CPAC 2021

d4m10n · 27th February 2021, 12:15 PM

There appears to be an ongoing debate over whether the CPAC stage was deliberately designed to resemble an Odal_(rune)^WP or whether it's just a weird coincidence.

pq1uscea9zj61.jpg

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cp...e-nazi-symbol/

https://twitter.com/allisongill/stat...0452824756224/

I'm sure there's all sorts of other weird **** going down as well, and I didn't see another thread on topic.

Shalamar · 27th February 2021, 12:31 PM

I'm going to go with:
It was an intentional decision.
It will be denied that it was an intentional decision.
It's the fault of 'the left' for noticing the similarity, and thus, they are the true Nazis.
The right demands One Party Rule.

Stacyhs · 27th February 2021, 12:38 PM

The Commie, Socialist, Radical Lefties are just being DRAMATIC!

LEAVE DONALD ALONE!

/s

Shalamar · 27th February 2021, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

The Commie, Socialist, Radical Lefties are just being DRAMATIC!

LEAVE DONALD ALONE!

/s

They have literally erected a golden statue of The Chosen One at CPAC for them to worship.

Conservatives are a cult.

Distracted1 · 27th February 2021, 12:43 PM

plus, I hear they are drinking the blood of Muslim babies!!

Shalamar · 27th February 2021, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

plus, I hear they are drinking the blood of Muslim babies!!

I've seen photos of the stage. I've seen the pictures of the Golden Trump.

Have not heard of them drinking blood however. Evidence?

Distracted1 · 27th February 2021, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Shalamar

I've seen photos of the stage. I've seen the pictures of the Golden Trump.

Have not heard of them drinking blood however. Evidence?

Its' something they do when they are "worshipping" the statue.

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2021, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Its' something they do when they are "worshipping" the statue.

Drinking Donnie's blood would be so like some US conservatives. Just as long as enough of them do it publicly, Donny and them will die. Then we can all move on from the madness and live better lives in a sane world.

Drink up!

Shalamar · 27th February 2021, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Its' something they do when they are "worshipping" the statue.

I understand the sensitive snowflakes are upset about getting caught at it. I recall the times when the right wing was accusing Democrats of elevating, or worshiping Obama. Then I remember, it's only bad when a Democrat/liberal/leftist/porg does it.

You can worship at the statue of The Chosen One all you want, Distracted1, the sane folk will just eye you oddly for it.

Enjoy your Golden Calf.

dudalb · 27th February 2021, 02:44 PM

Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks.
it's official: American Conservatives hate Science.

Trebuchet · 27th February 2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks.
it's official: American Conservatives hate Science.

Certainly that didn't come as a surprise to you, did it? It's been official for years.

Stacyhs · 27th February 2021, 05:21 PM

The Trump Faithful are outside CPAC waiting for the Chosen One to appear and give them "guidance" as they're all "waiting to hear the next step" as one just told a reporter. Nope, they're not cultist at all. Not at all. I've never in my life waited for a politician to tell me what to do, least of all "next". These people need an authoritarian to tell them what to do because they can act on all their own racist or otherwise negative beliefs and avoid personal responsibility. They've not only been give permission to do so, they've been told to act on them.

Cavemonster · 27th February 2021, 05:43 PM

Watching the pizzagate and qanon conspiracy theorists twist themselves in knots to find symbols everywhere, I'm especially reluctant to apply symbolic intention to abstract shapes when there's some possibility of coincidence.

I'm not super familiar with the history and use of this shape. Stages with projections and walkways are pretty standard. Straight angles are massively cheaper to build than curves, so it isn't crazy to think this shape emergered. I'm not familiar enough with standard staging design to know what the process of designing a stage normally looks like. Heck, as far as I know the stage was already built and was a rental as is.

All that said, the kind of people who use neonazi symbols are certainly no strangers to the GOP over the past few years especially. The same groups sporting Trump's quote of "stand back and stand by" on t-shirts were also spotted at another event wearing ones that said "6mwe" short for 6 million jews killed in the holocaust not being enough. Neonazis and other white supremacists really love their little symbols and secret codes, that's not supposition.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a meaningless coicidence.

Or if it were a decision that someone in the process thought would send a message.

Based on the "trolling as an admirable quality" new norm of the right that Trump has ushered in, I'd say there's at least a 20% chance that someone knew the symbol and picked it knowing that it might "trigger the libs" not necessarily to send a neo nazi message, but just because they knew people would spot it but not be able to prove it was intentional.

Nova Land · 27th February 2021, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

There appears to be an ongoing debate over whether the CPAC stage was deliberately designed to resemble an Odal_(rune)^WP or whether it's just a weird coincidence.

