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Old 5th August 2014, 10:41 AM   #241
dasmiller
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Someone needs to be in charge, but who and how are they selected?
I would like to say upfront that, if nominated, I will not run, and if elected, I will not serve. Of course, a second term would be out the question. And it would be the height of absurdity to change the constitution to allow me to be in charge for life.

Just sayin'




(with apologies to Pat Paulson)
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Old 5th August 2014, 10:46 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
The California law you cited doesn't state that it's illegal for the JREF to transfer ownership of the website and thus the private information. In fact a proposed amendment implicitly acknowledges that the information can be sold, which is in the link you cited. "include a statement indicating whether the personally identifiable information may be sold or shared with others, and if so, how and with whom the information may be shared."

If it can't be sold, then why have a statement saying that it can be?

Your interpretation of the privacy policy does not pass legal muster. "Does not sell" personal information is not the same thing as "will not sell the whole thing including your info incidentally." Their policy describes what they do with the information. It does not prohibit them from selling the whole shebang. It's not like your info is being sold to marketers. which is really what these policies are about.

A case can be made that transferring ownership and maintaining the same privacy policy is not really a violation of the policy of not selling the info. In effect you gave the information to the people who run the forum. It is a reasonable expectation that if the forum transfers ownership that your info goes to whoever will run the forum next. The privacy policy is really about the owner, who needs the info, not sharing it with people who don't need it.

It is not a reasonable expectation that a forum will never transfer ownership.

Absent an explicit contract lawyers will argue what the intention was. There is nothing explicitly prohibiting the JREF from simply transferring ownership of the board.

More importantly contract violations are not "against the law" like you claimed. They're just contract violations that can be remedied in civil but not criminal court. The simple remedy is what the JREF will probably do, which is send out an e-mail telling people what's going on and giving them the opportunity to have their names and location scrubbed from the database and their accounts disabled.
When Google bought YouTube, I'm pretty sure the user accounts went along with the sale.
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Old 5th August 2014, 10:50 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
May I suggest that as the new caretaker that you not speculate publicly about what might happen? It's more likely to do harm than good.
I disagree, I want to know what he's thinking.
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Old 5th August 2014, 10:54 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Besides the privacy issue, the biggest problem I foresee is that we lose our benevolent dictator. Decisions that many may disagree with but were probably for the best could just be chalked up to: "That's what JREF wants. It's their forum, their rules." I always felt that JREF having the final say was a needed safety valve.

Where it's hosted and how privacy laws are followed are some of the lesser issues really. Those are just technical problems. We are going to have political issues. I agree with Wolfman, we may be heading to a battle royale over the direction of the forum. Someone needs to be in charge, but who and how are they selected?
I suggest we run it like a modern western democracy and offer voting rights proportional to $$$ donated.

More seriously I hope Darat is willing to continue in his role. We've exchanged several messages and I know he very much would like the forum to remain a part of JREF and believes it has value as part of JREF. I think most of us, as participants, agree with him. The JREF board clearly doesn't and I can also see their perspective - financially, legally, and politically it's more likely a burden than a blessing.

The first thing I hope to improve (along with getting things stable obviously) is communication. I get the distinct impression the forum admins (and to a lesser extent mods) have felt out of the loop and uninvolved in the decision-making process. Not just now, but for years. I can perfectly understand how they'd feel saddened and perhaps betrayed by the board's decision, given the years of work they've put in.

So again, I encourage everyone to throw in their 2 cents. We'll never make everyone happy, but we can at least make an attempt!
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:24 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
...
More seriously I hope Darat is willing to continue in his role. We've exchanged several messages and I know he very much would like the forum to remain a part of JREF and believes it has value as part of JREF. I think most of us, as participants, agree with him. The JREF board clearly doesn't and I can also see their perspective - financially, legally, and politically it's more likely a burden than a blessing.

...

So again, I encourage everyone to throw in their 2 cents. We'll never make everyone happy, but we can at least make an attempt! ...
icerat, do you think you could convince D. J. Grothe and Rick Adams (respectively, President and Secretary of the Randi Foundation, according to wikipedia) to join this discussion on the Future of the Forum, and explain their point of view?
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:25 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
The JREF board clearly doesn't and I can also see their perspective - financially, legally, and politically it's more likely a burden than a blessing.
Sure, if they take a short-sighted view and forget that the forum helped create TAM and transformed the organization into a community.


Quote:
I get the distinct impression the forum admins (and to a lesser extent mods) have felt out of the loop and uninvolved in the decision-making process.
That might have something to do with the fact that this thread was the first inkling any of us had that this was going on.

