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Old 6th December 2017, 10:05 AM   #1
Jerrymander
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Shouldn't "pull yourself by your bootstraps" apply to Trump voters

Why doesn't the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back? Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:15 AM   #2
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Because the gays/blacks/Mexicans/liberals/atheists/Jews are holding them down, obviously.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:23 AM   #3
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Why doesn't the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back? Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
I am uncertain why you claim "the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back," particularly given the number of Trump supporters who have set up their own businesses and are entrepreneurs.

More importantly, you claim does not make sense. When one wants to "bring jobs back" that is a selfless, compassionate request that mean bringing lots of jobs back for lots of Americans.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am uncertain why you claim "the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back," particularly given the number of Trump supporters who have set up their own businesses and are entrepreneurs.
Can I see a demonstration of this?
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:27 AM   #5
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Can I see a demonstration of this?
https://www.forbes.com/profile/ricketts/
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

I don't understand.

Is it that

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
the number of Trump supporters who have set up their own businesses and are entrepreneurs.
is one?


Can I see what it is that's led you to believe that there are a large number of these people rather than just one?
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:40 AM   #7
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't understand.

Is it that

is one?

Can I see what it is that's led you to believe that there are a large number of these people rather than just one?
sure, there are lots of articles about it. Lots of reading ahead!!
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:43 AM   #8
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
Many people do not have entrepreneurial abilities/skills or desires for this. For these people there are no bootstraps to pull.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Why doesn't the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back? Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
Because they're white and, like their own parents and grandparents, "deserve" strong government assistance. Not like those lazy minorities, who received no such assistance, remained poor, and are thus "lazy" an don't deserve the government help that they supposedly receive*.

*they receive nothing close to what white people used to receive, naturally.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:54 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
sure, there are lots of articles about it. Lots of reading ahead!!
Well, no. I asked what it was that persuaded you that your, as yet demonstrated claim was true.

I didn't ask you to help me with googling.

You've clearly seen some document or documents that have convinced you that you imply that there are a large

Quote:
number of Trump supporters who have set up their own businesses and are entrepreneurs.

Can I please see what it is that's led you to this conclusion. You've clearly seen these documents or articles. Were they secret?
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.

Last edited by 3point14; 6th December 2017 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:58 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Because they're white and, like their own parents and grandparents, "deserve" strong government assistance. Not like those lazy minorities, who received no such assistance, remained poor, and are thus "lazy" an don't deserve the government help that they supposedly receive*.

*they receive nothing close to what white people used to receive, naturally.
It works as thus:

First you have to check their political affiliation.

If a 'leftist' (whatever that is): then they are no good lay abouts looking for government assistance to wipe their asses. They deserve, and should get nothing.

If they are conservatives: then they are proud hard working patriotic christian Americans who are temporarily down on their luck (The cause being said leftists) who just need a touch of assistance to help them pull up their bootstraps.
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Old 6th December 2017, 10:59 AM   #12
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Well, no. I asked what it was that persuaded you that your, as yet demonstrated claim was true.

I didn't ask you to help me with googling.

You've clearly seen some document or documents that have convinced you that you imply that there are a large

Can I pleas see what it is that's led you to this conclusion. You've clearly seen these documents or articles. Were they secret?
Ah, playing the deliberately obtuse card and refusing to read any of the dozens articles in the google link.

Now why don't y'all "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and get busy reading because I am all out of ***** to give. Good luck!
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ah, playing the deliberately obtuse card and refusing to read any of the dozens articles in the google link.

Well, no. Your claim you demonstrate it. Them's the rules.

Please show me which articles particularly persuaded you.


Quote:
Now why don't y'all "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and get busy reading because I am all out of ***** to give. Good luck!

Do you alway s just make **** up to suit your argument then backtrack when challenged? Or is this specially for me?


Your claim remains entirely unproven.
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:08 AM   #14
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More importantly, you claim does not make sense. When one wants to "bring jobs back" that is a selfless, compassionate request that mean bringing lots of jobs back for lots of Americans.
Why are they encouraging people to be dependent on other people and not be self-reliant and have an entrepreneurial spirit.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
I am uncertain why you claim "the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back," particularly given the number of Trump supporters who have set up their own businesses and are entrepreneurs.
I thought the base of Trump's support was working people living paycheck to paycheck?
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:20 AM   #16
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
I thought the base of Trump's support was working people living paycheck to paycheck?
It ain't just about Trump's base, it is about jobs for all Americans.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:34 AM   #17
Jerrymander
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It ain't just about Trump's base, it is about jobs for all Americans.
Don't dodge. Why doesn't Trump base live by their own principles and create their own jobs.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am uncertain why you claim "the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back," particularly given the number of Trump supporters who have set up their own businesses and are entrepreneurs.

