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Old 31st August 2018, 01:16 PM   #41
Elagabalus
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Dear special snowflake IT personnel,

we couldn't do IT* without you! Big THANX from all of us.

Now get back to work.




*see what we did there?

And just a reminder. Please don't "Vent" during regular business hours.
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Old 31st August 2018, 02:03 PM   #42
CORed
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Oh, god.

And then the dozen or so "reply all"s back to the guy to tell him he replied all, and the cycle never ends, until the entire universe collapses into the black hole of stupid created by nonsense emails multiplying at frightful rates to infinity.

*shudder*

Users give me nightmares.
If hell existed, there would be a special place in hell for people who "reply all" to tell somebody else not to "reply all".
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Old 31st August 2018, 02:10 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
If hell existed, there would be a special place in hell for people who "reply all" to tell somebody else not to "reply all".
We spent hours crafting the perfect "responses" during these reply all storms.

The problem was that our bosses knew that we knew better, so we had to find older staff and feed them the lines:

--> I'm forwarding this to IT so that they can address it.

--> I've put in a ticket to get this solved.

--> Is this related to Doofenshmirtz matter?

--> What is the billing code for this?

--> What priority is this matter?

--> All non-client communication should be clearly marked.

--> [other BS about company specific email rules]

--> [correcting minor grammar or spelling errors in ANY responses]
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Last edited by Dr. Keith; 31st August 2018 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 1st September 2018, 09:24 AM   #44
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I get it. Many customers are stupid and/or have unrealistic expectations of the support guy. This is true in every profession.

What I don't get is why everybody is bitching about this fact of life. Such customers are your bread and butter jobs. Simple cases that are easy to fix and highly profitable.

In many cases it is not entirely the customer's fault. It can be hard to know who to turn to when you need help. The guy who hangs up an "expert" shingle is often anything but. And every body knows somebody who is an "absolute genius at this". Like all BSAs, the "genius" will confidently tell you that "X" will solve all your problems. Invariably it turns out that "X"="BS".
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Old 1st September 2018, 09:44 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I get it. Many customers are stupid and/or have unrealistic expectations of the support guy. This is true in every profession.

What I don't get is why everybody is bitching about this fact of life. Such customers are your bread and butter jobs. Simple cases that are easy to fix and highly profitable.

In many cases it is not entirely the customer's fault. It can be hard to know who to turn to when you need help. The guy who hangs up an "expert" shingle is often anything but. And every body knows somebody who is an "absolute genius at this". Like all BSAs, the "genius" will confidently tell you that "X" will solve all your problems. Invariably it turns out that "X"="BS".
Because it's not that people don't know (and for many office jobs you should know anyway) it's the coquettish giggles and "I'm not very goods witrh computers" that imply that "I have no intention of learning how to use one the tools of my job".
It's the "I don't want to press anything because I don't want to break it" or the false equivilance of "I use a gajillion social media platforms, therefore I'm good with technology!". IT people aren't asking that you be able to build your computer from scratch and recompile the kernel for the custom *nix install but we'd at least like you to not get aggressive when we ask you check a cable or dread introducing the "Right Click" into a curative procedure...
(Because, for the rest of the call every time you say "Click X" you'll always get asked "Is that a Right Click?")
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Old 1st September 2018, 09:46 AM   #46
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I fully understand the need to vent, but just to state the obvious: IT support (and much of code writing in general) means you are in type of customer service. The same is true of teaching (one aspect of my own job). Being in customer service means that you will frequently be dealing with stupid, outrageous, ignorant, and/or nasty requests and demands.

Sure many of your customers are totally ignorant as to how computers work and are terribly intimidated by them. But that is why your company hired you: to patiently help them deal with their fears as well as provide the technical knowledge they lack. Sure some customers will make absurd demands. Okay, that too is why your company hired you: to convert these absurd demands into reasonable responses that keep the business of the company going.

