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Old 4th September 2019, 06:55 AM   #881
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Yale's population is about 7% black.

Siyonbola knew that she was one of two black people within a short time frame that Braasch called the police on as not belonging there.

If race were in no way a factor, the odds of the two people she thinks don't belong there just randomly happening to be black would be about 1/200.

Given the information when the story came out, those odds wouldn't be a bad jumping off point for the question of whether race played a role in determining Braasch's actions.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:08 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hang on: this is it. The whole racism/LWB thing in a phrase.

Why should racism be a given over any other explanation, including just being a jerk or having a bad day? Why should a cowardly trait be assumed when no motivations are in evidence? Isn't that taking a rather bleak view of how we see each other?
You refusing to acknowledge multiple incidents as evidence appears to be your issue, no one else's. It would appear that she has only had 2 bad days, and both of those bad days resulted in calling the cops on black people. If it weren't, she would have screamed in her multiple videos about how she had done the same to several white people too.

I also linked to an article where Braasch said she treated Siyonbola more aggressively than she normally would have because she thought Siyonbola could have been one of the previous harassers. What do you think she based that on? You think it was because Siyonbola lived in the dorm? Do you think it could be because Siyonbola was black? You tell me. Though Occam's Razor should play a role here.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Here, Siyonbola didn't catch Braach with the racist lipstick on the collar. She just caught Braach...i dunno...sneaking in late. It may have been because Braach was being unfaithful, but it may also have been because her car broke down or was planning a surprise birthday party for their anniversary and...what were we talking about?
A surprise birthday party for their anniversary? My wife is born on Christmas and she'd completely understand that.

Pedantic nit pick aside, there is evidence that Braasch appears to have issues with black people being in her area vs. white people being in her area. I can't find a single incident at all of her having any conflicts or run-ins with people of the pasty exterior. We have at least 2 conflicts with people of that opposite shade. While it's not conclusive by any means, and like I said I don't think she's a racist, I'm still not willing to chastise someone for drawing that conclusion. Evidence DOES point in that direction.

ETA: Dammit, Cavemonster said it much better and shorter than I did.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:10 AM   #883
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Yale's population is about 7% black.

Siyonbola knew that she was one of two black people within a short time frame that Braasch called the police on as not belonging there.

If race were in no way a factor, the odds of the two people she thinks don't belong there just randomly happening to be black would be about 1/200.

Given the information when the story came out, those odds wouldn't be a bad jumping off point for the question of whether race played a role in determining Braasch's actions.
Don't you understand, you can't call something racist until the persons involved are calling people the N word while wearing KKK robes and hanging commemorative lynching memorabilia around their homes. Otherwise there is simply no way to so anything is racist.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:14 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Yale's population is about 7% black.

Siyonbola knew that she was one of two black people within a short time frame that Braasch called the police on as not belonging there.

If race were in no way a factor, the odds of the two people she thinks don't belong there just randomly happening to be black would be about 1/200.

Given the information when the story came out, those odds wouldn't be a bad jumping off point for the question of whether race played a role in determining Braasch's actions.
On what grounds do you dismiss the dozens of complaints Braach made to campus police for loud noise, leaving threatening notes on her door, verbal taunting, and the other myriad of complaints that had her change residences three times, and she was in fact packing to move yet again at the time of the OP?

This was in no way a 'just two times she called the cops, and they both happened to be black' scenario.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:26 AM   #885
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You refusing to acknowledge multiple incidents as evidence appears to be your issue, no one else's. It would appear that she has only had 2 bad days, and both of those bad days resulted in calling the cops on black people. If it weren't, she would have screamed in her multiple videos about how she had done the same to several white people too.

I also linked to an article where Braasch said she treated Siyonbola more aggressively than she normally would have because she thought Siyonbola could have been one of the previous harassers. What do you think she based that on? You think it was because Siyonbola lived in the dorm? Do you think it could be because Siyonbola was black? You tell me. Though Occam's Razor should play a role here.
Hold up: you're doing the same thing that Cavemonster is doing. You can't simultaneously say she only had two bad days, and acknowledge she made dozens of calls to cops and requested moving repeatedly. Siyonbola and her friend were by no means singled out. Braach had campus PD on freaking speed dial.

