IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags arnold schwarzenegger , California issues , psychics , welfare issues

Reply
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:05 PM   #1
Questioninggeller
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,048
Schwarzenegger Bans Welfare Cards at Psychics

From ABC News:

Quote:
Schwarzenegger Bans Welfare Cards at Psychics

Schwarzenegger bans welfare cards at medical marijuana shops, psychics, other businesses
ABC News/Associated Press
November 2, 2010


Gov. Arnold Schwarzeneger says welfare recipients can no longer use state-issued debit cards at medical marijuana shops, psychics and other businesses whose services have been deemed "inconsistent with the intent" of the program.

The Los Angeles Times reports that Schwarzenegger sent a letter to county welfare directors Monday announcing that ATMS and point-of-sale card readers in such businesses will be removed from the network that accepts California's Electronic Benefits Transfer cards.
...
Full: ABC News/Associated Press
Questioninggeller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:09 PM   #2
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,623
I'd say "Yay!" but it's likely to last only until Gov. Moonbeam takes the Oath of Office.
__________________
Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory;
Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things;
and Knowledge is the reasoned belief in provable things.
Belief itself proves nothing.
Fnord is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:11 PM   #3
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Saw that in the news yesterday. Frankly, I was surprised that the debit cards could be used at psychics. Who's brilliant idea was that?

Medical marijuana might be another story. If you have a prescription, that's a suggestion that it is a necessity rather than purely discretionary.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:14 PM   #4
DallasDad
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 903
Doesn't everyone in California have a prescription for medical marijuana? I understood they were given out with driver's licenses now.
DallasDad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:31 PM   #5
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
Doesn't everyone in California have a prescription for medical marijuana? I understood they were given out with driver's licenses now.
kinda like giving a free beer to everyone who passes the driving test on friday.

But, I wonder if there are any other prescription drugs you cannot buy with your California welfare debit card. I doubt it. In fact, it sounds like the restriction is only by merchant, not by item. so, I can max out my card buying ammunition at Wal-Mart, but I can't pick up a lid to enjoy the shooting? Bogus.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:41 PM   #6
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
You know i don't know how to feel about this. When i originally saw the pot shops, i assumed they were talking about , what we reefer ( i had to, sorry) to in canada as " hemp shops." , the place where you go to buy your bong, your pipe screens, your flavoring agents, Special tobacco ( and i am legitimately talking about special tobacco. Like imported tobacco, not pot.) , etc. And i would be down with that, the government shouldn't be paying to get you baked, help get you baked, or making your getting baked experience more enjoyable.

But medical pot? Really? That just seems wrong to me, if someone has it prescribed, it is legal, if they are going to a store that has been through all the proper paperwork, that is legal, so what is the problem? It would seem to me, like if i were in a position of power, and due to the plague of prescription abuse that is going on ( 1/3rd of all scripts given out in my province are false.) , i decided to make it so that those on welfare can no longer use their ODB (ontario drug benefit.) on prescribed narcotics.

As a bit of a thought experiment, if pot were legal, and sold in the same way as booze, i would support the decision.

The rest, i agree with. Welfare should be to keep you reasonably comfortable, in good health and in no danger ( due to living on the street, or without heat for example. ) , not to let you get messed up, or indulge in other expense laden recreational activities. I am not saying that there should be no money given to those on welfare for recreation, but that certain activities, are simply not something the government should pay for.

As a final thought ( and i think this may come of as cold. ), most people get messed up ( drinking, for example.) to relieve stress from work/school. If one is not going to school or working, ( and having their way payed for.) They shouldn't be drinking, they should be using this time to learn a new skill , to get gainful employment, so they can not be a drain on the system. Then if they want to use their own money to buy a Texas micky of southern comfort, and a joint bigger than my arm, let them. Quite literally, they earned it.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 01:45 PM   #7
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
kinda like giving a free beer to everyone who passes the driving test on friday.

