9/11: 20 years later - Page 6

Mark F · 3rd January 2021, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by ozeco41

And surely a waste of $330K to window dress it as credible science?

Not if the goal all along was window dressing as credible science. After all, just look at the target audience.

ozeco41 · 3rd January 2021, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mark F

Not if the goal all along was window dressing as credible science. After all, just look at the target audience.

I agree. Which is why I put it in comparative context with T Szamboti's Missing Jolt:

Originally Posted by ozeco41

Which [i.e. Hulsey's Report] was 10 years too late to have any impact. And only created a fraction of the impact that Tony Szamboti's "Missing Jolt" had.

I suggest the reality is that 9/11 debate has fundamentally shifted both in level of technical debate and the demography of those involved. With two effects:

First the T Szamboti "Missing Jolt" was a no cost paper which in its era fed into the state of poor understanding by both the emerging two sides of debate. The Hulsey reports could not have been plausible given the then state of debate. Even if Hulsey had studied Twin Towers and presented a similar style of report about Twin Towers collapses. In ~2009 nobody - either side - had enough understanding to rebut an academic report as accurately as we can do now in 2020 do with a WTC7 study. AND:

Second - a paper of the style of Missing Jolt - i.e. without the apparent trappings of academic credibility - would not have the same impact on the CURRENT audience. AE911 supporters see it as a credible document. And the engineering gobbledegook plus the graphic manipulations of the fraud "simulations" are designed to fool just those gullible supporters.

Hulsey's paper is de-facto targeted at gullible lay person AE911 supporters. "Missing Jolt" challenged and attracted debate by a higher grade of professional and semi-professional persons. That level of debunker opposition has not been fooled or even attracted to lengthy debate by the Hulsey Report which on the face is a far more serious effort than Missing Jolt.

Both were papers for their time and target audience. Neither would work in the other situation. . Who are we to judge whether Hulsey's paper was worth $330k?? My name is not R Gage.

Oystein · 3rd January 2021, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mark F

Not if the goal all along was window dressing as credible science. After all, just look at the target audience.

Originally Posted by ozeco41

...
I suggest the reality is that 9/11 debate has fundamentally shifted both in level of technical debate and the demography of those involved. ...

There is direct evidence for your suggestions in the form of how the AE911Truth "Petition" attracted new signatures from professionals on one hand, non-professionals on the other:

In 2020, the Petition grew by 4.07% in the "Architects&Engineers" part - the second-lowest value, after 3.95% in 2018
The "general population" ("gPop") part, in contrast, gained 15.8% - the highest growth rate since 2011.

As a result:
While in all the years from 2007 to 2019 the ratio gPop:A&E varied between 2.06 and 18.9, with an average of 8.3, in 2020 that ratio was 29.9 - almost 60% more than the previous high value.

So, the target audience in 2020 has been only 3.2% professionals - until then, it had been 11.5%.

Richard Gage has essentially given up on convincing the experts.

ozeco41 · 3rd January 2021, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

Richard Gage has essentially given up on convincing the experts.

I've noted the change subjectively and commented several times over recent years. Thanks for you complementary support in objective quantified form.

JSanderO · 22nd February 2021, 04:21 AM

I still receive emails from the "911 teleconference" run by Craig McKee. I do not call in but I read their email with agenda, minutes who was on the call. This group which includes all the usual suspects... who were down the rabbit hole in the past seems to be finding new depths... and is all in on conspiracies... such as covid 19 is a hoax/deep state operation.

What happened to critical thinking?

beachnut · 22nd February 2021, 12:14 PM

AE911T selling $1.25 DVDs for $7.50 to 20 bucks to "fellow activists".

An AE911T email...

Quote:

Friends and fellow activists,

Today is the final day to buy the DVD of SEVEN at significantly discounted rates!

Until midnight tonight, one DVD is just $15. Or go bulk and buy three DVDs for $30, six DVDs for $50, or 10 DVDs for $75 — and give them to the people you most want to educate about Building 7!

Don’t miss the chance to share this powerful documentary with every person you’ve been wanting to get through to!

wonder if Richard Gage is still taking 80k a year from his scam non-profit.