Quote:
A surprise birthday party for their anniversary? My wife is born on Christmas and she'd completely understand that.

Pedantic nit pick aside, there is evidence that Braasch appears to have issues with black people being in her area vs. white people being in her area. I can't find a single incident at all of her having any conflicts or run-ins with people of the pasty exterior. We have at least 2 conflicts with people of that opposite shade. While it's not conclusive by any means, and like I said I don't think she's a racist, I'm still not willing to chastise someone for drawing that conclusion. Evidence DOES point in that direction.

ETA: Dammit, Cavemonster said it much better and shorter than I did.
Think about it: we have dozens of incidents where she didn't (presumably) have any idea what color people were and she called the cops. Basically, anyone who dared disturb the Lady Braach's solitude got her wrath. There was a report of her going out to confront people partying at 3 AM, too; have you vetted their melanin content? You guys are seriously not familiar with this type of territorial twat?
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:29 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hang on: this is it. The whole racism/LWB thing in a phrase.

Why should racism be a given over any other explanation, including just being a jerk or having a bad day? Why should a cowardly trait be assumed when no motivations are in evidence? Isn't that taking a rather bleak view of how we see each other?
If your experience is that a certain set of white people in the US are mean to black people for no apparent reason why should you not assume it is racism every time some white person flips out for no apparent reason?

I think it would be more stupid to not learn from your experiences.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:33 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If your experience is that a certain set of white people in the US are mean to black people for no apparent reason why should you not assume it is racism every time some white person flips out for no apparent reason?

I think it would be more stupid to not learn from your experiences.
How dare you suggest that race play a role in these conflicts just because Yale is an exceptionally affluent, lily white country club in the middle of a impoverished, ethnically diverse city.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:42 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If your experience is that a certain set of white people in the US are mean to black people for no apparent reason why should you not assume it is racism every time some white person flips out for no apparent reason?

I think it would be more stupid to not learn from your experiences.
OK. Are you assuming that all black people run into racists more than garden variety whackos? Is this 'certain set' prevalent enough to accuse anyone of bigotry absent any other explanation? Siyonbola's experience would presumably be well-to-do UK and then well-to-do Yale communities in the Northeast.

And I think Siyonbola would back a brother up here. She says in the long video that Braach should be 'institutionalized' at least thrice. She does not accuse her of racism. That says more about her POV than our assumptions, I think. Agree or nah?
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:46 AM   #889
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At the risk of getting scolded for not keeping up with the details, I'm confused about something. Braasch is now saying that she believed Siyanbola to be one of the students who'd been harassing her outside her door, or whatever. So, doesn't that prove Braasch knew Siyanbola was a student? Why didn't she get in trouble for lying to the police? "I thought she didn't belong here." You obviously knew that she did, though.

Again, I may have missed something.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:48 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
OK. Are you assuming that all black people run into racists more than garden variety whackos? Is this 'certain set' prevalent enough to accuse anyone of bigotry absent any other explanation? Siyonbola's experience would presumably be well-to-do UK and then well-to-do Yale communities in the Northeast.
Are you assuming that well-to-do communities do not contain racists?

Interesting. I'll let master Trump know all about this new theory.

Quote:
And I think Siyonbola would back a brother up here. She says in the long video that Braach should be 'institutionalized' at least thrice. She does not accuse her of racism. That says more about her POV than our assumptions, I think. Agree or nah?
Why should she assume "crazy" means "not racist"? That mother ******* crazy ass racist bitch is not less racist just because she is also crazy. See any video of crazy white women calling the cops on black people doing normal **** out in public. All of them are mother ******* crazy, and all of them are racist as ****.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:49 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
At the risk of getting scolded for not keeping up with the details, I'm confused about something. Braasch is now saying that she believed Siyanbola to be one of the students who'd been harassing her outside her door, or whatever. So, doesn't that prove Braasch knew Siyanbola was a student? Why didn't she get in trouble for lying to the police? "I thought she didn't belong here." You obviously knew that she did, though.

Again, I may have missed something.
I had the same thought but didn't followup on it. Well put.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:53 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
At the risk of getting scolded for not keeping up with the details, I'm confused about something. Braasch is now saying that she believed Siyanbola to be one of the students who'd been harassing her outside her door, or whatever. So, doesn't that prove Braasch knew Siyanbola was a student? Why didn't she get in trouble for lying to the police? "I thought she didn't belong here." You obviously knew that she did, though.

