Merged: Covid-19 and Politics Part 3 / Vaccine Nationalism

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by The Don

Anything over 1.0 is AIUI

That's what I thought, but maybe Childlike Empress has a different definition she's using.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by The Don

Anything over 1.0 is AIUI

Yup. Which proves Zooterkin's point about understandig

ETA:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

That's what I thought, but maybe Childlike Empress has a different definition she's using.

In this case, R is the average number of people, each infected person infects. That is an exponential parameter. In fact when R is below 1, it's exponential decay, which we have seen in the UK from both the first peak, and this one.

[Captain_Swoop]

Appropriate that the government saying it's fine for all kids to go back to school falls more or less on the anniversary of them saying it's fine to go to the Cheltenham Festival.

[The Don]

It looks like Covid is going to exacerbate the UK's already severe inequality issues.

Quote:

Analysis by the Health Foundation has shown that even before the pandemic, people in the poorest tenth of the country were three times more likely to die prematurely than some in the richest tenth. The pattern emerging with Covid, the think-tank warned, was likely to increase that gap even further.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56162075

Not least because of issues of people not wanting to be, or being unable to be vaccinated.

Quote:

Alum Rock is an inner city suburb of Birmingham. It is deprived and ethnically diverse, with a large Pakistani community.

The area has seen high rates of infection and yet it has among the lowest number of people coming forward for vaccination. Just six in 10 of those aged over 80 have had the jab.

A few miles to the north is Sutton Four Oaks, an affluent area with detached houses and tree-lined streets. Infection rates have been three times lower in recent weeks, but close to 95% of over-80s have been vaccinated.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by The Don

It looks like Covid is going to exacerbate the UK's already severe inequality issues.
Quote:
Alum Rock is an inner city suburb of Birmingham. It is deprived and ethnically diverse, with a large Pakistani community.

The area has seen high rates of infection and yet it has among the lowest number of people coming forward for vaccination. Just six in 10 of those aged over 80 have had the jab.

A few miles to the north is Sutton Four Oaks, an affluent area with detached houses and tree-lined streets. Infection rates have been three times lower in recent weeks, but close to 95% of over-80s have been vaccinated.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56162075

Not least because of issues of people not wanting to be, or being unable to be vaccinated.

My ex-in-laws lived in Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield. It is a very silly analogy as it is like comparing Hampstead, say, with Hackney. Different demographic completely. There are many bungalow-style homes in Sutton Coldfield so ipso facto is not going to be filled with multi-generational families or all that many young families. It is a lovely area with the scenic woods nearby.

Looking at the poorest part of Birmingham - and deprivation is as bad as it's ever been, historically, I think 60% of the over 80's having been vaccinated is encouraging. (BTW Sutton Coldfield is not in Birmingham, it is classed as 'West Midlands' and, IIRC, used to be in Staffordshire.)

[Rolfe]

I wonder how long it will take the people in the demographic refusing the vaccine to realise that their friends and relations are still getting sick and dying, while people in the demographics with high vaccine uptake are generally not? And if they will ever actually make the connection?

We can't go on like this, we need a concerted effort to stamp out community transmission in these problem areas.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I wonder how long it will take the people in the demographic refusing the vaccine to realise that their friends and relations are still getting sick and dying, while people in the demographics with high vaccine uptake are generally not? And if they will ever actually make the connection?

We can't go on like this, we need a concerted effort to stamp out community transmission in these problem areas.

All I was saying is that it is no surprise that people in affluent areas do rather better than those who are not. To my mind it is an exaggerated comparison as if to say, 'look at all these Pakistanis' and stigmatising them.

Why not just compare one working class area with good health facilities with one where there is not?

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I wonder how long it will take the people in the demographic refusing the vaccine to realise that their friends and relations are still getting sick and dying, while people in the demographics with high vaccine uptake are generally not? And if they will ever actually make the connection?

Probably a very long time, if ever.

Part of the problem is a degree of isolation which means that they're not aware of the lower rates elsewhere and/or it will just feed into the "they're trying to kill us" narrative which underpins some of the reluctance to get vaccinated in the first place - a distrust of authority.