Snopes says it remains unproven (for now) whether this was a deliberate use of Nazi imagery or simply an odd coincidence that a group some of whose members have been known to associate with White Nationalists and other racists happened to choose a stage design which looks like a symbol used by the Nazis last century and being used by some of this centuries Nazi-wannabes.

I think Snopes is right; it's not yet proven. But I think the odds are good that this was a deliberate choice on the part of at least some of the people who planned the conference.

It's not like this would be the first time in recent history that right-wing Republicans chose to use Nazi imagery or to quote Nazis and fascists or to allude to things such people have said. Just last month, for instance, newly-elected Illinois congresswoman Mary Miller quoted Hitler approvingly the day before Trump supporters stormed the capitol.

Last year Segnosaur started a thread, Trump and the use of Nazi/fascist imagery, which included some prominent examples of Trump and his people engaging in this kind of behavior. Some of you might be interested in reviewing the content of that thread when considering this CPAC incident.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

We have recently seen a few cases where Trump and/or his campaign has started to use imagery related to Nazi Germany or 20th century Facism in general...

--------------------

During the 2015 primaries, Trump tweets a picture of an American flag, with the white house and a group of soldiers in the background. However, the solders were actually wearing uniforms based on those used in Nazi Germany.

CNN

During the 2016 campaign, Trump quoted Mussolini. "It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep."

Politico

During the 2016 election, Trump tweeted a picture of Clinton, a bunch of cash, and a yellow star of David (the same symbol used to identify Jews in nazi concentration camps), which was widely thought to suggest "Clinton is being bribed by Jews". The campaign tried to explain it as being a "Sherrif's star", but the image had previously been posted in a racist forum.

CNN

Trump starts to adopt the phrase "America First". Now, that particular slogan had been in use for well over a centry (long before World War 1); however, it had been adopted by anti-interventionalists/pro-Nazi sympathizers during world war 2.

The Guardian

Trump campaign placed facebook ads waring people against 'far left' groups like Antifa. However, the message was accompanied by a red triangle, which was the same symbole used in Nazi concentration camps to denote political prisoners

Forbes

Trump tweets a video where a Trump supporter is clearly heard shouting "White Power".

CNN

Trump's campaign started to produce a shirt with an 'America First' theme. The problem is, the logo that was used (An eagle, wings spread, head facing right, and perched on a circle) was the same one used by Nazi germany.

Forbes

I think this past behavior of people on the right, and the failure of Trump supporters to condemn it when it was pointed out or to take steps to avoid this kind of thing continuing to happen, is good evidence that it was not accidental in the past, that they knew what they were doing and they had no problem doing it, and that the current incident is indeed the result of a deliberate choice rather than an embarrassing coincidence.

Mumbles · 27th February 2021, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

There appears to be an ongoing debate over whether the CPAC stage was deliberately designed to resemble an Odal_(rune)^WP or whether it's just a weird coincidence.

Attachment 44323

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cp...e-nazi-symbol/

https://twitter.com/allisongill/stat...0452824756224/

I'm sure there's all sorts of other weird **** going down as well, and I didn't see another thread on topic.

Frankly, I wouldn't think any less of them if it turns out it were an odal rune anyway. When your featured speaker is a guy that proposed special armbands and lists for a disfavored religious group as a political promise (even if he broke it), you're past that line anyway.

Other weirdness:

"real Americans in diners" don't care about "esoteric" things, they're worried about the 10th amendment and the correct way to respond to the national anthem.

Kimberly Guyrererwhateverwhocaes claims Toupee Fiscco will do more from his country club home than Biden and Harris will in the next 4 years. Did he do anything useful in his entire stint in the White House?

As a rap fan, I'm used to listening to conspiracy theories in rhyme form, but this is a bit much.

Anyway, I'm sure Marriot, and any local sex workers, are profiting nicely. Hope they're leaving decent tips for their waiters and the like this time, especially in COVID superspreader hateathon.

d4m10n · 27th February 2021, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Frankly, I wouldn't think any less of them if it turns out it were an odal rune anyway. When your featured speaker is a guy that proposed special armbands and lists for a disfavored religious group as a political promise (even if he broke it), you're past that line anyway.

I don't recall this one.

PhantomWolf · 27th February 2021, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't recall this one.

Well, to be fair he didn't actually say it like that. He was asked during an interview if Muslims should have to be registered and required to wear some form of ID Badge and rather than saying "What a repulsive idea, making someone wear a badge displaying their religious belief is right out of 1930's Germany," he said "We're going to have to look at a lot of things very closely. We're going to have to look at the mosques. We're going to have to look very, very carefully."

Later when asked what the difference between a Muslim Database where Muslims were required to register and the registration of Jews in Nazi Germany he replied, "You tell me," and then wouldn't respond to further questions on it.

So no he didn't say it, but he strongly implied that it was an idea worthy of great consideration.

