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Tags donald trump , Michael Flynn , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 1st December 2017, 11:24 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't see this being yuuuge or going anywhere.

I think Flynn is the end of this tunnel.
Based on....?
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Old 1st December 2017, 11:25 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post


Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't see this being yuuuge or going anywhere.

I think Flynn is the end of this tunnel.
WTF? Apparently you are not paying attention.

It's telling that other crimes he has admitted to (not registering as a foreign agent, lying on the security form, receiving millions in undeclared payments, and maybe conspiring to kidnap a legal resident) were not included because it suggests an exchange to get other members of the Trump admin, specifically Trump and Kushne, and of course, outside the admin, Donnie Jr.

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Old 1st December 2017, 11:25 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doesn't this strike you as an abuse of process - surely this run contrary to justice?

I can't tell whether you're joking, but the answer is no. It's not an abuse of process to fail to charge someone with a crime. Prosecutors have broad discretion unless they're preferring one class of citizens over another (whites/people of color or Protestants/Catholics). Since Flynn and his son are probably the same color and religion, that shouldn't be a factor.


Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Flynn doesn't appear to be testifying to anything illegal outside his own behavior.

... in public, yet.


Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't see this being yuuuge or going anywhere.

I think Flynn is the end of this tunnel.

There is no way this tunnel ends with one charge of lying to the FBI. Flynn was in constant communication with Jared, Don Jr., and Trump himself. They may not convict anybody higher up than Flynn, but they'll definitely prefer charges.
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Old 1st December 2017, 11:28 AM   #84
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Just a reminder: "collusion" became "criminal conspiracy" the moment Trump's team knew the Russians' intelligence was the product of hacked emails, and did not immediately report such. We know they had such knowledge at least as early as March 2016.
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Old 1st December 2017, 11:28 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Mueller was appointed in May.

The FBI interviews in question were in January regarding Flynn's calls and election collusion. Long before Mueller was appointed.

What's your point? That an investigation into the Trump campaign's ties to Russia was about to happen was leaked back in November 2016. It was officially confirmed by Comey in March 2017, as being already in progress.

He lied to the FBI. If that's all they had, he probably would have been charged with that earlier than now.

ETA: The moment Flynn's lawyers stopped talking to Trump's lawyers is likely when the FBI informed Flynn and his lawyers of their intention to charge Flynn. That was very recent. As I said, it's very likely that they got a lot more out of Flynn than we're currently aware of.

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Old 1st December 2017, 11:39 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's a very gray area because Flynn can say that he believed he had governmental authorization to make the contacts, since an incoming admin official directed him. The Act is specifically about contacts without authorization.
I believe the proper saying is "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Flynn was not some 20-something neophyte. He had been around for decades, serving at some of the highest levels of government. He should have known about restrictions about negotiating with foreign countries.
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Old 1st December 2017, 11:56 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lea/913350001/

After over 33 years of military service to our country, including nearly five years in combat away from my family, and then my decision to continue to serve the United States, it has been extraordinarily painful to endure these many months of false accusations of "treason" and other outrageous acts. Such false accusations are contrary to everything I have ever done and stood for. But I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong, and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right. My guilty plea and agreement to cooperate with the Special Counsel's Office reflect a decision I made in the best interests of my family and of our country. I accept full responsibility for my actions.
An admitted liar and felon lamenting the pain of enduring “false accusations”.

It just breaks your heart, doesn’t it?
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:00 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Flynn doesn't appear to be testifying to anything illegal outside his own behavior.
One possibility. This charge means that they have not tipped their hand about what they are really chasing and who.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


WTF? Apparently you are not paying attention.

It's telling that other crimes he has admitted to (not registering as a foreign agent, lying on the security form, receiving millions in undeclared payments, and maybe conspiring to kidnap a legal resident) were not included because it suggests an exchange to get other members of the Trump admin, specifically Trump and Kushne, and of course, outside the admin, Donnie Jr.
Right, so why didn't the FBI charge Flynn during it's own investigation?
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:04 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I believe the proper saying is "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Flynn was not some 20-something neophyte. He had been around for decades, serving at some of the highest levels of government. He should have known about restrictions about negotiating with foreign countries.
Some experienced lawyers are unsure of that act's scope.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:06 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
What's your point? That an investigation into the Trump campaign's ties to Russia was about to happen was leaked back in November 2016. It was officially confirmed by Comey in March 2017, as being already in progress.