Part of customer service, part of getting paid to do it, is to deal with even stupid and unreasonable customers as politely as possible while still getting the actual job done right and preserving your own integrity and sanity. The same is true in selling expressos and in teaching college courses. Do some of my "customers" make me angry at times? Are some of their requests amazingly dumb or irritating? Absolutely. So I vent to my wife or friends. But once I calm down I can laugh. And cash my pay check. And the more professionally I've treated these requests the better I feel about myself.

Last edited by Giordano; 1st September 2018 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 1st September 2018, 10:14 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Because it's not that people don't know (and for many office jobs you should know anyway) it's the coquettish giggles and "I'm not very goods witrh computers" that imply that "I have no intention of learning how to use one the tools of my job".
It's the "I don't want to press anything because I don't want to break it" or the false equivilance of "I use a gajillion social media platforms, therefore I'm good with technology!". IT people aren't asking that you be able to build your computer from scratch and recompile the kernel for the custom *nix install but we'd at least like you to not get aggressive when we ask you check a cable or dread introducing the "Right Click" into a curative procedure...
(Because, for the rest of the call every time you say "Click X" you'll always get asked "Is that a Right Click?")
That doesn't really address a single thing that I have posted.

Regarding the highlighted part, I must admit that I find it annoying that I am often asked to repeat everything that I have just done before I called the tech support guy. I just have to take a deep breath and remember that most of their dealings are with people who lack the intelligence to run through the basics.
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Old 1st September 2018, 10:59 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
These people keep people in jobs.
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I fully understand the need to vent, but just to state the obvious: IT support (and much of code writing in general) means you are in type of customer service.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I get it. Many customers are stupid and/or have unrealistic expectations of the support guy. This is true in every profession.
What I don't get is why everybody is bitching about this fact of life. Such customers are your bread and butter jobs.
No. Just... no.

The number of people that think that showing Deborah in finance how to resize an Excel cell for the twelfth time and listen to her wave off any attempt to show her how to do it herself with a giggling "Oh I'm just not a computer person..." is not only my job but the entirety of my job is the one (and largely only) thing I hate about working in the IT field. Trust me I have more than enough responsibilities that have nothing to do with showing users how to perform tasks they should know how to perform on their own.

All other fields maintain both at least some demarcation between user support and user training (as in the people who fix your equipment and the people who show you how to use aren't the same person) and don't foster this weird, proud intentional ignorance of the primary tool of your job.

Imagine pulling your car into the mechanic.
Driver: My car is displaying this weird error message.
Mechanic: What does the error say?
Driver: I don't know, I'm not a car guy.
Mechanic: Errrrr okay... let me take a look. It's the low fuel warning, you're almost out of gas.
Driver: Oh that's all gibberish, just fix it for me.
Mechanic: There's nothing wrong your car, you just need to put some gas in it.
Driver: Can't you do it? Like I said I'm just not a car person.
Mechanic: It's easy. You just go to a gas station, open the fuel cap...
Driver: I'm not going to remember all those technical terms.
Mechanic: Well there's nothing broken or out of standards on your car. It just needs fuel.
Driver: So I'll just call you whenever this happens.
Mechanic: Well no that's not really my job...
Driver: Listen I depend on this car for work and I'm not a car guy. I'll be back next time it needs gas. Now if you'll excuse me I'll need to go put "Excellent Car Skills" on my resume and quarterly performance reviews.

That's exactly the level IT staff expected to operate at lest they be thought of as "unprofessional."

The guy behind the counter at Burger King isn't unprofessional because he won't chew your Whopper for you. You don't go back to your mechanic every time you need a turn signal turned on.

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
And just a reminder. Please don't "Vent" during regular business hours.
Three times a week minimum I have to listen to one of my users' long form rants about how the computer system that their leadership, not the IT dept, choose and purchase are "too slow." "Computer Unhappiness Whining Post" is part of my job description.
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Old 1st September 2018, 11:20 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Because it's not that people don't know (and for many office jobs you should know anyway) it's the coquettish giggles and "I'm not very goods witrh computers" that imply that "I have no intention of learning how to use one the tools of my job".[/size]
And at the end of the day that really is the core of it.

Everything else is either an annoyance I could put up with or the kind of thing that, yeah you are gonna have to put up with some equivalent of at any support type of job.