More importantly, you claim does not make sense. When one wants to "bring jobs back" that is a selfless, compassionate request that mean bringing lots of jobs back for lots of Americans.
Sounds like a hand out, not a hand up.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:50 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Don't dodge. Why doesn't Trump base live by their own principles and create their own jobs.
Dodge? Dodge what? "I thought the base of Trump's support was working people living paycheck to paycheck?" was that a question to me? Huh, I have no question at all that you think that.

What is this whole "live by their own principles" claim? Was Trump's base out there saying that they were going to create their own jobs? Of course not, the base supported him because he said he would bring back good jobs and stop good jobs from leaving. You entire premise is based on a grossly flawed concepts.

Now why don't they create their own jobs? Why doesn't everyone? Lack of capital, skills, education, opportunity. there are a myriad of reasons particular to each individual, of course. One of our lawyers at a firm we use just left his firm to go inhouse for another client. He was over the moon at tearing up his personal guaranty and not keeping his time sheets in ten minute increments.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:55 AM   #20
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Methinks some of you people are looking too hard for examples of racism.
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Was Trump's base out there saying that they were going to create their own jobs? Of course not, the base supported him because he said he would bring back good jobs and stop good jobs from leaving. You entire premise is based on a grossly flawed concepts.
You know fully well that Trump's base are conservatives, people who have long preached that people should be disciplined and not rely on the government and expect things to be given to them.

Last edited by Jerrymander; 6th December 2017 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
You know fully well that Trump's base are conservatives, people who have long preached that people should be disciplined and not rely on the government and expect things to be given to them.

...unless they want the government to give them back the coal mining jobs that are no longer economically viable.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Why doesn't the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back? Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
Is this related to opioid addicts being victims deserving govt. assistance as opposed to crack cocaine addicts in the 80's and 90's being criminals who belonged in jails?
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
You know fully well that Trump's base are conservatives, people who have long preached that people should be disciplined and not rely on the government and expect things to be given to them.
Don't dodge. let me repeat the following:

"Was Trump's base out there saying that they were going to create their own jobs? Of course not, the base supported him because he said he would bring back good jobs and stop good jobs from leaving. You entire premise is based on a grossly flawed concepts."

Literally nothing you said in any way shape or form contradicted the facts I just laid out.

Do you really expect people to think that the people who supported trump because he promised to bring back coal jobs were going to open their own coal mines? Or the whole Carrier plant issue. Did they vote for Trump because they wanted to build their own air conditioners?
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:29 PM   #25
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As I'm sure is already guessed, I despise Trump, I think his promises are bogus, and that those who voted for him are at best mistaken and at worst fools, but with all that said, I do not see a disconnect of the sort the original post suggests. I think it quite likely that many Trump supporters are entrepreneurs, and quite likely that many have pulled themselves up, although also likely that many cherish the notion that their opportunities are open to everyone when they are not. My random and unscientific observation, of such things as Trump stickers and Trump signs, is that a significant portion of Trump voters are small businessmen and tradespeople who could qualify as "entrepreneurs." It doesn't mean they're right, and it does not mean they understand even their own reality, but it also doesn't mean they're intentionally hypocritical.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Don't dodge. let me repeat the following:

"Was Trump's base out there saying that they were going to create their own jobs? Of course not, the base supported him because he said he would bring back good jobs and stop good jobs from leaving. You entire premise is based on a grossly flawed concepts."

Literally nothing you said in any way shape or form contradicted the facts I just laid out.

Do you really expect people to think that the people who supported trump because he promised to bring back coal jobs were going to open their own coal mines? Or the whole Carrier plant issue. Did they vote for Trump because they wanted to build their own air conditioners?
And I'll repeat what I said:

"You know fully well that Trump's base are conservatives, people who have long preached that people should be disciplined and not rely on the government and expect things to be given to them. "

Are Trump voters not conservative then?

Last edited by Jerrymander; 6th December 2017 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
is that a significant portion of Trump voters are small businessmen and tradespeople who could qualify as "entrepreneurs."
But what about the paycheck-to-paycheck people who are supposedly his base?
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:52 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
So Trump voters aren't conservative then?
Some were conservative as hell, others were much less so and found Trump's job creation rhetoric very appealing.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:57 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Some were conservative as hell, others were much less so and found Trump's job creation rhetoric very appealing.
There is a huge overlap between those groups.

Last edited by Jerrymander; 6th December 2017 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:59 PM   #30
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
There is a huge overlap between those groups.
ok
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:26 PM   #31
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The idea that anybody anywhere can start a business from scratch is a myth.

I've been looking into starting a little home based business repairing musical instruments. I've discovered that if I do it will involve a bunch of licensing regulations I didn't even consider. If I want to refinish instruments I'll need to be both EPA and California licensed, inspected and in compliance with all federal and state regulations concerning not just the materials used but the disposal of all materials that have touched any of the chemicals-paints used in the process (which involves buying a approved disposal container w/disposal permit from the feds and state) and also will need to be inspected by both SFFD and the state Fire Marshall for my materials storage, which I also have to pay for - for maybe three or four 1 quart containers of materials at any one time. My soldering station will need to be inspected for compliance with fume dispersal requirements and etc etc etc.