He lied to the FBI. If that's all they had, he probably would have been charged with that earlier than now.

ETA: The moment Flynn's lawyers stopped talking to Trump's lawyers is likely when the FBI informed Flynn and his lawyers of their intention to charge Flynn. That was very recent. As I said, it's very likely that they got a lot more out of Flynn than we're currently aware of.
It is the Special Counsel Mueller charging Flynn, not the FBI.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:08 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Right, so why didn't the FBI charge Flynn during it's own investigation?
Not their job.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It is the Special Counsel Mueller charging Flynn, not the FBI.

If the charges came closer to the actual act, and that's all the FBI had, it would have been someone else filing the charges.

Again, what's your point?
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:14 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doesn't this strike you as an abuse of process - surely this run contrary to justice?
How so?

It's commonplace for prosecutors to exert some leverage in order to gain some advantage and cooperation. Michael Flynn Jr. is not a child, but a full growed man. If the threat of prosecution of Junior prompts cooperation from Senior, I'm not sure I see that that as unjust.

If Junior honestly could be prosecuted, but a deal will prevent that prosecution, then it seems to me that Flynn is benefiting, rather than being harmed by this deal. Of course, if Junior is innocent of all wrongdoing, then I'd agree that a threat to prosecute him in order to obtain Senior's cooperation would be damned dirty.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:15 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Not their job.
Flynn offered to testify in exchange for immunity in March regarding the FBI investigation of election collusion.

So Flynn and his lawyers were already worried about prosecution.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:16 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Flynn offered to testify in exchange for immunity in March regarding the FBI investigation of election collusion.

So Flynn and his lawyers were already worried about prosecution.

What. Is. Your. Point.

You're just flapping your fingers here.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:20 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Flynn offered to testify in exchange for immunity in March regarding the FBI investigation of election collusion.

So Flynn and his lawyers were already worried about prosecution.
Still, the FBI would not be the ones charging him. It is not their job.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:21 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
What. Is. Your. Point.

You're just flapping your fingers here.
So what? Why does my finger flapping upset you so?

I will be the one that has to eat crow, not you.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:27 PM   #99
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Comey seems to be enjoying this:

Quote:
James Comey

@Comey

“But justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream” Amos 5:24
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:28 PM   #100
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http://start.att.net/news/read/artic...de_substan-tca

There you go...

Flynn will help prosecute "another person".
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:33 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
okay.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/micha...ry?id=50849354

ABC’s Brian Ross says a source familiar with the matter says Flynn is prepared to testify against Trump, members of his family, Trump staff, & that Trump ordered him to contact the Russians. Ross says Flynn made the decision to cooperate 24 hours ago

Probably just "overblown and overhyped in the minds of progressives." though.
I think this explains Trump being more unhinged than usual during the past week. He goes mental when the walls are closing in.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:34 PM   #102
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I've scanned the thread rather quickly, but one or two posters seem to have missed that Flynn has ALREADY pleaded guilty. As with Manafort and Papadopoulos, sentencing will be deferred until they've gotten what the need from him.

More on this:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Ken White of Popehat, a former federal prosecutor turned defense attorney, offered some advice a while back: If the FBI is asking you questions about something specific, they probably already know the answer and are seeing if you will lie. Then they've got you.
He's just reiterated that in this tweet.

He also hilariously retweeted this from 2014.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:36 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I think this explains Trump being more unhinged than usual during the past week. He goes mental when the walls are closing in.
"Shut down all the garbage mashers on the Detention Level!"
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:39 PM   #104
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I guess you can look at it at least two ways:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ju...rticle/2642298

Judge warns Mike Flynn to cooperate with prosecutors for lighter sentence
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:39 PM   #105
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Muller is running this just like he would in taking down a Mafia family:Start with the street level punks and work your way up.....
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:42 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Judge Napolitano on @FoxNews right now about the Flynn charges: "This is probably the tip of a prosecutorial iceberg. This is a nightmare for Donald Trump."

