memorial.

And then useful idiots within the pro-guilt community could be relied upon to trot out this "evidence" without ever thinking to check its provenance or reliability.

Oh well. Bring on the next one, eh? Watcha got for us next......?
The case against Knox and Sollecito really began as a hoax by the police and prosecutor and brought before the Italian courts. So it's not surprising that guilters engage in hoaxes in an attempt to continue it before the public.
Numbers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 06:02 AM   #376
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,554
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
.

~ Stephen Stills


Uhhh yeah..... you know by now that this is actually what did happen, don't you? Or are you still in deep denial?
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 06:02 AM   #377
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,198
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
No. Whoever did that forged "evidence" and you passed it on claiming it proved something.

Your latest euphemism is "fair enough". It's your way of acknowledging getting caught in a lie.

At least we didn't spend all of Continuation 28 dragging this admission from you.

What never happens? Having you actually apologize for lying.
'fair enough' is hardly an admission of error.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 06:07 AM   #378
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,554
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
OK, fair enough. The guy who wrote the article seemed to think it was relevant, but I guess he just googled 'Sollecito, Grumo Apppula' and came up with that.

Do you have reading comprehension issues? The photo of Francesco Sollecito was not even taken in Grumo Appula. It was taken outside the courthouse in Perugia.

Do you seriously not understand that this photo of Francesco Sollecito clearly never even belonged to the original media article? That it was mendaciously edited into the article by a deceptive pro-guilt commentator in order to try to invent a story? And that the likes of you were more than happy to credulously gobble it up?


PLEASE send us a half-decent pro-guilt commentator (I'm not actually sure than any such individuals exist.... but anything would probably be an improvement on the current inane "argumentation" being offered)
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 07:23 AM   #379
TruthCalls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,085
Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Do you have reading comprehension issues? The photo of Francesco Sollecito was not even taken in Grumo Appula. It was taken outside the courthouse in Perugia.

Do you seriously not understand that this photo of Francesco Sollecito clearly never even belonged to the original media article? That it was mendaciously edited into the article by a deceptive pro-guilt commentator in order to try to invent a story? And that the likes of you were more than happy to credulously gobble it up?


PLEASE send us a half-decent pro-guilt commentator (I'm not actually sure than any such individuals exist.... but anything would probably be an improvement on the current inane "argumentation" being offered)
As we see time and again, when something is non-favorable to Amanda and Raffaele the PGP accept it without question and then repeat it through as many social and media channels as they can to give it life, but when favorable they are insistent for multiple levels of verification and even then will often claim it's false anyway. This goes well beyond basic confirmation bias.

The C&P of the article as posted in dot net failed to reproduce the most telling paragraph from the original article, and, as has been pointed out, they created a collage of photos that included a picture taken several years prior and in a different location. The dishonesty of the PGP knows no bounds.

Here was the most telling paragraph from the original article;

So the mayor of Grumo, Michele D'Atri, comments on the controversy over the mass (canceled) in suffrage of the boss Rocco Sollecito.

The gates of the church of Grumo Appula have been closed where this morning at six o'clock - as ordered by the Bari police chief, Carmine Esposito, for reasons of public order and security, - should have held the religious rite in suffrage of the boss Rocco Sollecito.

After the controversy raised by the manifesto with which the parish priest of the Mother Church of Grumo Appula invited the faithful to participate in the mass in suffrage of the boss killed in Canada in May, the mass, initially scheduled this afternoon, had been moved by the police chief this morning at six o'clock, in a strictly private form. But last night, late in the evening, the archbishop of Bari, Monsignor Francesco Cacucci, forbade it to be held.

The church of Grumo, therefore, at six o'clock was closed and the celebration was not held in memory of the boss; it was opened shortly after 7am this morning for normal mass.


There is no ambiguity regarding this memorial mass - it was never held. Why must the PGP not only lie about it taking place but then photoshop a misleading set of pictures to imply it was and with Francesco attending. I guess one could say desperate times call for desperate measures, but it's disgustingly dishonest nonetheless.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 07:44 AM   #380
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,198
Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Do you have reading comprehension issues? The photo of Francesco Sollecito was not even taken in Grumo Appula. It was taken outside the courthouse in Perugia.

