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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 6th July 2018, 08:21 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
a fair number also bought the absurd lie that she sold uranium to Russia.


Which is an odd thing to be mad about seeing as though they now believe Russia is our only friend.
Damn that is such a good point.
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Old 7th July 2018, 01:45 AM   #82
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Well, logger (may God rest his merry soul) said that Trump had to be nice to Putin because you had to keep "bad Actors" on-side. So therefore it makes sense that Trump is friendly with enemies of the US and unfriendly with friends of the US.
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Old 7th July 2018, 08:09 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The US has wanted Assad gone as much as we wanted Saddam and Qadaffi gone. All of which were/are ruthless violent and cruel undemocratic leaders. The Russians backed Assad and simply don't give a damn about how many people he murders as long as it provides stability as well as money.
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I disagree. Syria is in a strategic location in the Middle East and provides a warm water base outside the Black Sea.

Russia wants a client state there
Syria has been a Russian ally for years. As for the Russian Naval base..... maybe. The shortage of warm water bases has always been something of an issue for Russia. Nevertheless, I think that they, just like the US, even more so because of proximity are interested in stability with all the Muslim nations to their South.
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Old 7th July 2018, 08:14 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Well, logger (may God rest his merry soul) said that Trump had to be nice to Putin because you had to keep "bad Actors" on-side. So therefore it makes sense that Trump is friendly with enemies of the US and unfriendly with friends of the US.
That thinking is simply idiotic. Why improve relations with Russia when Russia hasn't come to heel? They haven't budged on election meddling, they still have troops occupying the sovereign territory of two neighbors, and they tried to murder two people in the UK. Let them have improved relations when they change their behavior.
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Old 7th July 2018, 08:30 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Are you able to hear yourself?

"The russians spent thousands of dollars on facebook ads! We are under attack!!!!!" "Putin once said if he could choose he would prefer the one who didn't threaten to shoot down russian planes while they are fighting US armed terrorists - how dare he!"

"The US has wanted Assad gone as much as we wanted Saddam and Qadaffi gone." (Actually I don't blame you for Quadaffi, that was the french - just as an aside)

That's not for you to decide! Porochenko has been "killing his own people" in the donbas for 4 years. Why don't you want him gone?
Oh nonsense. And I am not deciding. I am saying that you are oversimpifying what has been happening in Syria. Russia was aiding the very brutal undemocratic Assad who was and is trying to murder any and all opposition which include both members of ISIS and pro-democracy forces which the US was supporting. Assad was regularly using chemical weapons on entire towns.

There are a lot of bad actors and Putin is far worse than Porochenko. I don't blame Russia for trying to influence elections abroad. No, that's not true. I blame them, but it is to be expected.

Nobody wants ISIS, but should we really be supporting leaders like Assad? I don't think so.

What I don't get about Trump is his fierce loyalty to Putin when Trump isn't loyal to anyone? Trump has started absurd fights with all of America's most staunch allies and yet is kissing Putin's ass. Why?
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Old 7th July 2018, 09:34 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
That thinking is simply idiotic. Why improve relations with Russia when Russia hasn't come to heel? They haven't budged on election meddling, they still have troops occupying the sovereign territory of two neighbors, and they tried to murder two people in the UK. Let them have improved relations when they change their behavior.
Trump says Putin is fine. So Putin is obviously fine. Everything else is fake news.
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Old 7th July 2018, 10:16 AM   #87
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It may be worth noting that it looks like there may well be yet another effort in play to undermine the Russia investigation. In this case, by appointing a pointedly unqualified person with concerning Russia connections to an important related position.
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Old 8th July 2018, 02:52 AM   #88
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https://twitter.com/shaneharris/stat...68931636088832

Quote:
Trump is dismissive and combative in private calls with allies. But he treats Putin as a “confidant” and seeks his advice on security issues, @GregJaffe, @jdawsey1, and @CarolLeonnig report. One of many stunning revelations in their latest. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.328af6a687b3
There's a passage from the article embedded in the tweet.
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Old 8th July 2018, 02:55 AM   #89
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https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/s...63759735013376

Quote:
House majority leader told colleagues last year "I think Putin pays" Trump. Paul Ryan told them not to leak remarks.
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Old 8th July 2018, 04:10 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Until after he announced his retirement.
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Old 8th July 2018, 11:12 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/shaneharris/stat...68931636088832

There's a passage from the article embedded in the tweet.

Originally Posted by @about_scott
Putin playing Trump like a fiddle. Building him up with words while trashing those who have damaged his ego. Even using Trump terminology and personal terms like 'friendship'.
Originally Posted by @NaomioftheNorth
His entanglements w/Russia have had decades to mature.

