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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 18th August 2018, 03:28 PM   #161
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think he's great too. But he stopped writing new music probably 30 years ago. But I can't really bitch since I haven't written any...ever.
Yes, but his classical work has been good (what I've heard) and I suspect he didn't want to fall into the caricature of the middle aged millionaire rockstar writing about being a poor (or angry) young man. I' d have liked an album or two more as well but...

eta: And you can always listen to the "Atilla" album!
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Old 18th August 2018, 03:34 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I'm thinking Sardaukar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardaukar

Gold trim, classy.
"Mar-a-Largo? No one visits the Emperor's Prison Golf course. It is a hell golf course from which no man is said to return"
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Old 18th August 2018, 06:42 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
This just in! Glorious Supreme Leader Trump, May He Reign Forever, has figured out what's causing all these wildfires!


It's that damn expensive Canadian Lumber!

I thought this was going to be a spoof of some sort.

I really hoped it would be.

I should have known better. It has reached the point where no one can even imagine a spoof more stupid than the crap Trump does casually every day.
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:17 AM   #164
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Speaking of convincing the rubes, the following is from an New York Times article about the role Don McGahn, White House counsel, has played in the Mueller investigation:
Quote:
In the following weeks [since Mueller was appointed], Mr. Trump assembled a personal legal team to defend him. He wanted to take on Mr. Mueller directly, attacking his credibility and impeding investigators. But two of his newly hired lawyers, John M. Dowd and Ty Cobb, have said they took Mr. Trump at his word that he did nothing wrong and sold him on an open-book strategy. As long as Mr. Trump and the White House cooperated with Mr. Mueller, they told him, they could bring an end to the investigation within months.
Wow. Even a couple of high-priced sharks got bamboozled.

According to the article McGahn has spent 30 HOURS testifying for the investigation. Since he says he represents the Presidency, not the President, he could well be a key player who brings down Dump.
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Old 19th August 2018, 04:16 AM   #165
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It's very likely that the first thing Trump says to his lawyers is:"I've done nothing wrong."
At this point, it is wise for a lawyer not to investigate the truth of this statement, as they don't want to get into a situation where they would have to admit that their client is lying.
That is why lawyers hate clients like Trump who can't follow instructions and stay quiet or at least ambiguous.
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:15 AM   #166
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It can happen here. It is happening here.

Regarding Guiliani's recent "truth isn't truth" remark:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._truth/e4gsqph

Quote:
The gaslighting of America continues.

These absurd, self-incriminating, and contradictory statements aren't Giuliani making the same mistake over and over again. Imbuing the target audience with an expectation of deception and creating an environment of confusion is a central facet of authoritarian propaganda.

Hannah Arendt identified the same thing in the nazi movement almost 70 years ago in her book, The Origins of Totalitarianism:

Quote:
“In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. ... Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”

That's why right-wing media and leadership go to such efforts to project corruption and deception onto Democrats and the institutional press. They need an environment where there's no expectation of virtue by any actors so they suffer no disadvantage for their obvious lies and criminal behavior.

"The biased liberal mainstream media" is repeated dozens of times everyday no matter what conservative source you're consuming. It's so central to right-wing messaging and it's no different than the gaslighting Giuliani, Trump, or Putin engage in; it's all a strategy to create an environment where truth and virtue are negated.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 19th August 2018 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:22 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
It can happen here. It is happening here.

Regarding Guiliani's recent "truth isn't truth" remark:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._truth/e4gsqph
The President is aided and abetted by Republicans who refuse to hold him accountable. The highest value in ones job can never be to keep your job. The highest task for a Congressperson is to help the country and defend democracy, and failure to do so, putting your job and party above that, is the worst.

We have to do everything we can to at least take back the House this Nov. Give as much money as you can to any Democrat who has a chance of winning a seat.
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:33 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
It can happen here. It is happening here.

Regarding Guiliani's recent "truth isn't truth" remark:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._truth/e4gsqph

While I sincerely hope that we have enough of a functioning democracy left to prevent it, and even if we can, the only thing I'm really sure of is that this cannot end well. This is worlds in collision stuff.
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:40 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
....
We have to do everything we can to at least take back the House this Nov. Give as much money as you can to any Democrat who has a chance of winning a seat.
Question: Would Democrats in contested districts generally be better advised to take the confrontational position that "A vote for the Republican is a vote for Trump!," or a more conciliatory "I will work with Trump whenever I can to protect and promote your interests."
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Old 19th August 2018, 12:41 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
It can happen here. It is happening here.

