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Tags flat earth , flat earthers

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Old 29th November 2017, 08:47 AM   #41
MikeG
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
Wait, wait, wait. That's can't honestly be your whole strategy, right?....

Well then, I stand corrected.
What's even funnier is the number of times he's said this to actual scientists.
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Old 29th November 2017, 08:55 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
Wait, wait, wait. That's can't honestly be your whole strategy, right? I mean, you can't seriously just respond to everyone with "you wouldn't know what ACTUAL "Science" was if it landed on your head, spun around, and whistled dixie" right? That would be crazy - a child's idea of a rebuttal. I'm sure you're just making a joke about that being your tactic and would never actually rely on such a weak attempt at discourse.



Oh.

Well then, I stand corrected.
I know, if only he'd said.
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Old 29th November 2017, 09:03 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What's even funnier is the number of times he's said this to actual scientists.
But did those scientists have SCIENCE sitting on their heads and whistling Dixie? More importantly, did they know it?

As with so many of these theories, it comes down to the theorist thinking that they know science better than everyone else including actual experts. If nothing else they have great self esteem.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:24 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Lake Pontchartrain utility towers show the curvature:

https://www.metabunk.org/soundly-pro...artrain.t8939/

I've PUMMELED Soundly's Nonsense into the Incoherent Oblivion, personally...

The total distance of these power lines over Lake Pontchartrain is 15.9 Miles.
Per Soundly: Viewer Height was between 35 - 50 Feet, so let's say 40 Feet.
The distance between each Pylon is .18 Miles. (~88 Pylons)
I counted ~ 40 Pylons in Soundly's now infamous "P-900" shot...roughly 7 Miles, with some significant curvature.
Louisiana Length (North/South = 379 Miles)

If Soundly's Pics/Video are Accurate; THEN, we MUST LIVE ON...

"PLANET LOUISIANA" !! smh

Furthermore, according to your 'Spinning-Ball' Narrative, every point along a Tangent from your feet falls away from you in every direction at 8" per mile2.

The horizon at 7 Miles from 90 degrees --- through Zero --- to 270 degrees is 21.5 MILES.

So you're saying that we see significant curvature on the Z Axis....which is at 7 Miles BUT along the X Axis...which is 21.5 MILES: It's FLAT, No Curvature ???


So to remain "COHERENT" with Soundly's Z Axis, the X Axis should look like this...

http://imgur.com/iWg9vSZ

Do you need more Gasoline with your Matches?


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Old 29th November 2017, 12:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
As opposed to anti-science ignorami parroting stupid youtube memes.

Have some pictures of Earth taken decades before any computer would be capable of producing anything like it.

https://i.imgur.com/iK7tS8q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/12OZ6Ap.jpg


Please Provide the Original Source Files...?


regards
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
The curve doesn't go away just because you don't see it from a different angle.

Say What?



Quote:
Does the back of a house go away when you look at the front?

Nope.


regards
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:38 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
How can you say that evolution is a fairytale when you don't even know what it is?

I was referring to "Nobody" knows what it is. I'll show ya...

'evolution'?? What's that...? Define evolution...?

a. Post the Scientific Theory of evolution...?
b. Post just TWO Formal Scientific Hypotheses then Experiments that concretized it into a REAL Scientific Theory...?
c. Post the Null Hypotheses that were Rejected/Falsified for each...?
d. Highlight The Independent Variables used in Each TEST...?

regards
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:45 PM   #48
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Amazing how nobody has ever been able to see both Singapore and Chicago simultaneously from way up yonder in the sky, or even from the top of Mount Everest or Kilimanjaro

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Old 29th November 2017, 12:55 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Please Provide the Original Source Files...?


regards
Why?

Are you under the impression that they are somehow made up? Is it news to you that there are literally thousands of images of Earth pre-dating digital imagery and CGI? If it is then you need to step out of this conversation.

Here, have a link to my personal copy of a 1968 publication containing the first image.

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/ephem...caninspace.pdf

The other one - well, how about you try and do a reverse search and see if you can work out what it is.

I've got a shelf full of publications from the 1960s and 1970s all with lots of lovely photos of Earth in them taken by Apollo, Surveyor, ATS satellites, the original Lunar Orbiter series, all way before any CGI was possible.
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Old 29th November 2017, 12:57 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
They didn't have CGI in 1947.

