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Old 20th August 2020, 01:38 PM   #1
geggy
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"why didn't they blame it on Iraq?"

They did on 9/12, at least former CIA James Woosley did but reporters including Jennings were pushing back the theory. They also attempted to tie in Iraq to anthrax attacks shortly thereafter but were unsuccesful.

http://youtu.be/37tNdsfdTBo
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:41 PM   #2
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At 1 pm on 9/11, only 2 hours after the wtc collapse

Dan Rather: What perspective can you give us? I mean, there have been these repeated reports that, well, yes, Osama Bin Laden, but some think he's been over-emphasized as, as responsible for these kinds of events. I know many intelligence, uh, people at very high levels who say, listen, you can't have these kinds of attacks without having some state, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, somebody involved. Put that into perspective for us.

Jerome Hauer: Yeah, well I'm not sure I agree that, umm, this is necessarily state-sponsored. Umm, it, as I mentioned earlier, certainly has, umm, the, uh, fingerprints of somebody like Bin Laden
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Old 20th August 2020, 02:30 PM   #3
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Cool story bro
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Old 20th August 2020, 08:46 PM   #4
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a lot of "or what"

Originally Posted by geggy View Post
They did on 9/12, at least former CIA James Woosley did but reporters including Jennings were pushing back the theory. They also attempted to tie in Iraq to anthrax attacks shortly thereafter but were unsuccesful.

http://youtu.be/37tNdsfdTBo
Oh, I got this, because Iraq did not do it...

19 terrorists from UBL demented kill Americans goal did it.

Darn, you wasted nearly 20 years with no clue who did 9/11, when most who paid attention suspected UBL, and we were right - you are still clueless, or what?
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Old 20th August 2020, 08:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
At 1 pm on 9/11, only 2 hours after the wtc collapse

Dan Rather: What perspective can you give us? I mean, there have been these repeated reports that, well, yes, Osama Bin Laden, but some think he's been over-emphasized as, as responsible for these kinds of events. I know many intelligence, uh, people at very high levels who say, listen, you can't have these kinds of attacks without having some state, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, somebody involved. Put that into perspective for us.

Jerome Hauer: Yeah, well I'm not sure I agree that, umm, this is necessarily state-sponsored. Umm, it, as I mentioned earlier, certainly has, umm, the, uh, fingerprints of somebody like Bin Laden
And? Only in retrospect you find this stuff suspicious, but this is standard informed speculation in the immediate aftermath of a major event. Osama bin Laden had a hand in many major attacks elsewhere.
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Old 20th August 2020, 08:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
At 1 pm on 9/11, only 2 hours after the wtc collapse

Dan Rather: What perspective can you give us? I mean, there have been these repeated reports that, well, yes, Osama Bin Laden, but some think he's been over-emphasized as, as responsible for these kinds of events. I know many intelligence, uh, people at very high levels who say, listen, you can't have these kinds of attacks without having some state, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, somebody involved. Put that into perspective for us.

Jerome Hauer: Yeah, well I'm not sure I agree that, umm, this is necessarily state-sponsored. Umm, it, as I mentioned earlier, certainly has, umm, the, uh, fingerprints of somebody like Bin Laden
Why would a state sponsor it? This was a low tech no brain needed end run. Fake hijackings, kill pilots, crash planes. This was so simple it worked... for about an hour, then it was over, solved, figured out and only scored 75 percent, that is failure.
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Old 20th August 2020, 10:50 PM   #7
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There's Bettridges Law of Headlines and Merton's Law of Unexpected Consequences

Npw, I present you Smartcooky's Law of Youtube Evidence

"Crackpot Youtube videos are not evidence"
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Old 21st August 2020, 01:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
At 1 pm on 9/11, only 2 hours after the wtc collapse

Dan Rather: What perspective can you give us? I mean, there have been these repeated reports that, well, yes, Osama Bin Laden, but some think he's been over-emphasized as, as responsible for these kinds of events. I know many intelligence, uh, people at very high levels who say, listen, you can't have these kinds of attacks without having some state, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, somebody involved. Put that into perspective for us.

