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Tags atheism , China incidents , China issues , christian persecution , gosateizm

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Old 11th September 2018, 05:02 PM   #121
dudalb
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nah, you need to think like a Messiah - WWJD

Just put them to the sword.



No problem there - someone thought up those very sensible policies.

From the atheist, religion-destroying regimes of Mao & Stalin, atheists think these things through. Religion is cancer and needs to be excised. Burn churches, kill priests, force conversion upon the faithful.

Who but an atheist would have perfected the suicide vest for warfare?

Good grief, you're typing like you haven't seen The Atheists' Guide to Violent Suppression of Religion yet? PM your address and I'll send you a copy. I thought christians knew about that.

It's a damned good read, although I'm a bit peeved that only two generations of christian should be killed, according to the book. I've been agitating for equality with the bible and seeking a change to at least three generations, as in Numbers 14:18.

I think it's pretty pathetic to allow christians to overshadow atheists in killing families.
Well,if need any more proof of trolldom...
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Old 11th September 2018, 05:12 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nah, ......
'k.
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Old 11th September 2018, 05:26 PM   #123
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When you can cite atheist literature that recommends rape, murder and slavery and praises those who practice those activities please let us know.
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:15 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
When you can cite atheist literature that recommends rape, murder and slavery and praises those who practice those activities please let us know.
You want that in Russian, Chinese or what? The League of the Militant Godless has some next level stuff and the Soviet and Chinese engaged in wholesale rape, murder and slavery within the last century, didn’t just write about it.

Say, any comments about the latest pogrom or just gonna make “clever” comments that don’t work out so well?
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:43 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You want that in Russian, Chinese or what? The League of the Militant Godless has some next level stuff and the Soviet and Chinese engaged in wholesale rape, murder and slavery within the last century, didn’t just write about it.

Say, any comments about the latest pogrom or just gonna make “clever” comments that don’t work out so well?
Is your point "atheists bad, religious good" or "all of them bad"? Did the Soviets and Chinese blame "God" for their acts?
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:48 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
Is your point "atheists bad, religious good" or "all of them bad"? Did the Soviets and Chinese blame "God" for their acts?
I was discussing the latest pogroms against religious people, this time in China.

The soviets and the Chinese attacked people and institutions that believe in God (and other religious folks as well!). Exactly what about these basic facts are you not following?
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:49 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
From the atheist, religion-destroying regimes of Mao & Stalin, atheists think these things through. Religion is cancer and needs to be excised. Burn churches, kill priests, force conversion upon the faithful.
Yes, indeed. That's what has been happening in Tibet over the last half century. This is from a BBC article from 1999:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/253345.stm
China announces "civilizing" atheism drive in Tibet

The Chinese Communist Party has launched a three-year drive to promote atheism in the Buddhist region of Tibet, saying it is the key to economic progress and a weapon against separatism as typified by the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama.

The move comes amid fresh foreign reports of religious persecution in the region, which was invaded by China in 1950...

"They pledged to... promptly draw up specific plans and measures for carrying out the propaganda drive in the next three years and to submit the plans and measures to the regional party committee's propaganda department before the end of January," it said.

"They also pledged to make protracted and relentless efforts to continuously enhance the quality of propaganda on atheism."
Another article, this time from Times of India, in January this year:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/62639270.cms
China’s Muslim Communists made to sign atheism pledges

BEIJING: China’s Communist Party is getting Muslim members of the party to sign documents pledging their commitment to atheism and renouncing religious leanings. The pledge-signing ceremonies “reflect their devotion to the pursuit of Marxist purity"...

This is among a series of moves by the party to counter the rising interest in spiritualism in a country which has an atheist constitution to which the ruling Communist Party is committed.
Just remember, people: like atheism, no atrocities have been done in the name of theism. "Theism" just means "belief in one or more gods". That's all!

Last edited by GDon; 11th September 2018 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:51 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well that is two votes for thinking "think that this is characteristic of atheism rather than an activity of the totalitarian government of China is even more appalling" is worse than interning a million Muslims and destroying churches and forced conversions.

I did not even think there would be one, but priorities, huh folks.

Although going full Godwin in response to an article about putting religious people in internment camps, also more than a bit of surprise.

The contention that forced conversions giving up a faith by a Officially Atheist country is not about Atheism is the single most absurd thing I have seen in a long while.
Right, because when your argument has been so thoroughly discredited, the only thing left is to fixate on the most irrelevant detail.
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Old 11th September 2018, 07:04 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Right, because when your argument has been so thoroughly discredited, the only thing left is to fixate on the most irrelevant detail.
Looks at my post...