Do you seriously not understand that this photo of Francesco Sollecito clearly never even belonged to the original media article? That it was mendaciously edited into the article by a deceptive pro-guilt commentator in order to try to invent a story? And that the likes of you were more than happy to credulously gobble it up?


PLEASE send us a half-decent pro-guilt commentator (I'm not actually sure than any such individuals exist.... but anything would probably be an improvement on the current inane "argumentation" being offered)
I don't think they do exist. Maybe at one time, but not any more. This is one half lie after another as well as outright fabrications. Not to mention a total lack of critical thinking skills. What kind of person when presented with incontrovertible video evidence cannot say they were wrong?

I see the posts constantly from the PGP that say that Marasca said they were there at the murder scene while totally ignoring that Marasca prefaced that with the words 'even if'. Two words that at a minimum suggest at the least that possibly if not probably what followed was a hypothetical. That is a lie of of omission. Now while it is possible that such an ommission is not a lie and simply an innocent error. For our resident guilter, the omission cannot be claimed as neither innocent or honest. It is a deliberate act of obfuscation of the facts. That makes it a lie.

And so is the constant ignoring of Hellman as if that trial didn't happen is also a deliberate ommission.

Any honest person with even a small amount of critical thinking skills is going to be presented with data that is extremely difficult to square with every scenario that Amanda and Raffaele were involved. Vixen refuses to apply any critical thinking skill to that data. She simply glosses over them.

This annoys me to no end. I can bear people making mistakes, but I have no patience for this kind of willful dishonesty.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 23rd May 2018 at 08:24 AM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 08:28 AM   #381
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I see the posts constantly from the PGP that say that Marasca said they were there at the murder scene while totally ignoring that Marasca prefaced that with the words 'even if'. Two words that at a minimum suggest at the least that possibly if not probably what followed was a hypothetical. That is a lie of of omission. Now while it is possible that such an ommission is not a lie and simply an innocent error. For our resident guilter, the omission cannot be claimed as neither innocent or honest. It is a deliberate act of obfuscation of the facts. That makes it a lie.
It's not just the "even if", as in "Nevertheless, even if attribution (of contact with blood) is certain, the trial element would not be unequivocal as a demonstration of posthumous contact with that blood."

It's not just that, the ISC more than telegraphs in Section 9.2 of its report what it is setting out to demonstrate. Then the demonstrate it, and come to the conclusion that the pair must be innocent, even if taking seriously the best the prosecution had to offer. Prior to the "even if" statement, the Italian Supreme Court specifically set out the parameters of what they were about to write.

They specifically said that what is to come is a compendium of both sides of the case, the prosecution side as well as the defence side, to see if any of it makes sense....
Originally Posted by Marasca-Bruno
9.2 The aspects of the objectively contradictory nature [of evidence] can be, as
shown below, illustrated for each defendant, in a synoptic presentation of the
elements favourable to the hypothesis of guilt and of the elements against it, as
they are shown, of course, by the text of the challenged ruling and of the previous
ones.
As for the "elements favorable to the hypothesis of guilt," M-B go on to examine those elements, and at the end find that even if they are true, they still do not cross the boundary necessary to find the pair guilty.

The guilt-PR machine completely ignores this. Instead, they'd have us believe that M-B really did think the pair guilty, but acquitted and exonerated them anyway. The guilter-PR machine has since promised that there will be some last-minute reversal, where Marasca-Bruno will be taken away in prison vans.....

.... be that as it may, it is more than 3 years since the acquittals - which is the term that the Italian media to this day uses to describe the 2015 decision - and there's a small group of English language nutters who claim that say it never happened that way.

These are the same people who, themselves, forge pictures of Francesco Sollecito presumably leaving a funeral mass for Rocco Sollecito, a funeral mass which.....

N
E
V
E
R

H
A
P
P
E
N
E
D

Yet that does not stop them from forging evidence. If ever anything was deserving of a designation, "guilter PR-machine", what more is there?
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.

Last edited by Bill Williams; 23rd May 2018 at 08:31 AM.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 08:55 AM   #382
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ummm...Rocco Sollecito was born June 9, 1948 and (according to the court records) Francesco Sollecito was " nato a Giovinazzo il 4 giugno 1948." Wow...that was one short pregnancy between the two 'brothers'. Try doing just a modicum of research before posting.

