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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 17th July 2018, 11:55 AM   #121
Hlafordlaes
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If you honestly believe what President Trump did yesterday was treason I believe your judgement is clouded by hate for him.
Obama is not the President, even if he looms ever larger as the far greater authority on democracy and the rule of law. Bears repeating: Black man, a greater authority than bully white man. (Enjoy!) Regardless, irrelevant to the argument. There is substantiated evidence of a severe and ongoing attack on constitutional democracy, and Trump took a knee. Cowardice and weakness themselves took another, in what may by rights be called Trump's Epic Flail. A pink hanky waving retreat on the world stage. Beat, and bad.
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Old 17th July 2018, 12:45 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If you honestly believe what President Trump did yesterday was treason I believe your judgement is clouded by hate for him.
It was right up to the line. Certainly, I've never seen a president in my lifetime do anything like that.

Quote:
Do you think Russia was not an enemy of the US when President Obama said "more flexibility after the elections" but they are now? Or was that also an act of treason.
Obama said that in 2012. By then it was clear the GOP's mission in life was to obstruct Obama at every turn. It was also clear that many Republicans were so deranged by their hatred of him, they were convinced Obama was a Muslim from Kenya (as of seven months ago, a majority of Republicans STILL believe that). So any overtures Obama might have made towards Putin during the election would have gotten him tarred-and-feathered by Republicans, and he didn't want that during an election year. That's what I think he was talking about when he was talking about "flexibility after the elections".
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Old 17th July 2018, 01:26 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Perhaps. But it's not treason, and unless Congress stands up to him it's his legal right to do it.

The impeachment process was put into the constitution under the assumption that Congress wouldn't be ok with a corrupt President whose primary allegiance seems to be to a foreign power.

That appears to be a faulty assumption on the Founders' part.
I did not say it was Treason.The code on Treason is incomplete: it's not an enemy anymore if you just up and surrender.
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Old 18th July 2018, 03:08 AM   #124
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Senator Jeanne Shaheen calls for the interpreter at the Trump/Putin meeting to testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
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Old 18th July 2018, 03:11 AM   #125
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Cambridge Analytica's Facebook data was accessed from Russia
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Old 18th July 2018, 04:58 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I am not a native speaker in english, so the finer points sometimes elude me.

Is "preferred" the same thing as "tried to help"?

A wise statesman once said "The 80ies called. they want their foreign policy back"

Last edited by magellan; 18th July 2018 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:24 AM   #127
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https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...89905020051456

Quote:
#Russia's state TV host:
"It is very bizarre, you can't bash your own country like that - especially when you're the President."
Female host: "When Trump says our relations are bad because of American foolishness and stupidity, he really smells like an agent of the Kremlin." ©️
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:25 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
I am not a native speaker in english, so the finer points sometimes elude me.

Is "preferred" the same thing as "tried to help"?

A wise statesman once said "The 80ies called. they want their foreign policy back"
In this instance it means that Putin wanted Trump to win the 2016 election.
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:26 AM   #129
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Russian Defence Ministry issues statement that Russia "is ready for the practical implementation of agreements in the area of global security reached in Helsinki between Russian President Vladimir Putin and US President Donald Trump"

As yet, the only Americans who know what was said in the meeting are Trump and the translator.
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:33 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
As yet, the only Americans who know what was said in the meeting are Trump and the translator.
Right, I would expect nothing less than protection of classified info, perhaps if Hillary was president, we would all know.
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:38 AM   #131
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Am I wrong that the Intelligence community that Trump doubts, included James Clapper at the time of the hacking?

Quote:
Clapper is now regularly appearing on cable shows which, for example, used Clapper’s word as proof that Trump was lying in saying that there was surveillance of Trump Tower carried out by President Barack Obama. CNN and other networks used Clapper’s assurance without ever mentioning that he previously lied about surveillance programs.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/1045991001/
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:43 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Right, I would expect nothing less than protection of classified info, perhaps if Hillary was president, we would all know.
Ummm.. The info is not protected by the u.s. if, as has been suggested in a previously given reference, that the russian defense ministry knows.

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Old 18th July 2018, 06:05 AM   #133
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My oh my, how the frightards cut and run from the facts. Even denials have the lies built in:
Quote:
I accept our intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election took place,” Trump also said, before completely undercutting what he had just said.

It could be other people also,” Trump said. “There’s a lot of people out there.”
Cowering Coward in Chief, leader of the Pink Hanky Parade. If you cannot man up to the facts, you cannot man up, period. Speaks to why they run to beat up on a woman who is not even in power, and treat an ongoing battle as one that is over, so they cannot be seen as abandoning the field, yellow backs turned in panicked flight.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:30 AM   #134
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Can you imagine any scenario, where Trump stands there and throws Putin under the bus in front of the media?

Options
1. You call Putin a liar and go back to the path that isn't working, media attacks for lack of diplomacy.
2. You show Putin you are not calling him a liar in public, and build a relationship with the adversary. Media attacks you anyway.