It's the easy, fearless way the customer base in this industry proudly declares that not only do they not know how to do a core part of their job and are expecting you to do it for you, they have not intention of ever changing or even hiding it that fact and that that is seen as completely normal.

Again when everyday the same person pulls into your mechanics shop asking you to turn on their headlights for them because "Oh I'm not a car person" we can talk about how this is the same "customer service" that all industries that provide support have to put up with.
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Old 1st September 2018, 12:45 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's the easy, fearless way the customer base in this industry proudly declares that not only do they not know how to do a core part of their job and are expecting you to do it for you, they have not intention of ever changing or even hiding it that fact and that that is seen as completely normal.
One job I had was writing "infrastructure" code for a major bank. We wrote code that acted as a layer between the application programmers and the operating system and associaed software (z/OS, CICS, MQ, DB/2 for those who care). An application programmer joined our team and one time me and him had a few beers and he vented about my teams attitude towards application programmers. I told him that we didn't see much of the ones he knew who could read manuals, work stuff out. Most of the ones we spent most time on were the IT equivalents of the monks who copied books they couldn't read.
Then one day he answered my phone and the senior application programmer (13 years in this specific environment.)asked for me. Dave asked if he could help. "I think it needs to be Rob. He told me that my program didn't work because I did a static link to his program instead of a dynamic link and I don't know what that means"
For those who care this is CS 101. A static link meant when he built his program a copy of my code was included in it. A dynamic link meant that it didn't and instead looked for my program in available libraries and thus could get the latest version.
Dave said "Oh that just means that when you buil...."
"No" he interrupted "I don't need to know what it means I just need to know how to do it"
"Just put the program name in quotes"
When I came back Dave was still in shock so I bought him a beer.
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Old 1st September 2018, 12:55 PM   #51
Giordano
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. Just... no.

The number of people that think that showing Deborah in finance how to resize an Excel cell for the twelfth time and listen to her wave off any attempt to show her how to do it herself with a giggling "Oh I'm just not a computer person..." is not only my job but the entirety of my job is the one (and largely only) thing I hate about working in the IT field. Trust me I have more than enough responsibilities that have nothing to do with showing users how to perform tasks they should know how to perform on their own.

All other fields maintain both at least some demarcation between user support and user training (as in the people who fix your equipment and the people who show you how to use aren't the same person) and don't foster this weird, proud intentional ignorance of the primary tool of your job.

Imagine pulling your car into the mechanic.
Driver: My car is displaying this weird error message.
Mechanic: What does the error say?
Driver: I don't know, I'm not a car guy.
Mechanic: Errrrr okay... let me take a look. It's the low fuel warning, you're almost out of gas.
Driver: Oh that's all gibberish, just fix it for me.
Mechanic: There's nothing wrong your car, you just need to put some gas in it.
Driver: Can't you do it? Like I said I'm just not a car person.
Mechanic: It's easy. You just go to a gas station, open the fuel cap...
Driver: I'm not going to remember all those technical terms.
Mechanic: Well there's nothing broken or out of standards on your car. It just needs fuel.
Driver: So I'll just call you whenever this happens.
Mechanic: Well no that's not really my job...
Driver: Listen I depend on this car for work and I'm not a car guy. I'll be back next time it needs gas. Now if you'll excuse me I'll need to go put "Excellent Car Skills" on my resume and quarterly performance reviews.

That's exactly the level IT staff expected to operate at lest they be thought of as "unprofessional."

The guy behind the counter at Burger King isn't unprofessional because he won't chew your Whopper for you. You don't go back to your mechanic every time you need a turn signal turned on.