Jerome Hauer: Yeah, well I'm not sure I agree that, umm, this is necessarily state-sponsored. Umm, it, as I mentioned earlier, certainly has, umm, the, uh, fingerprints of somebody like Bin Laden
It's almost as if the major news media didn't immediately know who was responsible for the attacks and were trying to work it out, isn't it? It seems like you're trying to argue that lack of foreknowledge proves the conspiracy. Is this another heads-I-win-tails-you-lose argument, where both an event and the absence of an event equally prove the conspiracy?

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Old 21st August 2020, 10:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There's Bettridges Law of Headlines and Merton's Law of Unexpected Consequences

Npw, I present you Smartcooky's Law of Youtube Evidence

"Crackpot Youtube videos are not evidence"
FTFY. Produced digital media is of little real value unless it is a documented/unaltered presentation of historical events.
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Old 21st August 2020, 11:12 AM   #10
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Let's be clear: The Iraq War was a direct result of a branch of 911-Truth believing that, although ALL THE EVIDENCE COMBINED WITH THE CONFESSIONS OF SENIOR AL QAEDA LEADERSHIP PROVED AL QAEDA HAD PERFORMED THE ATTACKS - Bush Administration Truthers insisted that Saddam Hussein was behind it.

911 Truth is evil.
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Old 21st August 2020, 11:28 AM   #11
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"They" being a one former CIA employee, apparently. Are you trying to falsify Gravy's inflationary model of conspiracy theories?
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Old 21st August 2020, 01:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
At 1 pm on 9/11, only 2 hours after the wtc collapse

Dan Rather: What perspective can you give us? I mean, there have been these repeated reports that, well, yes, Osama Bin Laden, but some think he's been over-emphasized as, as responsible for these kinds of events. I know many intelligence, uh, people at very high levels who say, listen, you can't have these kinds of attacks without having some state, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, somebody involved. Put that into perspective for us.

Jerome Hauer: Yeah, well I'm not sure I agree that, umm, this is necessarily state-sponsored. Umm, it, as I mentioned earlier, certainly has, umm, the, uh, fingerprints of somebody like Bin Laden
There were 19 Hijackers, 15 were Saudi Arabian, two from the United Arab Emirates, one Egyptian and one Lebanese. There was likely a 20th hijacker, Mohammed al Kahtani, who was also Saudi Arabian. However NONE of this was known in the first few days after 9/11. There was mayhem, there was very little information, and masses of speculation. It was at least 24 hours before the FBI managed to get an idea as to the hijackers' identities, and three days before their names were published.

Now, when you have a terrorist attack of that magnitude, with very little hard information and huge amounts of speculation, and you couple that with the fact that Iraq and the US had already fought a war over Iraq's invasion of Kuwait ten years earlier, and these two countries had been antagonistic towards each other for all of that ten years, then its not surprising that Iraq's name would come up. During the early 1990's, Iraqi National Accord insurgents, a group of Iraqi dissidents led by Iyad Allawi, carried out a series of sabotage and bombing attacks. The CIA was deeply involved in those attacks, likely supplying the explosives and equipment they used. They were also involved in a 1996 coup against Saddam that failed.

Then in 1998, less than two years before the 9/11 attacks, the US Congress passed the "Iraq Liberation Act.", making regime change in Iraq official US Government policy - that effectively made Saddam Hussein an enemy of the US (if he wasn't already). When 9/11 happened, Iraq and Saddam were in a group of obvious prime suspects just on circumstances alone. That is not to say I believe they had anything to do with it, its just that at that time, it looked bad for Iraq. Subsequent evidence, however clearly showed that Iraq was not involved, but the US Government had gone all-in by then, and so they began to fake the evidence of Iraq's alleged WMD stockpiles, manufacturing and deployment and capabilities in order to justify the 2003 invasion.
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Old 21st August 2020, 03:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Then in 1998, less than two years before the 9/11 attacks, the US Congress passed the "Iraq Liberation Act.", making regime change in Iraq official US Government policy - that effectively made Saddam Hussein an enemy of the US (if he wasn't already). When 9/11 happened, Iraq and Saddam were in a group of obvious prime suspects just on circumstances alone.
Not just suspects, patsies. 9/11 was a gift to the Bush administration because it gave them an excuse to attack Iraq. This is probably the initial reason for speculation that it might have been an 'inside job', which became the 9/11 truther movement.
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Old 21st August 2020, 04:20 PM   #14
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January through August, 2001: CIA and FBI track threat by Al Qaeda against CONUS while screwed each other over. In August the White House is briefed about an undefined attack on the US.