But, I wonder if there are any other prescription drugs you cannot buy with your California welfare debit card. I doubt it. In fact, it sounds like the restriction is only by merchant, not by item. so, I can max out my card buying ammunition at Wal-Mart, but I can't pick up a lid to enjoy the shooting? Bogus.
....lid? I assume it is a dope reference, but i have never heard it myself. ARe you maybe thinking of the phonetic pronunciation of LB ( often used) ? Or is it a regional dialect thing? I am not trying to say " you don't know your dope" at all, just wondering out of curiosity. I found out fairly recently that in some areas "Shake " refers to very good pot. While here it is the opposite. So by no means am i Tommy chong, with infallible dope knowledge.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 02:03 PM   #8
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
....lid? I assume it is a dope reference, but i have never heard it myself. ARe you maybe thinking of the phonetic pronunciation of LB ( often used) ? Or is it a regional dialect thing? I am not trying to say " you don't know your dope" at all, just wondering out of curiosity. I found out fairly recently that in some areas "Shake " refers to very good pot. While here it is the opposite. So by no means am i Tommy chong, with infallible dope knowledge.
you must be a lot younger than I am. In old hippie lingo a "lid" refers to a quantity of marijuana - typically an ounce.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 02:22 PM   #9
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
you must be a lot younger than I am. In old hippie lingo a "lid" refers to a quantity of marijuana - typically an ounce.
Really, that is interesting information. Is it regional, or something fairly common? I honestly find dope slang history and mutability almost as entertaining as the product itself, lol.

Btw, i am 25 so more than likely a bit , at the least, younger than you are.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 04:20 PM   #10
dlorde
Philosopher
 
dlorde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,859
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Really, that is interesting information. Is it regional, or something fairly common? I honestly find dope slang history and mutability almost as entertaining as the product itself, lol.
From my wheezing, staggering student days of the 60s & 70's, I remember the term as an American one not much used in the south-east UK, unless giggling about the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers...

Quote:
Btw, i am 25 so more than likely a bit , at the least, younger than you are.
That probably explains it
dlorde is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 08:41 PM   #11
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,623
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
....lid? I assume it is a dope reference, but i have never heard it myself.
Dude! I mean, like, DOOOOOOOOD!

A lid is like, an ounce, man! They like, put it on a scale and weigh it!

And a nickel bag is like, five ounces, man! And a dime bag is like, now get this, man, ten ounces! That's enough for like, ten joints, or one huge FATTIE!!!

DOOOOOOOOD! I gettina munchies jus thinkin bout it!
__________________
Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory;
Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things;
and Knowledge is the reasoned belief in provable things.
Belief itself proves nothing.
Fnord is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 09:19 PM   #12
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
And a nickel bag is like, five ounces, man! And a dime bag is like, now get this, man, ten ounces! That's enough for like, ten joints, or one huge FATTIE!!!
Doood, I was totally getting ripped off in high school! I'd pay, like, $10 for a dime bag, but it was never anything like 10 oz, bro. But, that's probably a good thing, too, cuz I would have been b-a-k-e-d.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 09:33 PM   #13
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 26,247
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Really, that is interesting information. Is it regional, or something fairly common? I honestly find dope slang history and mutability almost as entertaining as the product itself, lol.

Btw, i am 25 so more than likely a bit , at the least, younger than you are.

It was very common in the U.S. when I was younger. I don't know of anywhere in the country where it wouldn't have been recognized by those who indulged.


And yes, you are younger than I am. You're also younger than my youngest son.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 3rd November 2010 at 09:34 PM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2010, 11:13 PM   #14
Brattus
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,290
Well I certainly understand no pot for the dirt poor trash. The booze they can still buy with my money should be enough to keep them jobless, homeless and worthless.

What I don't understand in why they can't waste my money on psychics. How else are the illegal aliens gonna know when their one true love is gonna show up or when they will hit the lottery. (Using more of my money to buy the lottery tickets of course.)
Brattus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 04:11 AM   #15
Percent
Thinker
 
Percent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Doood, I was totally getting ripped off in high school! I'd pay, like, $10 for a dime bag, but it was never anything like 10 oz, bro. But, that's probably a good thing, too, cuz I would have been b-a-k-e-d.

Are we having fun yet?