Three times a week minimum I have to listen to one of my users' long form rants about how the computer system that their leadership, not the IT dept, choose and purchase are "too slow." "Computer Unhappiness Whining Post" is part of my job description.
I must tell you that your "grass is greener" view of customers in areas outside of IT is way too optimistic and that your auto repair scenario is much closer to reality than to satire. Try visiting the https://notalwaysright.com website for examples. Having to deal with incredibly stupid, rude, outrageous, insane people is an inherent part of customer interactions in all lines of work. I am not saying that all customers are this way, just that enough are that dealing with them is part of the job.
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Old 1st September 2018, 01:06 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I must tell you that your "grass is greener" view of customers in areas outside of IT is way too optimistic and that your auto repair scenario is much closer to reality than to satire. Try visiting the https://notalwaysright.com website for examples. Having to deal with incredibly stupid, rude, outrageous, insane people is an inherent part of customer interactions in all lines of work. I am not saying that all customers are this way, just that enough are that dealing with them is part of the job.
Yes but those stories end up on notalwaysright (a site I know well) because they are seen as anomalies not as something seen as socially acceptable.
Yet somehow the IT equivalent of a taxi driver saying "He's not a car person and can't be expected to apply the brakes without help" is seen as acceptable.
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Old 1st September 2018, 01:35 PM   #53
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The difference between a corporate IT department and a mechanic is... a mechanic can charge you more for each question you ask.
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Old 1st September 2018, 01:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I must tell you that your "grass is greener" view of customers in areas outside of IT is way too optimistic and that your auto repair scenario is much closer to reality than to satire. Try visiting the https://notalwaysright.com website for examples. Having to deal with incredibly stupid, rude, outrageous, insane people is an inherent part of customer interactions in all lines of work. I am not saying that all customers are this way, just that enough are that dealing with them is part of the job.
If a car mechanic came on this board with a story of a customer who asked them to fill their tank up and brushed off any suggestion that they learn to do it themselves I don't many people would be tripping over themselves to claim they were being "unprofessional" by not doing it or claiming that that particular type of customer was reason they had a job.

The idea that there are statistically significant numbers people going to their mechanics showing them how to drive is... not accurate. The equivalent is true for the IT world. A lot of people have bought into the mythology of "computers" being these arcane magical boxes they'll never understand yet the still think there is no issue with working in jobs that require their constant use so they (and others in their defense) see it as no issue to take a job where they expect support personnel to do a significant portion of their job for it.

Even in the wildest strawman arguments, to say nothing of anything even approaching reality, no traveling salesman is having his mechanic act as his chauffeur, driving him from point to point because "he's not a car guy" and never took the time to learn to drive so he sees it as perfectly normal and natural to just pawn that part of his job off on "the car guy."

But I've formatted more than my fair share of Excel documents and Power Point presentations for users who see it as my job as "the computer guy"

You said it yourself, in other industries customers proudly expecting you to do something far outside the scope of your duties via some vague categorization argument of "Oh I'm not an X guy..." is seen as stupid, rude, outrageous, insane... not the norm you're expected to deal with.
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Old 1st September 2018, 04:13 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Regarding the highlighted part, I must admit that I find it annoying that I am often asked to repeat everything that I have just done before I called the tech support guy. I just have to take a deep breath and remember that most of their dealings are with people who lack the intelligence to run through the basics.
If it's stuff like your ISP it's because the first point of contact is generally 'Flowchart Muppets', non technical people who can listen to your issue and invaribly pick the wrong keywords then vomit out the FAQs until your either get bored or they run out of searchable keywords.

If it's at work or a decent company saying "X happened, I've tried Y And Z with results A & B" will go a long way to bypassing the checklist. And frankly it's easy to forgot to do one of the simple things when you need to work and can't because "arrgghhh!! computer!!"
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Old 1st September 2018, 04:28 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Imagine pulling your car into the mechanic.
Driver: My car is displaying this weird error message.
Mechanic: CA-CHING!
ftfy.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 03:48 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
If it's stuff like your ISP it's because the first point of contact is generally 'Flowchart Muppets', non technical people who can listen to your issue
AKA the ITIL Service Desk. The theory is that IT people lack "soft skills" like not telling idiots to sod off when they ask how to turn their pc on. So you recruit people with soft skills and little to no IT knowledge but who can be taught. These people with soft skills then have scripts written for them by subject experts with experience.
That works for the first iteration. Then the script people get promoted and decide they know how to write the scripts - after all, aren't they always answering people's IT questions and solving problems? Then the whole system goes to hell. When I got bored in some of the problem investigation meetings with these people I'd play a little game and say the root cause was "a transient data anomaly" and see if I got asked about it. Not once.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 08:58 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
IT Condition 1: Everything is working, why do we even have you guys?
IT Condition 2: Something is broken, why are we even paying you guys?