Did you mean to quote that post? I mean there is nothing irrelevant in that post at all. Are you referring to your utterly absurd statement that you were more appalled by my comment than the actual persecution of religious in China and the detention of 1 million people?

Because if you think that thoroughly discredited anything I have written, I am going to have to go right ahead and disagree.

I get that you firmly believe that the attacks on religious in China has nothing to do with atheism, but.... well just take a long hard look at that aentence and maybe the scales will fall as they did for St Paul on the road to Damascus.
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Old 11th September 2018, 07:25 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Odd isn't it. God is powerless against the Chinese government. Almost as though he/she/it/housecat doesn't exist at all.
This is a difficult question.

Notice how TBD dodges difficult questions?
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Old 11th September 2018, 07:44 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I get that you firmly believe that the attacks on religious in China has nothing to do with atheism, but.... well just take a long hard look at that aentence and maybe the scales will fall as they did for St Paul on the road to Damascus.
What is utterly absurd is your insistence that atheism is the cause of the persecution rather than politics, as is clearly and obviously the case, and as it has been demonstrated to you any number of times. Everything else is trivial.

I notice that you completely didn't bother to respond to my showing you how wildly innacurate your use of the word "sinicize" was and how it referred to political and cultural imperialism rather than religious persecution. Care to make a response to that? Or would you rather continue to focus on the trivialities rather than get to the bottom of what is actually causing these people to be persecuted?
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:01 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Odd isn't it. God is powerless against the Chinese government. Almost as though he/she/it/housecat doesn't exist at all.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This is a difficult question.

Notice how TBD dodges difficult questions?

Well you see God shows how clever and powerful he, (has to be a "he" of course), is by managing to remain undetected. If he did stuff then we could say a-ha, there he is.

The Big Dogs deft avoidance of difficult questions is well noted by many here. Glad I could help out with this one.
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:04 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
What is utterly absurd is your insistence that atheism is the cause of the persecution rather than politics, as is clearly and obviously the case, and as it has been demonstrated to you any number of times. Everything else is trivial.

I notice that you completely didn't bother to respond to my showing you how wildly innacurate your use of the word "sinicize" was and how it referred to political and cultural imperialism rather than religious persecution. Care to make a response to that? Or would you rather continue to focus on the trivialities rather than get to the bottom of what is actually causing these people to be persecuted?
What is causing religious people to be persecuted by the Official Atheist state? Religion of course. I did respond to your comment about sinicize of course, shall I quote the article again?

No, I will go one better!

“Xi said that the key to the CCP’s policy on religious affairs is “the way of guidance,” which should be “effective, powerful, and proactive.” Chinese youth in particular, Xi said, must be guided to “believe in science, study science, spread science, and to have a correct worldview.” As for CCP members, they “should be firm Marxist atheists and must never find their values and beliefs in any religion,” Xi added.”

https://thediplomat.com/2017/10/chin...ions-in-china/

Firm Marxist atheists

Golly folks, I wonder what Sinicize means in the context of the pogrom against Religious in China. Pro tip: atheism.
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:12 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I was discussing the latest pogroms against religious people, this time in China.

The soviets and the Chinese attacked people and institutions that believe in God (and other religious folks as well!). Exactly what about these basic facts are you not following?
What I’m “following” is your refusal to respond to anyone else’s points while running about like a 4-year-old with your fingers in your ears yelling “la, la, la, la, LA, I can’t hear you.”
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:20 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
Is your point "atheists bad, religious good" or "all of them bad"? Did the Soviets and Chinese blame "God" for their acts?
Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
What I’m “following” is your refusal to respond to anyone else’s points while running about like a 4-year-old with your fingers in your ears yelling “la, la, la, la, LA, I can’t hear you.”
Oh dear, was “did the soviets and Chinese blame ‘god’ for their acts” a point?

No they did not.

Good “point.”
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:41 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Well, since they both seem to think Xi is great I would be against both of them. But that's just me.

That, and I couldn't figure out a decent joke with a "That's what Xi said!" punch line.
D'oh! I like yours better.

How about...

"I've got the biggest 'rocket' in the world!"

"That's what Xi said!"
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:54 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What is causing religious people to be persecuted by the Official Atheist state? Religion of course. I did respond to your comment about sinicize of course, shall I quote the article again?

No, I will go one better!

