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Old 5th August 2014, 01:50 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Whyatica View Post
Not really going to comment on the forums issue, just with a fix for the login issues that people are having:

If you add this line to your hosts file (in OS X it's under /etc/hosts, don't know about other OSes), flush your Safari cache and/or DNS cache, you should be able to log in:

67.228.115.45 forums.randi.org
Rick has turned off the caching, should fix the problem when cached records expire
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:51 PM   #282
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With all due appreciation to icerat, were there any other offers to run the forum, and is it now too late to consider alternatives ?
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:52 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
But it's up to the community to make it happen.
Okay, what exactly does the community have to do to make it happen?
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:58 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Okay, what exactly does the community have to do to make it happen?
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Old 5th August 2014, 01:59 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
...
This forum is dear to me, and I will hate to lose it. Any move is going to involve some inevitable losses. If JREF really is letting go, when will whatever happens ... ?
Randi's phone number seems to be publically available:
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/staff.html, he seems to be still very active.
If you like this forum the way it is right now (except of course for the technical problems), you could perhaps try to call him (same for many of you here), say that you appreciate the forum, that because of him, it may have some "prestige", and ask the JREF continues to fund it, the budget required for that is not that big compared to the JREF's overall budget.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:01 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
With all due appreciation to icerat, were there any other offers to run the forum, and is it now too late to consider alternatives ?
Again with all due appreciation to icerat, it sounds like JREF wanted a way out and jumped on the first bus that happened by.

This brings up the awkward part and since no one else will ask, I will.

icerat: How do we know you're not just yanking our chain? Or worse, are well-intentioned but not up to the task? Nothing's worse than an eager, incompetent volunteer. You do sound like you know what you're doing and have apparently convinced JREF of that. However, JREF is looking to dump the forum, so I'm not sure their due diligence would be that reassuring. Please do not take offense, this is a skeptics forum, taking things on faith doesn't cut it.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:03 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
Ain't gonna happen. People are scared.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:04 PM   #288
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Also please tell us your real name. We want to know who we are dealing with. Thanks.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:04 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
With all due appreciation to icerat, were there any other offers to run the forum, and is it now too late to consider alternatives ?
Nobody is more surprised than me the way this has panned out, and how quickly. I just volunteered our resources to help maintain the server.

That's pretty much where it still stands except now I'll ultimately be responsible for the bills too.

My preference is (was) that the forum just keeps getting run by the team already running it. A few have decided to take the opportunity to retire their roles, which is understandable (it's way more work than most people are aware of) but others have also volunteered.

A community is all the people who contribute to it. Just because the name changes doesn't mean it's heart has to.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:13 PM   #290
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:19 PM   #291
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Well, another win for the homeopaths and such. I don't mean icerat, that's not the problem, it's the attitude of the JREF here that seems very poor. It means that they disappear from a variety of places on the net.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:21 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Again with all due appreciation to icerat, it sounds like JREF wanted a way out and jumped on the first bus that happened by.
Yeah, I suspect say,

This brings up the awkward part and since no one else will ask, I will.

icerat: How do we know you're not just yanking our chain? Or worse, are well-intentioned but not up to the task?

Nothing's worse than an eager, incompetent volunteer. You do sound like you know what you're doing and have apparently convinced JREF of that. However, JREF is looking to dump the forum, so I'm not sure their due diligence would be that reassuring. Please do not take offense, this is a skeptics forum, taking things on faith doesn't cut it.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
Also please tell us your real name. We want to know who we are dealing with. Thanks.
How many of you know Darat's name?

Anyway, have at it.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:23 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by ctamblyn View Post
sounds like quite a good idea if you ask me
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:24 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Again with all due appreciation to icerat, it sounds like JREF wanted a way out and jumped on the first bus that happened by.
True, but the first bus is not necessarily a bad bus simply by dint of being the first bus. Nor do you know how many buses arrived. I am at least a second bus, there may be more for all I know, but icerat was there ahead of me.

Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
This brings up the awkward part and since no one else will ask, I will.

icerat: How do we know you're not just yanking our chain? Or worse, are well-intentioned but not up to the task? Nothing's worse than an eager, incompetent volunteer. You do sound like you know what you're doing and have apparently convinced JREF of that. However, JREF is looking to dump the forum, so I'm not sure their due diligence would be that reassuring. Please do not take offense, this is a skeptics forum, taking things on faith doesn't cut it.
I can't be specific about private communications, but nothing icerat has said or done gives me a moments pause in that regard.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:27 PM   #295
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These news... unsettle me. This forum means a terrible lot to me. I was barely 18, a broken and lonesome man when I found it. Suddenly I had a place with so many thoughtful and intelligent people, so much to learn, and a purpose of sorts. I found new friends, new communities, a new culture, a new language, new ways of thinking, new perspective. I shudder to think what might have become of me without this to hang on to, refer to, fall back on.