Citation, please, for your claim that Raffaele 'hung out with the Italian mafioso there'. Not that I'm expecting one, of course.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's all covered in mafia sympathiser rag OGGI.
No, it is not. The following is the only OGGI article I could find regarding RS's trip to the Dominica Republic. It does not mention him hanging out with Italian mafioso. It only mentions this:

Quote:
(RS)...maintains friendly relations with many fellow countrymen living on the island, including a pavese who moved to Santo Domingo for work and a Roman businessman with several businesses in the tourism sector.
https://translate.google.com/transla...e/&prev=search

I looked at several articles referring to RS's D.R. trip and they all refer back to this single OGGI article. Once again, you are making a claim with no evidence to support it. Figures.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 09:15 AM   #383
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,198
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It's not just the "even if", as in "Nevertheless, even if attribution (of contact with blood) is certain, the trial element would not be unequivocal as a demonstration of posthumous contact with that blood."

It's not just that, the ISC more than telegraphs in Section 9.2 of its report what it is setting out to demonstrate. Then the demonstrate it, and come to the conclusion that the pair must be innocent, even if taking seriously the best the prosecution had to offer. Prior to the "even if" statement, the Italian Supreme Court specifically set out the parameters of what they were about to write.

They specifically said that what is to come is a compendium of both sides of the case, the prosecution side as well as the defence side, to see if any of it makes sense....
As for the "elements favorable to the hypothesis of guilt," M-B go on to examine those elements, and at the end find that even if they are true, they still do not cross the boundary necessary to find the pair guilty.

The guilt-PR machine completely ignores this. Instead, they'd have us believe that M-B really did think the pair guilty, but acquitted and exonerated them anyway. The guilter-PR machine has since promised that there will be some last-minute reversal, where Marasca-Bruno will be taken away in prison vans.....

.... be that as it may, it is more than 3 years since the acquittals - which is the term that the Italian media to this day uses to describe the 2015 decision - and there's a small group of English language nutters who claim that say it never happened that way.

These are the same people who, themselves, forge pictures of Francesco Sollecito presumably leaving a funeral mass for Rocco Sollecito, a funeral mass which.....

N
E
V
E
R

H
A
P
P
E
N
E
D

Yet that does not stop them from forging evidence. If ever anything was deserving of a designation, "guilter PR-machine", what more is there?
It's one thing after another. It's the total acceptance of every prosecution witness and expert and total summary dismissal of anything that is exculpatory including defense witnesses and experts. It's saying that any kind of exoneration is simply a #$@# spelling error for crise sakes.

That Vixen has the gall to repeat over and over the lie that there was woman's shoeprint in Merediths blood is particularly galling to me. Anyone who has seen the very thorough rebuttal knows that without a doubt that the print is simply another of Rudy's Nike shoeprint. But Vixen says that because that expert used an image editing tool (Photoshop) to rotate and overlay the print to show how it was the Nike print, that what they were really doing was dishonestly distorting it. Something that would have been obvious and easy to pinpoint if he had.

I see Vixen saying things about telecom which are demonstrably false and ignorant, the one area where I have significant expertise. And no matter how many times I correct her, she will repeat those untruths.
It's grown more than a little tiresome.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 23rd May 2018 at 09:57 AM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 09:16 AM   #384
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
It is possible that the 2007 photo of Francesco was not photoshopped in by someone in the guilt camp. The fact that the link to the original article does show that two photos in that position have been removed is curious and perhaps telling. It is possible that the photos were removed voluntarily by the author or the publisher due to being a mistake. The fact that no mention is made in the article of Francesco is supportive that it was either not there originally or that it was a mistake of some sort. As I told Vixen earlier, a picture is not included in an article and then not identified or referred to in any way. It would have no purpose.

What is unforgiveable is that this lie about F.S. attending a non-existent memorial to Rocco S and that there is a photo as evidence will continue to be spread by the remaining TJMK fanatics. It will continue to be spread along with the 'FR and RS are closely connected to the mafia, Napapijri jacket, red stripe cap, charter plane, mixed blood, footprints in blood, et al. lies.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 09:34 AM   #385
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Could be a twin born five days apart...? No? Could still be a second cousin (shared grandparents). I am close to all of my second cousins.
In short: No.

