New (?) film of gash in WTC7 - Page 6

FFTR · 19th April 2020, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Miragememories

If not for 9/11, and as a consequence, the extraordinary powers that congress subsequently provided the Bush regime, there never would have been the necessary public and political support for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

I can't believe you question that obvious connection.

MM

and if 9/11 attack never happened, there would be no need to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Oystein · 19th April 2020, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by FFTR

and if 9/11 attack never happened, there would be no need to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Huh? How old are you? If you were an adult in August 2001, you should have known that a military confrontation with Iraq was very much in the air then. It was definitely something that many ind an near the Bush administration wanted, they just didn't have a path yet to the "large" solution that eventually worked out because 9/11 delivered the public support.

Afghanistan is a rather different matter. In terms of "war on drugs", the USA was happy with the Taliban, and in terms of "access to central Asian oil and gas", negotiations were ongoing and promising. The Arabs in Afghanistan weren't really much friends with the Taliban, and so it was widely thought that the occasional surgical hit on AQ training camps would, for the time being, be enough to keep OBL at bay. The Taliban would probably not have minded much if OBL had eventually been assassinated by the CIA or ISI.

But boy are we off-topic in this necro-thread!

ozeco41 · 19th April 2020, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

But boy are we off-topic in this necro-thread!

Yes. But it is a neat, concise and probably necessary summary.

FFTR · 20th April 2020, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Oystein

Huh? How old are you? If you were an adult in August 2001, you should have known that a military confrontation with Iraq was very much in the air then. It was definitely something that many ind an near the Bush administration wanted, they just didn't have a path yet to the "large" solution that eventually worked out because 9/11 delivered the public support.

Afghanistan is a rather different matter. In terms of "war on drugs", the USA was happy with the Taliban, and in terms of "access to central Asian oil and gas", negotiations were ongoing and promising. The Arabs in Afghanistan weren't really much friends with the Taliban, and so it was widely thought that the occasional surgical hit on AQ training camps would, for the time being, be enough to keep OBL at bay. The Taliban would probably not have minded much if OBL had eventually been assassinated by the CIA or ISI.

But boy are we off-topic in this necro-thread!

Was very much an adult in 2001. Nearing the end of my work career. I was replying to MM comment.

I don't buy the conspiracy that the govt did 9/11 so Bush could go to war in Iraq.

Oystein · 20th April 2020, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by FFTR

Was very much an adult in 2001. Nearing the end of my work career. I was replying to MM comment.

I don't buy the conspiracy that the govt did 9/11 so Bush could go to war in Iraq.

I don't buy it, either. I was replying to your comment that "if 9/11 attack never happened, there would be no need to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq": Probably true wrt Afghanistan, surely not true wrt to Iraq, at least in the eyes of many "hawks" in US politics. Suspicions of Saddam having or craving WMD were all the rage, military action WAS ongoing all the time with frequent bouts of hot fire, and certainly many high-ranking members of the new Bush administration envisaged the need to go to war in Iraq even before 9/11

I even agree with MM: "If not for 9/11 ... there never would have been the necessary public and political support for the [invasion] of ... Iraq."

9/11 delivered Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Armitage etc a much welcome excuse to turn their pet project into sweeping reality.

JSanderO · 20th April 2020, 12:56 PM

Unless there is some very good like to be economic reason... why does the USA care about other countries? It doesn't seem to get excited about human rights abuses, poverty, and natural disasters around the globe... it does seem to be keen on things like oil, cheap labor, natural resources...

Americans don't care about Afghanistan and can't find it nor Iraq on a map... Why would they go off to die there?

Axxman300 · 20th April 2020, 04:18 PM

Well...except for Kosovo and Somalia...

Cosmic Yak · 21st April 2020, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by JSanderO

Unless there is some very good like to be economic reason... why does the USA care about other countries? It doesn't seem to get excited about human rights abuses, poverty, and natural disasters around the globe... it does seem to be keen on things like oil, cheap labor, natural resources...

Americans don't care about Afghanistan and can't find it nor Iraq on a map... Why would they go off to die there?

Which of these did America get from Iraq and Afghanistan?

Axxman300 · 21st April 2020, 09:19 AM

Rugs, Afghanistan was all about cheap access to rugs. Skunkworks is testing flying carpets out at Groom Lake even as we speak.

bknight · 21st April 2020, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Rugs, Afghanistan was all about cheap access to rugs. Skunkworks is testing flying carpets out at Groom Lake even as we speak.

Absolutely ridiculous, they perfected them in the 90's from the 49 crash at Roswell.