Originally Posted by Rolfe

We can't go on like this, we need a concerted effort to stamp out community transmission in these problem areas.

It's difficult. Being heavy-handed may just make things worse, whereas the softly-softly approach doesn't seem to be working too well either. I'm not sure what would persuade people in the South Wales valleys not to mix together in defiance of the social distancing guidelines.

[Rolfe]

Maybe we should ask the Australian government for some tips. Aussies aren't exactly famed for marching to the beat of authority, but they're managing.

[Captain_Swoop]

Covid: masks and tests not compulsory at English schools, says minister

Nick Gibb says he hopes most pupils and schools will choose to take protection measures
It will not be compulsory for school pupils to take Covid tests twice a week, nor wear face coverings in class, the schools minister Nick Gibb has confirmed.

But Gibb said he hoped most students would wear masks and volunteer to take tests twice a week in school, before being given home testing kits.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ools-nick-gibb

[Captain_Swoop]

Nigel Farage Supporters 'Least Likely To Take Up Covid Vaccine' Among Voters

Quote:

Political affiliation can be an indicator of vaccine hesitancy, a new study has found, with those who support Nigel Farage’s new party the least likely to take up the offer of a jab.

Only 53.7% of those planning to vote for Reform UK favour taking the vaccine, a two-wave study by Oxford University found.

This contrasts dramatically to over 90% for supporters of the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats, at 94.8%, 91.4% and 92.1% respectively, and 100% for those who intend to vote for the SNP.

People who did not know who they would vote for were less likely to take the vaccine at 82.6%, as were supporters of the Green Party at 77.4%.

The study found strong relationships between political attitudes and intention to accept the jab, with whether you voted for Brexit also appearing related to vaccine acceptance, according to Oxford researchers.

The study found that those who backed Remain were around 7% more willing to take the vaccine than those who backed Leave, or those who did not vote in the 2016 EU referendum.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b67259f893d5c7

[Filippo Lippi]

Dim bulbs

[Matthew Best]

Seen on Facebook:

Quote:

Send a rocket to Mars, get it to slow down from 20k mph to 2mph, land it and deploy a vehicle & helicopter and remote control it from earth. Cost. 3 billion quid.

UK Test & Trace. 26 billion quid. Doesn't work.

[Wudang]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Nigel Farage Supporters 'Least Likely To Take Up Covid Vaccine' Among Voters



https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b67259f893d5c7

I wonder how much of that is due to their choice of news sources.

[Captain_Swoop]

Nigel Farage Tweeted
Covid crisis in Dover this morning. One migrant boat with 12 on board and they all tested positive for the virus. Get a grip @pritipatel

Dunkirk has one of the highest Covid rates in France.
Cases have fallen all over Kent but they are now rising in the Dover area as migrant boats arrive with the virus.

Border Force are having to wear full PPE to protect themselves.
Why is this government importing Coronavirus?

We are paying the French Navy to escort migrants with Coronavirus into the UK whilst we are all told to stay at home. Outrageous.



Home Office Tweeted
@nigel_farage This is incorrect. None of these 12 people tested positive for Covid-19. All adults who arrived today have been tested for Covid-19

[Garrison]

So a few weeks back some people were raising doubts over the Astrazenica vaccine because Germany wouldn't approve it for over 65s? Seems they are now under pressure from their own experts to reverse that policy after new data from Scotland:

Covid vaccine: Germany urged to back AstraZeneca jab for over-65s

It's almost as if the vaccine was fine all along and certain parties were trying to invent a conspiracy theory...

[zooterkin]

From the local paper: Sonning woman has first dose of coronavirus vaccine

Quote:

A WOMAN from Sonning has become one of the latest to receive her first dose of the coronavirus vaccine.
...

Theresa May, who just happens to be a former Prime Minister and is also MP for Maidenhead, said: “I just had my first Covid-19 jab. It is safe, effective and painless”.

[Mr Fied]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Similarly here; I was at a gig on March 14th. The year before, the hall was packed with about 600 people, last year the place was busy but not full, and the expected guest, Kenney Jones, had decided not to attend because of the risk.