I have grown enough to more than stand on my own whatever I face, but this forum made me and I will not see it undone. Not without exhausting all the options.

We're at a crossroads now, and if we want to preserve this community, we must display great prudence. Who decides what, how disputes are settled, funding, direction... all of these things will mighty ripple in the fate of this place.

I wish there were more I could do for now. I suppose little more than melodramatic musings escapes me. But to all of those with the technical skills to keep it going, thank you. To all who ask the difficult questions, thank you. To everyone who puts in work to salvage this home... Thank you so much.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:32 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
Anyway, have at it.
Thank you.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:34 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
Also please tell us your real name. We want to know who we are dealing with. Thanks.
And what would that avail you?

It so happens that I have posted my actual identity on this site. But that was my choice.

There is no requirement for anyone else to do so. Nor should they be forced to do so.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:40 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
These news... unsettle me. This forum means a terrible lot to me. I was barely 18, a broken and lonesome man when I found it. Suddenly I had a place with so many thoughtful and intelligent people, so much to learn, and a purpose of sorts. I found new friends, new communities, a new culture, a new language, new ways of thinking, new perspective. I shudder to think what might have become of me without this to hang on to, refer to, fall back on.

I have grown enough to more than stand on my own whatever I face, but this forum made me and I will not see it undone. Not without exhausting all the options.

We're at a crossroads now, and if we want to preserve this community, we must display great prudence. Who decides what, how disputes are settled, funding, direction... all of these things will mighty ripple in the fate of this place.

I wish there were more I could do for now. I suppose little more than melodramatic musings escapes me. But to all of those with the technical skills to keep it going, thank you. To all who ask the difficult questions, thank you. To everyone who puts in work to salvage this home... Thank you so much.
That is a feeling of rejection. And, to be fair, I feel that sense too.

But take a moment to consider who is rejecting, and who is being rejected.

It is JREF rejecting the forum community, not the Forum rejecting you.

And at base, JREF does not participate in this community in any meaningful way.

So what is important? The preservation of a pointless link to a neglectful JREF? Or the preservation of your link to a community?
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:41 PM   #299
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This news is really disheartening to me. While it does appear that the forum will continue in some guise, it certainly will not attract and maintain the caliber of poster it now has without the gravitas of Randi's name. I understand the stated desire to narrow JREF's focus, but I'm not aware of another place on the Net that has the expertise assembled at JREF in such a wide array of disciplines. Have a question about Etruscan architecture? Quantum chromodynamics? Assyrian religious observances? Start a thread, and you'll get not just an answer, but an authoritative answer. You won't get that at many, if any, other forums.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:43 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
This news is really disheartening to me. While it does appear that the forum will continue in some guise, it certainly will not attract and maintain the caliber of poster it now has without the gravitas of Randi's name. I understand the stated desire to narrow JREF's focus, but I'm not aware of another place on the Net that has the expertise assembled at JREF in such a wide array of disciplines. Have a question about Etruscan architecture? Quantum chromodynamics? Assyrian religious observances? Start a thread, and you'll get not just an answer, but an authoritative answer. You won't get that at many, if any, other forums.
You are making the assumption that incumbent members will abandon ship in droves. Why do you think that?
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:55 PM   #301
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:58 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That is a feeling of rejection. And, to be fair, I feel that sense too.

But take a moment to consider who is rejecting, and who is being rejected.

It is JREF rejecting the forum community, not the Forum rejecting you.

And at base, JREF does not participate in this community in any meaningful way.

So what is important? The preservation of a pointless link to a neglectful JREF? Or the preservation of your link to a community?

Well put.
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Old 5th August 2014, 02:59 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
This news is really disheartening to me. While it does appear that the forum will continue in some guise, it certainly will not attract and maintain the caliber of poster it now has without the gravitas of Randi's name. I understand the stated desire to narrow JREF's focus, but I'm not aware of another place on the Net that has the expertise assembled at JREF in such a wide array of disciplines. Have a question about Etruscan architecture? Quantum chromodynamics? Assyrian religious observances? Start a thread, and you'll get not just an answer, but an authoritative answer. You won't get that at many, if any, other forums.
"The gravitas of Randi's name"? Really? Maybe I'm unusual but James Randi had nothing to do with me finding this site. I'm pretty sure I was looking for info on colloidal silver and I ended up here.