That is also the reason why janitors are so grumpy!
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Old 2nd September 2018, 11:32 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
AKA the ITIL Service Desk. The theory is that IT people lack "soft skills" like not telling idiots to sod off when they ask how to turn their pc on. So you recruit people with soft skills and little to no IT knowledge but who can be taught. These people with soft skills then have scripts written for them by subject experts with experience.
That works for the first iteration. Then the script people get promoted and decide they know how to write the scripts - after all, aren't they always answering people's IT questions and solving problems? Then the whole system goes to hell. When I got bored in some of the problem investigation meetings with these people I'd play a little game and say the root cause was "a transient data anomaly" and see if I got asked about it. Not once.
I saw the transitioning to this, I used to work at the second worst UK PC manufacturer on the helpdesk when we were taught that the best thing to do is 'Fix the problem'. Near the end of life of the company they were transitioning to the 'soft skills and teach them the greasy bits' but all I saw of it was numerous nice ways to say "I have no idea how to fix your computer but try this so you'll go away".
It wasn't a good time to have a broken computer...
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Old 2nd September 2018, 09:37 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I fully understand the need to vent, but just to state the obvious: IT support (and much of code writing in general) means you are in type of customer service. The same is true of teaching (one aspect of my own job). Being in customer service means that you will frequently be dealing with stupid, outrageous, ignorant, and/or nasty requests and demands.

Sure many of your customers are totally ignorant as to how computers work and are terribly intimidated by them. But that is why your company hired you: to patiently help them deal with their fears as well as provide the technical knowledge they lack. Sure some customers will make absurd demands. Okay, that too is why your company hired you: to convert these absurd demands into reasonable responses that keep the business of the company going.

Part of customer service, part of getting paid to do it, is to deal with even stupid and unreasonable customers as politely as possible while still getting the actual job done right and preserving your own integrity and sanity. The same is true in selling expressos and in teaching college courses. Do some of my "customers" make me angry at times? Are some of their requests amazingly dumb or irritating? Absolutely. So I vent to my wife or friends. But once I calm down I can laugh. And cash my pay check. And the more professionally I've treated these requests the better I feel about myself.
100% this.

I am not a techie. I'm not a programmer, or a sysadmin, and I don't have a lot of networking knowledge. Cloud based systems are a mystery to me. But I am really good at one thing: Talking to a caller who has a serious problem and is very upset about it, and having them finish the conversation with the feeling that it was productive and useful, even when I have had to tell them something that they didn't want to hear.

I may not be good at a lot of things, but I am damn ******* good at doing that.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 09:39 PM   #61
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Also.

The Chronicles of George.

Havening.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 05:35 AM   #62
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People urgently asking advice from "an expert" (that's me) and then flat out dismissing your answer with "I don't believe you, I'm not going to try that". Gets me seriously worked up the few times it happens. And 99% of the time my answer will be correct.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 07:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by lauwersw View Post
People urgently asking advice from "an expert" (that's me) and then flat out dismissing your answer with "I don't believe you, I'm not going to try that". Gets me seriously worked up the few times it happens. And 99% of the time my answer will be correct.
Now, I'm not saying that most folk asking for an expert need an expert, but sometimes we do.

I have a static IP address and run my own email server. In the past couple years, some major email servers have been using reverse DNS to filter out emails from servers without a reverse DNS record. The first tier help line folk didn't know what that meant. I had to talk to an expert to discover the really ridiculous fact that my ISP would not provide a reverse ISP record for me, though it would take less than five minutes to do so. They own the IP address, so only they can do it.

On occasion, the front line people aren't competent to answer technical questions. Probably not the majority of times, but sometimes the callers need an expert.