January through August: Foreign Intelligence services and Arab news outlets receive information directly from Al Qaeda, or their financiers about plans to strike the US.

May, 2001: All US military installations close public access due to potential terrorist threat.

July, 2001: US State Department issues a travel warning for the Mediterranean region citing a threat by Al Qaeda to hijack airliners. The travel warning expired on September 1, 2001.

September 11, 2001: 19 Al Qaeda operatives hijacl 4 commercial jetliners, flying three successfully into targets in NYC and Washington D.C. with the fourth crashing during passenger revolt.

September 12 or 13, 2001: SecDef Donal Rumsfeld tells Richard Clarke and George Tenent to draw up plans to invade Iraq even after he has been briefed that the hijackers were all known Al Qaeda operatives.

That's it. That's 911 and the road to Iraq in a nutshell.
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Old 21st August 2020, 05:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not just suspects, patsies. 9/11 was a gift to the Bush administration because it gave them an excuse to attack Iraq. This is probably the initial reason for speculation that it might have been an 'inside job', which became the 9/11 truther movement.
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
January through August, 2001: CIA and FBI track threat by Al Qaeda against CONUS while screwed each other over. In August the White House is briefed about an undefined attack on the US.

January through August: Foreign Intelligence services and Arab news outlets receive information directly from Al Qaeda, or their financiers about plans to strike the US.

May, 2001: All US military installations close public access due to potential terrorist threat.

July, 2001: US State Department issues a travel warning for the Mediterranean region citing a threat by Al Qaeda to hijack airliners. The travel warning expired on September 1, 2001.

September 11, 2001: 19 Al Qaeda operatives hijacl 4 commercial jetliners, flying three successfully into targets in NYC and Washington D.C. with the fourth crashing during passenger revolt.

September 12 or 13, 2001: SecDef Donal Rumsfeld tells Richard Clarke and George Tenent to draw up plans to invade Iraq even after he has been briefed that the hijackers were all known Al Qaeda operatives.

That's it. That's 911 and the road to Iraq in a nutshell.
Yup, this is one of the main "Truths" about 9/11 being suspicious - not the attack itself, but the way Dubya/Rumsfeld used it as an excuse to invade Iraq to carry out their declared objectives under the Iraq Liberation Act.

Another "Truth" is that none of it had to happen. If the US security agencies hadn't been so incompetent in ignoring the warning signs, and managed to foil the plot, the fact that it had even been planned and attempted would have been used by Dubya/Rumsfeld to declare Iraq a clear and present danger to the US, and very likely, they would have invaded Iraq anyway!
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Old 21st August 2020, 08:26 PM   #16
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Also, UBL was hard to find, whereas Iraq was easy to find!
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Old 21st August 2020, 11:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not just suspects, patsies. 9/11 was a gift to the Bush administration because it gave them an excuse to attack Iraq. This is probably the initial reason for speculation that it might have been an 'inside job', which became the 9/11 truther movement.
Agreed, but with one caveat: This, I think, was one reason for the birth of the Truther movement.
Assertions that "the Jews did it" were circulating from the very start. The Saudi Defence Minister (IIRC) phoned Bush on the 12th to tell him this very thing.
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Old 22nd August 2020, 02:09 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng View Post
Also, UBL was hard to find, whereas Iraq was easy to find!

Not to mention they were connected...

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Old 22nd August 2020, 10:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Agreed, but with one caveat: This, I think, was one reason for the birth of the Truther movement.
Assertions that "the Jews did it" were circulating from the very start. The Saudi Defence Minister (IIRC) phoned Bush on the 12th to tell him this very thing.
Gee, wonder why a Saudi official would be so keen to blame 9/11 on the Jews!

“Those 15 ‘Saudis‘ on the passenger manifests? Must have been Mossad operatives trying to
embarrass the Kingdom!”