Skeptic Ginger · 27th February 2021, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

.... As a rap fan, I'm used to listening to conspiracy theories in rhyme form, but this is a bit much. ...

Is that Roger Stone dancing beside him?

Venom · 27th February 2021, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

As a rap fan, I'm used to listening to conspiracy theories in rhyme form, but this is a bit much.

Ladewig · 28th February 2021, 03:22 AM

The other reason I think it was intentional is that all the people discussing this topic are are not discussing the painfully ignorant content of the speakers.

No, Don, Jr. the Muppets have not been banned.

Distracted1 · 28th February 2021, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Shalamar

I understand the sensitive snowflakes are upset about getting caught at it. I recall the times when the right wing was accusing Democrats of elevating, or worshiping Obama. Then I remember, it's only bad when a Democrat/liberal/leftist/porg does it.

You can worship at the statue of The Chosen One all you want, Distracted1, the sane folk will just eye you oddly for it.

Enjoy your Golden Calf.

How could I have forgotten. It's only bad when conservatives do it, right?

Maybe conservatives did not stop other conservatives from hyperbolizing because they would get some kind of knee-jerk reaction accusing them of being "radical leftists" if they did.
It's amazing how we can demonize one group for not being able to police itself- then go off on members of our own side who point out when we are doing the same thing.

Norman Alexander · 28th February 2021, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

How could I have forgotten. It's only bad when conservatives do it, right?

Maybe conservatives did not stop other conservatives from hyperbolizing because they would get some kind of knee-jerk reaction accusing them of being "radical leftists" if they did.
It's amazing how we can demonize one group for not being able to police itself- then go off on members of our own side who point out when we are doing the same thing.

Touchy, aren't we.

Whatever makes you think the "other side" is a unified and consistent liberal bloc that always moves in lock-step and lock-speech with no internal disagreements? Have you learned NOTHING about the Democrats?

Distracted1 · 28th February 2021, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Touchy, aren't we.

Whatever makes you think the "other side" is a unified and consistent liberal bloc that always moves in lock-step and lock-speech with no internal disagreements? Have you learned NOTHING about the Democrats?

I guess having been a registered Democrat for the last 30+ years has been lost on me.

Craig4 · 28th February 2021, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks.
it's official: American Conservatives hate Science.

They're just so stupid. All these idiot Trump supporters, they barely even qualify as people. How to do these morons even negotiate airports?

Horatius · 28th February 2021, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Nova Land

Last year Segnosaur started a thread, Trump and the use of Nazi/fascist imagery, which included some prominent examples of Trump and his people engaging in this kind of behavior. Some of you might be interested in reviewing the content of that thread when considering this CPAC incident.

I think my post in that thread still stands, especially the last paragraph:

Originally Posted by Horatius

"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action."

That's a good rule to follow in such things. There's enough in common between national symbols (flags, eagles, stars, shapes, **** like that), that one or two similarities can probably happen by accident. I'm reminded of a talk I attended by the lead intellectual property officer for Target, the year they tried to move into the Canadian market, where he talked about how hard it was to find images for trademarks that hadn't already been used by someone else previously.

But when it keeps happening? And it seems they only "accidentally" copy the Nazis. When was the last time they "accidentally" copied a communist or socialist theme? Or any other identifiable political position, or country? They're not "accidentally" copying the Canadian or Mexican flags. Nope, it always seems to be the Nazis.

"Oh, tee-hee! That was just an accident!" only plays so many times before it's reasonable to conclude they're doing it deliberately.

Cavemonster · 28th February 2021, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

I think my post in that thread still stands, especially the last paragraph:

"Oh, tee-hee! That was just an accident!" only plays so many times before it's reasonable to conclude they're doing it deliberately.

That's the thing with pattern finding though. The only patterns that get found, are the ones people are looking for.

The pizzagate folks might say the same thing as you, why do these democrats keep using pedophile code images and words over and over?

If you look at a large enough selection of images and words with an aim in mind, you find matches to what you're looking for.

None of the pizzagate wackos are looking through leaked emails for phrases that look like Canadian pop song quotes, and if they noticed one, no one would think it were newsworthy enough to talk about.

If a GOP line from a speech or piece of imagery seemed to match up with something innocuous in the world, why would anyone point it out? You'd never read about it because no one cares.

I mean I do think there are neonazis in the party and people courting neonazis support. I'm just pointing out why "We only see this kind of reference" isn't a strong argument to back that up. No one is looking for secret socialist imagery in GOP stage design, and no one would think it was intentional or newsworthy if they noticed it, so we wouldn't hear about it.

angrysoba · 28th February 2021, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks.
it's official: American Conservatives hate Science.

And there I was thinking that climate change denial, opposition to renewable energy, abortion opposition, stem-cell research obstruction, denial of evolution, young Earth creationism, and evangelical Christianity were mere aberrations.