I wonder now how much of Trump's terminology in this context actually came from Putin and his representatives...
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Old 9th July 2018, 07:05 AM   #92
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OK, so we have this defense by Giuliani:
Quote:
NYT: In May, CNN’s Dana Bash interviewed Giuliani, and she posited that the “Spygate” saga was “an intentional strategy to undermine the investigation, knowing that they, the investigators, the special counsel, it’s their policy not to talk. But you are very free to and are very aggressive about doing so.”

Giuliani responded in part:

“Of course, we have to do it in defending the president. We are defending — to a large extent, remember, Dana, we are defending here, it is for public opinion, because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. Members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. So, our jury is the American — as it should be — is the American people.”
I realize the GOP flip-flops 180º on any issue, solely depending on whether they are defending white supremacy or attacking some convenient target, so no one should expect any sort of consistency. Yet I still wish for it! The above would normally rank as "left-wing direct-democracy drivel; the US is a Republic" if on the attack. In defense, they are happy to call for mob rule. Same deal applies to all the Trump references to "the 2ndA people." Sickos, through and through.

I hate low-down, lying fascists. Wars of aggression, torture, child abuse, peeing in every pool they can find 24/7/365... Makes one wish (sigh) one could use some of their own medicine on them. Say, daily, one per state.
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Old 13th July 2018, 12:58 AM   #93
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https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1017367117962899456

Quote:
Trump, who has pointedly lashed out at allies like Trudeau, Macron and Merkel, said this today of Putin and Russia’s attacks on the US elections: "He may deny it. All I can do is say, 'Did you?' and 'Don't do it again.'"
If that's really all he can do, then doesn't that make him the most ineffective president ever?
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Old 13th July 2018, 11:20 AM   #94
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Quote:
WaPo: Update: And yet the White House still doesn't seem willing to totally concede the point. In a statement, White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters refers to "the alleged hacking."

"Today’s charges include no allegations of knowing involvement by anyone on the campaign and no allegations that the alleged hacking affected the election result," Walters said. "This is consistent with what we have been saying all along.”
How manly. Republicans sure are the "tough" guys, lying down before enemies at the first chance to throw themselves to the ground. Embarrassing.
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Old 14th July 2018, 01:29 AM   #95
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New Intrigue As Donald Trump Remarks Pair With Alleged Hacking Timeline

Tick, tick, tick... No wonder anti-democratic, fascist Republican traitors want to end the rule of law as soon as possible and undermine faith in the justice system. It's all pathological liars have got left when caught red-handed, over and over and over.

Red-handed. Kinda sounds vastly more apropos nowadays.
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Old 14th July 2018, 01:32 AM   #96
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Quote:
"Today’s charges include no allegations of knowing involvement by anyone on the campaign and no allegations that the alleged hacking affected the election result,"
Ooh, now that's a lie. It says that senior members (note - plural, not singular) of the Trump campaign were in regular contact with Russian conspirators, and that they discussed stolen documents. Stone is obviously one of them, given that he's talked publicly about being in contact with Guccifer 2.0. I'd expect him to be the first indictment on conspiracy charges for a member of Trump's team. Don Jr. seems like a fair bet for another.
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Old 14th July 2018, 01:59 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Ooh, now that's a lie. It says that senior members (note - plural, not singular) of the Trump campaign were in regular contact with Russian conspirators, and that they discussed stolen documents. Stone is obviously one of them, given that he's talked publicly about being in contact with Guccifer 2.0. I'd expect him to be the first indictment on conspiracy charges for a member of Trump's team. Don Jr. seems like a fair bet for another.
Where was that in this, in a way that actually makes the statement that was made a lie?

Bear in mind, of course, that "false fronts" are involved here.

Either way, for the fun of it, here's a take on it from the Daily Kos.

New indictments show Russian hacking effort was large, intense, sustained—and GOP supported
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Old 14th July 2018, 02:58 AM   #98
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Quote:
Warning Lights Are Blinking Red,’ Top Intelligence Officer Says of Russian Attacks
WASHINGTON — The nation’s top intelligence officer [Ed.: Trump's man] said on Friday that the persistent danger of Russian cyberattacks today was akin to the warnings the United States had of stepped-up terror threats ahead of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

That note of alarm sounded by Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, came on the same day that 12 Russian agents were indicted on charges of hacking the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Mr. Coats said those indictments illustrated Moscow’s continuing strategy to undermine the United States’ democracy and erode its institutions.