Quote:
Not just now, but for years. I can perfectly understand how they'd feel saddened and perhaps betrayed by the board's decision, given the years of work they've put in.

So again, I encourage everyone to throw in their 2 cents. We'll never make everyone happy, but we can at least make an attempt!
My $.02 is that this is a slap in the face to all members, mods, and admins.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:27 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
I suggest we run it like a modern western democracy and offer voting rights proportional to $$$ donated.

More seriously I hope Darat is willing to continue in his role. We've exchanged several messages and I know he very much would like the forum to remain a part of JREF and believes it has value as part of JREF. I think most of us, as participants, agree with him. The JREF board clearly doesn't and I can also see their perspective - financially, legally, and politically it's more likely a burden than a blessing.

The first thing I hope to improve (along with getting things stable obviously) is communication. I get the distinct impression the forum admins (and to a lesser extent mods) have felt out of the loop and uninvolved in the decision-making process. Not just now, but for years. I can perfectly understand how they'd feel saddened and perhaps betrayed by the board's decision, given the years of work they've put in.

So again, I encourage everyone to throw in their 2 cents. We'll never make everyone happy, but we can at least make an attempt!
I agree. The personal data issue is easy to deal with. The fact of a new "regime" is irrelevant if the same mods and admins are doing the very same thing that they have always done.

There remains the question, though, that if the forum is no longer fettered by JREF, can or should the rules be changed? That is a question outside the remit of the practicality of sustaining this forum.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:30 AM   #248
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It might work out. Don't know.

It was the governance policies that made this forum so worthwhile IMO, and by implication those who policed them. If that stays the same all well and good but I doubt that it will since all that has to be stitched up again on the fly by presumably different folks.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:31 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by lauwersw View Post
It smells indeed like a software scaling problem, which is best solved in the application, but you could improve a lot with better hardware of course.
Nice input on the stats, thanks! The only difficulty is that the application itself is a commercial product and getting into it and making custom changes is definitely doable, but then you rapidly create completely custom software that can no longer be upgraded.. and I've seen forums that do that; run on highly customized versions of really old forum software that manually patch in security fixes and such, but you need developers who can and will do that kind of thing.

But it is a good point, for very large forums I followed one forum admin through his large forum changes with different versions of vBulletin and then his migration to Xenforo, and one of his findings was that Xenforo used about half the resources of vBulletin(EDIT: Rather he could serve pages twice as fast on the same hardware). His forum was larger than this one and was scaled properly before the move so the resource usage difference on this forum's hardware might not be the same, but your point is still valid.


Originally Posted by lauwersw View Post
I would concentrate on the disks first, no the CPU. Any chance you can take some "top" snapshots at peak load, or more vmstats, maybe that will show a different picture?
Yeah a single 10k Raptor for the MySQL database seems like it would become a bottleneck especially if images are being stored as blobs in it.

Originally Posted by lauwersw View Post
Another thing: while vmstat is good for immediate problem solving, it's useful to setup permanent monitoring, which gives you a picture of your system over time. An example is http://munin-monitoring.org/ (there are many others).
Heh I'd never heard of that one before but just got off a conference call with a client and they use it too, the systems guy I work with likes Zabbix.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:34 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
May I suggest that as the new caretaker that you not speculate publicly about what might happen? It's more likely to do harm than good.
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I disagree, I want to know what he's thinking.
I thought it might be best to come up with a strategy privately with the people who've been most invested (admins/mods etc) and then put it up for discussion, but the way the thread has gone I think it's best now just to be out in the open with all members.

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
icerat, do you think you could convince D. J. Grothe and Rick Adams (respectively, President and Secretary of the Randi Foundation, according to wikipedia) to join this discussion on the Future of the Forum, and explain their point of view?
Sharon, ball is in your court on that one.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:41 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
It might work out. Don't know.

It was the governance policies that made this forum so worthwhile IMO, and by implication those who policed them. If that stays the same all well and good but I doubt that it will since all that has to be stitched up again on the fly by presumably different folks.
What governance policies were those?
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:47 AM   #252
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The forum conduct rules and their implementation.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:58 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
Personally, I am flabbergasted that the JREF would give up an asset this valuable. Most non-profits would be thrilled to have an active board this size (or of any size for that matter). The fact that they haven't figured out how to leverage it to further their goals reflects poorly on those in charge.
Value is relative. I remember JREF saying that there is very little conversion from forum membership to JREF membership. I'm not a JREF member, are you?

