LA JREF office closes, D.J. Grothe no longer with the JREF - Page 2

malicus · 2nd September 2014, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get?

I was mildly shocked when I read that terse one liner regarding DJ. Then I mildly wasn't.

This whole month smacks of estate planning. Sensible, but kinda sad.

Ah well, on to bigger and better things for all one hopes.

Orphia Nay · 2nd September 2014, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by malicus

This whole month smacks of estate planning.

Indeed. Of not going quietly into the night.

Brive1987 · 2nd September 2014, 01:35 AM

DJ's necking was inevitable once Phil's TV career tanked. The sooner DJ is back at POI where he was brilliant and the plaitster is back in his seat the sooner the world ceases to be upside down.

AdMan · 2nd September 2014, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get?

I agree. Not a word of thanks to DJ's efforts over the past few years seems surprising and not well thought out.

The JREF seems to be falling apart. How sad. Who's in charge now, if anyone is? James Randi is president, but I doubt he can manage day-to-day operations.

Seems to me now that the forum is probably best on its own, as it is going to be.

Orphia Nay · 2nd September 2014, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

I agree. Not a word of thanks to DJ's efforts over the past few years seems surprising and not well thought out.

The JREF seems to be falling apart. How sad. Who's in charge now, if anyone is?

Seems to me now that the forum is probably best on its own, as it is going to be.

+1

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get?

It amuses me that the biggest outrage from all this is the brusque wording in the press release. "My god, couldn't they have added some extra meaningless traditional verbiage?" Says a lot about the previous regime.

I think the JREF has little chance of outliving Randi. This might be as good a time as any to let it go. (Not that I think they will.)

lionking · 2nd September 2014, 04:28 AM

Here's the thing. This should be the age of skepticism extant. Young people, at least in Western societies are far more questioning. Atheism is increasing.

Yet the JREF, which has been and should continue to be, a uniting voice of skepticism, is floundering. The enemies of skepticism will soon be dancing on Randi's grave. What happened? What will happen next?

This forum could have been part of the JREF resurgence. It's been tossed into the trash can. Very sad.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

Yet the JREF, which has been and should continue to be, a uniting voice of skepticism, is floundering. The enemies of skepticism will soon be dancing on Randi's grave. What happened? What will happen next?

Maybe the time for large national or international skeptic organizations is over? At least in the sense that we've come to know them. It is so easy now to make groups online or find local groups to focus on things meaningful to a specific community. Maybe the only role left for the big groups is to facilitate information sharing among small groups.

lionking · 2nd September 2014, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

Maybe the time for large national or international skeptic organizations is over? At least in the sense that we've come to know them. It is so easy now to make groups online or find local groups to focus on things meaningful to a specific community. Maybe the only role left for the big groups is to facilitate information sharing among small groups.

You may be right, but I have learnt so much from this forum. I think I'm a better person because of it. Despite the gallant efforts to keep it alive, cutting the forum loose from what was a skepticism powerhouse is sad.

And more on topic, that the JREF looks like not being a powerhouse is tragic.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

Maybe the time for large national or international skeptic organizations is over? At least in the sense that we've come to know them. It is so easy now to make groups online or find local groups to focus on things meaningful to a specific community. Maybe the only role left for the big groups is to facilitate information sharing among small groups.

While the large national organizations may go away, an opportunity still exists for a TAM-like conference. All industries have at least one big conference.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

While the large national organizations may go away, an opportunity still exists for a TAM-like conference. All industries have at least one big conference.

So the goal of the JREF would be to put on TAM to raise money so the JREF can afford to plan the next TAM? That seems to have been the model for the past couple of years.

But I'm talking about the day-to-day work of skeptical organizations. I suspect we may be at a point where the work is done more effectively at a local level. If so, is there a better role for the JREF than networking and supporting those local groups? (Two months ago I would have said "common information repository" as well, but since they seem disinterested in maintaining this forum, we need to find another place for the JREF to fit.)