Distracted1 · 28th February 2021, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

That's the thing with pattern finding though. The only patterns that get found, are the ones people are looking for.

The pizzagate folks might say the same thing as you, why do these democrats keep using pedophile code images and words over and over?

If you look at a large enough selection of images and words with an aim in mind, you find matches to what you're looking for.

None of the pizzagate wackos are looking through leaked emails for phrases that look like Canadian pop song quotes, and if they noticed one, no one would think it were newsworthy enough to talk about.

If a GOP line from a speech or piece of imagery seemed to match up with something innocuous in the world, why would anyone point it out? You'd never read about it because no one cares.

I mean I do think there are neonazis in the party and people courting neonazis support. I'm just pointing out why "We only see this kind of reference" isn't a strong argument to back that up. No one is looking for secret socialist imagery in GOP stage design, and no one would think it was intentional or newsworthy if they noticed it, so we wouldn't hear about it.

Exactly.
Should not even need explaining of a Forum such as this one.

Brainster · 28th February 2021, 07:07 AM

It was a dog whistle and it appears the dogs are the only ones who heard it as usual.

wareyin · 28th February 2021, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

I guess having been a registered Democrat for the last 30+ years has been lost on me.

One of those totally not fake, no sir not at all, "Democrats for Trump" I take it? Sure, why not.

Distracted1 · 28th February 2021, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

One of those totally not fake, no sir not at all, "Democrats for Trump" I take it? Sure, why not.

Actually, just not one of those totally not-fake "skeptics" that see anything less than a reactionary "the other side is composed entirely of blood sucking troglodytes!!!!!!!1!1!" as "worship".

wareyin · 28th February 2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Actually, just not one of those totally not-fake "skeptics" that see anything less than a reactionary "the other side is composed entirely of blood sucking troglodytes!!!!!!!1!1!" as "worship".

Ok, let's say I believe that. How then do you describe the feelings of those who still follow Trump?

catsmate · 28th February 2021, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Shalamar

They have literally erected a golden statue of The Chosen One at CPAC for them to worship.

Made in Mexico.

Distracted1 · 28th February 2021, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Ok, let's say I believe that. How then do you describe the feelings of those who still follow Trump?

Like ourselves, they have various reasons for their opinions.

Some of the reasons, I imagine, involve digging in their heels against demonizing nonsense spouted by some members of our own side.

Let's suppose you were conservative now being accused of being a member of a secret Nazi cabal because of a resemblance to the shape of a stage to a symbol you have never seen or given any thought to. Would that make you more, or less receptive to any other reasoning the accusers were levying?

"Be reasonable you idol worshipping Nazi!" Might just have the effect of generating a "**** you" response from just about anyone.

Some people like engaging in **** slinging contests purely because they like bein covered in ****.

wareyin · 28th February 2021, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Like ourselves, they have various reasons for their opinions.

Some of the reasons, I imagine, involve digging in their heels against demonizing nonsense spouted by some members of our own side.

Let's suppose you were conservative now being accused of being a member of a secret Nazi cabal because of a resemblance to the shape of a stage to a symbol you have never seen or given any thought to. Would that make you more, or less receptive to any other reasoning the accusers were levying?

"Be reasonable you idol worshipping Nazi!" Might just have the effect of generating a "**** you" response from just about anyone.

Some people like engaging in **** slinging contests purely because they like bein covered in ****.

This doesn't answer the question. I didn't ask you to describe how the feel about being called Nazis, I asked how you would describe the devotion shown towards Trump as you are opposed to calling it worship.

Further, this fails to take into account the actual Nazi Trump followers discussed in this thread. Pretending that this latest use of Nazi imagery happened in a vacuum and has nothing to do with all the other uses of Nazi imagery and language is not a skeptical position.

d4m10n · 28th February 2021, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

It was a dog whistle and it appears the dogs are the only ones who heard it as usual.

Dogs are awesome. I hope we're the dogs in this metaphor.

sackett · 28th February 2021, 08:38 AM

That Hobbit Trumpf statue is almost certainly not even gold-washed.

Brass? Yeah, probably.

Matthew Best · 28th February 2021, 09:02 AM

This is absolutely hilarious.

The National Anthem for CPAC 2021 was sung acapella by someone called Sailor Sabol. She was dreadful.

Pianist Larry Goldings has tried to add a piano accompaniment to her rendition, so you can see how many times she went off key, off tempo, off world. It's painful and funny at the same time

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

kookbreaker · 28th February 2021, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by sackett

That Hobbit Trumpf statue is almost certainly not even gold-washed.

Brass? Yeah, probably.

I’m betting just plastic, like a cheap Christmas ornament.

sackett · 28th February 2021, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

I’m betting just plastic, like a cheap Christmas ornament.

Leave it out in the rain for a while. Then we'll see whether it turns green or just flakes away.