Again, I may have missed something.
You're right. Lends credibility that this was more personal and less generically racist, IMO.

But IIRC Braach was saying Siyonbola was not allowed to sleep there, not that she was not a student.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:57 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're right. Lends credibility that this was more personal and less generically racist, IMO.

But IIRC Braach was saying Siyonbola was not allowed to sleep there, not that she was not a student.
yes, but the police treated it like a trespass situation, demanding proof that she was a resident. Probably has to do with Braach's perhaps intentionally vague report of someone "not meant to be there".

Someone misusing the break room of their building is not a police matter. A reasonable person would complain to the landlord, not the cops.

Braach never should have made this a police matter, and the police never should have been such willing dupes to this petty crap.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:01 AM   #894
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You refusing to acknowledge multiple incidents as evidence appears to be your issue, no one else's. It would appear that she has only had 2 bad days, and both of those bad days resulted in calling the cops on black people. If it weren't, she would have screamed in her multiple videos about how she had done the same to several white people too.

I also linked to an article where Braasch said she treated Siyonbola more aggressively than she normally would have because she thought Siyonbola could have been one of the previous harassers. What do you think she based that on? You think it was because Siyonbola lived in the dorm? Do you think it could be because Siyonbola was black? You tell me. Though Occam's Razor should play a role here.



A surprise birthday party for their anniversary? My wife is born on Christmas and she'd completely understand that.

Pedantic nit pick aside, there is evidence that Braasch appears to have issues with black people being in her area vs. white people being in her area. I can't find a single incident at all of her having any conflicts or run-ins with people of the pasty exterior. We have at least 2 conflicts with people of that opposite shade. While it's not conclusive by any means, and like I said I don't think she's a racist, I'm still not willing to chastise someone for drawing that conclusion. Evidence DOES point in that direction.

ETA: Dammit, Cavemonster said it much better and shorter than I did.
She called the police on white people multiple times, she got moved to a new dorm due to a disagreement with a white person:

In the article that revitalized the thread a few days ago,


Quote:
she says, the (white) young woman with whom she shared a bathroom at the Hall of Graduate Studies stubbornly shirked cleaning duties. Eventually, there was a blow-up, and Braasch asked to be moved;
Quote:
Finally, around 3 a.m. one morning in April 2016, she opened her door to tell some raucously drunk students in the hallway—two white men and a South Asian woman—to knock it off. Instead, they got verbally abusive, and Braasch was sufficiently rattled to call the non-emergency campus police line, resulting in a visit from the cops.
Quote:
hree days later, leaving her room early in the afternoon, she noticed a middle-aged white male who looked like a worker walking out of the common lounge. Then, Braasch remembered that she had seen the same man about a week earlier, sitting on the stairs near her door looking at his phone. “I’m concerned that I’m being stalked,” she wrote to a housing manager. She also made a report to the Yale Police Department the same day.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:03 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Are you assuming that well-to-do communities do not contain racists?
Not what I am asking. I am asking on what grounds you declare racism to be her starting POV for any negative interaction. I don't look at a black person and make that assumption. Why are you?

Quote:
Interesting. I'll let master Trump know all about this new theory.
As I have said on Lo these many threads, the President is a POS. As is the party he has come to prominence in. Talk about the ugliness of racism all you like, but don't drag the discussion down to invoking the T word. That's just distasteful.


Quote:
Why should she assume "crazy" means "not racist"? That mother ******* crazy ass racist bitch is not less racist just because she is also crazy. See any video of crazy white women calling the cops on black people doing normal **** out in public. All of them are mother ******* crazy, and all of them are racist as ****.
Because she specifically, repeatedly, and ONLY said crazy. That was her take. I agree. I'm asking the forum clairvoyants where they got the rest of the narrative. You know, without basing it solely on Siyonbola's skin color.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:07 AM   #896
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
yes, but the police treated it like a trespass situation, demanding proof that she was a resident. Probably has to do with Braach's perhaps intentionally vague report of someone "not meant to be there".

Someone misusing the break room of their building is not a police matter. A reasonable person would complain to the landlord, not the cops.