"First Photo From Space", eh? Well you have a couple problems...

1. There is No "Space" (i.e. No "Vacuum of Space").
2. Rotate this "Photo" 90 degrees Clockwise, what do you see...?


regards
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
Why?

So I can run them through Photo Forensics and Validate their Authenticity, Objectively.



Quote:
Are you under the impression that they are somehow made up?

Yes, since every appeal ("Photo") of the Earth that I've run though Forensics has been Manipulated.


Quote:
Is it news to you that there are literally thousands of images of Earth pre-dating digital imagery and CGI?

Post some...?


Quote:
If it is then you need to step out of this conversation.

I don't think so.

Quote:
Here, have a link to my personal copy of a 1968 publication containing the first image.

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/ephem...caninspace.pdf

Source File Please...?


Quote:
I've got a shelf full of publications from the 1960s and 1970s all with lots of lovely photos of Earth in them taken by Apollo, Surveyor, ATS satellites, the original Lunar Orbiter series, all way before any CGI was possible.

Sure. When was CGI first Possible...?


regards
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:06 PM   #52
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I'll be kind, have a scan of my own dated cover to help you work out the other image I poste:

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Last edited by threadworm; 29th November 2017 at 01:08 PM. Reason: resized
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
So I can run them through Photo Forensics and Validate their Authenticity, Objectively.
You think you can do that with a paper copy?

Quote:


Yes, since every appeal ("Photo") of the Earth that I've run though Forensics has been Manipulated.
Digital copies of paper images have a habit of being put through digital imaging software. The paper, on the other hand...

Quote:
Post some...?
On the evidence so far there is little point. GIYF, but try this one

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...9710017145.pdf


Quote:
Source File Please...?
That is the source file - I scanned my own paper copy.

Quote:
Sure. When was CGI first Possible...?
Internet searches not working for you?
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:17 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Amazing how nobody has ever been able to see both Singapore and Chicago simultaneously from way up yonder in the sky, or even from the top of Mount Everest or Kilimanjaro

Can you be a little more specific than "way up yonder in the sky"?

Well our eyesight has limitations inherently, not even speaking to Atmospheric Conditions.

With Mount Everest at 29,029 Feet, the Horizon is at 208 Miles. Is Chicago or Singapore within 208 Miles of Mount Everest?


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Old 29th November 2017, 01:21 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
You think you can do that with a paper copy?

Nope.



Quote:
On the evidence so far there is little point. GIYF, but try this one

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...9710017145.pdf

This isn't a Source File.



Quote:
That is the source file - I scanned my own paper copy.

Are you kidding?



Quote:
Internet searches not working for you?

Yes just fine; However, it's not "MY" Job to support "YOUR" Claims.


regards
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:38 PM   #56
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If you measure the angle at base of the Humber Bridge towers they are 90 degrees to the ground. If you measure the distance between them they are 36 mm (1.4 inches) farther apart at the top. This is due to the curvature of the Earth.
If you measure the height of the road deck above the river Humber it is the same height right across but it is built with a curve, this is due to the curvature of the Earth.

It is a solid steel and concrete measure of the curvature compared to the bottom.

Similar length Suspension bridges such as Japan's Akashi Kaikyō Bridge and China's Xihoumen Bridge have similar characteristics.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:45 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
With Mount Everest at 29,029 Feet, the Horizon is at 208 Miles. Is Chicago or Singapore within 208 Miles of Mount Everest?
Sensational! You just managed to prove the earth is not flat.
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:47 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
With Mount Everest at 29,029 Feet, the Horizon is at 208 Miles. Is Chicago or Singapore within 208 Miles of Mount Everest?
The horizon is how distant, on a flat Earth?

Your mask slipped there. You need to get back in character.

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Old 29th November 2017, 01:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
So I can run them through Photo Forensics and Validate their Authenticity, Objectively.
I doubt that your "photo forensics" would remotely objective.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Yes, since every appeal ("Photo") of the Earth that I've run though Forensics has been Manipulated.
At some point you should examine the possibility that that's caused by your flawed methods.

Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Source File Please...?
You're setting up an impossible level of evidence. If it's new, then it's CGI. If it's old, you need to see the original negatives which obviously aren't going to be available.