Airfix · 23rd February 2021, 04:32 AM

I'm amazed that people still fund those frauds.

Oystein · 23rd February 2021, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by beachnut

...
wonder if Richard Gage is still taking 80k a year from his scam non-profit.

Yup. In 2019, the latest year for which we have their tax statement, Gage paid himself US$ 86,867.
His deputy, Kelly David, moved up to his League, earning US$ 76,567

Those are up some 28% from the previous year.

bknight · 23rd February 2021, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Oystein

Yup. In 2019, the latest year for which we have their tax statement, Gage paid himself US$ 86,867.
His deputy, Kelly David, moved up to his League, earning US$ 76,567

Those are up some 28% from the previous year.

Sad indeed that scam artists flourish today.

beachnut · 24th February 2021, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

Yup. In 2019, the latest year for which we have their tax statement, Gage paid himself US$ 86,867.
His deputy, Kelly David, moved up to his League, earning US$ 76,567

Those are up some 28% from the previous year.

Plus the travel stuff... the non-profit I assume can buy his tickets to fly, his hotel rooms, and his meals around the world.

Athyrio · 1st March 2021, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by bknight

Sad indeed that scam artists flourish today.

It's the American way, no?

Steve · 3rd March 2021, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Athyrio

It's the American way, no?

Free enterprise.

Gord_in_Toronto · 4th March 2021, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Free enterprise.

Why? Has someone locked it up?

Steve · 4th March 2021, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Why? Has someone locked it up?

No. no, no! That is not what I meant at all. I was referring to enterprise that costs nothing....... or was I? Now I am so confused too.

The Common Potato · 5th March 2021, 01:52 PM

Free Willy!

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th March 2021, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by The Common Potato

Free Willy!

Keep your pants on. There are laws you know.

The Common Potato · 6th March 2021, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Keep your pants on. There are laws you know.

Free pants. Get your free pants here.

The Common Potato · 6th March 2021, 05:16 AM

Rush taught me everything I need to know about being a teenage rebel - 40 years ago.

The Common Potato · 6th March 2021, 06:05 AM

Don't forget to put your blue jeans on.

jhunter1163 · 13th March 2021, 06:36 AM

I see Richard Gage is still grifting, as he was when last I posted in this section several years ago.

As for my own 9/11 story, I am still with the woman I met in the chat room that day (coming up on 17 years married now). So there's that.

Myriad · 13th March 2021, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

As for my own 9/11 story, I am still with the woman I met in the chat room that day (coming up on 17 years married now). So there's that.

And that, I've always thought, is an amazing story. Completely understandable and believable (not much for a skeptic to object to) but wow, what a thing for ones life story to hinge upon.

My wife and I (coming up on 26 years) also had a one-chance first meeting, a random intersection in our paths that probably could never have happened otherwise. But ours wasn't set in motion by the biggest international news story in twenty years.

jhunter1163 · 13th March 2021, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

And that, I've always thought, is an amazing story. Completely understandable and believable (not much for a skeptic to object to) but wow, what a thing for ones life story to hinge upon.

My wife and I (coming up on 26 years) also had a one-chance first meeting, a random intersection in our paths that probably could never have happened otherwise. But ours wasn't set in motion by the biggest international news story in twenty years.

It was a defining day for me, for sure. And if I'd picked another chat room, the whole trajectory of my life over the last 20 years would have been completely different. I'm not a believer, but it's easy to see how someone who was could see the hand of some deity at work, in your case as well as mine.

3rd January 2021, 04:39 PM	#201
Mark F Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,741	Originally Posted by ozeco41 And surely a waste of $330K to window dress it as credible science? Not if the goal all along was window dressing as credible science. After all, just look at the target audience.
Mark F Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,741	__________________ So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts.