From my college days in the late 70's, early 80's: nickle bag was also know as "one finger" (for the width of weed across the bottom of the baggie) and was a quarter ounce. Dime bag was two fingers, a half ounce. $5 and $10, respectively. I think all we got was Minnesota ditch weed. Whee.

One of the jokes we had out here (I moved to CA for grad school and stayed) with Gov. Moonbeam, during his first administration, was that the official state cookie should be the Moon Pie, for the appeal to people with the munchies as well as an homage to Brown.


Anne
__________________
"I'm trying to think but nothing happens." -- Curly Howard

"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper, Unended Quest
Percent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 04:29 AM   #16
aggle-rithm
Ardent Formulist
 
aggle-rithm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 15,334
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
But medical pot? Really? That just seems wrong to me, if someone has it prescribed, it is legal, if they are going to a store that has been through all the proper paperwork, that is legal, so what is the problem? It would seem to me, like if i were in a position of power, and due to the plague of prescription abuse that is going on ( 1/3rd of all scripts given out in my province are false.) , i decided to make it so that those on welfare can no longer use their ODB (ontario drug benefit.) on prescribed narcotics.
The difference is that Mexicans smoke pot, and they don't take prescription narcotics.

If we get rid of the pot, the theory goes, we get rid of the Mexicans.

It hasn't worked too well so far.
__________________
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.
aggle-rithm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 04:46 AM   #17
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Saw that in the news yesterday. Frankly, I was surprised that the debit cards could be used at psychics. Who's brilliant idea was that?

Medical marijuana might be another story. If you have a prescription, that's a suggestion that it is a necessity rather than purely discretionary.
The idea was that there was a move away from the food stamp coupons, which created this huge second economy for businesses. The coupons had to be printed, distributed, then redeemed, which created a huge amount of side costs. In the 1990s Illinois moved to what was called the LINK system, which was the equivalent of an ATM card that retailers who sold food could use, the idea was to reduce the costs of the system. The other issue being the idea that this would reduce the black market exchange of food stamp coupons for cash at usually a 50% rate.

Now the issue that has probably happened in California is that they have switched to standard style debit cards and also combined the food stamp programs with the cash assistance program. But this would have been a huge oversight by the state administration.
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 04:49 AM   #18
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Dude! I mean, like, DOOOOOOOOD!

A lid is like, an ounce, man! They like, put it on a scale and weigh it!
Nope a lid is a lid actually (or so i was told by older dopers) , it was a volume measure as opposed to a weight measure, allegedly the lid to a Prince Albert can or some such.
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 06:23 AM   #19
Cuddles
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,590
They'll be back.
Cuddles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 06:47 AM   #20
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Nope a lid is a lid actually (or so i was told by older dopers) , it was a volume measure as opposed to a weight measure, allegedly the lid to a Prince Albert can or some such.
I have heard this, too. But this definitely migrated to lid=ounce by the early seventies. At least where I lived.

Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Now the issue that has probably happened in California is that they have switched to standard style debit cards and also combined the food stamp programs with the cash assistance program. But this would have been a huge oversight by the state administration.
Yes, that's what I was thinking. I've stood behind people buying food with their public assistance cards here in NC and they have to segregate their groceries into two orders: stuff they can put on the assistance card and stuff they cannot. The POS terminal will refuse some things when the public assistance card is used (I assume the cashier has to tell it in advance what the payment type will be?).

I assumed this was the rule nationwide, but apparently not.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 06:50 AM   #21
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,623
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Doood, I was totally getting ripped off in high school! I'd pay, like, $10 for a dime bag, but it was never anything like 10 oz, bro. But, that's probably a good thing, too, cuz I would have been b-a-k-e-d.
Yeah, there were no set standards. A "Dime Bag" to some meant "High Grade" (uncut, with no stems or seeds), while to others it meant "Ten Ounces". Ten dollars worth of Michigan Drainage Ditch wouldn't do much, back then (1970s).
__________________
Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory;
Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things;
and Knowledge is the reasoned belief in provable things.
Belief itself proves nothing.
Fnord is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 07:02 AM   #22
Percent
Thinker
 
Percent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 127
Yes, CA uses the IL and NC style debit/ATM cards you guys are describing. The earlier scandal out here was that these were being used at bars and strip clubs. No big surprise about the pot stores but I have to admit the psychics was a new one to me. A lot of cash back under the table (after it moves around).
__________________
"I'm trying to think but nothing happens." -- Curly Howard

"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper, Unended Quest
Percent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 08:05 AM   #23
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 26,247
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
I have heard this, too. But this definitely migrated to lid=ounce by the early seventies. At least where I lived.