Meanwhile, not only can the flat earthers not provide a *single* picture of the flat earth but they can't even come up with a map!
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Old 29th November 2017, 01:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sensational! You just managed to prove the earth is not flat.
He didn't mean to say that................
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Old 29th November 2017, 02:06 PM   #61
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When I am on the beach at Saltburn I can see as far up the coast as Redcar about three miles, further than that and stuff starts to disappear below the horizon. If I look across the Tees Bay I can see Hartlepool town and the cranes and warehouses at the docks but I can't see the seawall, it's below the horizon.
looking further up the coast I see less above the horizon until all I see are the tops of the cliffs at Easington and further on the tops of the tower blocks in Seaham.

If I start walking up the path from the beach to the top of Warsett Hill above Huntcliff 700 ft above sea level, I see more and more. I can see Seaham harbour then the docks and lighthouses at Sunderland and the city above. Finally at the top I can see Tynemouth, over thirty miles away.

It's the same with ships off the coast. At Saltburn beach I only see ships in the Tees Bay Anchorage or coming n to the Tees itself. As I go higher I can see more and more ships moving north and south along the coast. I can use my Ship Tracking App and identify them all and their distance from me. Some are service ships working on offshore Wind Farms, when the big Platform ships are in position I can see the tops of their pylons and cranes before they themselves come in to view as I climb the path.

This is direct evidence with my own eyes
How would this be possible on a flat Earth?
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:08 PM   #62
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"Flat Earth" is a thing because YouTube pays for clicks and it's really easy to access.
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
So I can run them through Photo Forensics and Validate their Authenticity, Objectively.


Yes, since every appeal ("Photo") of the Earth that I've run though Forensics has been Manipulated.


Sure. When was CGI first Possible...?


regards
Really? All these photos?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projec...archive/albums

Every one of 'em?

How about this image from Apollo 7? One of my favorites.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projec...7658999650280/

Make sure you go to the big view. Can you explain exactly how this image was faked in 1968?

Will you be doing the photo forensicatin'? And your qualifications are?
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Old 29th November 2017, 03:32 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
When I am on the beach at Saltburn I can see as far up the coast as Redcar about three miles, further than that and stuff starts to disappear below the horizon. If I look across the Tees Bay I can see Hartlepool town and the cranes and warehouses at the docks but I can't see the seawall, it's below the horizon.
looking further up the coast I see less above the horizon until all I see are the tops of the cliffs at Easington and further on the tops of the tower blocks in Seaham.

If I start walking up the path from the beach to the top of Warsett Hill above Huntcliff 700 ft above sea level, I see more and more. I can see Seaham harbour then the docks and lighthouses at Sunderland and the city above. Finally at the top I can see Tynemouth, over thirty miles away.

It's the same with ships off the coast. At Saltburn beach I only see ships in the Tees Bay Anchorage or coming n to the Tees itself. As I go higher I can see more and more ships moving north and south along the coast. I can use my Ship Tracking App and identify them all and their distance from me. Some are service ships working on offshore Wind Farms, when the big Platform ships are in position I can see the tops of their pylons and cranes before they themselves come in to view as I climb the path.

This is direct evidence with my own eyes
How would this be possible on a flat Earth?


Ahaaaa! So you think all this is because the earth is spherical. I can pick all that apart with my sharp analytical brain as easy as pie. But Iím not going to, you have to figure it out for yourself


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Old 29th November 2017, 06:56 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
I've PUMMELED Soundly's Nonsense into the Incoherent Oblivion, personally...

The total distance of these power lines over Lake Pontchartrain is 15.9 Miles.
Per Soundly: Viewer Height was between 35 - 50 Feet, so let's say 40 Feet.
The distance between each Pylon is .18 Miles. (~88 Pylons)
I counted ~ 40 Pylons in Soundly's now infamous "P-900" shot...roughly 7 Miles, with some significant curvature.
Louisiana Length (North/South = 379 Miles)

If Soundly's Pics/Video are Accurate; THEN, we MUST LIVE ON...

"PLANET LOUISIANA" !! smh

Furthermore, according to your 'Spinning-Ball' Narrative, every point along a Tangent from your feet falls away from you in every direction at 8" per mile2.

The horizon at 7 Miles from 90 degrees --- through Zero --- to 270 degrees is 21.5 MILES.