You still resort to all kinds of excuses as to why this imagined relationship has never once been mentioned in any article or why PGP like yourself have never provided evidence of it.
Is it logical in your world that all those articles on Rocco's death would not include identifying Rocco as Raffaele's uncle the year after Raffaele was definitively acquitted of one of the most publicized crimes in Italy? REALLY?

Learn to stop digging the hole and to admit when you're wrong.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 10:04 AM   #386
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
.

~ Stephen Stills
How ironic coming from someone who maintains that every expert, witness, and judge who does not support guilt is corrupt and/or a shill.

Besides, as the vilest Writer has his Readers, so the greatest Liar has his Believers; and it often happens, that if a Lie be believ’d only for an Hour, it has done its Work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…

~ Jonathan Swift, 1710
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 10:10 AM   #387
TruthCalls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,085
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It is possible that the 2007 photo of Francesco was not photoshopped in by someone in the guilt camp. The fact that the link to the original article does show that two photos in that position have been removed is curious and perhaps telling. It is possible that the photos were removed voluntarily by the author or the publisher due to being a mistake. The fact that no mention is made in the article of Francesco is supportive that it was either not there originally or that it was a mistake of some sort. As I told Vixen earlier, a picture is not included in an article and then not identified or referred to in any way. It would have no purpose.

What is unforgiveable is that this lie about F.S. attending a non-existent memorial to Rocco S and that there is a photo as evidence will continue to be spread by the remaining TJMK fanatics. It will continue to be spread along with the 'FR and RS are closely connected to the mafia, Napapijri jacket, red stripe cap, charter plane, mixed blood, footprints in blood, et al. lies.
I'm only seeing one photo missing which I assume corresponds to the photo of Rocco Sollecito in the dot nut posting. It appears to me they took two pictures from the article (Rocco, the church) and then added the 'generic' photo from Francesco as well as the one of him leaving the courthouse in 2007, and then copied the one paragraph from the article which was not nearly as clear/definitive as the one prior to it which made it clear the mass was never held. Why the picture of Rocco would now not be in the article I have no idea, but it's irrelevant.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 10:35 AM   #388
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I'm only seeing one photo missing which I assume corresponds to the photo of Rocco Sollecito in the dot nut posting. It appears to me they took two pictures from the article (Rocco, the church) and then added the 'generic' photo from Francesco as well as the one of him leaving the courthouse in 2007, and then copied the one paragraph from the article which was not nearly as clear/definitive as the one prior to it which made it clear the mass was never held. Why the picture of Rocco would now not be in the article I have no idea, but it's irrelevant.
In the original article there are two X's with one statement saying "Risultati immagini per Sollecito boss" ("image results for Sollecito boss"). I only just translated this which gives us a good clue that the pic of FS was not originally there. The plural is only for the photos but only one "boss" which indicates the photos were of the same person. This clearly points to some photoshopping going on in the PMF pic which Vixen posted.

I'd love to hear the "reason" for this from those who spread this falsehood about FS and RS being mafia connected.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 23rd May 2018 at 10:55 AM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 11:44 AM   #389
TruthCalls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,085
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
In the original article there are two X's with one statement saying "Risultati immagini per Sollecito boss" ("image results for Sollecito boss"). I only just translated this which gives us a good clue that the pic of FS was not originally there. The plural is only for the photos but only one "boss" which indicates the photos were of the same person. This clearly points to some photoshopping going on in the PMF pic which Vixen posted.

I'd love to hear the "reason" for this from those who spread this falsehood about FS and RS being mafia connected.
OK, I'm only showing a single broken link but agree the translation is "image results..". Regardless, clearly the photo(s) was/were of "Boss" Rocco, not Francesco.