A non-profit very often has to make very difficult decisions. With the Challenge pretty much dormant that lessens the need to JREF for this forum. It sounds like they are trying to narrow the focus of JREF and in doing so, the forum will fall outside the new focus.

As far as TAM goes, isn't it at the point where it can survive independent of the forum?

There have been lawsuits and threatened lawsuits over the years because of the forum. Getting a lawyer to just respond to the threats is not cheap and never mind the occasional lawsuit. No matter how ridiculous (yes, I'm talking about you George), it still costs money.

This forum is the only one I participate in on a regular basis. And as much as I love this forum, I can still understand JREF wanting to jettison it. We should stop worrying about that since it appears to be a fait accompli. We need to worry about the future. We've been handed lemons, so let's sell the lemons and buy some crack. Is that how that saying goes?
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:06 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I'd rather wait and see what the JREF's position regarding the forum is, before making plans to go solo. As I understand it, TAM would not have happened without the forum. Certainly I would not have heard of TAM otherwise, nor attended half a dozen. The forum provides the volunteers and TAMbassadors that help run TAM, as well as providing scholarships for those unable to afford the cost. Of course, some of could still happen without the forum, but I think participation would be lower.

Indeed. The forums started in mid 2001, and it rapidly gathered a lot of people avid of socializing with like-minded folk (skeptics were a rather rare species by then). It soon became clear that we needed to meet up IRL, and if IIRC, Girl6 played a major role in giving ideas and volunteering in that direction. TAM was born.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:09 PM   #255
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In case anyone is curious:

I have deleted every PM and every email I have ever received including those I have received over the years from people who have had to prove their identity. They are all gone.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:13 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
We've been handed lemons, so let's sell the lemons and buy some crack. Is that how that saying goes?
When life gives you lemons, donít make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I donít want your damn lemons, what the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see lifeís manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? Iím the man whoís gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! Iím gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:15 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Sure, if they take a short-sighted view and forget that the forum helped create TAM and transformed the organization into a community.
Maybe old age is playing havoc with my memory, but I rather clearly remember JREF - not sure who it was or under which circumstances - deny that the forum community had any meaningful part in making the TAMs happen or turning them (or JREF) into what they became.

Quote:
That might have something to do with the fact that this thread was the first inkling any of us had that this was going on.



My $.02 is that this is a slap in the face to all members, mods, and admins.
But is it really all that much of a surprise?

What interactions there were between JREF proper and the forum have for many years made it clear that the forum was something JREF allowed to continue to exist as long as the forum did nothing to displease JREF in any way (such as daring to suggest that the arbitrary rules Randi allegedly insisted on ought not be treated like they were handed down on clay tablets at Mt. Sinai), and definitely NOT in any way an asset to JREFīs mission. Maybe it was just Daratīs way to shut up any voice questioning his authority, but the message has always been clear: if the forum were ever to become more work to JREF than they thought it was worth (and he made it clear they considered it worth no work at all) then it would be closed down.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:21 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
... It sounds like they are trying to narrow the focus of JREF and in doing so, the forum will fall outside the new focus.
...
I think it is important for a Foundation like the Randi Educational Foundation, which claims to be "educational", to remain open, and to possibly expose itself to criticism and possible disagreements. This is important for its credibility, in my opinion. Otherwise, there is a risk of sliding into dogmatism, somewhat like religions, that skeptics sometimes criticize.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:22 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Rat View Post
When life gives you lemons, donít make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I donít want your damn lemons, what the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see lifeís manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? Iím the man whoís gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! Iím gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
Johnson. Memories of that salt mine in Utah... (I think)
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:29 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I think it is important for a Foundation like the Randi Educational Foundation, which claims to be "educational", to remain open, and to possibly expose itself to criticism and possible disagreements. This is important for its credibility, in my opinion. Otherwise, there is a risk of sliding into dogmatism, somewhat like religions, that skeptics sometimes criticize.
You do realize that people from JREF itself almost never participate in this forum? So whether or not it exists really has little bearing on the operation of JREF and whether or not it slides into dogmatism or anything else.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:45 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
There is no planned support for the Forum from the JREF. It will be detached from the org. I understand this may be confusing but the Forum is very much its own thing seperate from the org and currently does not fit into the narrowed mission.
That is a major, BIG mistake. Either the Powers That Be don't understand technology (since 1970, that is) or they are otherwise blind to the situation. This Forum should be a major focus of JREF, big time.

Are they ignoring the Internet, also? Going back to paper mailing, billboards, newspapers and magazines to get the word out? Is that how education works nowdays?

Anyone for a McGuffey Reader or a slate?