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Old 23rd August 2020, 12:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Gee, wonder why a Saudi official would be so keen to blame 9/11 on the Jews!
Yep, Its a stumper alright
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Old 23rd August 2020, 10:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Agreed, but with one caveat: This, I think, was one reason for the birth of the Truther movement.
Assertions that "the Jews did it" were circulating from the very start. The Saudi Defence Minister (IIRC) phoned Bush on the 12th to tell him this very thing.
Some conspiratorialists blame everything on the Jews. But that wasn't the main thrust of this CT.

9/11 conspiracy theories
Quote:
The most prominent conspiracy theory is that the collapse of the Twin Towers and 7 World Trade Center were the result of controlled demolitions rather than structural failure due to impact and fire. Another prominent belief is that the Pentagon was hit by a missile launched by elements from inside the U.S. government, or that a commercial airliner was allowed to do so via an effective stand-down of the American military. Possible motives claimed by conspiracy theorists for such actions include justifying the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq (even though the U.S. government concluded Iraq was not involved in the attacks) to advance their geostrategic interests, such as plans to construct a natural gas pipeline through Afghanistan. Other conspiracy theories revolve around authorities having advance knowledge of the attacks and deliberately ignoring or assisting the attackers.
So 9/11 CT's are mostly about the US government, not 'the Jews'. A few kooks always believed that the government was infiltrated with Jews, but very few at that time thought that Bush was one of them. However his eagerness to attack Iraq was well known, so a CT involving that easily gained traction - even among people who were not hard-core conspiratorialists. For most, the Jewish angle was an irrelevant distraction.
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Old 24th August 2020, 08:59 AM   #22
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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, nor was its 2003 invasion justifiable. However that doesn’t mean that the country didn’t have ties to Al Qaeda.

Copy and pasted from the 9/11 Commission Report Chapter 2 Section 5: Al Qaeda’s renewal in Afghanistan
Quote:
There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response. According to one report, Saddam Hussein's efforts at this time to rebuild relations with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern regimes led him to stay clear of Bin Ladin.74

In mid-1998, the situation reversed; it was Iraq that reportedly took the initiative. In March 1998, after Bin Ladin's public fatwa against the United States, two al Qaeda members reportedly went to Iraq to meet with Iraqi intelligence. In July, an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then with Bin Ladin. Sources reported that one, or perhaps both, of these meetings was apparently arranged through Bin Ladin's Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis. In 1998, Iraq was under intensifying U.S. pressure, which culminated in a series of large air attacks in December.75

Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his aides may have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported strains with the Taliban. According to the reporting, Iraqi officials offered Bin Ladin a safe haven in Iraq. Bin Ladin declined, apparently judging that his circumstances in Afghanistan remained more favorable than the Iraqi alternative. The reports describe friendly contacts and indicate some common themes in both sides' hatred of the United States. But to date we have seen no evidence that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship. Nor have we seen evidence indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.76

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Old 24th August 2020, 09:19 AM   #23
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As best I understand it, the overall conceptual framework was something like this:

- The entire ME region is riddled with terrorist organizations, and governments too corrupt or too weak (or too both) to shut them down.

- The terrorists are getting stronger and bolder, and 9-11 is an indicator of how much worse it's going to get if somebody doesn't do something.

- Realistically, the only options for "do something" are either (a) let it ride, or (b) hit the Reset Button on the entire region.

- Letting it ride is what got us to this point, so maybe it's time for the Reset Button.

- The Reset Button means a series of short, sharp conflicts, destroying some corrupt regimes and putting others on notice.

- Hopefully the destroyed regimes will be replaced by regimes less corrupt and pro-terrorist, but at the very least if their ability to export terrorism is significantly diminished it doesn't really matter too much where the new regime stands.

- After all, if the new regime turns out to be as bad as the old regime, the Reset Button can be pressed again.

- The endgame is obviously Iran, but where to begin?

- Egypt and Saudi Arabia have powerful friendly factions in their government, and act as stabilizing forces in the region. Even though they also have corrupt factions that promote terrorism and destabilization, it's probably best to put them on notice by starting somewhere else instead.

- Iraq, for various reasons, is a better starting point for all of this, but requires a compelling "international law" justification for hitting them with the Reset Button.

- The rest is history.

So. To answer geggy's question: They didn't blame Iraq for 9-11 because going after Iraq was about trying to address the larger regional context in which Al Qaeda grew and thrived. The actual target of all this was Iran.