I think that would be more important than TAM, as fun as previous TAMs have been.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

So the goal of the JREF would be to put on TAM to raise money so the JREF can afford to plan the next TAM? That seems to have been the model for the past couple of years.

I'd be fine with that. Seems to work well for DragonCon, etc.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I'd be fine with that. Seems to work well for DragonCon, etc.

I never equated the goals of sci-fi conventions and TAM. But if that's what the JREF wants to do, it's their call. I didn't get into skepticism so I had an excuse to go to Vegas, but that's just me.

If the big concern about the JREF is what will happen to TAM, then I suspect the JREF's time is already over.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

I never equated the goals of sci-fi conventions and TAM. But if that's what the JREF wants to do, it's their call. I didn't get into skepticism so I had an excuse to go to Vegas, but that's just me.

If the big concern about the JREF is what will happen to TAM, then I suspect the JREF's time is already over.

Maybe.

If JREF doesn't keep TAM going, I think there is a business opportunity for someone. Skeptic Society has some experience running conferences, as does NECSS. Or maybe a private individual will pick it up as a money making business.

Horatius · 2nd September 2014, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

I never equated the goals of sci-fi conventions and TAM. But if that's what the JREF wants to do, it's their call. I didn't get into skepticism so I had an excuse to go to Vegas, but that's just me.

If the big concern about the JREF is what will happen to TAM, then I suspect the JREF's time is already over.

I think Scrut's point is, there are already lots of organizations who exist solely to co-ordinate large conferences that lots of members of various communities all attend. The point is not to attend a conference put on by JREF, the point is to attend a conference where all members of CFI, Skeptics Society, Skepticamp, and X Skeptics of Location Y attend.

Brive1987 · 2nd September 2014, 05:30 AM

So apparently the narrative has been set in place by the SJ wing:

Shermer is a rapist
Radford is a harasser and abuser
Krauss is just weird
DJ is a misogenistic cad
Dawkins is a privilaged fool
TAM is a refuge for MRAs and chill girls
PZ and Watson are the voice of reason

What's clearly fact is that:

Hitch is dead
Stenger is dead
Hrab has mostly withdrawn into music because of the drama
Swoopy has simply given up

Oh the madness.

Meanwhile the JREF forums are to be cut loose as surplus to needs.

Quote:

“Don't let it be forgot, that once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment, that was known as Camelot.”

Foolmewunz · 2nd September 2014, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Maybe.

If JREF doesn't keep TAM going, I think there is a business opportunity for someone. Skeptic Society has some experience running conferences, as does NECSS. Or maybe a private individual will pick it up as a money making business.

Or maybe the International Skeptics Forum will organize one.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 05:32 AM

We'll see soon enough. I don't really care much, personally. If the actual work of promoting critical thinking in some useful ways isn't behind it, then it'll seem hollow. We don't need JREF to be party planners -- there are plenty out there already.

But to all of you for whom TAM is the #1 concern -- good luck in this trying time.

Cleon · 2nd September 2014, 05:34 AM

It's not like there's a lack of skeptic/atheist conferences these days.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

I think Scrut's point is, there are already lots of organizations who exist solely to co-ordinate large conferences that lots of members of various communities all attend. The point is not to attend a conference put on by JREF, the point is to attend a conference where all members of CFI, Skeptics Society, Skepticamp, and X Skeptics of Location Y attend.

Sure, but if the JREF's only mission becomes organizing a conference for everyone else, then I don't see much of a point in the JREF continuing. CFI and whomever else can contact one of the existing event-planning organizations themselves to set it up.

Cleon · 2nd September 2014, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

Sure, but if the JREF's only mission becomes organizing a conference for everyone else, then I don't see much of a point in the JREF continuing. CFI and whomever else can contact one of the existing event-planning organizations themselves to set it up.

Perhaps they could call it "CSICon" or some such.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Brive1987

TAM is a refuge for MRAs and chill girls

I'm not a chill girl (at least I don't think I am) so I must be an MRA. Whatever that is. Do I get a membership card?