The Small Fakers at the 229?

Twas there meself.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Mr Fied

The Small Fakers at the 229?

Twas there meself.

The very same; you might have seen me if I wasn't being very careful. I was one of the blokes with cameras wandering through the crowd and popping up behind the band.

[Vixen]

It's all too beautiful.

[Puppycow]

Coronavirus: 11 test positive on New York rescue flight to Israel (The Jerusalem Post)

Quote:

Some ultra-Orthodox passengers on the flight allegedly bragged about forging documents to show that they were not positive for the coronavirus.

Quote:

At least 11 people tested positive for coronavirus Tuesday after arriving from a planned rescue flight for stranded Israelis originating in New York, according to a Ynet News report.
Upon arriving at Ben Gurion Airport, passengers on the El Al rescue flight were required to undergo mandatory testing, where it was discovered that 11 were infected with the coronavirus. According to the report, some ultra-Orthodox passengers on the flight also bragged about forging documents to show that they were not positive with the coronavirus.
After hearing the bragging, some passengers approached flight attendants to complain. The staff apparently said that there was nothing they could do regarding the forging of documents. Likewise, passengers speaking to Ynet also spoke of the fact that some ultra-Orthodox passengers refused to remain in their seats and prayed in groups without masks, which is against current aviation regulations.
Following the discovery of positive tests after the flight arrived, all passengers were informed by the Health Ministry that they would be required to enter isolation and be re-tested in the next few days. The Health Ministry also informed them that an investigation of the incident was being transferred to the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency).

[Captain_Swoop]

Health officials are trying to trace one person in England who has been infected with a concerning variant of coronavirus first found in Brazil.

They are one of six cases of the P1 variant found in the UK in February.

The person did not complete a test registration form so remains unidentified - prompting an appeal for anyone without a result from a test on 12 or 13 February to come forward.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56234302

[The Don]

People in Wales have different views of how well the Welsh government and the UK government have handled Covid.

Quote:

It suggests that seven in 10 (70%) people in Wales say the Cardiff government has dealt with things very or fairly well.

Two in five (41%) say the same about the Westminster government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-56194879

Although the outcomes may not have been that different, at least the messaging from the Welsh government has been more consistent and the Welsh government has been more prepared to implement restrictions and in less of a rush to lift them.

[The Don]

Covid is highlighting how chronically underfunded and under-resourced the NHS is:

Quote:

The NHS's "insufficient" critical care capacity has been laid bare by the pandemic, with the UK having one of the lowest number of beds per head in Europe, NHS Providers has said.

The group, which represents trusts in England, is calling for a review of the health service's capacity.

The UK has 7.3 critical care beds per 100,000 people, compared to Germany's 33.8 and the US's 34.3, analysis found.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56234898

All of which makes the NHS' results and outcomes all the more remarkable.

[Mr Fied]

Originally Posted by The Don

Covid is highlighting how chronically underfunded and under-resourced the NHS is:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56234898

All of which makes the NHS' results and outcomes all the more remarkable.

How can that be?

Surely we must be spending that extra £350m a week on the NHS by now?

[Captain_Swoop]

Brazilian variant arrived in UK 10th Feb, mystery person took test 12/13th Feb Serco takes 15 days to trace, fails and finally appeals on TV for person to come forward.

£22 billion

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Brazilian variant arrived in UK 10th Feb, mystery person took test 12/13th Feb Serco takes 15 days to trace, fails and finally appeals on TV for person to come forward.

£22 billion

Test and trace has excelled in its primary objective, to funnel public money into the pockets of the mates of prominent Tories

[Darat]

Originally Posted by The Don

Covid is highlighting how chronically underfunded and under-resourced the NHS is:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56234898

All of which makes the NHS' results and outcomes all the more remarkable.

And means we need to get it privatised as quickly as possible to get more money into the service - sorry not service, shareholders’ pockets - often get those two confused when looking at Tory policies.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Brazilian variant arrived in UK 10th Feb, mystery person took test 12/13th Feb Serco takes 15 days to trace, fails and finally appeals on TV for person to come forward.