Braach never should have made this a police matter, and the police never should have been such willing dupes to this petty crap.
Agreed, but I cut the cops more slack. As you noted upthread, we live in a 'show me your papers' society. Yale PD has a protocol to follow, and in the interests of keeping their jobs, I accept that they follow it. After the ID showing, they did reprimand Braach for her actions, as well they should.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:21 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
On what grounds do you dismiss the dozens of complaints Braach made to campus police for loud noise, leaving threatening notes on her door, verbal taunting, and the other myriad of complaints that had her change residences three times, and she was in fact packing to move yet again at the time of the OP?

This was in no way a 'just two times she called the cops, and they both happened to be black' scenario.
On the grounds it doesn't support their chosen narrative, obviously.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:22 AM   #898
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
She called the police on white people multiple times, she got moved to a new dorm due to a disagreement with a white person:

In the article that revitalized the thread a few days ago,
"hree days later, leaving her room early in the afternoon, she noticed a middle-aged white male who looked like a worker walking out of the common lounge. Then, Braasch remembered that she had seen the same man about a week earlier, sitting on the stairs near her door looking at his phone. “I’m concerned that I’m being stalked,” she wrote to a housing manager. She also made a report to the Yale Police Department the same day."
I saw the same people sitting on their laptops outside my classroom every day I've gone to that class so far! They are stalking me!

May I never have a neighbor like this.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:22 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
At the risk of getting scolded for not keeping up with the details, I'm confused about something. Braasch is now saying that she believed Siyanbola to be one of the students who'd been harassing her outside her door, or whatever. So, doesn't that prove Braasch knew Siyanbola was a student? Why didn't she get in trouble for lying to the police? "I thought she didn't belong here." You obviously knew that she did, though.

Again, I may have missed something.
That's true, but she's crazy so how do we really know what she meant?

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
She called the police on white people multiple times, she got moved to a new dorm due to a disagreement with a white person:

In the article that revitalized the thread a few days ago,
Weird, I was the one that linked to that as well. I don't know how I missed that, but I'm going to blame it on something else. I just don't know what yet.

My only defense is that I still don't think she's racist, but I don't think that Siyanbola would have known any different. Siyanbola only knew of the two instances, and everything we know comes from hindsight. There is absolutely no way for Siyanbola to know about those other incidents. What she did know is her friend and her got the cops called on them and they both had one thing in common. They were black and in a public space and Siyanbola has said that she felt the phone call was racially motivated. To me, I believe that to be reasonable and if you look at the beginnings of the thread, it wasn't until a period after the event that Braasch being crazy come out. I don't fault Siyanbola for assuming Braasch was racist either. I also don't have sympathy for Braasch because she's a pathological complainer. Being an equal opportunity stupid bitch will sometimes land you in hot water. This is her bed, lay in it.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:24 AM   #900
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
On the grounds it doesn't support their chosen narrative, obviously.
Awesome addition to the thread. Very witty counter argument to the whole thread and I'm super glad you participated.

ETA: I'll admit to being wrong about her calling the cops on only black people, as I've said before. I'm open to being wrong, and I wish it was something that people on this forum would do more often, though I don't see that ever changing. It still doesn't change the facts that there's no way Siyanbola would have known, and nor should she have to go through the process of screening someone to find out if their ******* crazy or racist. If a person is going to walk about being a dumb *******, and accusing everyone of random ****, then mathematically one of those events will go wrong. Braasch is a moron, perhaps not a racist moron, but those two are easily confused.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:29 AM   #901
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I saw the same people sitting on their laptops outside my classroom every day I've gone to that class so far! They are stalking me!

May I never have a neighbor like this.
You are conflating two different scenarios.

Braasch lived on the 12th floor of a dorm, her room, and a common room were the only two rooms on that floor.

I'm thinking she was moved there, in order to reduce her interactions with people in general. The fact that she called the police on people she thought were harassing her, seems to be more about her social paranoia, than about race.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:31 AM   #902
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The popular new woo...

Declaring a white person to be racist even when they are not.

What does James Randi have to say about this newish form of woo?
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:36 AM   #903
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Yes, I was commenting on her social paranoia. Seeing the same people hanging around a college building is pretty standard. Yeah yeah, I know - her room was the only one on that floor. So what? It still has a common area designated. She might feel that no one should use that particular common area because it's "hers," but it isn't actually hers. Other students might have all kinds of non-nefarious reasons for using it.