And the expertise isn't assembled at JREF, it's assembled in this forum, the bastard child of JREF (apparently). If the transition leaves the forum pretty much the way it is you can still ask about Etruscan architecture, Quantum chromodynamics, Assyrian religious observances and cake.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:01 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Have a question about Etruscan architecture? Quantum chromodynamics? Assyrian religious observances? Start a thread, and you'll get not just an answer, but an authoritative answer. You won't get that at many, if any, other forums.

All is not lost, though. I will do my best to take up the slack by making up convincing-sounding nonsense about all those topics and any others that come up.

If others pitch in, we can maintain a pretty high standard of at least seeming authoritative if you don't look too close. Which would still be better than 99.7% of the Web sites out there.

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Old 5th August 2014, 03:01 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
Actually I'm Australian, but one of these days I'll get around to dual citizenship
Cold Foster's for everyone!!!!
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:04 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by RemieV View Post
The other is that it violates the JREF's own privacy policy, an enforceable contract.
Good luck enforcing it.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:07 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
Rick has turned off the caching, should fix the problem when cached records expire
Finally able to log in after 3 days.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:10 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You are making the assumption that incumbent members will abandon ship in droves. Why do you think that?
Because I've seen similar situations before. Where are all the members of the Dawkins forum now? I think a few ended up here, some went here, some went there, but the community pretty much disappeared.
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
"The gravitas of Randi's name"? Really? Maybe I'm unusual but James Randi had nothing to do with me finding this site. I'm pretty sure I was looking for info on colloidal silver and I ended up here.
Not me. I was reading, as I recall, a Dawkins book that mentioned Randi, and it was the first I'd heard of him. I googled him, and I ended up here.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:15 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Rat View Post
Because I've seen similar situations before. Where are all the members of the Dawkins forum now? I think a few ended up here, some went here, some went there, but the community pretty much disappeared
The Dawkin's forum actually got shut down though didn't it? Here all we're really dealing with is a name change and removal of some of the less traveled sections.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:22 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
The Dawkin's forum actually got shut down though didn't it? Here all we're really dealing with is a name change and removal of some of the less traveled sections.
And what would be the new name? And which sections would disappear?
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:23 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
Personally, I am flabbergasted that the JREF would give up an asset this valuable.
I'm not. It has been apparent for quite some time that the foundation didn't give much of a toss about the forum.

And things are not looking up.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:26 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Again with all due appreciation to icerat, it sounds like JREF wanted a way out and jumped on the first bus that happened by.

This brings up the awkward part and since no one else will ask, I will.

icerat: How do we know you're not just yanking our chain? Or worse, are well-intentioned but not up to the task? Nothing's worse than an eager, incompetent volunteer. You do sound like you know what you're doing and have apparently convinced JREF of that. However, JREF is looking to dump the forum, so I'm not sure their due diligence would be that reassuring. Please do not take offense, this is a skeptics forum, taking things on faith doesn't cut it.
You'll be the first one banned.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:26 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
The Dawkin's forum actually got shut down though didn't it? Here all we're really dealing with is a name change and removal of some of the less traveled sections.

What happened to the Dawkins forum I think is instructive.

Maybe a clean break from the JREF, now that the decision has been announced, is a good idea.

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Old 5th August 2014, 03:27 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
Also please tell us your real name. We want to know who we are dealing with. Thanks.
His real name is I. C. Erat.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:29 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, etc. should be their focus.
Yeah but you can't carry much of a debate there.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:30 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You are making the assumption that incumbent members will abandon ship in droves. Why do you think that?
I hope they won't, but I fear that the way this has been handled will be severely off-putting to many of us. I will, though, here and now state my own intention to remain, and also to continue as a moderator until I get devolunteered.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:31 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
You haven't been around long enough, they do send out donations/membership requests occasionally.
I never got one, to my memory, and certainly not in the last 4-5 years.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:34 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I, for one, welcome our new Swedish overlord...
I always considered Icerat to be our most valuable member.
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:35 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by icerat View Post
The Dawkin's forum actually got shut down though didn't it? Here all we're really dealing with is a name change and removal of some of the less traveled sections.
I dont wish to piss off our new overlord(s) but ...
Really ?

If the current admin/mod* team aren't on board many of the members may not see it that way.
[If I may state the bleedin' obvious].
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Old 5th August 2014, 03:37 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I hope they won't, but I fear that the way this has been handled will be severely off-putting to many of us. I will, though, here and now state my own intention to remain, and also to continue as a moderator until I get devolunteered.
And fair play to you for that. I find encouragement in the fact that so many are motivated to step up and volunteer. I have seen plenty of fora go quietly into the night with nothing but a whisper. The willingness to actually do something gives me hope.
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