27th February 2021, 12:15 PM	#1
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,703	CPAC 2021 There appears to be an ongoing debate over whether the CPAC stage was deliberately designed to resemble an Odal_(rune)^WP or whether it's just a weird coincidence. pq1uscea9zj61.jpg https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cp...e-nazi-symbol/ https://twitter.com/allisongill/stat...0452824756224/ I'm sure there's all sorts of other weird **** going down as well, and I didn't see another thread on topic.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 27th February 2021 at 12:21 PM.

27th February 2021, 12:31 PM	#2
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 5,043	I'm going to go with: It was an intentional decision. It will be denied that it was an intentional decision. It's the fault of 'the left' for noticing the similarity, and thus, they are the true Nazis. The right demands One Party Rule.
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

27th February 2021, 12:41 PM	#4
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by Stacyhs The Commie, Socialist, Radical Lefties are just being DRAMATIC! LEAVE DONALD ALONE! /s They have literally erected a golden statue of The Chosen One at CPAC for them to worship. Conservatives are a cult.
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

27th February 2021, 12:43 PM	#5
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	plus, I hear they are drinking the blood of Muslim babies!!
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

27th February 2021, 12:46 PM	#6
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by Distracted1 plus, I hear they are drinking the blood of Muslim babies!! I've seen photos of the stage. I've seen the pictures of the Golden Trump. Have not heard of them drinking blood however. Evidence?
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

27th February 2021, 12:38 PM	#3
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	The Commie, Socialist, Radical Lefties are just being DRAMATIC! LEAVE DONALD ALONE! /s

27th February 2021, 01:00 PM	#7
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Shalamar I've seen photos of the stage. I've seen the pictures of the Golden Trump. Have not heard of them drinking blood however. Evidence? Its' something they do when they are "worshipping" the statue.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

27th February 2021, 01:10 PM	#8
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Its' something they do when they are "worshipping" the statue. Drinking Donnie's blood would be so like some US conservatives. Just as long as enough of them do it publicly, Donny and them will die. Then we can all move on from the madness and live better lives in a sane world. Drink up!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

27th February 2021, 01:18 PM	#9
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 5,043	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Its' something they do when they are "worshipping" the statue. I understand the sensitive snowflakes are upset about getting caught at it. I recall the times when the right wing was accusing Democrats of elevating, or worshiping Obama. Then I remember, it's only bad when a Democrat/liberal/leftist/porg does it. You can worship at the statue of The Chosen One all you want, Distracted1, the sane folk will just eye you oddly for it. Enjoy your Golden Calf.
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

27th February 2021, 02:44 PM	#10
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,581	Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks. it's official: American Conservatives hate Science.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

27th February 2021, 03:08 PM	#11
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,308	Originally Posted by dudalb Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks. it's official: American Conservatives hate Science. Certainly that didn't come as a surprise to you, did it? It's been official for years.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

27th February 2021, 05:21 PM	#12
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	The Trump Faithful are outside CPAC waiting for the Chosen One to appear and give them "guidance" as they're all "waiting to hear the next step" as one just told a reporter. Nope, they're not cultist at all. Not at all. I've never in my life waited for a politician to tell me what to do, least of all "next". These people need an authoritarian to tell them what to do because they can act on all their own racist or otherwise negative beliefs and avoid personal responsibility. They've not only been give permission to do so, they've been told to act on them.

27th February 2021, 05:43 PM	#13
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,663	Watching the pizzagate and qanon conspiracy theorists twist themselves in knots to find symbols everywhere, I'm especially reluctant to apply symbolic intention to abstract shapes when there's some possibility of coincidence. I'm not super familiar with the history and use of this shape. Stages with projections and walkways are pretty standard. Straight angles are massively cheaper to build than curves, so it isn't crazy to think this shape emergered. I'm not familiar enough with standard staging design to know what the process of designing a stage normally looks like. Heck, as far as I know the stage was already built and was a rental as is. All that said, the kind of people who use neonazi symbols are certainly no strangers to the GOP over the past few years especially. The same groups sporting Trump's quote of "stand back and stand by" on t-shirts were also spotted at another event wearing ones that said "6mwe" short for 6 million jews killed in the holocaust not being enough. Neonazis and other white supremacists really love their little symbols and secret codes, that's not supposition. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a meaningless coicidence. Or if it were a decision that someone in the process thought would send a message. Based on the "trolling as an admirable quality" new norm of the right that Trump has ushered in, I'd say there's at least a 20% chance that someone knew the symbol and picked it knowing that it might "trigger the libs" not necessarily to send a neo nazi message, but just because they knew people would spot it but not be able to prove it was intentional.
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,663	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON Last edited by Cavemonster; 27th February 2021 at 05:44 PM.