She is the kind of person I have nightmares about getting as a neighbor someday. I cannot stand people watching me when I'm just going about my business, dreaming up all kinds of ways my behavior must be about them.

That's one thing I will definitely miss about the ghetto. People mind their own damn business.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:38 AM   #904
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The popular new woo...

Declaring a white person to be racist even when they are not.

What does James Randi have to say about this newish form of woo?
Yeah, right? Why don't people getting the cops called on them for doing absolutely nothing take more time to be more compassionate and caring to the people calling the cops on them? That's not extremely stupid.

#PoorMisunderstoodCrazyWhitePeople
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:41 AM   #905
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
On what grounds do you dismiss the dozens of complaints Braach made to campus police for loud noise, leaving threatening notes on her door, verbal taunting, and the other myriad of complaints that had her change residences three times, and she was in fact packing to move yet again at the time of the OP?

This was in no way a 'just two times she called the cops, and they both happened to be black' scenario.
If we're talking about initial reactions and reading of the situation, including Siyonbola's read on the situation, those incidents would be unknown, so one wouldn't need to dismiss them. And part of this discussion has been condemnation of people leaping at that moment to assumptions of racism, so an analysis based on what was known then seems pertinent.

But leaping ahead to what we know now from the Bulwark article-

I think there's a little handwaving if you simple say 'She had problems with a lot of people, so it isn't outside the odds that a couple of them would be black."

For one thing, although there may have been myriad complaints, they were against a fairly small number of people, mostly continuing disputes. A roomate, three neighbors, and a maintenance worker. And while her paranoia and poor social skills, certainly influenced these interactions, they sound like more or less extensions of common conflicts. People fight with their roomates over things like cleanliness. College students fight with their. neighbors or volume levels. Neither of those groups had the police called on them as possibly not being authorized to be on campus. her reaction might have been outsized, but high tensions in those situations are not drawn from nothing.

The only really comparable incident was the maintenance worker. And while her reaction to that situation shows a deep paranoia, she had to see the guy a number of times over the course of at least a week and think (whether correctly or incorrectly) that things in her room were being moved.

There are only two people she saw once briefly and immediately called the police to say that they didn't belong there. And those two people just happened to be black

Her mental health issue clearly play a role, but just because her issues have been the root of multiple conflicts doesn't mean we can ignore that the reaction of "I see you, you don't belong here" only happened to black people.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:42 AM   #906
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, right? Why don't people getting the cops called on them for doing absolutely nothing take more time to be more compassionate and caring to the people calling the cops on them? That's not extremely stupid.

#PoorMisunderstoodCrazyWhitePeople
Randi would call that a strawman.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:12 AM   #907
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Randi would call that a strawman.
You should have applied for the million dollars if you're so damn good at knowing what Randi would think. There's a fallacy for this too, but I'll let you get in touch with Randi for help figuring it out.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:18 AM   #908
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed, but I cut the cops more slack. As you noted upthread, we live in a 'show me your papers' society.
Of course not for white people. You don't see white citizens getting locked up by ICE despite having their passport now do you?

Of course there is nothing racist about demanding more proof of citizenship and refusing to believe it from non whites as well.
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Old 4th September 2019, 10:56 AM   #909
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You should have applied for the million dollars if you're so damn good at knowing what Randi would think. There's a fallacy for this too, but I'll let you get in touch with Randi for help figuring it out.
Nice try.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:51 AM   #910
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
At the risk of getting scolded for not keeping up with the details, I'm confused about something. Braasch is now saying that she believed Siyanbola to be one of the students who'd been harassing her outside her door, or whatever. So, doesn't that prove Braasch knew Siyanbola was a student? Why didn't she get in trouble for lying to the police? "I thought she didn't belong here." You obviously knew that she did, though.

Again, I may have missed something.
No you're not missing anything. I think I may have mentioned this anomaly somewhere way back in this long thread, but things come and go and I can't even remember now whether or how I might have said it or just thought it. Since aside from the anomaly there seems to have been no mention of this in Braasch's confrontation with Siyombola, the most likely possibilities are first that Braasch lied to the police and purposely determined to return the harassment to Siyombola by pretending not to know her, or that she didn't know who (if anyone, remember, we're now saying she did everything because she's just crazy, so what can you trust?) had been harassing her, and she or her defenders made up the excuse after the fact. I suspect the latter, as the former demands a pretty cool and calculating head, which I don't see evidence of in Braasch's behavior on the spot.