So you're saying that we see significant curvature on the Z Axis....which is at 7 Miles BUT along the X Axis...which is 21.5 MILES: It's FLAT, No Curvature ???


So to remain "COHERENT" with Soundly's Z Axis, the X Axis should look like this...

http://imgur.com/iWg9vSZ

Do you need more Gasoline with your Matches?


regards
Nice word salad.

You
Can
See
The
Curve

Your geometrical musings are meaningless.

The curve is real. And it matches the curvature for the globe per calculations, did you bother to read the Metabunk article?
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Old 29th November 2017, 06:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Can you be a little more specific than "way up yonder in the sky"?

Well our eyesight has limitations inherently, not even speaking to Atmospheric Conditions.

With Mount Everest at 29,029 Feet, the Horizon is at 208 Miles. Is Chicago or Singapore within 208 Miles of Mount Everest?


regards
Um.
If the earth is indeed flat, the horizon would actually be that great stupid ice wall that you think keeps the water and air in...


ETA: Ninja'd by everyone....

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Old 29th November 2017, 07:19 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Say What?






Nope.


regards
Then the curve is real.
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Old 29th November 2017, 07:20 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
"First Photo From Space", eh? Well you have a couple problems...

1. There is No "Space" (i.e. No "Vacuum of Space").
2. Rotate this "Photo" 90 degrees Clockwise, what do you see...?


regards
Sophistry. And anyway you rotate it, there is a curve too.
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Old 29th November 2017, 08:38 PM   #69
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Why don't all the flat earthers start a kickstarter and pool their money to loan an aircraft and then fly to the edge or all the way around, whichever comes first?

Like this should be so damn easy to prove if the Earth was flat
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Old 29th November 2017, 09:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Why don't all the flat earthers start a kickstarter and pool their money to loan an aircraft and then fly to the edge or all the way around, whichever comes first?

Like this should be so damn easy to prove if the Earth was flat
they have an answer for that. They say you are flying in a circle on the flat earth
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Source File Please...?
you want the source file for a photograph that was taken with a film camera? Seriously? My god, do you people think that current computer technology has been around for 60 years? JPEGs were only invented in 1992, 34 years after this shot was taken!

All missions pre-shuttle used film and photographic plates. The Lunar Orbiter missions actually had a photographic development lab and a scanner on them. They took the photos, developed them, scanned them, and radioed the scanned image back to earth to be created on what was basically a fax machine.

The first CGI was done in 1968 and as you can see from looking at it below, it wasn't exactly photorealistic.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Photoshop wouldn't be around for another 22 years after that!
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Old 29th November 2017, 11:21 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Why don't all the flat earthers start a kickstarter and pool their money to loan an aircraft and then fly to the edge or all the way around, whichever comes first?

Like this should be so damn easy to prove if the Earth was flat
All they have to do is fly around Antarctica.....
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:48 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Nope.






This isn't a Source File.
Define 'source file'. It is a scanned copy of a document, one of many in existence, compiling the images taken by a geostationary satellite. If you have evidence that those images aren't genuine then feel free to provide that.

Quote:


Are you kidding?
Nope. Are you telling my I don't own that document and didn't scan it? It is my scan of my 1967 booklet.

Just for fun, here's that same ATS-3 image in a 1969 book 'Violent Universe' by Nigel Calder. I'm even being kind to you by showing you the dated library stickers in the front.





Quote:
Yes just fine; However, it's not "MY" Job to support "YOUR" Claims.
Nope, you're the one that made the often repeated but totally false claim that there are no non-cgi images of Earth. Prove it. Prove that computer graphics existed either at all or in a form powerful enough when the photos I posted were taken. Prove that there was anything capable of rendering images of Earth taken from space in the 1960s on live TV that match the weather satellite imagery of the day - satellite imagery available to anyone with the right equipment.

Even if you can prove the equipment was available to do what you claim (it wasn't), you still need to prove your claim that the images of Earth from that era actually were faked using CGI.

You still need to prove that the modern images that have been generated by digital means aren't genuine.
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Old 30th November 2017, 12:53 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
you want the source file for a photograph that was taken with a film camera? Seriously? My god, do you people think that current computer technology has been around for 60 years? JPEGs were only invented in 1992, 34 years after this shot was taken!