27th February 2021, 06:05 PM	#14
Nova Land / Tagger Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whitleyville, TN, surrounded by cats Posts: 5,969	Originally Posted by d4m10n There appears to be an ongoing debate over whether the CPAC stage was deliberately designed to resemble an Odal_(rune)^WP or whether it's just a weird coincidence. Snopes says it remains unproven (for now) whether this was a deliberate use of Nazi imagery or simply an odd coincidence that a group some of whose members have been known to associate with White Nationalists and other racists happened to choose a stage design which looks like a symbol used by the Nazis last century and being used by some of this centuries Nazi-wannabes. I think Snopes is right; it's not yet proven. But I think the odds are good that this was a deliberate choice on the part of at least some of the people who planned the conference. It's not like this would be the first time in recent history that right-wing Republicans chose to use Nazi imagery or to quote Nazis and fascists or to allude to things such people have said. Just last month, for instance, newly-elected Illinois congresswoman Mary Miller quoted Hitler approvingly the day before Trump supporters stormed the capitol. Last year Segnosaur started a thread, Trump and the use of Nazi/fascist imagery, which included some prominent examples of Trump and his people engaging in this kind of behavior. Some of you might be interested in reviewing the content of that thread when considering this CPAC incident. Originally Posted by Segnosaur We have recently seen a few cases where Trump and/or his campaign has started to use imagery related to Nazi Germany or 20th century Facism in general... -------------------- During the 2015 primaries, Trump tweets a picture of an American flag, with the white house and a group of soldiers in the background. However, the solders were actually wearing uniforms based on those used in Nazi Germany. CNN During the 2016 campaign, Trump quoted Mussolini. "It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep." Politico During the 2016 election, Trump tweeted a picture of Clinton, a bunch of cash, and a yellow star of David (the same symbol used to identify Jews in nazi concentration camps), which was widely thought to suggest "Clinton is being bribed by Jews". The campaign tried to explain it as being a "Sherrif's star", but the image had previously been posted in a racist forum. CNN Trump starts to adopt the phrase "America First". Now, that particular slogan had been in use for well over a centry (long before World War 1); however, it had been adopted by anti-interventionalists/pro-Nazi sympathizers during world war 2. The Guardian Trump campaign placed facebook ads waring people against 'far left' groups like Antifa. However, the message was accompanied by a red triangle, which was the same symbole used in Nazi concentration camps to denote political prisoners Forbes Trump tweets a video where a Trump supporter is clearly heard shouting "White Power". CNN Trump's campaign started to produce a shirt with an 'America First' theme. The problem is, the logo that was used (An eagle, wings spread, head facing right, and perched on a circle) was the same one used by Nazi germany. Forbes I think this past behavior of people on the right, and the failure of Trump supporters to condemn it when it was pointed out or to take steps to avoid this kind of thing continuing to happen, is good evidence that it was not accidental in the past, that they knew what they were doing and they had no problem doing it, and that the current incident is indeed the result of a deliberate choice rather than an embarrassing coincidence.

27th February 2021, 06:08 PM	#15
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,520	Originally Posted by d4m10n There appears to be an ongoing debate over whether the CPAC stage was deliberately designed to resemble an Odal_(rune)^WP or whether it's just a weird coincidence. Attachment 44323 https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cp...e-nazi-symbol/ https://twitter.com/allisongill/stat...0452824756224/ I'm sure there's all sorts of other weird **** going down as well, and I didn't see another thread on topic. Frankly, I wouldn't think any less of them if it turns out it were an odal rune anyway. When your featured speaker is a guy that proposed special armbands and lists for a disfavored religious group as a political promise (even if he broke it), you're past that line anyway. Other weirdness: "real Americans in diners" don't care about "esoteric" things, they're worried about the 10th amendment and the correct way to respond to the national anthem. Kimberly Guyrererwhateverwhocaes claims Toupee Fiscco will do more from his country club home than Biden and Harris will in the next 4 years. Did he do anything useful in his entire stint in the White House? As a rap fan, I'm used to listening to conspiracy theories in rhyme form, but this is a bit much. Anyway, I'm sure Marriot, and any local sex workers, are profiting nicely. Hope they're leaving decent tips for their waiters and the like this time, especially in COVID superspreader hateathon.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,520

27th February 2021, 06:50 PM	#16
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,703	Originally Posted by Mumbles Frankly, I wouldn't think any less of them if it turns out it were an odal rune anyway. When your featured speaker is a guy that proposed special armbands and lists for a disfavored religious group as a political promise (even if he broke it), you're past that line anyway. I don't recall this one.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

27th February 2021, 07:09 PM	#17
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,397	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't recall this one. Well, to be fair he didn't actually say it like that. He was asked during an interview if Muslims should have to be registered and required to wear some form of ID Badge and rather than saying "What a repulsive idea, making someone wear a badge displaying their religious belief is right out of 1930's Germany," he said "We're going to have to look at a lot of things very closely. We're going to have to look at the mosques. We're going to have to look very, very carefully." Later when asked what the difference between a Muslim Database where Muslims were required to register and the registration of Jews in Nazi Germany he replied, "You tell me," and then wouldn't respond to further questions on it. So no he didn't say it, but he strongly implied that it was an idea worthy of great consideration.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

27th February 2021, 08:00 PM	#18
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,891	Originally Posted by Mumbles .... As a rap fan, I'm used to listening to conspiracy theories in rhyme form, but this is a bit much. ... Is that Roger Stone dancing beside him?

