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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 20th July 2018, 04:18 AM   #201
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Trump doesn't even like stenographers at his meetings. There was an article about it recently with an ex-stenographer. IIRC, it was said that Trump doesn't want to be reminded of what people actually said, he wants to remember whatever he thinks was said.

But the thing here for me is that if there really is a Russian recording, and if Trump really did do or say anything he shouldn't have (which, let's be honest, he probably did), then whether or not Putin had Kompromat on Trump before the meeting is moot, because he does now.
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Old 20th July 2018, 04:21 AM   #202
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I think that perhaps an interesting question is why Putin allowed a US translator to be there, if anything compromising was said. Putin speaks English - allegedly well enough to correct translators. So it doesn't seem that one was actually needed in order to communicate.
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Old 20th July 2018, 04:59 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Trump doesn't even like stenographers at his meetings. There was an article about it recently with an ex-stenographer. IIRC, it was said that Trump doesn't want to be reminded of what people actually said, he wants to remember whatever he thinks was said.

But the thing here for me is that if there really is a Russian recording, and if Trump really did do or say anything he shouldn't have (which, let's be honest, he probably did), then whether or not Putin had Kompromat on Trump before the meeting is moot, because he does now.
Here's the article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/o...ress-news.html
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Old 20th July 2018, 05:47 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
And was this the old, pro-Russia, Ukraine leadership ?
no.
It was basically a bribe to get a private meeting and public handshake with Trump to send a signal to Moscow that Ukraine was under Trump's protection.
In hindsight, it was money down the swamp.
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Old 20th July 2018, 05:49 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no.
It was basically a bribe to get a private meeting and public handshake with Trump to send a signal to Moscow that Ukraine was under Trump's protection.
In hindsight, it was money down the swamp.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 20th July 2018, 06:45 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think that perhaps an interesting question is why Putin allowed a US translator to be there, if anything compromising was said. Putin speaks English - allegedly well enough to correct translators. So it doesn't seem that one was actually needed in order to communicate.
No, but using one makes them work on an equal footing, while still giving him the advantage of understanding everything said in the room.
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Old 20th July 2018, 06:48 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
No, but using one makes them work on an equal footing, while still giving him the advantage of understanding everything said in the room.
But it also means that there's someone loyal to the US who understands everything that was said in the room. If Trump is truly under Putin's thumb, you'd have thought he'd want the meeting to remain as private as possible, at least from people on the US' side.
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Old 20th July 2018, 08:18 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
But it also means that there's someone loyal to the US who understands everything that was said in the room. If Trump is truly under Putin's thumb, you'd have thought he'd want the meeting to remain as private as possible, at least from people on the US' side.
Assumes facts not in evidence. Who picked Trump's translator?
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Old 20th July 2018, 08:26 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh, OK, you mean who has the Sauron role.

I thought Saruman was the villain in the post. But I can't find it now.
Keep in mind that Saroun was really just an up-jumped lackey of MelkorÖ
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Old 20th July 2018, 08:42 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Assumes facts not in evidence. Who picked Trump's translator?
I've been thinking much the same thing. I think that it's quite worth asking the person to recount the meeting for the sake of things like understanding what agreements Trump's choosing to make that are absolutely required for things to function, but not to give undue trust to what's said. I would suggest demanding that Congress pointedly craft a law disallowing this from being doable in the future, either way.
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Old 20th July 2018, 08:53 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think that perhaps an interesting question is why Putin allowed a US translator to be there, if anything compromising was said. Putin speaks English - allegedly well enough to correct translators. So it doesn't seem that one was actually needed in order to communicate.
Maybe he needed someone who spoke trumpeese to translate it into English?
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Old 20th July 2018, 09:15 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Of course who knows what President Trump agreed to in the meeting. There is no objective impartial record and President Trump has already demonstrated that his memory of events is quite malleable.
Actually, the referendum was raised in the later meeting with Pompeo and others present. Whether it was also raised in the earlier meeting remains, of course, a mystery.
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Old 20th July 2018, 09:19 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Assumes facts not in evidence. Who picked Trump's translator?