Quennell would never admit the slight of hand, but that's fine. As Bill keeps saying, it just gives Amanda more things to talk about.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 12:12 PM   #390
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,632
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I know exactly where you got that:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/vie...461&start=8000

And they got it from here (scroll almost down to the bottom):
https://www.deliapress.it/products/p...no-addolorato/

The trouble with this is that the alleged pictures (and most certainly not the one photoshopped in of the "stock" pic of Dr. Sollecito) do not appear.
That photo claiming it is of Dr. Sollecito coming out of the church is not mentioned anywhere in the article...nor are Francesco or Raffaele at all. That picture of Dr. Sollecito could have been taken at any time, including of him coming out of his own local church as it is not identified in the article. Once again: why is it that NO article EVER mentioned Dr. Sollecito being at the (non-existent) memorial mass OR mentioned either him or Raffaele in any article related to Rocco Sollecito?

As for the alleged memorial mass, I've already quoted and cited the article that says that NONE was ever held. Try reading it again:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...lled-1.3913273

Just like you're stuck in the 2009 evidence whirlpool, you can't get past the end result that no mass was held even at dawn. PERIOD. END STOP.
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
OK, I'm only showing a single broken link but agree the translation is "image results..". Regardless, clearly the photo(s) was/were of "Boss" Rocco, not Francesco.

Quennell would never admit the slight of hand, but that's fine. As Bill keeps saying, it just gives Amanda more things to talk about.
Did you click on the highlighted link above? This is to the original article.

Of course they'd never admit it. They never admit to being wrong about anything. I think it's a prerequisite for being a TJMKer in good standing.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 12:55 PM   #391
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Did you click on the highlighted link above? This is to the original article.

Of course they'd never admit it. They never admit to being wrong about anything. I think it's a prerequisite for being a TJMKer in good standing.
Stop looking for trouble where none exists.

The author of the article on the mafia innocuously included a picture of a figure exiting a building, alongside a picture of Rocco Sollecito, and someone recognised it as Raff's dad.

Picture now gone.

Move along, nothing to see.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 01:09 PM   #392
bagels
Master Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,031
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stop looking for trouble where none exists.

The author of the article on the mafia innocuously included a picture of a figure exiting a building, alongside a picture of Rocco Sollecito, and someone recognised it as Raff's dad.

Picture now gone.

Move along, nothing to see.
I'd say the guilters desperately grasping at straws with this mafia nonsense is something to see. Something funny
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 01:26 PM   #393
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,554
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stop looking for trouble where none exists.

The author of the article on the mafia innocuously included a picture of a figure exiting a building, alongside a picture of Rocco Sollecito, and someone recognised it as Raff's dad.

Picture now gone.

Move along, nothing to see.

Yeah..... that's not what happened though, is it Vixen?

You see, suppose I was writing a media article on the funeral of (camp UK TV personality) Dale Winton. I wouldn't just google something like "Winton photo" - and then unintentionally place into the article a photo of a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT person who happened to share the surname "Winton" - e.g. Sir Nicholas Winton (who saved Jewish children in occupied Europe in WWII).

Likewise, whoever wrote this article - assuming he/she had even a tiny amount of competence as a journalist - would not have inadvertently included a photo of Francesco Sollecito in a story about Rocco Sollecito.

No, Vixen. In all probability, what ACTUALLY happened here is that someone in the pro-guilt community mendaciously added in that photo of Francesco Sollecito (taken in a completely different place at a completely different time....), in order to try to deceive people into thinking that the article was associating Francesco Sollecito with any kind of eulogy for Rocco Sollecito.

Again: I realise that credulous poor-thinkers with gigantic inbuilt biases might find it extremely difficult to understand/accept that this is what the evidence suggests. And for the pro-guilt community, OF COURSE it's easier and much more convenient to "believe" that we were all innocently led astray by the careless mistake of a journalist (in Vixen-parlance: "It weren't our fault, guvnor!"). But I guess that's illustrative of the difference between almost all pro-acquittal/pro-innocence commentators (who use critical thinking and rational analysis, with absence of prior judgement or any inbuilt bias, to look at all the (rational, credible) evidence and draw objective conclusions from it) and almost all pro-guilt commentators (who don't......).
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 01:29 PM   #394
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,554
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I'm only seeing one photo missing which I assume corresponds to the photo of Rocco Sollecito in the dot nut posting. It appears to me they took two pictures from the article (Rocco, the church) and then added the 'generic' photo from Francesco as well as the one of him leaving the courthouse in 2007, and then copied the one paragraph from the article which was not nearly as clear/definitive as the one prior to it which made it clear the mass was never held. Why the picture of Rocco would now not be in the article I have no idea, but it's irrelevant.