Personally I think there's bits and pieces of a good strategy in there, but it needed to be a lot more ruthless, and therefore probably not such a good strategy after all. What they tried to do in Iraq, not just destruction of the Hussein regime but also nation-building and peacemaking between rival factions, ended up trying to be too many things for too many different interest groups. The entire Iraq expedition should probably have boiled down to two simple, clear messages, both aimed at Iran: Rubble doesn't make trouble; and You're next.
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Old 24th August 2020, 10:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As best I understand it, the overall conceptual framework was something like this:

- The entire ME region is riddled with terrorist organizations, and governments too corrupt or too weak (or too both) to shut them down.

- The terrorists are getting stronger and bolder, and 9-11 is an indicator of how much worse it's going to get if somebody doesn't do something.

- Realistically, the only options for "do something" are either (a) let it ride, or (b) hit the Reset Button on the entire region.

- Letting it ride is what got us to this point, so maybe it's time for the Reset Button.

- The Reset Button means a series of short, sharp conflicts, destroying some corrupt regimes and putting others on notice.

- Hopefully the destroyed regimes will be replaced by regimes less corrupt and pro-terrorist, but at the very least if their ability to export terrorism is significantly diminished it doesn't really matter too much where the new regime stands.

- After all, if the new regime turns out to be as bad as the old regime, the Reset Button can be pressed again.

- The endgame is obviously Iran, but where to begin?

- Egypt and Saudi Arabia have powerful friendly factions in their government, and act as stabilizing forces in the region. Even though they also have corrupt factions that promote terrorism and destabilization, it's probably best to put them on notice by starting somewhere else instead.

- Iraq, for various reasons, is a better starting point for all of this, but requires a compelling "international law" justification for hitting them with the Reset Button.

- The rest is history.

So. To answer geggy's question: They didn't blame Iraq for 9-11 because going after Iraq was about trying to address the larger regional context in which Al Qaeda grew and thrived. The actual target of all this was Iran.

Personally I think there's bits and pieces of a good strategy in there, but it needed to be a lot more ruthless, and therefore probably not such a good strategy after all. What they tried to do in Iraq, not just destruction of the Hussein regime but also nation-building and peacemaking between rival factions, ended up trying to be too many things for too many different interest groups. The entire Iraq expedition should probably have boiled down to two simple, clear messages, both aimed at Iran: Rubble doesn't make trouble; and You're next.
Yes, the problem with the Iraq War was that it was not ruthless enough and that we didn’t go after Iran. People love it when their countries are destroyed by superpowers. Definitely not a breeding ground for anger and instability at all - up to and including terrorism.

Famously, countries without functioning governments in the Middle East, Africa, and Central Asia haven’t become safe havens for terrorists.



PS: Egypt and Saudi Arabia have in their own ways contributed more to the rise and spread of global jihadism than any other countries in the Middle East. Friendly neighborhood autocrats.

Also, the “reset button” cannot be pushed again. And even if it could, good luck convincing the American people that it’s worth sending even more men and women to die in these forever wars. Sunk cost fallacy.

Last edited by Allen773; 24th August 2020 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 26th August 2020, 07:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Also, the “reset button” cannot be pushed again. And even if it could, good luck convincing the American people that it’s worth sending even more men and women to die in these forever wars. Sunk cost fallacy.
Sure it can. Nuke it from orbit, no loss of American lives. The problem is that it's not a socially acceptable answer. If you subscribe to the notion that the whole region is irredeemably corrupt, it is a solution. Problem is you can't give warnings. One night you are the Baltimore Colts and the next morning you are in Indy.
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Old 26th August 2020, 02:26 PM   #26
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I'll bottom line as best I can...

Iraq was a clearing house and sanctuary for a number of terrorist groups. Their reasoning was that helping these groups out kept them from being a target down the road. [Iraq is not alone in using this strategy, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, and others interact/cover for groups on a case by case basis. This is about survival.]

This was done in large part because Iran became an official sponsor of terrorist groups, many of which they initiated. The anti-Western/anti-Israel rhetoric is secondary to the spread of the Shiite branch of Islam over the Sunni sect. Because it is religion-based their groups are ruthless.