3rd January 2021, 07:13 PM	#203
Oystein Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17,039	Originally Posted by Mark F Not if the goal all along was window dressing as credible science. After all, just look at the target audience. Originally Posted by ozeco41 ... I suggest the reality is that 9/11 debate has fundamentally shifted both in level of technical debate and the demography of those involved. ... There is direct evidence for your suggestions in the form of how the AE911Truth "Petition" attracted new signatures from professionals on one hand, non-professionals on the other: In 2020, the Petition grew by 4.07% in the "Architects&Engineers" part - the second-lowest value, after 3.95% in 2018 The "general population" ("gPop") part, in contrast, gained 15.8% - the highest growth rate since 2011. As a result: While in all the years from 2007 to 2019 the ratio gPop:A&E varied between 2.06 and 18.9, with an average of 8.3, in 2020 that ratio was 29.9 - almost 60% more than the previous high value. So, the target audience in 2020 has been only 3.2% professionals - until then, it had been 11.5%. Richard Gage has essentially given up on convincing the experts.
	__________________ Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

22nd February 2021, 04:21 AM	#205
JSanderO Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: nyc Posts: 3,091	I still receive emails from the "911 teleconference" run by Craig McKee. I do not call in but I read their email with agenda, minutes who was on the call. This group which includes all the usual suspects... who were down the rabbit hole in the past seems to be finding new depths... and is all in on conspiracies... such as covid 19 is a hoax/deep state operation. What happened to critical thinking?
	__________________ So many idiots and so little time.

22nd February 2021, 12:14 PM	#206
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 25,852	AE911T selling $1.25 DVDs for $7.50 to 20 bucks to "fellow activists". An AE911T email... Quote: Friends and fellow activists, Today is the final day to buy the DVD of SEVEN at significantly discounted rates! Until midnight tonight, one DVD is just $15. Or go bulk and buy three DVDs for $30, six DVDs for $50, or 10 DVDs for $75 — and give them to the people you most want to educate about Building 7! Don’t miss the chance to share this powerful documentary with every person you’ve been wanting to get through to! wonder if Richard Gage is still taking 80k a year from his scam non-profit.
	__________________ "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232

23rd February 2021, 04:32 AM	#207
Airfix Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,030	I'm amazed that people still fund those frauds.
Airfix Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,030

3rd January 2021, 05:52 PM	#202
ozeco41 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 7,566	Originally Posted by Mark F Not if the goal all along was window dressing as credible science. After all, just look at the target audience. I agree. Which is why I put it in comparative context with T Szamboti's Missing Jolt: Originally Posted by ozeco41 Which [i.e. Hulsey's Report] was 10 years too late to have any impact. And only created a fraction of the impact that Tony Szamboti's "Missing Jolt" had. I suggest the reality is that 9/11 debate has fundamentally shifted both in level of technical debate and the demography of those involved. With two effects: First the T Szamboti "Missing Jolt" was a no cost paper which in its era fed into the state of poor understanding by both the emerging two sides of debate. The Hulsey reports could not have been plausible given the then state of debate. Even if Hulsey had studied Twin Towers and presented a similar style of report about Twin Towers collapses. In ~2009 nobody - either side - had enough understanding to rebut an academic report as accurately as we can do now in 2020 do with a WTC7 study. AND: Second - a paper of the style of Missing Jolt - i.e. without the apparent trappings of academic credibility - would not have the same impact on the CURRENT audience. AE911 supporters see it as a credible document. And the engineering gobbledegook plus the graphic manipulations of the fraud "simulations" are designed to fool just those gullible supporters. Hulsey's paper is de-facto targeted at gullible lay person AE911 supporters. "Missing Jolt" challenged and attracted debate by a higher grade of professional and semi-professional persons. That level of debunker opposition has not been fooled or even attracted to lengthy debate by the Hulsey Report which on the face is a far more serious effort than Missing Jolt. Both were papers for their time and target audience. Neither would work in the other situation. . Who are we to judge whether Hulsey's paper was worth $330k?? My name is not R Gage.

3rd January 2021, 07:28 PM	#204
ozeco41 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 7,566	Originally Posted by Oystein Richard Gage has essentially given up on convincing the experts. I've noted the change subjectively and commented several times over recent years. Thanks for you complementary support in objective quantified form.