What would be interesting would be if someone with intellectual honesty - and sufficient intellect and perspicacity - within the pro-guilt community would seek to find out exactly WHO among them consciously and knowingly doctored that media article in this way, in a deliberately deceptive attempt to link Francesco Sollecito with Rocco Sollecito. But I think we all know that will never, ever happen.
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 01:30 PM   #395
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,554
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
In short: No.

You still resort to all kinds of excuses as to why this imagined relationship has never once been mentioned in any article or why PGP like yourself have never provided evidence of it.
Is it logical in your world that all those articles on Rocco's death would not include identifying Rocco as Raffaele's uncle the year after Raffaele was definitively acquitted of one of the most publicized crimes in Italy? REALLY?

Learn to stop digging the hole and to admit when you're wrong.


"Could be a twin born five days apart?" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 03:22 PM   #396
TruthCalls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,085
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Did you click on the highlighted link above? This is to the original article.

Of course they'd never admit it. They never admit to being wrong about anything. I think it's a prerequisite for being a TJMKer in good standing.
Yeah, I'm looking at the original. And btw, if you view the image info for the missing photo you'll see the source of it is... TJMK!

https://truejustice.org/ee/images/pe...page4/4092.jpg

Go figure.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 04:22 PM   #397
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,198
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Yeah, I'm looking at the original. And btw, if you view the image info for the missing photo you'll see the source of it is... TJMK!

https://truejustice.org/ee/images/pe...page4/4092.jpg

Go figure.
This reminds me of the BTK killer. He sent a a floppy disk to the police that included metadata that said the disk was used by a computer at the Christ Lutheran Church and the document on it was saved by someone named Dennis. The police then found that Dennis Rader was the President of the Congregation. Whoops!

Here we now have proof that someone at TJMK published a lie and fabricated their supporting evidence.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 04:55 PM   #398
Numbers
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,439
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This reminds me of the BTK killer. He sent a a floppy disk to the police that included metadata that said the disk was used by a computer at the Christ Lutheran Church and the document on it was saved by someone named Dennis. The police then found that Dennis Rader was the President of the Congregation. Whoops!

Here we now have proof that someone at TJMK published a lie and fabricated their supporting evidence.
Repeating:

Some of the guilters fabricate hoaxes, then their follower-guilters spread the hoaxes. It's a hoax, just like the police and prosecutor claiming that "see you later, good evening" in Italian means making an appointment with someone to commit a murder/rape.

The core guilters are people who like hoaxes and enjoy fabricating and continuing them - while their follower-guilters don't have the critical thinking skills to recognize the hoaxes and/or are so blinded by bias that they choose not to recognize the hoaxes and/or enjoy a "good" malicious hoax also, so they spread the hoaxes online.
Numbers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 05:06 PM   #399
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How ironic coming from someone who maintains that every expert, witness, and judge who does not support guilt is corrupt and/or a shill.

Besides, as the vilest Writer has his Readers, so the greatest Liar has his Believers; and it often happens, that if a Lie be believ’d only for an Hour, it has done its Work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…

~ Jonathan Swift, 1710
That's my new favourite word. 'Vilest'. Please can we bring it back. Some of the best lines include this word. For example, 'the vilest offender'.

It has a ring to it. 'V i l e s t'. It rolls off the tongue. 'Vilest'.....

'Vile bodies'. Lets have a vile revivial. 'The vilest writer' ~ Jonathan Swift - what a fine writer.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2018, 05:08 PM   #400
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,304
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I'm only seeing one photo missing which I assume corresponds to the photo of Rocco Sollecito in the dot nut posting. It appears to me they took two pictures from the article (Rocco, the church) and then added the 'generic' photo from Francesco as well as the one of him leaving the courthouse in 2007, and then copied the one paragraph from the article which was not nearly as clear/definitive as the one prior to it which made it clear the mass was never held. Why the picture of Rocco would now not be in the article I have no idea, but it's irrelevant.
That's right.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:18 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.