The first known instance of an Iraqi backed terrorist action was the 1980 siege of the Iranian Embassy at Princes's Gate by the Democratic Revolutionary Front for the Liberation of Arabistan (DRFLA). Over the years Saddam and his men learned from the mistakes of Islamic Jihad, and Libya's direct terrorist actions in Europe. Iraq remained in the shadows successfully up to their invasion of Kuwait in 1990. From then on it was open season.

In 2002 during the run up to the war Iraq was sponsoring suicide bomb attacks in Israel. These stopped immediately when Bush put Saddam on notice, and deployed the pre-invasion forces to Kuwait. After the invasion, US Special Forces found bomb-making schools hidden in residential areas where the Iraqi secret police taught how to make IEDs. By 2004 those bomb makers would begin to exact a heavy toll on US forces and civilians across Iraq.

The argument that the Iraq War was unnecessary is true, but only in its timing, and the reasoning given by the Bush Administration (which were all cherry-picked). The sad fact is that it was only a matter of time before Saddam did something bad enough to warrant a military response. The failure of the US of abandoning its principles of reactionary military response for that of initiating hostilities was the unpardonable mistake.

And yes, I'm saying the price of being America is having to take the first punch.

Because then we can unload with a clear conscience.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, but it was a pariah state.
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Old 28th August 2020, 06:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I'll bottom line as best I can...

Iraq was a clearing house and sanctuary for a number of terrorist groups. Their reasoning was that helping these groups out kept them from being a target down the road. [Iraq is not alone in using this strategy, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, and others interact/cover for groups on a case by case basis. This is about survival.]

This was done in large part because Iran became an official sponsor of terrorist groups, many of which they initiated. The anti-Western/anti-Israel rhetoric is secondary to the spread of the Shiite branch of Islam over the Sunni sect. Because it is religion-based their groups are ruthless.

The first known instance of an Iraqi backed terrorist action was the 1980 siege of the Iranian Embassy at Princes's Gate by the Democratic Revolutionary Front for the Liberation of Arabistan (DRFLA). Over the years Saddam and his men learned from the mistakes of Islamic Jihad, and Libya's direct terrorist actions in Europe. Iraq remained in the shadows successfully up to their invasion of Kuwait in 1990. From then on it was open season.

In 2002 during the run up to the war Iraq was sponsoring suicide bomb attacks in Israel. These stopped immediately when Bush put Saddam on notice, and deployed the pre-invasion forces to Kuwait. After the invasion, US Special Forces found bomb-making schools hidden in residential areas where the Iraqi secret police taught how to make IEDs. By 2004 those bomb makers would begin to exact a heavy toll on US forces and civilians across Iraq.

The argument that the Iraq War was unnecessary is true, but only in its timing, and the reasoning given by the Bush Administration (which were all cherry-picked). The sad fact is that it was only a matter of time before Saddam did something bad enough to warrant a military response. The failure of the US of abandoning its principles of reactionary military response for that of initiating hostilities was the unpardonable mistake.

And yes, I'm saying the price of being America is having to take the first punch.

Because then we can unload with a clear conscience.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, but it was a pariah state.

Phil Donahue sums it up in nine words
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/phil_donahue_380983
--Saddam was a bastard, but he was our bastard.--
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Old 28th August 2020, 12:11 PM   #28
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Phil Donahue sums it up in nine words
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/phil_donahue_380983
--Saddam was a bastard, but he was our bastard.--
He was everyone's bastard.

Iraq had:

Migs and Mirage fighters.

All of it's tanks and armor were Russian, or Chinese.

The USS Stark was struct by a French-made Exocet missile.

Most of their industrial equipment came from West Germany.

How about reading a hardbacked book sometime?
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Old 30th August 2020, 03:25 PM   #29
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Ultimately, Saddam Hussein was no one’s bastard - too erratic and delusional to be a reliable partner for anyone.

By the 1990s, he had managed to piss off all of his nominal friends and empower his mortal enemies - specifically, Iran, who, like Iraq, had also become enemies of the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies, but were (and are) much more sophisticated, patient, and strategically shrewd than the hotheaded, impulsive, reckless Saddam.