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Old 5th August 2014, 12:47 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
That is a major, BIG mistake. Either the Powers That Be don't understand technology (since 1970, that is) or they are otherwise blind to the situation. This Forum should be a major focus of JREF, big time.

Are they ignoring the Internet, also? Going back to paper mailing, billboards, newspapers and magazines to get the word out?
Randi has NEVER understood the value of the forum. I'd had hopes when Adam Savage was named to the board, that he'd be more understanding of it, but alas, no. I hope he didn't play any part in the decision to close us down. I'd hate to like him less.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:55 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
That is a major, BIG mistake. Either the Powers That Be don't understand technology (since 1970, that is) or they are otherwise blind to the situation. This Forum should be a major focus of JREF, big time.

Are they ignoring the Internet, also? Going back to paper mailing, billboards, newspapers and magazines to get the word out?
No, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, etc. should be their focus. Sites that can get the word out to millions inexpensively and very quickly. I don't know if that's their plan but that's what it should be.

Our forum has about 2000 active users. A D-list celebrity like Mickey Dolenz has 17,000+ followers. (Not picking on Mickey, just happened to see him on TV the other night.) A forum is not nearly as efficient as a lot of other methods.

Don't get me wrong, I like this forum. I've been here a long time and participate regularly, but let's not make this forum out to be something it's not.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:57 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
You do realize that people from JREF itself almost never participate in this forum? So whether or not it exists really has little bearing on the operation of JREF and whether or not it slides into dogmatism or anything else.
I think this is an error. Perhaps they want to give an impression that they are an "elite" of superior people, who wouldn't want to mix with the "ordinary people". If they are really so good, they should really prove it through the quality of their interaction with people.
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Old 5th August 2014, 12:59 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
I haven't been asked to become a member unless you count the little Donate button. Neither the welcome message I received here nor the e-mail verifications asked me to join. Those messages didn't even mention that there's a www.randi.org I could visit. Or TAM. Or JREF memberships.
You haven't been around long enough, they do send out donations/membership requests occasionally. Not that they could have done a much better job of it, but as others have pointed out the forum has always been at best an afterthought.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:08 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
Randi has NEVER understood the value of the forum. I'd had hopes when Adam Savage was named to the board, that he'd be more understanding of it, but alas, no. I hope he didn't play any part in the decision to close us down. I'd hate to like him less.

I heard things at TAM that hinted (well, more than hinted) a decision had been taken some time--not sure how long--before then. So unless he was involved in decision making a while before the official announcement of his joining the board, I don't think Savage played a part.

Last edited by AdMan; 5th August 2014 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:15 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
Randi has NEVER understood the value of the forum.
It pains me to say this, but the Olde Guard will pass soon. Perhaps the next generation will realize the value.

Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, etc. should be their focus. Sites that can get the word out to millions inexpensively and very quickly. I don't know if that's their plan but that's what it should be.
Let's nitpick, shall we? All of those, plus the Forum, should be in the mix. Each has their advantages. Want to get the word out quickly? Twitter. But try to put an essay or debate on Twitter sometime, or try to carry on a serious discussion, or find a relevant one.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:17 PM   #268
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Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:19 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
I heard things at TAM that hinted (well, more than hinted) a decision had been taken some time--not sure how long--before then. So unless he was involved in decision making a while before the official announcement of his joining the board, I don't think Savage played a part.
I'm glad of that, anyway.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:19 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
So why did you reply to my comment "Personally, I am flabbergasted that the JREF would give up an asset this valuable" saying that value is relative and ask me if I'm a member or not?

I went on to say, "The fact that they haven't figured out how to leverage it to further their goals reflects poorly on those in charge."

Seems you agree with that notion.
You've seen the Donate button, that brings you to a membership page where you can sign up. You haven't done so. You aren't unusual, the vast majority of people here are not members, myself included.

I agree they have never figured out how to leverage the forum fully, but then again JREF is a small organization. I think there's less than 10 employees, including Jame Randi. The main focus of JREF has been lectures, TAM and getting Randi an occasional media interview. From the JREF point of view, I can understand them thinking that they shouldn't have to preach to the choir (us). We should be the one's to step up without a lot of marketing, but that hasn't been the case.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:22 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.
It would be quite a draw if the 'name' board members participated in discussions here, even occassionally. It would certainly give the impression they were involved and approachable.

Then again, that may be the flaw.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:28 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.
http://talkfreethought.org/ is the other forum of this kind that I sometimes frequent, used to be free ratio and part of Internet Infidels before that if I recall correctly.