That ended that part of the thought process. I now know why Fender moved their guitar finishing operation out of California to Arizona and Mexico.

Had I wanted to re-up my SOT nothing would surprise me and I know I'd never be able to do it in SF. That putting new pickups in a guitar required city and state inspections for a soldering iron did.

As much as I hate to admit it, Trump and the Republicans are correct in one area. The federal government and the individual states have endeavored to turn business licensing and regulation into profit centers, and the best way to do it is to pile more and more regulations and requirements that need to be inspected and approved of or denied (leading to more inspections and permit fees - the much loved "Variance" comes with a price tag) by the authorities - many times not even being remotely related to health or safety concerns but related to local concerns over whatever local issue du jour a local legislative body can come up with.
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Old 6th December 2017, 02:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
It works as thus:

First you have to check their political affiliation.

If a 'leftist' (whatever that is): then they are no good lay abouts looking for government assistance to wipe their asses. They deserve, and should get nothing.

If they are conservatives: then they are proud hard working patriotic christian Americans who are temporarily down on their luck (The cause being said leftists) who just need a touch of assistance to help them pull up their bootstraps.
No, I meant exactly what I said - and when you ask most of these people (meaning: not senators, but the folks that grouse at the local bar/diner/etc.), they'll say exactly what I wrote, with the exception of the history of "handouts" to white people, such as college aid and massive help with home loans, which is a historical fact that I added on my own. And if you're black, they'll tell you even if you don't ask, and accuse you of being one such person out of the blue. As a black guy with a MSEE, it's fun to mock them directly to their faces for their bigotry.
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Old 6th December 2017, 05:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Why doesn't the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back? Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
Have you seen the products of incest who show up to his rallies? Asking them to pull themselves up by the bootstraps would be an obscenity. You can't yell, shame or cajole these people into intelligence, initiative or competence.
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Old 6th December 2017, 06:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Why doesn't the mantra of "Pull yourself by your bootstraps" never apply to people who want Trump to bring the jobs back? Why don't these people just sent up their own businesses and be entrepreneurs?
Lordy!

It just goes to show how much your side has been working against these people you speak about.
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Old 6th December 2017, 06:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Have you seen the products of incest who show up to his rallies? Asking them to pull themselves up by the bootstraps would be an obscenity. You can't yell, shame or cajole these people into intelligence, initiative or competence.
Are you serious!!!

Just about every leftist looks like they have an extra chromosome.
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Old 6th December 2017, 06:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
...unless they want the government to give them back the coal mining jobs that are no longer economically viable.
Because the government tried its very best to destroy those jobs. Did you forget that?
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Old 6th December 2017, 07:30 PM   #37
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Another Clinton-Trump divide: High-output America vs low-output America

Quote:
Our observation: The less-than-500 counties that Hillary Clinton carried nationwide encompassed a massive 64 percent of America’s economic activity as measured by total output in 2015. By contrast, the more-than-2,600 counties that Donald Trump won generated just 36 percent of the country’s output—just a little more than one-third of the nation’s economic activity.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...utput-america/
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Old 6th December 2017, 07:34 PM   #38
plague311
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because the government automation tried its very best to destroyed those jobs. Did you forget that?
FTFY. Seems like you don't remember things well.
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Old 6th December 2017, 07:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
FTFY. Seems like you don't remember things well.
You really don’t remember your president telling the country he was going to end coal fired power plants?

You don’t remember your party’s nominated **** saying she was going to end coal mining jobs?
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Old 6th December 2017, 08:45 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You don’t remember your party’s nominated **** saying she was going to end coal mining jobs?
I don't remember it, because it never happened. She actually said that we, as in Society, were going to end coal mining jobs, and that meant that coal miners needed help to be retrained, but conservative with their selective editing like to forget that.

Here's the whole quote....

Quote:
Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

So whether it's coal country or Indian country or poor urban areas, there is a lot of poverty in America. We have gone backwards. We were moving in the right direction. In the '90s, more people were lifted out of poverty than any time in recent history.

Because of the terrible economic policies of the Bush administration, President Obama was left with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and people fell back into poverty because they lost jobs, they lost homes, they lost opportunities, and hope.

So I am passionate about this, which is why I have put forward specific plans about how we incentivize more jobs, more investment in poor communities, and put people to work.
It's quite clear that when she says "we", and "our" and "us", that she's speaking of the America People. She's not saying that she had an economic problem, or that miners worked to power her home and factories, no, that "we" id the entire country, and the same when she says that "we" will put coal miners out of work. She's saying that the Country will do it, that Society is doing it because they are turning away from coal, and because of that she is working to come up with a replacement.

Of course that doesn't play well to conservatives, so better to just lie about what she said.
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