<snip>


This was my experience as well. I never encountered anyone selling by volume (excluding Mk1 Eyeball of course, which happened frequently enough), and that experience included enough instances across enough geography that if it had been very common I ought to have run across it a time or two. I can't speak with any personal knowledge of anything before '68, but by then a lid was just a bag of herb somewhat approximating the size of an oz.

It sounds perfectly plausible, though, and the proportions would work out pretty close, assuming a certain amount of loft on the pile on the lid. I just never ran across anyone actually doing it.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 4th November 2010 at 08:08 AM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 08:14 AM   #24
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 26,247
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Yeah, there were no set standards. A "Dime Bag" to some meant "High Grade" (uncut, with no stems or seeds), while to others it meant "Ten Ounces". Ten dollars worth of Michigan Drainage Ditch wouldn't do much, back then (1970s).

There were set standards if people made specific claims of weight. Scales were common enough that arguments could easily ensue if someone was shortchanged. I agree that many transactions were not made on the basis of any such claim though, just "Well, I want this much money for this much." Most exchanges of an oz. or more generally involved some assurance of weight. Dime and nickel bags were for pikers and dilettantes.

I never once met anyone anywhere who thought a dime bag meant ten ounces. If I had I would have immediately figured them for a nark.

Yes, narks were often that ignorant and transparent.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 4th November 2010 at 08:18 AM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 01:54 PM   #25
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,623
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
... I never once met anyone anywhere who thought a dime bag meant ten ounces. If I had I would have immediately figured them for a nark. Yes, narks were often that ignorant and transparent.
That explains it, then. It was a narcotics cop who said that "a dime bag is ten ounces" during an anti-drug lecture in 9th grade Social Studies (1970-1971). I never did bother to check it out.
__________________
Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory;
Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things;
and Knowledge is the reasoned belief in provable things.
Belief itself proves nothing.
Fnord is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 02:28 PM   #26
bookitty
Philosopher
 
bookitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,732
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Saw that in the news yesterday. Frankly, I was surprised that the debit cards could be used at psychics. Who's brilliant idea was that?

Medical marijuana might be another story. If you have a prescription, that's a suggestion that it is a necessity rather than purely discretionary.
It is merely a whiff of a suggestion. You can get a medical marijuana for nearly anything from glaucoma to insomnia. There are doctors who specialize in pot prescriptions. Finding them is easy, they advertise in the paper. I have heard that chiropractors can issue a prescription but haven't verified that.

Nearly every "card-carrying" pot head I know was a casual user before and is a legal user now. With the exception of one cancer-victim who still buys pot even though he's now healthy, none of them had an illness that necessitated pot.

Even for people who have a prescription, medical marijuana has problems. It is impossible to regulate a consistent dose, for one. Personally I'm opposed to the idea of largely untested substances being sold by prescription.
__________________
No more cupcakes for me, thanks.
bookitty is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 02:34 PM   #27
Olowkow
Philosopher
 
Olowkow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,230
Quote:
Schwarzenegger Bans Welfare Cards at Psychics
Does anyone know how they define "psychic" so as to exclude religions?
Olowkow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 02:52 PM   #28
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
A more interesting aspect of this issue is the fact with debit cards for welfare payments instead of checks, the state knows what you are spending your money on. I wonder if it took legislation to start defining what someone on welfare may or may not purchase? Are alcohol and cigarettes also not allowed? Junk food? Porn? How about violent video games? How about anything that isn't a necessity like video games in general?

What an opportunity here to provide just food, shelter and other necessities for people on welfare. On the other hand, if someone is on state or federal disability, (as opposed to a private policy) do we impose the same restrictions?