As someone already mentioned, no link at all to JREF would probably mean reduced visibility and less incoming users, and some people leaving, on the other hand it's starting with an existing user base is further ahead than the vast majority of forums.

I guess that's two other questions that maybe can be at least considered... is there an existing forum with similar enough goals that could be the new home for this forum's members? Does make the whole transition easier, though I expect that's not what most people who care would want.

A related question, is there maybe another skeptic type organization what could take on the forum? Would that even be desirable? Does the community have to exist in the context of and for the purpose of supporting/facilitating/whatever some other goal, or is the community existing on its own for the purpose of existing sufficient? Kind of relates to the questions about ownership and who sets policy politics etc etc.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:28 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Are there any other comparable forums (or whatever, discussion areas) where skeptical topics are tackled like they are here? I think this is the question; not are we as big as some pop star's fanclub.
Two that immediately come to mind are The Straight Dope and GiraffeBoards. Although many members here are also members there, each board has its distinctive ambiance.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:29 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
It pains me to say this, but the Olde Guard will pass soon. Perhaps the next generation will realize the value.

Let's nitpick, shall we? All of those, plus the Forum, should be in the mix. Each has their advantages. Want to get the word out quickly? Twitter. But try to put an essay or debate on Twitter sometime, or try to carry on a serious discussion, or find a relevant one.
It's not nitpicking. A forum is an inefficient means of communication and fraught with problems that most organizations don't want to deal with. How many advocacy organizations run their own forum like this one?

They have randi.org for essays and articles.

The forum is very valuable to me, you and most of the people on it. It's not that valuable to JREF itself.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:30 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
It's a common problem. People have learned to put in fine print to cover ownership changes.

A simple way is just to purge all identifiable info for the migration, leaving username and (encrypted) password, and when the transfer happens people have to agree to new terms to login.
People may have learned that, and it may be that fine print you mention does appear in many places, but not the Membership Agreement for this forum.

As for a general PII purge, don't forget private messages. All PMs would need to be deleted.

Actually, a case could be made for any post made in a non-public forum would need to be purged, too.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:35 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by temporalillusion View Post
http://talkfreethought.org/ is the other forum of this kind that I sometimes frequent, used to be free ratio and part of Internet Infidels before that if I recall correctly.

As someone already mentioned, no link at all to JREF would probably mean reduced visibility and less incoming users, and some people leaving, on the other hand it's starting with an existing user base is further ahead than the vast majority of forums.
Sharon has said the JREF website will continue to promote the forum where appropriate, including posting. Just no resources (or liability)

Quote:
I guess that's two other questions that maybe can be at least considered... is there an existing forum with similar enough goals that could be the new home for this forum's members? Does make the whole transition easier, though I expect that's not what most people who care would want.
If we do this right, not much should change but the name. Same members, same content.

Quote:
A related question, is there maybe another skeptic type organization what could take on the forum? Would that even be desirable? Does the community have to exist in the context of and for the purpose of supporting/facilitating/whatever some other goal, or is the community existing on its own for the purpose of existing sufficient? Kind of relates to the questions about ownership and who sets policy politics etc etc.
I've suggested privately the idea of perhaps merging with one of the other forums/sites that have (in effect) broken away in the past, nobody has yet been supportive of the idea.

There is zero reason this community cannot continue much the same way as it has to date.

But it's up to the community to make it happen.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:36 PM   #277
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I has a sad, and a question:

When?

When will this happen?

This forum is dear to me, and I will hate to lose it. Any move is going to involve some inevitable losses. If JREF really is letting go, when will whatever happens, happen?
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:39 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
Sharon has said the JREF website will continue to promote the forum where appropriate, including posting. Just no resources (or liability)

If we do this right, not much should change but the name. Same members, same content.

I've suggested privately the idea of perhaps merging with one of the other forums/sites that have (in effect) broken away in the past, nobody has yet been supportive of the idea.

There is zero reason this community cannot continue much the same way as it has to date.

But it's up to the community to make it happen.
For the first time since December, I will be able to pay a (modest) subscription starting in September.

And, if it is considered worth continuing, I will go on with the TLAFP.

Is there anything else I can do to help?
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:41 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson View Post
In case anyone is curious:

I have deleted every PM and every email I have ever received including those I have received over the years from people who have had to prove their identity. They are all gone.
Thank you.
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:41 PM   #280
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Not really going to comment on the forums issue, just with a fix for the login issues that people are having:

If you add this line to your hosts file (in OS X it's under /etc/hosts, don't know about other OSes), flush your Safari cache and/or DNS cache, you should be able to log in:

67.228.115.45 forums.randi.org
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