Regarding Guiliani's recent "truth isn't truth" remark:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._truth/e4gsqph
Excellent. Thanks for posting this. It's terrifying but true.
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:03 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Would Democrats in contested districts generally be better advised to take the confrontational position that "A vote for the Republican is a vote for Trump!," or a more conciliatory "I will work with Trump whenever I can to protect and promote your interests."
I have no idea, and I suspect it might be different depending on which contested district is in question. Districts can be contested with different underlying situations. The Democratic candidate might have particulars in his/her situation that could lean things one way or the other.

Fortunately, no one is in any danger of taking my advice on this question.
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:17 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
I have no idea, and I suspect it might be different depending on which contested district is in question. Districts can be contested with different underlying situations. The Democratic candidate might have particulars in his/her situation that could lean things one way or the other.

Fortunately, no one is in any danger of taking my advice on this question.

The one thing Democrats must not do is take advice from Republicans. Yeah, I know; then how are we gonna change their minds? Well, we aren't likely to do that, whether we attack Trump or push a progressive agenda or compromise on just some issue. It's all or nothing with these guys. This election, like always, will be about turnout, so you're right; Democrats need to figure out what that takes on a case-by-case basis, depending on local politics.
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:18 PM   #173
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I think the ""A vote for the Republican is a vote for Trump!" likely would be the wrong way to go. Anyone who hates Trump already is probably not going to vote GOP anyway because they know he needs to be checked by the House. It's the Indies who need to be swayed to vote Dem for the same reason.
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:45 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
It can happen here. It is happening here.

Regarding Guiliani's recent "truth isn't truth" remark:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co..._truth/e4gsqph

Did anyone ask him what his definition of "is" is?
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:52 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
We have to do everything we can to at least take back the House this Nov. Give as much money as you can to any Democrat who has a chance of winning a seat.
I'm not sure money is the critical aspect; motivation is. The blanket motivation is to restore checks and balances. There has to be a lot of education happening and although money can help get the message out it's not necessary the deciding factor, depending on the race.
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Old 19th August 2018, 01:55 PM   #176
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CNN and MSNBC were frank—this is Hitlerish this morning. They included Fox News in the blame, said there is no Republican Party left and they hoped someone in the GOP would get a grip on how dangerous Trump is and do their 25th Amendment job.

They weren't holding anything back.
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Old 19th August 2018, 03:26 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I'm not sure money is the critical aspect; motivation is. The blanket motivation is to restore checks and balances. There has to be a lot of education happening and although money can help get the message out it's not necessary the deciding factor, depending on the race.
If I understand you correctly, I agree with you - I'm not sure money is the critical aspect, but I don't see much else that a regular citizen can do, who already sees the danger, to help forestall the danger. I suppose I'd add in election organizing (phone banks, get out the vote work, etc.) to donating money.
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Old 19th August 2018, 03:32 PM   #178
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Our President could not continue to act as he does without support from Republicans in Congress, and Repubs in Congress could not continue to take no action without support from their voters, especially the Republican base.

So this Presidency has exposed - and exploited - a horrible strain of the American citizenry - the base - and that strain is NOT going away anytime soon, and that is the foundation of the problem. We're going to be dealing with this for quite some time, regardless of what happens to the current President.

And how can we fix this? How can we change people's minds to understand how to properly view the press in a democracy? How can we change people's minds so that they don't accept what the Great Leader says in defiance of reality?

Taking back the House in November is child's play comparatively.
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Old 19th August 2018, 03:39 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I think the ""A vote for the Republican is a vote for Trump!" likely would be the wrong way to go. Anyone who hates Trump already is probably not going to vote GOP anyway because they know he needs to be checked by the House. It's the Indies who need to be swayed to vote Dem for the same reason.
The way things are going, Democrats might not really need to do much at all.

But they will. Oh, yeah.
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Old 19th August 2018, 03:53 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
While I sincerely hope that we have enough of a functioning democracy left to prevent it, and even if we can, the only thing I'm really sure of is that this cannot end well. This is worlds in collision stuff.