All missions pre-shuttle used film and photographic plates. The Lunar Orbiter missions actually had a photographic development lab and a scanner on them. They took the photos, developed them, scanned them, and radioed the scanned image back to earth to be created on what was basically a fax machine.

The first CGI was done in 1968 and as you can see from looking at it below, it wasn't exactly photorealistic.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Photoshop wouldn't be around for another 22 years after that!
That video is showing a more complex version of one of the first bits of computer programming I did in the mid-1980s. Took a long series of instructions recorded on a cassette to produce a simple drawing of a leaf. Took me days to write. And people like Daniel puking out the false 'it was all CGI' claim think that's good enough to produce photo-realistic real time imagery?

Ridiculous.
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:12 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
Define 'source file'. It is a scanned copy of a document, one of many in existence, compiling the images taken by a geostationary satellite. If you have evidence that those images aren't genuine then feel free to provide that.



Nope. Are you telling my I don't own that document and didn't scan it? It is my scan of my 1967 booklet.

Just for fun, here's that same ATS-3 image in a 1969 book 'Violent Universe' by Nigel Calder. I'm even being kind to you by showing you the dated library stickers in the front.

https://i.imgur.com/lZu2ABT.jpg





Nope, you're the one that made the often repeated but totally false claim that there are no non-cgi images of Earth. Prove it. Prove that computer graphics existed either at all or in a form powerful enough when the photos I posted were taken. Prove that there was anything capable of rendering images of Earth taken from space in the 1960s on live TV that match the weather satellite imagery of the day - satellite imagery available to anyone with the right equipment.

Even if you can prove the equipment was available to do what you claim (it wasn't), you still need to prove your claim that the images of Earth from that era actually were faked using CGI.

You still need to prove that the modern images that have been generated by digital means aren't genuine.
Ask him his opinion about evolution.
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:14 AM   #76
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Some more on Csuri's technique in producing the video posted by PhantomWolf:

Quote:
"The subject was a line drawing of a hummingbird for which a sequence of movements appropriate to the bird were outlined," recalls Csuri. "Over 30,000 images comprising some 25 motion sequences were generated by the computer. For these, selected sequences were used for the film. A microfilm plotter recorded the images directly to film. To facilitate control over the motion of some sequences, the programs were written to read all the controlling parameters from cards, one card for each frame."
https://sciencenode.org/spotlight/ch...-its-wings.php
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Old 30th November 2017, 01:23 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
All they have to do is fly around Antarctica.....
Don't they have this fantasy about compasses not indicating direction properly, GPS being fakery, and that all voyages claiming to be in a straight line are actually curved? I'm buggered if I can see how they explain away the voyages of sailors around the globe.

Joshua Slocombe, the first to circumnavigate the globe solo, met Paul Kruger, president of South Africa, as he was nearing the end of his voyage. Kruger was a flat earther, who told Slocombe to his face that he was lying about his voyage, despite Slocombe having signed testimony from various mayors, prime ministers, harbourmasters, and so on that he had in fact been to the places he'd been. Where is the warp in the space time continuum* which means travelling continually east you don't end up A/ falling off the edge of the earth and B/ arriving back where you started?

* It's between the ears of flat earthers, the world's ultimate ignorami.
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Old 30th November 2017, 03:43 AM   #78
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Let's expand a little more on the CGI capabilities around in the late 1960s. Charles Csuri, who made the image shown in PhantomWolf's video link, used an IBM 1130 and later a PDP 11/45.

Let's have a look at them:





As you can see from the monitors...oh...wait...no monitors. Well the graphics card output goes to...oh...wait...no graphics card invented yet.

Csuri's pioneering work involved translating cartesian coordinates on a VDU display into punch cards in FORTRAN. That was translated by the computer into (initially) a paper output via a pantograph plotter. Line by line. The video shown above is effectively a stop motion animation of a sequence of those paper printouts.

Now if Daniel wants to explain how that process was used to produce Apollo 8's Earthrise image I'm all ears.
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Old 30th November 2017, 03:55 AM   #79
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The military always has secret technology that is 50 years ahead of what public science knows! [/CT]
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Old 30th November 2017, 04:10 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The military always has secret technology that is 50 years ahead of what public science knows! [/CT]
That is true, a reliable source told me the same thing very recently

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8&postcount=79
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