19th April 2020, 11:44 AM	#201
FFTR Scholar Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 83	Originally Posted by Miragememories If not for 9/11, and as a consequence, the extraordinary powers that congress subsequently provided the Bush regime, there never would have been the necessary public and political support for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. I can't believe you question that obvious connection. MM and if 9/11 attack never happened, there would be no need to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
FFTR Scholar Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 83

19th April 2020, 12:41 PM	#202
Oystein Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17,034	Originally Posted by FFTR and if 9/11 attack never happened, there would be no need to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Huh? How old are you? If you were an adult in August 2001, you should have known that a military confrontation with Iraq was very much in the air then. It was definitely something that many ind an near the Bush administration wanted, they just didn't have a path yet to the "large" solution that eventually worked out because 9/11 delivered the public support. Afghanistan is a rather different matter. In terms of "war on drugs", the USA was happy with the Taliban, and in terms of "access to central Asian oil and gas", negotiations were ongoing and promising. The Arabs in Afghanistan weren't really much friends with the Taliban, and so it was widely thought that the occasional surgical hit on AQ training camps would, for the time being, be enough to keep OBL at bay. The Taliban would probably not have minded much if OBL had eventually been assassinated by the CIA or ISI. But boy are we off-topic in this necro-thread!
	__________________ Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

20th April 2020, 11:45 AM	#204
FFTR Scholar Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 83	Originally Posted by Oystein Huh? How old are you? If you were an adult in August 2001, you should have known that a military confrontation with Iraq was very much in the air then. It was definitely something that many ind an near the Bush administration wanted, they just didn't have a path yet to the "large" solution that eventually worked out because 9/11 delivered the public support. Afghanistan is a rather different matter. In terms of "war on drugs", the USA was happy with the Taliban, and in terms of "access to central Asian oil and gas", negotiations were ongoing and promising. The Arabs in Afghanistan weren't really much friends with the Taliban, and so it was widely thought that the occasional surgical hit on AQ training camps would, for the time being, be enough to keep OBL at bay. The Taliban would probably not have minded much if OBL had eventually been assassinated by the CIA or ISI. But boy are we off-topic in this necro-thread! Was very much an adult in 2001. Nearing the end of my work career. I was replying to MM comment. I don't buy the conspiracy that the govt did 9/11 so Bush could go to war in Iraq.
FFTR Scholar Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 83

20th April 2020, 12:08 PM	#205
Oystein Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17,034	Originally Posted by FFTR Was very much an adult in 2001. Nearing the end of my work career. I was replying to MM comment. I don't buy the conspiracy that the govt did 9/11 so Bush could go to war in Iraq. I don't buy it, either. I was replying to your comment that "if 9/11 attack never happened, there would be no need to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq": Probably true wrt Afghanistan, surely not true wrt to Iraq, at least in the eyes of many "hawks" in US politics. Suspicions of Saddam having or craving WMD were all the rage, military action WAS ongoing all the time with frequent bouts of hot fire, and certainly many high-ranking members of the new Bush administration envisaged the need to go to war in Iraq even before 9/11 I even agree with MM: "If not for 9/11 ... there never would have been the necessary public and political support for the [invasion] of ... Iraq." 9/11 delivered Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Armitage etc a much welcome excuse to turn their pet project into sweeping reality.
	__________________ Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

20th April 2020, 12:56 PM	#206
JSanderO Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: nyc Posts: 3,089	Unless there is some very good like to be economic reason... why does the USA care about other countries? It doesn't seem to get excited about human rights abuses, poverty, and natural disasters around the globe... it does seem to be keen on things like oil, cheap labor, natural resources... Americans don't care about Afghanistan and can't find it nor Iraq on a map... Why would they go off to die there?
	__________________ So many idiots and so little time.

19th April 2020, 02:24 PM	#203
ozeco41 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 7,564	Originally Posted by Oystein But boy are we off-topic in this necro-thread! Yes. But it is a neat, concise and probably necessary summary.

20th April 2020, 04:18 PM	#207
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,959	Well...except for Kosovo and Somalia...
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

21st April 2020, 03:50 AM	#208
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 4,025	Originally Posted by JSanderO Unless there is some very good like to be economic reason... why does the USA care about other countries? It doesn't seem to get excited about human rights abuses, poverty, and natural disasters around the globe... it does seem to be keen on things like oil, cheap labor, natural resources... Americans don't care about Afghanistan and can't find it nor Iraq on a map... Why would they go off to die there? Which of these did America get from Iraq and Afghanistan?
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

21st April 2020, 09:19 AM	#209
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,959	Rugs, Afghanistan was all about cheap access to rugs. Skunkworks is testing flying carpets out at Groom Lake even as we speak.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

21st April 2020, 10:08 AM	#210
bknight Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,380	Originally Posted by Axxman300 Rugs, Afghanistan was all about cheap access to rugs. Skunkworks is testing flying carpets out at Groom Lake even as we speak. Absolutely ridiculous, they perfected them in the 90's from the 49 crash at Roswell.