I keep thinking about how a building collapses. Sometimes, you see that a structural member is failing, and if you act expeditiously, and correctly, you can replace or shore up that member, and save the building.

But sometimes the damage is too severe, or you catch it too late, and all you can do is stand back and let it collapse, and try to rebuild afterwards.

I often wonder if we'll be able to distinguish these options when it comes to the collapse of society. The Germans in the 1930s weren't able to, as a collective.

How badly will Trump et al. have to fail, to get his supporters to actually stop and say, "Man, we really screwed that up, didn't we?"
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Old 19th August 2018, 04:47 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I keep thinking about how a building collapses. Sometimes, you see that a structural member is failing, and if you act expeditiously, and correctly, you can replace or shore up that member, and save the building.

But sometimes the damage is too severe, or you catch it too late, and all you can do is stand back and let it collapse, and try to rebuild afterwards.

I often wonder if we'll be able to distinguish these options when it comes to the collapse of society. The Germans in the 1930s weren't able to, as a collective.

How badly will Trump et al. have to fail, to get his supporters to actually stop and say, "Man, we really screwed that up, didn't we?"
You'd be surprised at how much support there still was for Hitler even after the war. My great-uncle, a German born naturalized citizen, went back to Germany in 1957 for a visit with his family. He was appalled to find that his brother was still a Nazi at heart and refused to have anything more to do with him.
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Old 19th August 2018, 04:56 PM   #182
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The Republican establishment is as bad at assessing their ability to control demagogues as the German military and industrialist class in the 30s. Mitch McConnel just sees a rubber stamp on conservative judges and Ryan sees a dripping wet pen ready to sign a give away tax bill. In the end, you're still left with a Russian whore with bills to pay to his masters. Both Ryan and McConnel probably thought they could keep the political novice in check. The results were, based on history not unpredictable.
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Old 19th August 2018, 05:26 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Would Democrats in contested districts generally be better advised to take the confrontational position that "A vote for the Republican is a vote for Trump!," or a more conciliatory "I will work with Trump whenever I can to protect and promote your interests."
No contest : you can't work with a twitter-fiend.

"A vote against a Republican is a vote against Trump, and your best chance of causing him pain". I'd start from there.
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Old 19th August 2018, 06:39 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
No contest : you can't work with a twitter-fiend.

"A vote against a Republican is a vote against Trump, and your best chance of causing him pain". I'd start from there.
Even this will often depend on local polling. For example, this recent poll (the first PDF) found that an outright majority of black Americans agree with the statement "Trump is a racist who intends to harm black people". This is pretty powerful if you're running in a majority black district. Joe Manchin, however, likely won't get nearly as far on this issue.
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Old 19th August 2018, 06:50 PM   #185
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Is it merely coincidence or can we tell the man by the company he keeps? Manafort is on trial for tax evasion and bank fraud. It appears that New York State is prepared to charge Michael Cohen fo numerous counts of Bank Fraud adding up to 20 million dollars.
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Old 19th August 2018, 07:15 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
... In the end, you're still left with a Russian whore with bills to pay to his masters. Both Ryan and McConnel probably thought they could keep the political novice in check. The results were, based on history not unpredictable.
And almost certainly McConnell and Ryan cannot admit, even to themselves, what a mistake they made.

No doubt they rationalize it daily assuring themselves Clinton would have been worse even though there is no way that is even close to being true.

A lot of people on the right bought into the fear mongering, convinced with the lies that everyone on the left is just waiting to turn the county into a communist version of economics, oblivious to the irony of Putin helping Trump get elected.
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Old 19th August 2018, 07:20 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Even this will often depend on local polling. For example, this recent poll (the first PDF) found that an outright majority of black Americans agree with the statement "Trump is a racist who intends to harm black people". This is pretty powerful if you're running in a majority black district. Joe Manchin, however, likely won't get nearly as far on this issue.
If you're going to lose a majority black district to a Republican you'd better have a damn' good excuse worked out. I'm thinking of an over-arching message that evey vote against a Republican makes the baby Trump cry, which can be wroked up with local concerns and reasons to want him to suffer.