The consensus, even on fox news, is this is yuuuge.
Please oh please oh please. - Mike Pence
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:42 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Comey seems to be enjoying this:
As am I! Dominoes falling one by one -- a thing of beauty for those of us who actually believe in truth, justice, and the American way.

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I look forward to the day when I dredge up my early prediction of Trump's demise, for an extra helping of schadenfreude.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:52 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Please oh please oh please. - Mike Pence
Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god!
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:57 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god! Oh man! Oh god!
I need a cigarette now.
And I don't even smoke.
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:58 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
https://twitter.com/OrinKerr/status/936646085543694337
Judge Napolitano on @FoxNews right now about the Flynn charges: "This is probably the tip of a prosecutorial iceberg. This is a nightmare for Donald Trump."

The consensus, even on fox news, is this is yuuuge.
One Fox analyst on Twitter does not make a consensus. That's your argument? Like I'm somehow supposed to take it seriously because Fox News says so (which they don't)?
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:58 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Please oh please oh please. - Mike Pence
Mike pence prayer seems to be answered as current source claim the very senior official is Kushner.

I predict Kushner is the next domino and that little bitch will be singing until he can sing no more.

ETA:

NBC Politics‏Verified account
@NBCPolitics
13m13 minutes ago
More
BREAKING: Jared Kushner is the “very senior member of the presidential transition team” mentioned in the statement of offense as speaking to Flynn on
Dec 22nd about the UN resolution regarding Israel, two people familiar with the matter tell @NBCNews
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Old 1st December 2017, 12:59 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Please oh please oh please. - Mike Pence
I wouldn't be so sure that Pence isn't also a target. President Ryan, anyone?
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:00 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One Fox analyst on Twitter does not make a consensus.
Nor did I claim it did.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's your argument?
No.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Like I'm somehow supposed to take it seriously because Fox News says so (which they don't)?
Go back to your kneejerk defense of trump while the rest of us discuss the facts.
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:02 PM   #114
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Seems like the judge threatened Flynn with the max punishment if Flynn didn't give them someone else.

Which seems like a legal misstep?
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:03 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Sounds weak to me, he was the incoming NSA and would be expected to be contacting foreign governments.
And someone who had signed a contract to buy a house would be expected to start moving their stuff in and moving the seller's stuff out?
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:06 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
And someone who had signed a contract to buy a house would be expected to start moving their stuff in and moving the seller's stuff out?
Ummm...okay?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:06 PM   #117
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One Fox analyst on Twitter does not make a consensus. That's your argument? Like I'm somehow supposed to take it seriously because Fox News says so (which they don't)?
Yea, you're right. This is a total nothingburger.
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:10 PM   #118
Loss Leader
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One Fox analyst on Twitter does not make a consensus. That's your argument? Like I'm somehow supposed to take it seriously because Fox News says so (which they don't)?

Um, what? Every single analyst I've seen so far has agreed that Mueller cut Flynn a deal to get indictable information on a larger player.

The point wasn't that one FOX commenter said so. The point was that even FOX commenters agree - that's how obvious it all is.


Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Seems like the judge threatened Flynn with the max punishment if Flynn didn't give them someone else.

Which seems like a legal misstep?

The judge didn't do that. He stressed that cooperation with prosecutors would be an important mitigating factor in sentencing. How is any of that a legal misstep?
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:12 PM   #119
TheL8Elvis
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Ummm...okay?
You don't move in until after settlement, not after just signing a contract. HTH.
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Old 1st December 2017, 01:24 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Right, so why didn't the FBI charge Flynn during it's own investigation?
Why not? He was charged, it looks like a classic plea bargain in exchange for further cooperation in the investigation of the Trump family.

Mueller still has stuff he holds over Flynn's head. Flynn offered to trade info for immunity ("I have a story to tell") months ago.

As for the nonsense he was told he had authorization, bingo, Trump is guilty:

Obstruction of justice, violations of the Logan Act, conspiracy to use the stolen emails, and conspiring with or accepting secret help from Putin et al in the election and that looks to be in exchange for lifting sanctions and the change in the US position on Ukraine and maybe even NATO.
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