“Xi said that the key to the CCP’s policy on religious affairs is “the way of guidance,” which should be “effective, powerful, and proactive.” Chinese youth in particular, Xi said, must be guided to “believe in science, study science, spread science, and to have a correct worldview.” As for CCP members, they “should be firm Marxist atheists and must never find their values and beliefs in any religion,” Xi added.”

https://thediplomat.com/2017/10/chin...ions-in-china/

Firm Marxist atheists

Golly folks, I wonder what Sinicize means in the context of the pogrom against Religious in China. Pro tip: atheism. CHINESE CULTURE (Pro tip: it's in the name)
Stop whipping yourself. It isn't good for you, or us to watch.
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:04 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What is causing religious people to be persecuted by the Official Atheist state? Religion of course. I did respond to your comment about sinicize of course, shall I quote the article again?
Yup. Utterly predictable response. Atheism really is the boogeyman to you, isn't it? Why do you feel so threatened by it?
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:39 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yup. Utterly predictable response. Atheism really is the boogeyman to you, isn't it? Why do you feel so threatened by it?
He's picked the result he wants. Now all he is doing is a desperate search for square evidence he can hammer into a round hole to back it up.
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:41 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Who said that?

That being said, I am certain that all who support it are atheist however.
Actually, I suspect that most who support it follow a different religion. Like the sino-catholics or han Buddhists.

Nothing like religions to suppress their rivals.

After all, while communist states might be officially atheist, the vast majority of people still are religious, and if you look at the resurgence of the orthodox church in Russia this included most people in power at the time.

Imperial/communist China has a long history of suppressing any from of potential secondary power structure that might lead to independent parts of the country, so this, imo reprehensible act, has nothing to do with actual atheism, and everything to do with a totalitarian regime acting as normal.
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:43 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
He's picked the result he wants. Now all he is doing is a desperate search for square evidence he can hammer into a round hole to back it up.
My concern is that in directing his ire against atheists, he is ignoring and dismissing the real threat to people - which is totalitarian cultural imperialism.

Perhaps because he knows that the Catholic Church has engaged in this practice for centuries.
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:53 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
My concern is that in directing his ire against atheists, he is ignoring and dismissing the real threat to people - which is totalitarian cultural imperialism.

Perhaps because he knows that the Catholic Church has engaged in this practice for centuries.
True.

What he seems not to understand is that many people would agree with him on unacceptable overbearing politics and methods of the Chinese Communist Party (and Leninist Communism, and Maoist Communism, and Vietnamese Socialism, and Kim Socialism, etc.) Just that he has made it about atheism only. That's about as relevant to the topic as the colour of the suits the Kommisars wear, i.e. mostly brown. Are we now down on brown suits too?
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Old 11th September 2018, 11:36 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Inserted by the Washington Post as part of their dastardly plan to criticize Atheism?

Fascinating theory, and so appropriate for 9/11 because it is the "truth."

"Join one of the officially registered churches that are "loyal" to the party and you're fine, they're cracking down on the unregistered churches which strongly implies its not a belief in god they take issue with but loyalty to god over party."



Hmm, it appears that they are cracking down on officially registered churches which strongly implies it is belief in god they take issue with AND loyalty to god over party.

Well argued.
The Bishop I quoted disagrees with you.
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Old 11th September 2018, 11:57 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
What I’m “following” is your refusal to respond to anyone else’s points while running about like a 4-year-old with your fingers in your ears yelling “la, la, la, la, LA, I can’t hear you.”
It is typical of Christian fanaticism that it never answers to hard objections. When he is in front of an insurmountable difficulty the fanatic Christian comes back to his mantra-refuge.

Chinese government’s persecution against some Christian sects is due to atheism or repressive politics.
If the Chinese government’s persecution against this Christian sect was due to atheism no religion would be tolerated in China.
The Chinese government doesn’t persecute some religions.
The Chinese government persecutes other social movements that are not religious.
Then, Chinese government’s attacks against some Christian sects are not due to its atheism, but to its repressive politics.

I have not seen that the Big Dog can answer this strong objection to his routine mantra about atheism and communism.

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Old 12th September 2018, 12:07 AM   #145
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If atheists destroyed Church's Chicken, I'd be fine with that policy.
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Old 12th September 2018, 02:52 AM   #146
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Clearly China is doing something wrong here. What are you proposing we do in response? Raise tariffs on iPhones? Stop the import of Fords made in China? Praise their leader as a great strong man? Continue to support politicians who think it is none of our business what China does to their own people?
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Old 12th September 2018, 03:01 AM   #147
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Christians in China have it easy, compared to Muslims or Tibetan Buddhists.
The crackdown on religion is a rational preemptive measure to avoid a Chechnya situation.

It's amazing how slow ISIS and Co. is in catching up to the reality that China is a far greater danger to The Faith than the West.
But I have little doubt that it will.
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Old 12th September 2018, 03:47 AM   #148
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It strikes me that if someone were really concerned about freedom of religion and expression that they might also mention what the PRC has been doing to Uighurs and in Tibet.
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Old 12th September 2018, 04:32 AM   #149
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Old 12th September 2018, 04:41 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Stop whipping yourself. It isn't good for you, or us to watch.