I can't see the strategy losing votes. Worst case is it doesn't gain many.
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Old 19th August 2018, 07:21 PM   #188
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"Do you know the difference between a crisis and a catastrophe? A crisis is if Donald Trump falls into the Potomac River and canít swim. A catastrophe is if anybody saves his ass."
-- Rep. Alcee Hastings, D-Fla (Aug 19, 2018)


Rumor has it, Maxine Waters is writing the material for his stand-up routine.
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Old 20th August 2018, 12:56 AM   #189
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I think that is damned funny.
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Old 20th August 2018, 01:02 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
If I understand you correctly, I agree with you - I'm not sure money is the critical aspect, but I don't see much else that a regular citizen can do, who already sees the danger, to help forestall the danger. I suppose I'd add in election organizing (phone banks, get out the vote work, etc.) to donating money.
Yes, that is what I was referring to. It gets people engaged. I have a theory, that if I'm tasked with working a certain neighborhood to get out the vote, my commitment is greater than writing a check, and might result in more neighborhood engagement as well.

It's just a hunch; I could be wrong.

ETA: Offering rides to the polls, making sure people had proper ID and were encouraged to vote early, etc.

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Old 20th August 2018, 02:51 AM   #191
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Here's the transcript of Trump's remarks at a New York fundraiser last week about coal and windmills.


"You remember Hilary with the coal, right? Sitting with the miners at the table? Remember?
That wasn’t so good for her.
So the people of West Virginia and all over, you look at Wyoming, you look at so many different places where they just Pennsylvania, where they loved we what did, and it’s clean coal and we have the most modern procedures.
But it’s a tremendous form of energy in the sense that in a military way - think of it - coal is indestructible.

You can blow up a pipeline, you can blow up windmills. You know, the windmills, boom, boom, boom, bing, that’s the end of that one.
If birds don’t kill it first, the birds could kill it first. They kill so many birds. You look underneath one of those windmills, it’s like a killing field, the birds.
But you know, that’s what they were going to do, they were going to windmills.
And you know, don’t worry about when the wind doesn’t blow - I said,”What happens when the wind doesn’t blow? Well, then we have a problem”
OK, Good. They were putting them in areas where they didn’t have much wind too. And it’s a subsidary - you need subsidy for windmills, you need subsidy.
Who wants to have energy where you need subsidy? So, the coal is doing great."

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Old 20th August 2018, 02:56 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here's the transcript of Trump's remarks at a New York fundraiser last week about coal and windmills.


"You remember Hilary with the coal, right? Sitting with the miners at the table? Remember?
That wasnít so good for her. So the people of West Virginia and all over, you look at Wyoming, you look at so many different places where they just. Pennsylvania, where they loved what did, and itís clean coal and we have the most modern procedures.
But itís tremendous form of energy in the sense that in a military way - think of it - call is indestructible.

You can blow up a pipeline, you can blow up windmills. You know, the windmills, boom, boom, boom, bing, thatís the end of that one.
If birds donít kill it first, the birds could kill it first. They kill so many birds. You look underneath one of those windmills, itís like a killing field, the birds.
But you know, thatís what they were going to do, they were going to windmills.
And you know, donít worry about when the wind doesnít blow - I said,ĒWhat happens when the wind doesnít blow? Well, then we have a problemĒ
OK, Good. They were putting them in areas where they didnít have much wind too. And itís a subsidary - you need subsidy for windmills, you need subsidy.
Who wants to have energy where you need subsidy? So, the coal is doing great."
Yep, you can't argue with that.
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Old 20th August 2018, 02:56 AM   #193
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here's the transcript of Trump's remarks at a New York fundraiser last week about coal and windmills.


"You remember Hilary with the coal, right? Sitting with the miners at the table? Remember?
That wasnít so good for her. So the people of West Virginia and all over, you look at Wyoming, you look at so many different places where they just. Pennsylvania, where they loved what did, and itís clean coal and we have the most modern procedures.
But itís tremendous form of energy in the sense that in a military way - think of it - call is indestructible.

You can blow up a pipeline, you can blow up windmills. You know, the windmills, boom, boom, boom, bing, thatís the end of that one.
If birds donít kill it first, the birds could kill it first. They kill so many birds. You look underneath one of those windmills, itís like a killing field, the birds.
But you know, thatís what they were going to do, they were going to windmills.
And you know, donít worry about when the wind doesnít blow - I said,ĒWhat happens when the wind doesnít blow? Well, then we have a problemĒ
OK, Good. They were putting them in areas where they didnít have much wind too. And itís a subsidary - you need subsidy for windmills, you need subsidy.
Who wants to have energy where you need subsidy? So, the coal is doing great."
Did Ivanka forget to give him his meds?
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Old 20th August 2018, 03:44 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Yep, you can't argue with that.
Argue? Hell, you can't even parse it.
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Old 20th August 2018, 03:54 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here's the transcript of Trump's remarks at a New York fundraiser last week about coal and windmills.