As for other prescription drugs, lots of state Medicaid programs have limited formularies for covered drugs. The first one I looked up, New Jersey, says pot is not a covered drug. The OP article is about welfare payments, not medical coverage. In most states (maybe all?) if you are on welfare you qualify for state Medicaid medical coverage. But they are separate programs.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 02:53 PM   #29
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by Olowkow View Post
Does anyone know how they define "psychic" so as to exclude religions?
Do they take debit cards now at the collection basket? I suppose that was inevitable.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 02:55 PM   #30
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Saw that in the news yesterday. Frankly, I was surprised that the debit cards could be used at psychics. Who's brilliant idea was that?...
Of course they can and so can cone use redit cards. Lots of psychics have commercial outlets just like any business. And at psychic fairs, just like at art fairs, a lot of individuals take debit and credit cards.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 4th November 2010 at 03:15 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:20 PM   #31
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Nope a lid is a lid actually (or so i was told by older dopers) , it was a volume measure as opposed to a weight measure, allegedly the lid to a Prince Albert can or some such.
You were told so it must be a fact.

When I was a teen, a lid was an ounce. The idea the term came from the volume of an actual lid is interesting though. Never heard that before.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:29 PM   #32
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
..That just seems wrong to me, if someone has it prescribed, it is legal, if they are going to a store that has been through all the proper paperwork, that is legal, so what is the problem? It would seem to me, like if i were in a position of power, and due to the plague of prescription abuse that is going on ( 1/3rd of all scripts given out in my province are false.) , i decided to make it so that those on welfare can no longer use their ODB (ontario drug benefit.) on prescribed narcotics.

As a bit of a thought experiment, if pot were legal, and sold in the same way as booze, i would support the decision.

The rest, i agree with. Welfare should be to keep you reasonably comfortable, in good health and in no danger ( due to living on the street, or without heat for example. ) , not to let you get messed up, or indulge in other expense laden recreational activities. I am not saying that there should be no money given to those on welfare for recreation, but that certain activities, are simply not something the government should pay for.

As a final thought ( and i think this may come of as cold. ), most people get messed up ( drinking, for example.) to relieve stress from work/school. If one is not going to school or working, ( and having their way payed for.) They shouldn't be drinking, they should be using this time to learn a new skill , to get gainful employment, so they can not be a drain on the system. Then if they want to use their own money to buy a Texas micky of southern comfort, and a joint bigger than my arm, let them. Quite literally, they earned it.
Your point is also grounds for some big lawsuit by the ACLU. That's why I asked if this was the guvnor acting on his own, legislation or what. I doubt it is constitutional (state constitution) for the guvnor to start telling welfare recipients which legal products they can purchase, unless there is legislation that provides for lots of restricted things.

But the fact pot has a duel status, legal in the state, illegal in the country, could give the state the edge in a lawsuit. But the psychic? That's surely going to end up in court.

In this state, one type of welfare was going to alcoholics who were too brain damaged to work. Rather than give them a check twice a month, the state changed to paying their rent and utilities and whatever, through a third party. If I recall, the money manager could be someone the alcoholic chose, but the money had to go to rent and utilities and that was audited.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 4th November 2010 at 03:30 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:33 PM   #33
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Doood, I was totally getting ripped off in high school! I'd pay, like, $10 for a dime bag, but it was never anything like 10 oz, bro. But, that's probably a good thing, too, cuz I would have been b-a-k-e-d.
Is that a Cheech and Chong quote or something?

A "dime" means $10 and a nickel is $5. The volume depends on the drug, the neighborhood and the decade.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 4th November 2010 at 03:37 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:36 PM   #34
Olowkow
Philosopher
 
Olowkow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,230
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
A more interesting aspect of this issue is the fact with debit cards for welfare payments instead of checks, the state knows what you are spending your money on. I wonder if it took legislation to start defining what someone on welfare may or may not purchase? Are alcohol and cigarettes also not allowed?.....
Back in the early '70s I got food stamps for a short while, and when I discovered that I couldn't buy beer with them, we bought the malt and sugar and made our own.
Olowkow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:36 PM   #35
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
The idea was that there was a move away from the food stamp coupons, which created this huge second economy for businesses. The coupons had to be printed, distributed, then redeemed, which created a huge amount of side costs. In the 1990s Illinois moved to what was called the LINK system, which was the equivalent of an ATM card that retailers who sold food could use, the idea was to reduce the costs of the system. The other issue being the idea that this would reduce the black market exchange of food stamp coupons for cash at usually a 50% rate.