Long-time State Dept. employee. But, interestingly, some translators say that they concentrate so much on translating the words at the moment that have limited memory of the conversation.
Quote:
“Do you really believe a person who has worked that hard, that intensely in that sort of way for so long, can really remember every detail of what she has done?” she said. “You’re listening, you’re writing, you’re figuring out how to render it in the other language, you’re repeating it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/u...T.nav=top-news

The real issue is that even in a private meeting or phone call, there is customarily a notetaker documenting the conversation. What is Trump's protection that Putin couldn't make a false claim? Maybe Trump feels that any lie Putin tells couldn't be as damaging as the recorded truth.
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Old 20th July 2018, 09:50 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Long-time State Dept. employee. But, interestingly, some translators say that they concentrate so much on translating the words at the moment that have limited memory of the conversation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/u...T.nav=top-news

The real issue is that even in a private meeting or phone call, there is customarily a notetaker documenting the conversation. What is Trump's protection that Putin couldn't make a false claim? Maybe Trump feels that any lie Putin tells couldn't be as damaging as the recorded truth.
I can actually get on board with that. Unless something so outrageous was said that it struck home, you do tend to concentrate on the job at hand.
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Old 20th July 2018, 11:31 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

This would surprise me nearly as much as the sun rising in the morning.
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Old 20th July 2018, 11:33 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I hope that the US recorded it too. Were President Trump and the translator patted down and/or searched electronically for devices ? Even if there was no way to transmit our of the room, I hope one of them was wearing a recording device.

If Trump's sugardaddy Putin told him not to bring any recording devices, Trump wouldn't have the guts to try and sneak something in.

Putin, OTOH, would.
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Old 20th July 2018, 03:00 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Assumes facts not in evidence. Who picked Trump's translator?
Personal recommendation from Putin...
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Old 20th July 2018, 05:52 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think that perhaps an interesting question is why Putin allowed a US translator to be there, if anything compromising was said. Putin speaks English - allegedly well enough to correct translators. So it doesn't seem that one was actually needed in order to communicate.
it's not exacty a new gimmick. Charles De Gaulle spoke English quite fluently but still preferred to use a translator on most occasions because he felt it gave him a psychological advantage.
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Old 21st July 2018, 01:53 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
it's not exacty a new gimmick. Charles De Gaulle spoke English quite fluently but still preferred to use a translator on most occasions because he felt it gave him a psychological advantage.
That I get. The question is why a US translator, rather than a Russian translator.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:47 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That I get. The question is why a US translator, rather than a Russian translator.

They both had their own translators. You may recall a kerfuffle when Trump met Putin at a conference with only a Russian translator, no Americans present at all. At least he didn't make that mistake this time.
Quote:
Gross, a translator for the State Department, can be seen sitting near Trump in images of the Helsinki, Finland meeting. Putin also had an interpreter at the meeting.
http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-...meeting-2018-7
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Old 22nd July 2018, 02:43 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
They both had their own translators.
My understanding is the interpreters translate into their own language only. So it's the Russian interpreter who has to make sense of what Trump is saying.
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Old 22nd July 2018, 02:55 AM   #222
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Well... it's looking more and more like the Trump campaign did indeed capitalize on stolen information given to them by the Russians.
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Old 22nd July 2018, 03:01 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
My understanding is the interpreters translate into their own language only. So it's the Russian interpreter who has to make sense of what Trump is saying.
What a job to have!
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Old 22nd July 2018, 03:12 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What a job to have!
I can translate "Yes Mr Putin", to "Da"
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Old 22nd July 2018, 05:23 AM   #225
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White House considering removing sanctions from Russian aluminium company in which Oleg Deripaska - one of the 23 Russians indicted in Mueller's first round of indictments - is the major shareholder
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Old 22nd July 2018, 05:42 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Nitpick: Deripaska hasn't been indicted in Mueller's investigation (yet?).
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Old 22nd July 2018, 07:19 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Nitpick: Deripaska hasn't been indicted in Mueller's investigation (yet?).
You're right. I'm not quite sure where I got that from. Thank you for the correction.
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Old 22nd July 2018, 08:14 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If Trump's sugardaddy Putin told him not to bring any recording devices, Trump wouldn't have the guts to try and sneak something in.