23rd February 2021, 10:38 AM	#208
Oystein Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17,039	Originally Posted by beachnut ... wonder if Richard Gage is still taking 80k a year from his scam non-profit. Yup. In 2019, the latest year for which we have their tax statement, Gage paid himself US$ 86,867. His deputy, Kelly David, moved up to his League, earning US$ 76,567 Those are up some 28% from the previous year.
	__________________ Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) Last edited by Oystein; 23rd February 2021 at 10:40 AM.

23rd February 2021, 10:47 AM	#209
bknight Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,382	Originally Posted by Oystein Yup. In 2019, the latest year for which we have their tax statement, Gage paid himself US$ 86,867. His deputy, Kelly David, moved up to his League, earning US$ 76,567 Those are up some 28% from the previous year. Sad indeed that scam artists flourish today.

24th February 2021, 02:38 PM	#210
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 25,852	Originally Posted by Oystein Yup. In 2019, the latest year for which we have their tax statement, Gage paid himself US$ 86,867. His deputy, Kelly David, moved up to his League, earning US$ 76,567 Those are up some 28% from the previous year. Plus the travel stuff... the non-profit I assume can buy his tickets to fly, his hotel rooms, and his meals around the world.
	__________________ "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232

1st March 2021, 06:49 PM	#211
Athyrio Hipster Doofus Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nutsack, FL Posts: 2,197	Originally Posted by bknight Sad indeed that scam artists flourish today. It's the American way, no?
	__________________ Knowledge is good.... Emil Faber

3rd March 2021, 07:29 AM	#212
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,709	Originally Posted by Athyrio It's the American way, no? Free enterprise.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

4th March 2021, 07:47 AM	#213
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,627	Originally Posted by Steve Free enterprise. Why? Has someone locked it up?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

4th March 2021, 01:21 PM	#214
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,709	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Why? Has someone locked it up? No. no, no! That is not what I meant at all. I was referring to enterprise that costs nothing....... or was I? Now I am so confused too.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

5th March 2021, 01:52 PM	#215
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 410	Free Willy!

5th March 2021, 07:05 PM	#216
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,627	Originally Posted by The Common Potato Free Willy! Keep your pants on. There are laws you know.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

6th March 2021, 05:14 AM	#217
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 410	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Keep your pants on. There are laws you know. Free pants. Get your free pants here.

6th March 2021, 05:16 AM	#218
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 410	Rush taught me everything I need to know about being a teenage rebel - 40 years ago.

6th March 2021, 06:05 AM	#219
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 410	Don't forget to put your blue jeans on.

13th March 2021, 06:36 AM	#220
jhunter1163 beer-swilling semiliterate Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes. Posts: 25,322	I see Richard Gage is still grifting, as he was when last I posted in this section several years ago. As for my own 9/11 story, I am still with the woman I met in the chat room that day (coming up on 17 years married now). So there's that.
	__________________ A møøse ønce bit my sister

13th March 2021, 07:06 AM	#221
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,645	Originally Posted by jhunter1163 As for my own 9/11 story, I am still with the woman I met in the chat room that day (coming up on 17 years married now). So there's that. And that, I've always thought, is an amazing story. Completely understandable and believable (not much for a skeptic to object to) but wow, what a thing for ones life story to hinge upon. My wife and I (coming up on 26 years) also had a one-chance first meeting, a random intersection in our paths that probably could never have happened otherwise. But ours wasn't set in motion by the biggest international news story in twenty years.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...

13th March 2021, 10:19 AM	#222
jhunter1163 beer-swilling semiliterate Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes. Posts: 25,322	Originally Posted by Myriad And that, I've always thought, is an amazing story. Completely understandable and believable (not much for a skeptic to object to) but wow, what a thing for ones life story to hinge upon. My wife and I (coming up on 26 years) also had a one-chance first meeting, a random intersection in our paths that probably could never have happened otherwise. But ours wasn't set in motion by the biggest international news story in twenty years. It was a defining day for me, for sure. And if I'd picked another chat room, the whole trajectory of my life over the last 20 years would have been completely different. I'm not a believer, but it's easy to see how someone who was could see the hand of some deity at work, in your case as well as mine.
	__________________ A møøse ønce bit my sister