(Of course, it helps that, in terms of both military occupation and regime change Iran is a far more daunting challenge than Iraq ever was...).

Saddam’s undoing was that by 9/11, he ended up being the most isolated and most infamous to the American public of all of America’s designated Bad Guys, aside from Osama bin Laden. And when bin Laden quietly escaped into Pakistan in December 2001, it was only a matter of time before Dubya and Cheney would seize the initiative to settle the (their - our) score with Saddam.

Last edited by Allen773; 30th August 2020 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 8th September 2020, 05:16 AM   #30
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Paul Bremer and 1,700 of the employees of Marsh & McLennan had offices in the World Trade Center. Bremer's office was in the North Tower. In an interview with CNN after the September 11 attacks, he stated that their office was located "above where the second aircraft hit". On September 11, he was interviewed in Washington on WRC-TV at 12:30pm in-studio, just 2 hours after the WTC collapse. In the video he did not seem distraught that his office had been attacked and did not once mentioned it. He was also already pushing for military response in the middle east, including Iraq and Iran.

Interview video

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Old 8th September 2020, 05:50 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
In the video he did not seem distraught that his office had been attacked and did not once mentioned it.
I think he should apologise personally to you for failing to conform to your expectations as to how someone should react to shocking news. We see altogether too much of people reacting in non-stereotypical ways, almost as if they were actual individuals with different psychological makeups. The sooner we can revert to a world of totally predictable robots, the better. Or at least, I hope that's what you expected me to say.

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Old 8th September 2020, 09:07 AM   #32
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[johnny cochrane]If he ain't distraught, an inside job's been caught![/johnny cochrane]
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Old 8th September 2020, 10:51 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Paul Bremer and 1,700 of the employees of Marsh & McLennan had offices in the World Trade Center. Bremer's office was in the North Tower. In an interview with CNN after the September 11 attacks, he stated that their office was located "above where the second aircraft hit". On September 11, he was interviewed in Washington on WRC-TV at 12:30pm in-studio, just 2 hours after the WTC collapse. In the video he did not seem distraught that his office had been attacked and did not once mentioned it. He was also already pushing for military response in the middle east, including Iraq and Iran.

Interview video
Aircraft is a funny way of saying Rodan.
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Old 8th September 2020, 02:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
... He was also already pushing for military response in the middle east, including Iraq and Iran.

Interview video
I watched the entire video you linked, but could not find in it the bit where Bremer "was also already pushing for military response in the middle east, including Iraq and Iran".

Could you please provide time stamps and complete, verbatim quotes that support your claim?

I heard that Bremer lists some plausible suspects, among them Osama Bin Laden, Iran and Iraq.
I also heard him say that there has to be a 4-step approach: First, stabilize the situation, rescue survivors; Secondly, identify the perpetrators; Thirdly, a determined response against the perpetrators.

So while Bremer surely suspects middle eastern agency, he is clear that the culprit has not yet been identified yet - not as OBL, not as Iran, not as Iraq - and thus no military action is warranted against any of those at this time.

It's funny that you would totally misrepresent what Bremer said and thus write stuff quite different from what is true, while posing as a "Truther".
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Old 9th September 2020, 03:51 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Paul Bremer and 1,700 of the employees of Marsh & McLennan had offices in the World Trade Center. Bremer's office was in the North Tower. In an interview with CNN after the September 11 attacks, he stated that their office was located "above where the second aircraft hit". On September 11, he was interviewed in Washington on WRC-TV at 12:30pm in-studio, just 2 hours after the WTC collapse. In the video he did not seem distraught that his office had been attacked and did not once mentioned it. He was also already pushing for military response in the middle east, including Iraq and Iran.

Interview video
And this proves.....what, exactly?
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Old 9th September 2020, 03:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Aircraft is a funny way of saying Rodan missiles.
FTFY
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Old 9th September 2020, 03:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
And this proves.....what, exactly?
It proves that geggy doesn't actually watch any of the videos he links to!
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Old 9th September 2020, 06:31 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It proves that geggy doesn't actually watch any of the videos he links to!
LOL
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Old 10th September 2020, 03:44 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It proves that geggy doesn't actually watch any of the videos he links to!
And, as such, is the most convincing argument geggy has yet presented.
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