“The warning lights are blinking red again,” Mr. Coats said as he cautioned of cyberthreats. “Today, the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack.”
Any of our resident Trump apologists care to step up to the plate and explain how not responding to this is not willful treason? Hmmm? Sorry, not possible.
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Old 14th July 2018, 03:25 AM   #99
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https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1017872756891938816

Quote:
Now is a good time to remember that House Intel Republicans refused to subpoena Roger Stone to get his DM's with Guccifer 2.0.
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Old 14th July 2018, 03:49 AM   #100
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These latest indictments kind of took the piss out of the Strzok grilling debacle, didn't it?
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Old 14th July 2018, 05:02 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Where was that in this, in a way that actually makes the statement that was made a lie?
Quote:
The Conspirators, posing as Guccifer 2.0, also communicated with U.S. persons about the
release of stolen documents. On or about August 15, 2016, the Conspirators, posing as Guccifer
2.0, wrote to a person who wasin regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign
of Donald J. Trump, “thank u for writing back . . . do u find anyt[h]ing interesting in the docs i
posted?” On or about August 17, 2016, the Conspirators added, “please tell me if i can help u
anyhow . . . it would be a great pleasure to me.” On or about September 9, 2016, the Conspirators,
again posing as Guccifer 2.0, referred to a stolen DCCC document posted online and asked the
person, “what do u think of the info on the turnout model for the democrats entire presidential
campaign.” The person responded, “[p]retty standard.”
Bear in mind that Stone has now confirmed what we all knew anyway, that he's the person mentioned in this paragraph.
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Old 14th July 2018, 05:05 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
These latest indictments kind of took the piss out of the Strzok grilling debacle, didn't it?
Seth Abramson believes that, as Trump has known about these indictments for a few days, that some of those involved in the Strzok questioning will have known about them, too, and that the entire point of it was to distract from and preemptively lay the groundwork for discrediting them.
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Old 14th July 2018, 09:23 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Any of our resident Trump apologists care to step up to the plate and explain how not responding to this is not willful treason? Hmmm? Sorry, not possible.
I'm not a Trump apologist, but... Congress hasn't officially declared it a war, therefore it can't qualify as treason, legally, is probably still in play.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Bear in mind that Stone has now confirmed what we all knew anyway, that he's the person mentioned in this paragraph.
Hmm. It feels like it's a stretch to claim that the quoted quite qualifies for that purpose. Almost, but intentionally a couple hairs short, given potential alternate explanations. It certainly helps lay the groundwork for an actual allegation of knowing conspiracy, on the other hand.
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Old 16th July 2018, 05:32 AM   #104
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A one-on-one meeting with Putin is highly unusual. Of course, former presidents didn't have a pee tape to worry about.

The chance that we'll ever learn what is said is slim, depending on Putin.

Originally Posted by An actual strong leader
We know what you did, and if it doesn't stop we're going to...
Originally Posted by A Compromised boot licker
I will absolutely bring that up. I don't think you'll have any, ‘Gee, I did it, I did it, you got me. There won't be a Perry Mason here, I don't think, but you never know what happens, right? But I will absolutely, firmly ask the question, and hopefully we'll have a very good relationship with Russia.
Rest easy. he's going to ask firmly.
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Old 16th July 2018, 08:00 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I'm not a Trump apologist, but... Congress hasn't officially declared it a war, therefore it can't qualify as treason, legally, is probably still in play.
The United States Constitution. Article III, section 3 reads as follows: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. ..."

Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
A one-on-one meeting with Putin is highly unusual.
"... No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Now we know why the one-on-one.
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Old 16th July 2018, 09:39 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
The United States Constitution. Article III, section 3 reads as follows: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. ..."
And what counts as an "Enemy?" Putin's our Dear Leader, right?


Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
"... No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Now we know why the one-on-one.
Pssh. Like Trump would care about things like that. Obviously, there's nothing wrong going on there. Just Trump licking Putin's boots to make him not mess with our compromised infrastructure and not wanting the associated headlines that would undermine national security. The same goes for that Republican visit to Russia on July 4th. Those men are heroes who are just sacrificing their image to buy time to find and remove Russia's cyber bombs!
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Old 16th July 2018, 09:45 AM   #107
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After Trump’s disgraceful press conference today, we can conclude that he is the biggest coward to ever hold the presidency. He says nasty things about people when he is not confronting them face to face, only behind their backs. He is a classical coward.
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Old 16th July 2018, 12:31 PM   #108
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What more need be said, after NK, and now this Helsinki press conference, a litany of ill-conceived and barely disguised Russian and alt-right conceits?

Putin's bitch Trump now pole dances under the name Hell Sinky.
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Old 17th July 2018, 03:42 AM   #109
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https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1019009094584291328

Quote:
I wrote this in April, after the GOP-led House intel committee shut down its Russia probe.