"You remember Hilary with the coal, right? Sitting with the miners at the table? Remember?
That wasnít so good for her.
So the people of West Virginia and all over, you look at Wyoming, you look at so many different places where they just Pennsylvania, where they loved we what did, and itís clean coal and we have the most modern procedures.
But itís a tremendous form of energy in the sense that in a military way - think of it - coal is indestructible.

You can blow up a pipeline, you can blow up windmills. You know, the windmills, boom, boom, boom, bing, thatís the end of that one.
If birds donít kill it first, the birds could kill it first. They kill so many birds. You look underneath one of those windmills, itís like a killing field, the birds.
But you know, thatís what they were going to do, they were going to windmills.
And you know, donít worry about when the wind doesnít blow - I said,ĒWhat happens when the wind doesnít blow? Well, then we have a problemĒ
OK, Good. They were putting them in areas where they didnít have much wind too. And itís a subsidary - you need subsidy for windmills, you need subsidy.
Who wants to have energy where you need subsidy? So, the coal is doing great."
I need everybody to put this in perspective. Picture the person saying this in a turquoise tutu with a pink feather boa and a pair of tighty whities on his head.

(Reads much better that way. Ruthie the Duck Girl made more sense.)

Anyone else getting giggles imagining MIGs taking out thirty or forty thousand individual wind mills, each knocking out a half-mile square of the power grid in Cheyenne vs, say, four directed attacks taking out four massive coal-fired plants and cutting off the power for the entire eastern seaboard.
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Old 20th August 2018, 04:34 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Yep, you can't argue with that.

Sarah Palin is wondering why she didn't run for President after all.
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Old 20th August 2018, 04:40 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I need everybody to put this in perspective. Picture the person saying this in a turquoise tutu with a pink feather boa and a pair of tighty whities on his head.

(Reads much better that way. Ruthie the Duck Girl made more sense.)

Anyone else getting giggles imagining MIGs taking out thirty or forty thousand individual wind mills, each knocking out a half-mile square of the power grid in Cheyenne vs, say, four directed attacks taking out four massive coal-fired plants and cutting off the power for the entire eastern seaboard.

It's been pointed out that his speech sounds slightly more parsible than the transcriptions, more like normal speech -- at least when you're talking to people who frequently shift thoughts in the middle of a sentence. You naturally try to glean some meaning from where he seemed to be going, and then try to catch up. But that doesn't leave time to actually think much about where he seemed to be going. You don't expect to have to do that in written text, and when it's written, you can see how utterly chaotic and idiotic it really is, and start to suspect that he changed directions when he realized that himself. But he delivers it with total confidence and finishes up by acting like he just said something profound. If you didn't get it, maybe you didn't keep up, or maybe you'll just forgive him for not expressing his profound ideas clearly. Apparently, it fools a lot of people.

Last edited by WilliamSeger; 20th August 2018 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 20th August 2018, 04:48 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post

(Reads much better that way. Ruthie the Duck Girl made more sense.)
Dr. Brommer made more sense!
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Old 20th August 2018, 05:29 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Stories all over the place that Trump wanted Omorosa arrested, but Sessions refused because Omorosa has broken no federal law.
If Trump now thinks he should have the right to have people arrested on his whim, then his delusions are worse then we thought...if that is possible.
Strictly speaking he might, detain her as an enemy combatant and send her to Gitmo. The courts were not hugely for limiting the administrations powers to do that. See the court cases around the "dirty bomber"
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Old 20th August 2018, 05:46 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Strictly speaking he might, detain her as an enemy combatant and send her to Gitmo. The courts were not hugely for limiting the administrations powers to do that. See the court cases around the "dirty bomber"

From the ground up, our government was not designed for a person like Trump. I've said before that Trump's superpower is that he has no fear of consequences, so I'm extremely concerned about what he might do.
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