Now the issue that has probably happened in California is that they have switched to standard style debit cards and also combined the food stamp programs with the cash assistance program. But this would have been a huge oversight by the state administration.
Food stamps (now dispensed by debit card in all states, I'm pretty sure) is also separate from a welfare debit card and medical coupons that you use to pay for medical services if you are on Medicaid.

See my earlier post #28.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 4th November 2010 at 03:37 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:40 PM   #36
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
I have heard this, too. But this definitely migrated to lid=ounce by the early seventies. At least where I lived.



Yes, that's what I was thinking. I've stood behind people buying food with their public assistance cards here in NC and they have to segregate their groceries into two orders: stuff they can put on the assistance card and stuff they cannot. The POS terminal will refuse some things when the public assistance card is used (I assume the cashier has to tell it in advance what the payment type will be?).

I assumed this was the rule nationwide, but apparently not.
But that could have been specific food stamp program, an actual welfare payment, or some program like WIC (women infants and children) which provides some specific nutritional products for pregnant women and mothers with young children.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:44 PM   #37
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 87,767
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Yeah, there were no set standards. A "Dime Bag" to some meant "High Grade" (uncut, with no stems or seeds), while to others it meant "Ten Ounces". Ten dollars worth of Michigan Drainage Ditch wouldn't do much, back then (1970s).
10 ounces of pot is not exactly the amount an average user would be buying. If someone is buying 10 ounces, even back in the 70s, chances are they were splitting it up for resale.

I could see the slang meaning high quality or something besides $10. That's the nature of slang. But I can't imagine 5 oz or 10 oz ever being a common quantity for purchase. At that quantity one usually buys a pound or a kilo or half of either if those.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:55 PM   #38
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Originally Posted by bookitty View Post
Even for people who have a prescription, medical marijuana has problems. It is impossible to regulate a consistent dose, for one. Personally I'm opposed to the idea of largely untested substances being sold by prescription.
Oh yes, I understand that and I agree. It should be legal and regulated as tobacco an alcohol, not sold by prescription under the guise of medicine. But the State chose to recognize marijuana as a medicine by authorizing and licensing clinics to dispense the stuff by prescription (and only by prescription).

So, on the one hand the State is acknowledging that marijuana is a legitimate medicine that anyone can use if they have a prescription. On the other hand the State says welfare recipients can't buy marijuana with their public assistance funds, even if they have a prescription and a very real medical need.

One kinda puts the lie to the other. The state is saying both "marijuana is a legitimate medicine" and "marijuana is not a legitimate medicine".

Are there any other prescription drugs California denies to those on public assistance? I bet not.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 03:59 PM   #39
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,401
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Of course they can and so can cone use redit cards. Lots of psychics have commercial outlets just like any business. And at psychic fairs, just like at art fairs, a lot of individuals take debit and credit cards.
As I said, my experience with the cards in NC is that they are NOT just like debit/credit cards. There are built in limits to what can be purchased. Alcohol and tobacco are on the blocked list, for instance. That's why I was surprised they could be used at psychics in CA. It sounds like CA has/had NO restrictions to how the cards could be used. I find this ridiculous.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2010, 04:10 PM   #40
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 26,247
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
As I said, my experience with the cards in NC is that they are NOT just like debit/credit cards. There are built in limits to what can be purchased. Alcohol and tobacco are on the blocked list, for instance. That's why I was surprised they could be used at psychics in CA. It sounds like CA has/had NO restrictions to how the cards could be used. I find this ridiculous.

In NC people can buy candy with their assistance cards at the grocery store, but not toothpaste.

Go figure.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:17 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.