Oh, and RCN sucks. At least they offer static IPs, but reverse DNS would be easy to support.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 08:43 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post

On occasion, the front line people aren't competent to answer technical questions. Probably not the majority of times, but sometimes the callers need an expert.
More than once I've been frustrated when I had to call the in-house IT support desk about problems with the email server. Since I worked on corporate email servers for more than a decade (writing and supporting them), at the point I needed to call the help desk I had already done reasonably advanced troubleshooting, and typically knew the problem was a setting on the server end. I would then have to battle my way past someone who wanted to start from scratch by doing a remote session on my PC, and somehow get a message to the person administering the corporate email server.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 12:09 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. Just... no.

The number of people that think that showing Deborah in finance how to resize an Excel cell for the twelfth time and listen to her wave off any attempt to show her how to do it herself with a giggling "Oh I'm just not a computer person..." is not only my job but the entirety of my job is the one (and largely only) thing I hate about working in the IT field. Trust me I have more than enough responsibilities that have nothing to do with showing users how to perform tasks they should know how to perform on their own.

All other fields maintain both at least some demarcation between user support and user training (as in the people who fix your equipment and the people who show you how to use aren't the same person) and don't foster this weird, proud intentional ignorance of the primary tool of your job.

Imagine pulling your car into the mechanic.
Driver: My car is displaying this weird error message.
Mechanic: What does the error say?
Driver: I don't know, I'm not a car guy.
Mechanic: Errrrr okay... let me take a look. It's the low fuel warning, you're almost out of gas.
Driver: Oh that's all gibberish, just fix it for me.
Mechanic: There's nothing wrong your car, you just need to put some gas in it.
Driver: Can't you do it? Like I said I'm just not a car person.
Mechanic: It's easy. You just go to a gas station, open the fuel cap...
Driver: I'm not going to remember all those technical terms.
Mechanic: Well there's nothing broken or out of standards on your car. It just needs fuel.
Driver: So I'll just call you whenever this happens.
Mechanic: Well no that's not really my job...
Driver: Listen I depend on this car for work and I'm not a car guy. I'll be back next time it needs gas. Now if you'll excuse me I'll need to go put "Excellent Car Skills" on my resume and quarterly performance reviews.

That's exactly the level IT staff expected to operate at lest they be thought of as "unprofessional."

The guy behind the counter at Burger King isn't unprofessional because he won't chew your Whopper for you. You don't go back to your mechanic every time you need a turn signal turned on.



Three times a week minimum I have to listen to one of my users' long form rants about how the computer system that their leadership, not the IT dept, choose and purchase are "too slow." "Computer Unhappiness Whining Post" is part of my job description.
I'm glad you are not one of my IT guys....
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:32 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I'm glad you are not one of my IT guys....
Why? Do you expect your IT guys to do your job for you because "but... but it's on the computer and I'm just not a computer person..."
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Old 4th September 2018, 08:39 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Why? Do you expect your IT guys to do your job for you because "but... but it's on the computer and I'm just not a computer person..."
He may assume that because his IT guys don't express their frustration to him, that they must not feel that frustration.
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Old 4th September 2018, 08:49 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Because it's not that people don't know (and for many office jobs you should know anyway) it's the coquettish giggles and "I'm not very goods witrh computers" that imply that "I have no intention of learning how to use one the tools of my job".
It's the "I don't want to press anything because I don't want to break it" or the false equivilance of "I use a gajillion social media platforms, therefore I'm good with technology!". IT people aren't asking that you be able to build your computer from scratch and recompile the kernel for the custom *nix install but we'd at least like you to not get aggressive when we ask you check a cable or dread introducing the "Right Click" into a curative procedure...
(Because, for the rest of the call every time you say "Click X" you'll always get asked "Is that a Right Click?")
It's worse for those in mobile phone shops, people demanding fixes for their phones from sales people. Screaming that "I need this for my business and email doesn't work any longer fix it", "All my baby pictures are on it but I've broken it - fix it" The direct comparison would be someone buying a car and then a year later coming back into the car dealership saying "I can't reverse the car you must fix it" or "I need it for my job but I don't want to learn to drive a car".