We can use our imagination to fine tune Braasch's craziness to suit any narrative, but it's speculation.
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Old 27th February 2021, 09:19 PM   #911
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a long article on the incident

I have not seen a link to Cathy Young's article on this incident.

"In the end, Braasch certainly bears some responsibility for what happened. But so does Siyonbola, who chose to escalate the conflict on two occasions and to frame it in entirely racial terms despite being apparently aware of Braasch’s mental health issues. In a way, each woman’s single-minded hypervigilance and sense of grievance—personal for one, racial for the other—made her blind to the other’s humanity."
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Old 27th February 2021, 10:08 PM   #912
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No, I'm not willing to blame black people who resist police intrusion in their lives by kowtowing in overly polite ways.

Yes, if I had a black child, especially a son I would tell them to tread very carefully when approached by police. But this woman was in her own dorm and when challenged, she opened the bloody door to her room with a key.

What were police thinking, that she stole the key? On what evidence other than racism did they need an ID after she opened the room with a key? If she stole the key to the room, why would she have been sleeping in the common room?

Typical bully cops, they asked for ID then demanded that was required.

Give me a break! At the point she opened her room door with a key, those campus wannabe cops should have told the Karen who called them that maybe she should have been a bit nicer and not started a confrontation.

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Old 27th February 2021, 11:43 PM   #913
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It seems that Siyonbola's sin was not being very nice to Braasch, or deferring to her known mental problems. Disregarding possible prior issues and interactions, that may have been poor behavior, even perhaps a bit passive-aggressive. But when Braasch called the cops, and the cops behaved badly, it became a racial incident whatever it had started out as, and whatever Braasch's stated opinions elsewhere. Whatever one can say about her troubled past and her fine ideas, it appears that it was her choice to see a threat to start with, and her choice to turn it into a confrontation, and her choice to involve the campus cops. It seems to be popular these days when people are caught out behaving badly to say "that isn't me." But we are what we do, not what we say.

Isn't it odd how often the people who tell us we should put these things behind us are the ones who put them in front of us in the first place?
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Old 28th February 2021, 07:08 AM   #914
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
I have not seen a link to Cathy Young's article on this incident.

"In the end, Braasch certainly bears some responsibility for what happened. But so does Siyonbola, who chose to escalate the conflict on two occasions and to frame it in entirely racial terms despite being apparently aware of Braasch’s mental health issues. In a way, each woman’s single-minded hypervigilance and sense of grievance—personal for one, racial for the other—made her blind to the other’s humanity."
I disagree entirely for the reasons below:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, I'm not willing to blame black people who resist police intrusion in their lives by kowtowing in overly polite ways.

Yes, if I had a black child, especially a son I would tell them to tread very carefully when approached by police. But this woman was in her own dorm and when challenged, she opened the bloody door to her room with a key.

What were police thinking, that she stole the key? On what evidence other than racism did they need an ID after she opened the room with a key? If she stole the key to the room, why would she have been sleeping in the common room?

Typical bully cops, they asked for ID then demanded that was required.

Give me a break! At the point she opened her room door with a key, those campus wannabe cops should have told the Karen who called them that maybe she should have been a bit nicer and not started a confrontation.
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It seems that Siyonbola's sin was not being very nice to Braasch, or deferring to her known mental problems. Disregarding possible prior issues and interactions, that may have been poor behavior, even perhaps a bit passive-aggressive. But when Braasch called the cops, and the cops behaved badly, it became a racial incident whatever it had started out as, and whatever Braasch's stated opinions elsewhere. Whatever one can say about her troubled past and her fine ideas, it appears that it was her choice to see a threat to start with, and her choice to turn it into a confrontation, and her choice to involve the campus cops. It seems to be popular these days when people are caught out behaving badly to say "that isn't me." But we are what we do, not what we say.

Isn't it odd how often the people who tell us we should put these things behind us are the ones who put them in front of us in the first place?
And because I have no idea how tired I'd get if I had had to bite my tongue every time someone was racially prejudiced against me.