£22 billion

What, even after spending their entire budget for the latest tracing equipment? I hear it's so good it can even trace who you'll eventually marry!

[Wudang]

https://news.sky.com/story/test-and-...-risk-12235392

Quote:

Data from hundreds of millions of check-ins by people who visited pubs, restaurants and hairdressers before lockdown was barely used by Test and Trace, according to a confidential report obtained by Sky News.
........


To make matters worse, when coronavirus data from venues was used, public health officials encouraged pubs and restaurants to contact customers directly - a breach of data protection law which could leave businesses facing legal action.

eta: More via this thread on twitter.



https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/s...366488576?s=20

Quote:

According to official figures, there have now been *over 100 million* check-ins using the contact tracing app So how many alerts have been sent about outbreaks at venues? T&T doesn't release this figure, but fortunately @russss
keeps count There've been... wait for it... 286

[Rolfe]

£22 billion, did you say?

[Airfix]

The fascist EU Commission has just stopped Italian made vaccines from being exported to Australia.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...ralia-12235848

So glad I voted leave.

What scummy behaviour.

[RolandRat]

"The British-Swedish drug manufacturer had failed to meet its EU contract commitments so the Italian government refused its request to export 250,000 doses from its Anagni plant near Rome."

What's the issue again?

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by RolandRat

"The British-Swedish drug manufacturer had failed to meet its EU contract commitments so the Italian government refused its request to export 250,000 doses from its Anagni plant near Rome."

What's the issue again?

Edited by Agatha:

Edited to remove personalisation

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by RolandRat

"The British-Swedish drug manufacturer had failed to meet its EU contract commitments so the Italian government refused its request to export 250,000 doses from its Anagni plant near Rome."

What's the issue again?

Times are tough everywhere. I'd rather everyone got a little now and kept getting more, than some get a lot and others get nothing.

I'm not sure how slipping production goals in the current situation is such a grave error that the Italians need to punish the Australians over it.

[Airfix]

Originally Posted by RolandRat

"The British-Swedish drug manufacturer had failed to meet its EU contract commitments so the Italian government refused its request to export 250,000 doses from its Anagni plant near Rome."

What's the issue again?

Well now they're being forced by fascists not to meet their Australia contract commitments either.

Does the word compromise not enter their vocabulary ?
Does the word share not enter their vocabulary ?

The EU messed up, that's not Australia's fault. IS IT ?

[Airfix]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Times are tough everywhere. I'd rather everyone got a little now and kept getting more, than some get a lot and others get nothing.

I'm not sure how slipping production goals in the current situation is such a grave error that the Italians need to punish the Australians over it.

Spot on.

[Captain_Swoop]

You are behind the times, it's getting another 15 billion!

£37bn Budget Small Print Reveals

Quote:

Boris Johnson’s controversial Test and Trace service is to get another £15bn in government cash, the small print of the Budget has confirmed.

The funding for 2021/22 comes on top of this year’s spending allocation of £22bn, taking the total bill for the controversial service to a huge £37bn over two years.

MPs said that the “eye-watering” sums should prompt ministers to do more to prove that the system, run by Tory peer Dido Harding, was giving taxpayers real value for money.

The figures emerged as the government revealed it was offering NHS staff just a 1% pay rise in the coming year, a move described by the nurses’ union as “pitiful”.

Test and Trace merits just a few lines in the Budget Red Book, but it confirms that cash allocated in the 2020 Spending Review will deliver “a further £15 billion next year”, on top of £22bn this financial year to March 31.

Chancellor Rishi Sunak last year gradually hiked the money given to Test and Trace, adding an extra £7bn on top of its original £15bn earmarked for 2020/21.

The new £15bn will come from a special £55bn “Covid reserve” for 2021/22. Just £700 million of the Covid reserve is going to “catch-up” teaching for schools, while £1.6bn will go on vaccine procurement next year.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b601179ec35d4a

[Captain_Swoop]

£37bn is more than half of the entire MOD budget for a year.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

£37bn is more than half of the entire MOD budget for a year.

Well tbh test and trace is more effective at killing people.