There is nothing cute or clever saying you don't want to learn.
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Old 4th September 2018, 12:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
There is nothing cute or clever saying you don't want to learn.
Especially when it's meant to be their job. It's like excusing a payroll manager who has to get help every month because "Maths does my head in, LOL!"
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Old 4th September 2018, 02:54 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Why? Do you expect your IT guys to do your job for you because "but... but it's on the computer and I'm just not a computer person..."
No, I expect them to make sure that the computers and systems work. That's their job.
If it gets too hard they can just sort it out remotely whilst us luddites sit back with a cup of coffee.
The use of the actual programmes is not their problem. For that we train staff in the systems they need to use.


Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He may assume that because his IT guys don't express their frustration to him, that they must not feel that frustration.
Anyone dealing with people outside their field of expertise (and often within it - many people are just idiots) has to deal with frustration. What makes IT people special?
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He may assume that because his IT guys don't express their frustration to him, that they must not feel that frustration.
IT guys who don't express their frustration to the customers are simply doing their job properly.

Yeah, we all get frustrated. And we answer calls with a smile in our voice and a "have a great day". Because that's what you do.

We've got one guy in our Tier 2 who always seems to be complaining, and he always sounds like it. I feel sorry for the customers who are forced to interact with him. It can't be a particularly pleasant experience.
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Old 4th September 2018, 06:47 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Anyone dealing with people outside their field of expertise (and often within it - many people are just idiots) has to deal with frustration. What makes IT people special?
The problem is when people whose job it is to use computers don't know how to use the computers that their job depends on.

Basic familiarity with Windows and Microsoft Office has been part of every government selection criteria for every government job since the early 90s. There's absolutely no excuse for someone in a government job to not know how to use copy and paste. I don't care how "computer literate" you think you aren't. It is part of your job to know about these things.

That's what's frustrating. And when someone asks us how our day's been, we say "Great!". This is why alternative outlets that allow us to vent our frustrations on someone who is not a customer are so useful.
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Old 4th September 2018, 09:11 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Also.

The Chronicles of George.

Havening.
Gawd, I remember that! Havening indeed.
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Old 5th September 2018, 01:25 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
The use of the actual programmes is not their problem. For that we train staff in the systems they need to use.
And isn't that exactly what he's complaining about? Those people asking for help with the "actual programs" because "they're not computer people"?
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Old 5th September 2018, 01:45 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
And isn't that exactly what he's complaining about? Those people asking for help with the "actual programs" because "they're not computer people"?
Yep. I think a lot of the frustration is caused because some of these folk act like not being able to do the rudimentary things is something to be proud of, a kind of reverse intellectual superiority. Whereas it is akin to being proud of being illiterate because other people should read things out aloud for you.
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:05 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yep. I think a lot of the frustration is caused because some of these folk act like not being able to do the rudimentary things is something to be proud of, a kind of reverse intellectual superiority. Whereas it is akin to being proud of being illiterate because other people should read things out aloud for you.
Like someone in the White House just now...
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Old 5th September 2018, 02:57 PM   #77
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Dear User
You little essay about how desperately you need something done, often because you did not follow directions, is not going to change your position in the work order line.
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Old 5th September 2018, 06:59 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yep. I think a lot of the frustration is caused because some of these folk act like not being able to do the rudimentary things is something to be proud of, a kind of reverse intellectual superiority. Whereas it is akin to being proud of being illiterate because other people should read things out aloud for you.
It's exactly like people who declare themselves "bad at maths" as though that's something to be proud of.
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Old 5th September 2018, 08:38 PM   #79
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One of the silliest jobs I had to do in "emergency" tech support (I supposed to be on call only when real tech support was down or extremely bust OR something they could JUST NOT handle) ...

... was translate between the end user and the regular tech desk, particularly for Asian customers ... Oh BTW I speak ZERO of ANY of the many Asian languages!

Apparently my experience working on a "Chinese Farm" part time for ten years was all it took to translate the tech needs requested.

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Old 5th September 2018, 09:24 PM   #80
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Our users' careful facades of cheerfulness as we enter the fifth week of ongoing application/NAS storage issues are starting to crack. Folks are getting understandably frustrated.
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