You take option 2 everytime.
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:34 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Can you imagine any scenario, where Trump stands there and throws Putin under the bus in front of the media?

Options
1. You call Putin a liar and go back to the path that isn't working, media attacks for lack of diplomacy.
2. You show Putin you are not calling him a liar in public, and build a relationship with the adversary. Media attacks you anyway.

You take option 2 everytime.
Do I need to point out that this is a false dichotomy?
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:35 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Can you imagine any scenario, where Trump stands there and throws Putin under the bus in front of the media?

Options
1. You call Putin a liar and go back to the path that isn't working, media attacks for lack of diplomacy.
2. You show Putin you are not calling him a liar in public, and build a relationship with the adversary. Media attacks you anyway.

You take option 2 everytime.
You forgot about the part where we're supposed to punish people to attack our country.

Why do you hate America?
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Old 18th July 2018, 06:49 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Can you imagine any scenario, where Trump stands there and throws Putin under the bus in front of the media?

Options
1. You call Putin a liar and go back to the path that isn't working, media attacks for lack of diplomacy.
2. You show Putin you are not calling him a liar in public, and build a relationship with the adversary. Media attacks you anyway.

You take option 2 everytime.
3. You wear a tan suit or use Dijon mustard on a burger and it TEOTWAWKI
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:13 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
In this instance it means that Putin wanted Trump to win the 2016 election.
from your link:
Quote:
Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee say they are standing by one of the key conclusions in their report on Russian election interference that questioned whether Russian President Vladimir Putin was trying to help Donald Trump get elected President.
On Monday, Putin said at a news conference alongside Trump in Helsinki, Finland, that he wanted Trump to win the 2016 election over Hillary Clinton, while denying that Russia meddled in the election.
This is not a contradiction.
You can prefer something without helping it to happen.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:14 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Do I need to point out that this is a false dichotomy?
That implies the person presenting the argument didn't know that in the first place, which he did. It's crazy that Trump has stood on both sides of this issue already, and his supporters have tried to cover for him both times. That can't be healthy to constantly have to betray yourself just to support this *******.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:26 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
I am not a native speaker in english, so the finer points sometimes elude me.

Is "preferred" the same thing as "tried to help"?

A wise statesman once said "The 80ies called. they want their foreign policy back"
Keep in mind, that wording was created by people actively trying to protect Trump. Other sources, including both Democrats on that same committee and both Republicans and Democrats on the Senate committee are more specific and say that Russia was trying to help Trump win the election.

While preferred could mean that, you are correct in thinking that it’s more open to interpretation than what the intelligence community is actually saying. The use of softer less specific terminology is probably no accident. This type of terminology is less threatening and less likely to create negative sentiment towards Trump while still being a technically valid description of what the intelligence community says happened.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:29 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
This is not a contradiction.
No, but this is:

Quote:
"The Intelligence Community Assessment judgments on Putin's strategic intentions did not employ proper analytic tradecraft," the report stated, adding that the committee "identified significant intelligence tradecraft failings that undermine confidence in the ICA judgments regarding Russian President Vladimir Putin's strategic objectives for disrupting the U.S. election."
Quote:
You can prefer something without helping it to happen.
Nobody said you couldn't.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:12 AM   #142
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https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/...20180790530049

[quote]BREAKING

Q: "Is Russia still targeting the U.S.?"

Trump: "No."

Just now in the Cabinet meeting.[quote]

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/...20571661918208

Quote:
Trump adds: "No president has been as tough as I have been on Russia. I think President Putin knows that better than anyone. Better than the media."
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...21432106606597

Quote:
DNI Coats: “Today, the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack...[Russia] is the most aggressive foreign actor, no question. And they continue their efforts to undermine our democracy." https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/14/polit...sia/index.html
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:20 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/...20180790530049

BREAKING

Q: "Is Russia still targeting the U.S.?"

Trump: "No."

Just now in the Cabinet meeting.
Quote:
Uh oh, Trump now says he's tougher on Russia than St. Reagan!

I wonder if he'd get away with saying he's bigger than Jesus?
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Last edited by LSSBB; 18th July 2018 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Winder????
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:29 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I winder if he'd get away with saying he's bigger than Jesus?
I wonder if we'll get lucky and he'll try to prove it:

"Oh yeah? That guy could only walk on water. I can walk on air!"
*Promptly opens door to Air Force One and steps out, mid-flight...*

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Old 18th July 2018, 11:50 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Turns out Executive Privilege applies.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:56 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Right, I would expect nothing less than protection of classified info, perhaps if Hillary was president, we would all know.
You support the guy who, bragging about the great intelligence he had access to, gave away state secrets to the Russian Ambassador and the Russian Foreign Minister shortly after his inauguration in a meeting in the Oval Office he kicked the American Press out of.

You might want to reassess your priorities here.
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:16 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Right, I would expect nothing less than protection of classified info, perhaps if Hillary was president, we would all know.
One of these days, Trump and his apologists are going to have to stop blaming Obama and/or Hillary for everything and using them as their whipping boys.
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:26 PM   #148
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I see Sanders is now claiming Trump's response of "no", when asked if Russia is still targeting the United States ahead of this year's congressional elections, really meant he wasn't going to answer any more questions. Yet he did.