27th February 2021, 10:12 PM	#19
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,970	Originally Posted by Mumbles As a rap fan, I'm used to listening to conspiracy theories in rhyme form, but this is a bit much.

28th February 2021, 03:22 AM	#20
Ladewig I lost an avatar bet. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 28,096	The other reason I think it was intentional is that all the people discussing this topic are are not discussing the painfully ignorant content of the speakers. No, Don, Jr. the Muppets have not been banned.
	__________________ I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

28th February 2021, 05:14 AM	#21
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Shalamar I understand the sensitive snowflakes are upset about getting caught at it. I recall the times when the right wing was accusing Democrats of elevating, or worshiping Obama. Then I remember, it's only bad when a Democrat/liberal/leftist/porg does it. You can worship at the statue of The Chosen One all you want, Distracted1, the sane folk will just eye you oddly for it. Enjoy your Golden Calf. How could I have forgotten. It's only bad when conservatives do it, right? Maybe conservatives did not stop other conservatives from hyperbolizing because they would get some kind of knee-jerk reaction accusing them of being "radical leftists" if they did. It's amazing how we can demonize one group for not being able to police itself- then go off on members of our own side who point out when we are doing the same thing.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. Last edited by Distracted1; 28th February 2021 at 05:16 AM.

28th February 2021, 05:57 AM	#22
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Distracted1 How could I have forgotten. It's only bad when conservatives do it, right? Maybe conservatives did not stop other conservatives from hyperbolizing because they would get some kind of knee-jerk reaction accusing them of being "radical leftists" if they did. It's amazing how we can demonize one group for not being able to police itself- then go off on members of our own side who point out when we are doing the same thing. Touchy, aren't we. Whatever makes you think the "other side" is a unified and consistent liberal bloc that always moves in lock-step and lock-speech with no internal disagreements? Have you learned NOTHING about the Democrats?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

28th February 2021, 05:59 AM	#23
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Touchy, aren't we. Whatever makes you think the "other side" is a unified and consistent liberal bloc that always moves in lock-step and lock-speech with no internal disagreements? Have you learned NOTHING about the Democrats? I guess having been a registered Democrat for the last 30+ years has been lost on me.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

28th February 2021, 06:04 AM	#24
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,883	Originally Posted by dudalb Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks. it's official: American Conservatives hate Science. They're just so stupid. All these idiot Trump supporters, they barely even qualify as people. How to do these morons even negotiate airports?

28th February 2021, 06:29 AM	#25
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,151	Originally Posted by Nova Land Last year Segnosaur started a thread, Trump and the use of Nazi/fascist imagery, which included some prominent examples of Trump and his people engaging in this kind of behavior. Some of you might be interested in reviewing the content of that thread when considering this CPAC incident. I think my post in that thread still stands, especially the last paragraph: Originally Posted by Horatius "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." That's a good rule to follow in such things. There's enough in common between national symbols (flags, eagles, stars, shapes, **** like that), that one or two similarities can probably happen by accident. I'm reminded of a talk I attended by the lead intellectual property officer for Target, the year they tried to move into the Canadian market, where he talked about how hard it was to find images for trademarks that hadn't already been used by someone else previously. But when it keeps happening? And it seems they only "accidentally" copy the Nazis. When was the last time they "accidentally" copied a communist or socialist theme? Or any other identifiable political position, or country? They're not "accidentally" copying the Canadian or Mexican flags. Nope, it always seems to be the Nazis. "Oh, tee-hee! That was just an accident!" only plays so many times before it's reasonable to conclude they're doing it deliberately.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

28th February 2021, 06:43 AM	#26
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,663	Originally Posted by Horatius I think my post in that thread still stands, especially the last paragraph: "Oh, tee-hee! That was just an accident!" only plays so many times before it's reasonable to conclude they're doing it deliberately. That's the thing with pattern finding though. The only patterns that get found, are the ones people are looking for. The pizzagate folks might say the same thing as you, why do these democrats keep using pedophile code images and words over and over? If you look at a large enough selection of images and words with an aim in mind, you find matches to what you're looking for. None of the pizzagate wackos are looking through leaked emails for phrases that look like Canadian pop song quotes, and if they noticed one, no one would think it were newsworthy enough to talk about. If a GOP line from a speech or piece of imagery seemed to match up with something innocuous in the world, why would anyone point it out? You'd never read about it because no one cares. I mean I do think there are neonazis in the party and people courting neonazis support. I'm just pointing out why "We only see this kind of reference" isn't a strong argument to back that up. No one is looking for secret socialist imagery in GOP stage design, and no one would think it was intentional or newsworthy if they noticed it, so we wouldn't hear about it.
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 6,663	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