Putin, OTOH, would.
I have to wonder, what's the protocol for body-searching heads of state? It would seem a diplomatic faux pas if one side insisted on even an electronic search of the other. Do they wear earpieces at these things?
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Old 22nd July 2018, 08:38 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I have to wonder, what's the protocol for body-searching heads of state? It would seem a diplomatic faux pas if one side insisted on even an electronic search of the other. Do they wear earpieces at these things?
But isn't it protocol for heads of criminal gangs?
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Old 22nd July 2018, 09:22 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
But isn't it protocol for heads of criminal gangs?
Putin is the head of a gang, Benedict Donald is an underling. Only the untermensch is checked for a wire.
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Old 24th July 2018, 02:42 AM   #231
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https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/...71179138764801

Quote:
NEW: Russian hackers have penetrated U.S. electric utilities and are positioning themselves for an attack, reports @SmithRebecca https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian...say-1532388110 … via @WSJ
Let's see what the official response to this is. Since the President of Iran telling the US not to threaten Iran caused an all-caps declaration of war from Trump, an actual act of war from a hostile foreign power is bound to get a more forceful response, isn't it?
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Old 24th July 2018, 06:22 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
My understanding is the interpreters translate into their own language only. So it's the Russian interpreter who has to make sense of what Trump is saying.
Your understanding is correct. As a rule, you only translate into your native tongue, not any other.

That said, at need, one could translate from mother tongue to another language, but that is regarded as unprofessional. To be avoided unless there are no other options, or acceptable in casual conversation.

How do I know this? My sister is 30 years a professional translator. She collects translation clangers for laughs. The problem is always idioms that are normal to every language. For an apropos example, the simple english phrase "out of sight, out of mind" was translate from english to russian and then from russian back to english. The result was the phrase "invisible lunatic". While that has a certain strange logic to it, clearly the idiom has literally been lost in translation.

And don't ask for a reference. That one dates back to the '90s so no hope of that.
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Old 24th July 2018, 11:54 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Your understanding is correct. As a rule, you only translate into your native tongue, not any other.

That said, at need, one could translate from mother tongue to another language, but that is regarded as unprofessional. To be avoided unless there are no other options, or acceptable in casual conversation.

How do I know this? My sister is 30 years a professional translator. She collects translation clangers for laughs. The problem is always idioms that are normal to every language. For an apropos example, the simple english phrase "out of sight, out of mind" was translate from english to russian and then from russian back to english. The result was the phrase "invisible lunatic". While that has a certain strange logic to it, clearly the idiom has literally been lost in translation.



And don't ask for a reference. That one dates back to the '90s so no hope of that.

That may be an urban legend. Here's the same story, except the language is Japanese.
https://talesfromthemindofkristian.w...re-than-words/

In a case where both sides have translators, the translators themselves will consult each other about slang and idioms. Even British and American English have some disparities. A Russian translator trained in British English might not grasp Trumpisms without some help from the American.
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Old 24th July 2018, 12:39 PM   #234
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Quote:
Iím very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely donít want Trump!
(tweet)

Does anyone actually buy into this?
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Old 24th July 2018, 12:53 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
(tweet)

Does anyone actually buy into this?
Needless to say(?) the hardcore deplorables will buy anything he says.
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Old 24th July 2018, 01:20 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
(tweet)

Does anyone actually buy into this?
If the Dems succeed in taking back either or both houses of Congress, he can say it was because of Russian meddling. Of course, their meddling didn't help him in 2016...

His base supporters believe everything he says. Those with an IQ slightly higher know he lies. They just don't care because he going to "MAGA".
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Old 24th July 2018, 01:32 PM   #237
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Let's not dismiss this scenario too easily.

Russian intelligence may very well work to carry this out, if only to muddy the waters even more. Putin always has a bag of tricks he's used for decades, and Americans keep falling for it because for most people, every action is relatively cut and dried, with no deeper method. A lot of Trump's opponents' collusion jokes for instance; Trump meeting his handler or his boss, "collusion in plain sight", may not be so plain.
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Old 24th July 2018, 01:38 PM   #238
Upchurch
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Let's not dismiss this scenario too easily.
On the other hand, Trump was making similar claims before the last election.
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Old 24th July 2018, 01:57 PM   #239
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
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Does anyone actually buy into this?
Hmm...let's see. Who is asking to protect the Russia investigation and calling for Trump to come clean on his private meeting with Putin and who is acting like a Russian whore? Gee it's a toughy.
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Old 24th July 2018, 02:03 PM   #240
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
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Does anyone actually buy into this?
This is him directly asking Russia to start interfering more actively.
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