The WH is counting on the American people to be stupid enough to believe that along with Trump's ridiculous "would" vs "wouldn't" excuse yesterday. Sadly, they have some grounds to base that on.
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:30 PM   #149
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Did the CIA/FBI leak fake intel to trump, and only trump prior to the putin meeting; when it comes back from putin to the FBI/CIA, payback time. After taking a brad pitt (or is it a donald trump now) on the FBI and CIA, what is like to be treated like the enemy of the people like the free press.

Who has the football stealth listening device. Poor trump, had no real football to give putin since he also took a donald trump on the NFL. He can't to this, "We call it soccer, oh, but let me give you are real football, a maga football (rugby? ___)"

Get back to work all your "haters and losers", trump supports don't have to make up the insults, trump is the leader of insults, and name calling, the cult leader.
http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/07/donald-trump-haters-tweets/
No need for independent thinking, just repeat fearless leaders words.
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:52 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Right, I would expect nothing less than protection of classified info, perhaps if Hillary was president, we would all know.
I just want to make sure you're clear on something. Putin has told the Russian defense minister about agreements he reached with Trump on Monday. We don't know if our own defense department knows. It's dubious that Trump could even articulate those agreements with any clarity. Is Trump obliged to tell the public anything about them? Probably not. But is he obliged to tell his Secretary of State and Defense Department? It takes some incredibly twisted logic to think that Russia's cabinet ministers should know things that America's cabinet doesn't.
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:54 PM   #151
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.@maggieNYT asks @WHPressSec abt Russia’s call to intv @Billbrowder & @McFaul: “Pres will meet w/ his team & we’ll let you know when we have an announcement on that front.” Acknowledges the topic was discussed privately bween Trump & Putin.

Democrats should introduce articles of impeachment over this to if nothing else forcing the GOP to defend it on record. He agreed to hand over innocent US and British citizens to a murderous regime.
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:01 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
One of these days, Trump and his apologists are going to have to stop blaming Obama and/or Hillary for everything and using them as their whipping boys.
Why ?
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:32 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I see Sanders is now claiming Trump's response of "no", when asked if Russia is still targeting the United States ahead of this year's congressional elections, really meant he wasn't going to answer any more questions. Yet he did.

The WH is counting on the American people to be stupid enough to believe that along with Trump's ridiculous "would" vs "wouldn't" excuse yesterday. Sadly, they have some grounds to base that on.
I can so picture that committee meeting:
OK everybody, watch this clip. Free Starbucks for the first person to come up with a different meaning of 'no'.
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:39 PM   #154
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Remember the Spanish wiretaps related to Trump Jr.?

Quote:
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has received wiretaps obtained by Spanish police which implicate Donald Trump Jr. in a plot to meet with Alexander Torshin, a high-ranking official of Russia’s Central Bank, according to a federal prosecutor in Spain on Friday. And, the prosecutor notes, those wiretaps don’t bode well for the president’s son.

The above information was originally reported in May of this year but is receiving revived interest across social media because Torshin is said to have been the handler of alleged Russian agent Mariia “Maria” Butina. Butina was recently arrested on charges of attempting to influence U.S. politics and policy on the Kremlin’s behalf.
Linky.
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Old 18th July 2018, 02:56 PM   #155
kookbreaker
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Uh oh, Trump now says he's tougher on Russia than St. Reagan!
?
Reagan: “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!!”

Trump: “Putin said he didn’t do it...”
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Old 19th July 2018, 03:38 AM   #156
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https://twitter.com/cameron_kasky/st...14229537529856

Quote:
Wait, hold on, this is getting lost in the fire:

The NRA was LITERALLY colluding with a Russian spy and within 24 HOURS, there’s a law that saves them from having to disclose their dark money donors to the IRS.

That’s a thing that happened.
Article about the rule
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Old 19th July 2018, 03:39 AM   #157
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It's being reported that top administration officials have no idea what Trump agreed to with Putin
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Old 19th July 2018, 03:42 AM   #158
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Russia says that the idea of questioning the interpreter at the Trump/Putin meeting threatens “the whole idea of diplomacy"

Reminder: One of the things it appears Trump has agreed to with Putin is allowing Russian agents to question a former diplomat who has committed no crime about incidents that happened while he had diplomatic immunity.
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Old 19th July 2018, 04:17 AM   #159
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I wonder why you are surprised: the NRA is a Church, after all .
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Old 19th July 2018, 06:02 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Russia says that the idea of questioning the interpreter at the Trump/Putin meeting threatens “the whole idea of diplomacy"

Reminder: One of the things it appears Trump has agreed to with Putin is allowing Russian agents to question a former diplomat who has committed no crime about incidents that happened while he had diplomatic immunity.
Not just "a diplomat," but the U.S. ambassador to Russia. Putin also wants Trump to give him Bill Browder, the force behind the Magnitsky Act.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...&noredirect=on
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