Just because someone had mental illness, if they are picking on you, you don't have to be a saint.
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Old 28th February 2021, 08:26 AM   #915
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I disagree entirely for the reasons below:



And because I have no idea how tired I'd get if I had had to bite my tongue every time someone was racially prejudiced against me.

Just because someone had mental illness, if they are picking on you, you don't have to be a saint.
Not only had she a mental illness, she had intentionally gone of her meds.

From the same article...

Quote:
The elephant in the room, of course, is the state of Braasch’s mental health—perhaps exacerbated by the fact that, as indicated by her correspondence with the dean’s office about a Ph.D. schedule extension, she stopped taking psychotropic medications at some point in 2017. Her emails to Yale staff often show a tendency toward paranoid thinking, with rapid escalation from suspicions to extreme conclusions (which can make it difficult to assess her claims). The same pattern is evident in some of Braasch’s recent statements—for instance, that a brief mention of the “napping while black” incident in a wire story on the NBC News website was NBC’s “retaliation” for her demands to retract past reports portraying her as a racist, or that Yale has made secret deals to encourage various pundits to defame her.
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Old 28th February 2021, 09:37 AM   #916
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I AGREE
Her side of the story.
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Old 28th February 2021, 09:38 AM   #917
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It seems that Siyonbola's sin was not being very nice to Braasch, or deferring to her known mental problems. Disregarding possible prior issues and interactions, that may have been poor behavior, even perhaps a bit passive-aggressive. But when Braasch called the cops, and the cops behaved badly, it became a racial incident whatever it had started out as, and whatever Braasch's stated opinions elsewhere. Whatever one can say about her troubled past and her fine ideas, it appears that it was her choice to see a threat to start with, and her choice to turn it into a confrontation, and her choice to involve the campus cops. It seems to be popular these days when people are caught out behaving badly to say "that isn't me." But we are what we do, not what we say.

Isn't it odd how often the people who tell us we should put these things behind us are the ones who put them in front of us in the first place?


I agree entirely.
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Old 28th February 2021, 09:51 AM   #918
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
I have not seen a link to Cathy Young's article on this incident.

"In the end, Braasch certainly bears some responsibility for what happened. But so does Siyonbola, who chose to escalate the conflict on two occasions and to frame it in entirely racial terms despite being apparently aware of Braasch’s mental health issues. In a way, each woman’s single-minded hypervigilance and sense of grievance—personal for one, racial for the other—made her blind to the other’s humanity."
The highlighted is BS, in my opinion, because it completely discounts the actions of the cops. They didn't show up, assess the situation, check Siyonbola's ID, and then say, "Sorry to bother you, ma'am." They were absolute, officious dickwads who gave her a hard time. So even if the initial report could be written off as Braasch experiencing a mental health event, the behavior of the responding officers does not rule out racism. The person who wrote that article is ignoring this.
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Old 28th February 2021, 10:00 AM   #919
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
The highlighted is BS, in my opinion, because it completely discounts the actions of the cops. They didn't show up, assess the situation, check Siyonbola's ID, and then say, "Sorry to bother you, ma'am." They were absolute, officious dickwads who gave her a hard time. So even if the initial report could be written off as Braasch experiencing a mental health event, the behavior of the responding officers does not rule out racism. The person who wrote that article is ignoring this.
This. However this started, the racial incident arose, and even if outside observers think Siyonbola was unseemly or excessive or whatever, I think she was entirely entitled to be outraged. We see over and over, that people who are not the object of the constant minor insults and aggressions some others face, bristle when the victims don't just shrug it off again.

It's too bad, perhaps, that Braasch ended up responsible for more than she had bargained for, and in the center of an outrage far bigger than a dorm dispute, but that's what occurred, and calling it a hoax is not the answer.
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Old 28th February 2021, 11:10 AM   #920
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It's not the responsibility of a black person who regularly endures the effects of racism to consider whether this-particular-white-person harassing them in this-particular-instance might be doing so because of alleged mental health issues rather than racism and tone-police their own objection to their harassment.

An investigation after the fact by a journalist may have found out that Braach stopped taking medicine for some mental health issue a few years ago; but at the time it looked and quacked like a duck, and Siyonbola was not "wrong" to call it a duck.
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