28th February 2021, 06:52 AM	#27
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,611	Originally Posted by dudalb Just booed down a speaker when he asked the audeince to wear masks. it's official: American Conservatives hate Science. And there I was thinking that climate change denial, opposition to renewable energy, abortion opposition, stem-cell research obstruction, denial of evolution, young Earth creationism, and evangelical Christianity were mere aberrations.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

28th February 2021, 06:53 AM	#28
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Cavemonster That's the thing with pattern finding though. The only patterns that get found, are the ones people are looking for. The pizzagate folks might say the same thing as you, why do these democrats keep using pedophile code images and words over and over? If you look at a large enough selection of images and words with an aim in mind, you find matches to what you're looking for. None of the pizzagate wackos are looking through leaked emails for phrases that look like Canadian pop song quotes, and if they noticed one, no one would think it were newsworthy enough to talk about. If a GOP line from a speech or piece of imagery seemed to match up with something innocuous in the world, why would anyone point it out? You'd never read about it because no one cares. I mean I do think there are neonazis in the party and people courting neonazis support. I'm just pointing out why "We only see this kind of reference" isn't a strong argument to back that up. No one is looking for secret socialist imagery in GOP stage design, and no one would think it was intentional or newsworthy if they noticed it, so we wouldn't hear about it. Exactly. Should not even need explaining of a Forum such as this one.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

28th February 2021, 07:07 AM	#29
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	It was a dog whistle and it appears the dogs are the only ones who heard it as usual.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

28th February 2021, 07:15 AM	#30
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,561	Originally Posted by Distracted1 I guess having been a registered Democrat for the last 30+ years has been lost on me. One of those totally not fake, no sir not at all, "Democrats for Trump" I take it? Sure, why not.

28th February 2021, 07:35 AM	#31
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by wareyin One of those totally not fake, no sir not at all, "Democrats for Trump" I take it? Sure, why not. Actually, just not one of those totally not-fake "skeptics" that see anything less than a reactionary "the other side is composed entirely of blood sucking troglodytes!!!!!!!1!1!" as "worship".
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

28th February 2021, 07:48 AM	#32
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,561	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Actually, just not one of those totally not-fake "skeptics" that see anything less than a reactionary "the other side is composed entirely of blood sucking troglodytes!!!!!!!1!1!" as "worship". Ok, let's say I believe that. How then do you describe the feelings of those who still follow Trump?

28th February 2021, 08:07 AM	#33
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 24,345	Originally Posted by Shalamar They have literally erected a golden statue of The Chosen One at CPAC for them to worship. Made in Mexico.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th February 2021, 08:08 AM	#34
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by wareyin Ok, let's say I believe that. How then do you describe the feelings of those who still follow Trump? Like ourselves, they have various reasons for their opinions. Some of the reasons, I imagine, involve digging in their heels against demonizing nonsense spouted by some members of our own side. Let's suppose you were conservative now being accused of being a member of a secret Nazi cabal because of a resemblance to the shape of a stage to a symbol you have never seen or given any thought to. Would that make you more, or less receptive to any other reasoning the accusers were levying? "Be reasonable you idol worshipping Nazi!" Might just have the effect of generating a "** you" response from just about anyone. Some people like engaging in slinging contests purely because they like bein covered in **.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. Last edited by Distracted1; 28th February 2021 at 08:10 AM.

28th February 2021, 08:28 AM	#35
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,561	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Like ourselves, they have various reasons for their opinions. Some of the reasons, I imagine, involve digging in their heels against demonizing nonsense spouted by some members of our own side. Let's suppose you were conservative now being accused of being a member of a secret Nazi cabal because of a resemblance to the shape of a stage to a symbol you have never seen or given any thought to. Would that make you more, or less receptive to any other reasoning the accusers were levying? "Be reasonable you idol worshipping Nazi!" Might just have the effect of generating a "** you" response from just about anyone. Some people like engaging in slinging contests purely because they like bein covered in **. This doesn't answer the question. I didn't ask you to describe how the feel about being called Nazis, I asked how you would describe the devotion shown towards Trump as you are opposed to calling it worship. Further, this fails to take into account the actual Nazi Trump followers discussed in this thread. Pretending that this latest use of Nazi imagery happened in a vacuum and has nothing to do with all the other uses of Nazi imagery and language is not a skeptical position.