She has no idea what actual Marxist atheism, but it would probably scare her even more if she had.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th September 2018, 06:17 AM   #151
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Stop whipping yourself. It isn't good for you, or us to watch.
I burst out laughing. Say folks he bolded the word Marxist, so no one would notice the word ATHEIST, as in be a "firm Marxist atheists"

Hey look I bolded it and made it bigger because ATHEISTS just like it explains in detail in the article I linked and which predictably everyone ignored.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yup. Utterly predictable response. Atheism really is the boogeyman to you, isn't it? Why do you feel so threatened by it?
Quoting to the Diplomat was utterly predictable? You mean you predicted the article that totally destroyed your argument and that you completely ignored.

Fascinating! Say, how about this part, did you predict this too?

Quote:
Academia, in the past, tended to use the term “sinicization” to describe local adoption of religions imported from foreign regions. Buddhism in particular gradually integrated into the Chinese culture through a long history and finally been accepted as a Chinese religion.

Yet the term gained a new political meaning in 2016. In late April, 2016, Xi presided over a working conference on national religious affairs, making him the first Chinese president to do so in over ten years. The last time a president personally attended such a conference was in 2001, when then-President Jiang Zemin decided to crack down on “cults” after the Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident related to Fanlun Gong. Xi’s attendance at the conference significantly raised the importance of religious affairs on the CCP’s agenda. During the conference, Xi demanded that China should “actively guide religions to adapt to the socialist society.”
FIRM MARXIST ATHEISTS

Oh look, I highlighted the noun!
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Old 12th September 2018, 06:31 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Big Dog's opinion might be totally silly, but he has a right to them..and to practice them (so wrong as he does not interfere with other people's rights)
without the government harassing him.
You are quite correct and I do completely agree with you.
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Old 12th September 2018, 06:32 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hmmm, gotta tell you that flat out sounds like something that is totally made up...

checks thread....

yep
'k.

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Old 12th September 2018, 06:33 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I burst out laughing. Say folks he bolded the word Marxist, so no one would notice the word ATHEIST, as in be a "firm Marxist atheists"

Yes, when in fact ATHEISTS is the noun, and big, and in RED! Psst! Don't they know grammar? Don't they know colour coding?


Like when you loaded the thread title with your hate speech: Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful


They must be white, and you know, the Son of Sam was white .



Just saying...
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Old 12th September 2018, 06:46 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Why am I even bothering to engage here?
QFT
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:34 AM   #156
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Hate Speech.

We are in a thread about the official atheist Nation of China deliberately persecuting millions of people and pointing this out is

Hate Speech.

My concern is that in directing ire against me, atheists are ignoring and dismissing the real threat to people - which is totalitarian cultural Atheism.
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Last edited by The Big Dog; 12th September 2018 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:49 AM   #157
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US May Make Rare Move Against Atheist China

Quote:
President Trump has been quick to go after China on trade issues, but the New York Times reports his administration is poised to penalize Beijing on a human rights issue for perhaps the first time. The administration is considering sanctions in response to China's crackdown on minority Muslims, specifically ethnic Uighurs, in the name of national security.
http://www.newser.com/story/264468/u...nst-china.html

The fact that it is spreading and impacting more religious is all the more reason to do so because of the religious human rights catastrophe in China caused by the Sinicization strategy adopted in 2016 to make Chinese and those under its thumb "Firm marxist Atheists."
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:52 AM   #158
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As Dr. Keith said, something must be done... Any comments OP?
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Clearly China is doing something wrong here. What are you proposing we do in response? Raise tariffs on iPhones? Stop the import of Fords made in China? Praise their leader as a great strong man? Continue to support politicians who think it is none of our business what China does to their own people?
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:52 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hate Speech.

We are in a thread about the official atheist Nation of China deliberately persecuting millions of people and pointing this out is

Hate Speech.

My concern is that in directing ire against me, atheists are ignoring and dismissing the real threat to people - which is totalitarian cultural Atheism.
The vast majority of Chinese people are religious, it is a deeply religious country, it would be extraordinary that any group involved in the terrible persecution mentioned in this thread would be all atheists.

The state is atheist in China, as the USA state is atheist. In some countries the state is religious for example the UK, yet as you know people labeling themselves as religious in the UK Declines year on year. What the state religious "status" is does not necessarily reflect the religious or non religious beliefs of the people that make up the nation.
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:56 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
As Dr. Keith said, something must be done... Any comments OP?
I think we are all supposed to complain to our local atheist bishops and hope that they can prevail on the atheist pope to condemn our atheist brethren in China. I for one will bring this up at the golf course on Sunday.
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