Newly important: They refused multiple requests by Dems to interview key NRA/Russia-related witnesses including *Maria Butina*, Alexander Torshin, & Rick Erickson.

https://shareblue.com/house-intellig...rump-campaign/
https://twitter.com/DHStokyo/status/1019085132626472961

Quote:
This, from @RVAwonk, bears repeating.

The Dems asked that Maria Butina be questioned by the House Intel committee.

The GOP, in the majority, refused. They shut down their Russia investigation.

Today's news: "Butina is charged in U.S. with acting as Russian Federation agent"
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Old 17th July 2018, 05:00 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

I have no idea if they were just being a-holes, but that action certainly makes it look like they were consciously trying to hide something. Maybe not all of them, but enough to convince others it was a good idea to reject the requests.

If "both sides do it", it must mean Democrats are way better at hiding their dirt than Republicans, yet mysteriously can't turn that skill toward obtaining political power. No, at this point, I'd say it's pretty clear that the left side of the U.S. political spectrum is simply less corrupt on the whole. Occam's Razor and all that, you know...
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Old 17th July 2018, 05:51 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I have no idea if they were just being a-holes, but that action certainly makes it look like they were consciously trying to hide something. Maybe not all of them, but enough to convince others it was a good idea to reject the requests.

If "both sides do it", it must mean Democrats are way better at hiding their dirt than Republicans, yet mysteriously can't turn that skill toward obtaining political power. No, at this point, I'd say it's pretty clear that the left side of the U.S. political spectrum is simply less corrupt on the whole. Occam's Razor and all that, you know...
Except in Illinois.
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Old 17th July 2018, 10:44 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Told ya. The DC Chapter of United Russia.
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Old 17th July 2018, 10:44 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
"Treason never prospers
and what's the reason?
If it prospers
None dare call it treason".
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Old 17th July 2018, 10:52 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
The United States Constitution. Article III, section 3 reads as follows: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. ..."



"... No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Now we know why the one-on-one.
If you honestly believe what President Trump did yesterday was treason I believe your judgement is clouded by hate for him.

Do you think Russia was not an enemy of the US when President Obama said "more flexibility after the elections" but they are now? Or was that also an act of treason.

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Old 17th July 2018, 10:57 AM   #116
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"Enemies" means wartime, not every country that we might consider a geopolitical adversary at the time.

So no, Trump didn't commit treason no matter how much smoke he blew up Putin's ass.

It's a good thing that the definition of treason is so strict. It prevents political abuse of the crime of treason and legal nightmares developing from changing international political winds.
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Old 17th July 2018, 11:07 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
"Enemies" means wartime, not every country that we might consider a geopolitical adversary at the time.

So no, Trump didn't commit treason no matter how much smoke he blew up Putin's ass.

It's a good thing that the definition of treason is so strict. It prevents political abuse of the crime of treason and legal nightmares developing from changing international political winds.
Legally for the US, at least. I agree that it's a good thing to have the standards that high, for that matter. On the other hand, there's an absurdly high chance that Trump's actions did, in fact, meet the normal usage of the term.
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Old 17th July 2018, 11:35 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If you honestly believe what President Trump did yesterday was treason I believe your judgement is clouded by hate for him.

Do you think Russia was not an enemy of the US when President Obama said "more flexibility after the elections" but they are now? Or was that also an act of treason.
What Trump did was capitulate to a foreign power that launched an attack on our Democratic institutions. It is an abdication of his responsibility to defend our nation.
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Old 17th July 2018, 11:41 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
What Trump did was capitulate to a foreign power that launched an attack on our Democratic institutions. It is an abdication of his responsibility to defend our nation.
Perhaps. But it's not treason, and unless Congress stands up to him it's his legal right to do it.

The impeachment process was put into the constitution under the assumption that Congress wouldn't be ok with a corrupt President whose primary allegiance seems to be to a foreign power.

That appears to be a faulty assumption on the Founders' part.
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Old 17th July 2018, 11:49 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If you honestly believe what President Trump did yesterday was treason I believe your judgement is clouded by hate for him.
Not sure what your claim is here.

Are you arguing that what Trump did just wasn't that bad, or that it was bad but it just doesn't fit the textbook definition of "treason"?
Quote:
Do you think Russia was not an enemy of the US when President Obama said "more flexibility after the elections" but they are now? Or was that also an act of treason.
There is nothing wrong with engaging in negotiations between political leaders, or even making deals with people who might otherwise be opponents. There IS something wrong with excessive praise and/or deference from one leader to another.
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