Originally Posted by Brive1987

Swoopy has simply given up

Who (or what) is "Swoopy"?

Captain_Swoop · 2nd September 2014, 05:42 AM

Isn't it a bit soon to be picking over the bones when the body is still alive?

Reno · 2nd September 2014, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Who (or what) is "Swoopy"?

Skepticality

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Reno

Skepticality

I had to google that. I don't subscribe to Skeptic, which is why I never heard of it.

Brive1987 · 2nd September 2014, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I had to google that. I don't subscribe to Skeptic, which is why I never heard of it.

One of the first podcasts lauded by Jobs. Now pretty much flotsam.

Aepervius · 2nd September 2014, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by malicus

This whole month smacks of estate planning. Sensible, but kinda sad.

I thought so too...

Aepervius · 2nd September 2014, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

It's not like there's a lack of skeptic/atheist conferences these days.

Maybe that's because I do not know many young atheist (practically beside a few youtuber like AaronRa and thinkingAtheist) but it feels as the old guard is passing away, and whereas there seems to be more young atheist (as watching the conference keynote), they are as a whole less known.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Isn't it a bit soon to be picking over the bones when the body is still alive?

Whether the body is still alive (or should be put out of its misery) is really what we're talking about.

Phlebas · 2nd September 2014, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Perhaps they could call it "CSICon" or some such.

Apparently the existing CSICon doesn't qualify as a national skeptics conference, for reasons I expect to remain unclear.

d4m10n · 2nd September 2014, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I should clarify that TAM was great before DJ and continued to be while he was there. In fact, TAM XII (2014) was among the best.

What makes you confident there will be a TAM XIII?

jhunter1163 · 2nd September 2014, 06:17 AM

Looking at the 990 for 2013, revenue dropped from around $1.25 million in 2012 to just under $900,000, and they ran a $150,000 loss for the year. That's not sustainable for any length of time when you're a small nonprofit and your major asset (the million dollars) is locked up.

Blue Mountain · 2nd September 2014, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Brive1987

So apparently the narrative has been set in place by the SJ wing:

Shermer is a rapist
Radford is a harasser and abuser
Krauss is just weird
DJ is a misogenistic cad
Dawkins is a privilaged fool
TAM is a refuge for MRAs and chill girls
PZ and Watson are the voice of reason

What's clearly fact is that:

Hitch is dead
Stenger is dead
Hrab has mostly withdrawn into music because of the drama
Swoopy has simply given up

Oh the madness.

Meanwhile the JREF forums are to be cut loose as surplus to needs.

From what I can see George Hrab is still active in the skeptical community. He's been on SGU podcast and has been an MC at (I think) TAM in the past year.

My understanding from listening to Skepticality (co-hosted by Derek and Swoopy) is that Swoopy is studying full-time at university and simply does not have the time assist in the production of the podcast.

If you have different information, you're welcome to present it.

Cleon · 2nd September 2014, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

From what I can see George Hrab is still active in the skeptical community. He's been on SGU podcast and has been an MC at (I think) TAM in the past year.

He was MC this year. Two months ago.

Quote:

My understanding from listening to Skepticality (co-hosted by Derek and Swoopy) is that Swoopy is studying full-time at university and simply does not have the time assist in the production of the podcast.

If you have different information, you're welcome to present it.

Swoopy is very involved in the Skeptrack at DragonCon, even if she's scaled back the podcasting.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Phlebas

Apparently the existing CSICon doesn't qualify as a national skeptics conference, for reasons I expect to remain unclear.

It's hard to qualify as a national skeptics conference when you don't exist.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

What makes you confident there will be a TAM XIII?

The JREF has switched presidents before, and TAM has continued.

zooterkin · 2nd September 2014, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

Looking at the 990 for 2013, revenue dropped from around $1.25 million in 2012 to just under $900,000, and they ran a $150,000 loss for the year. That's not sustainable for any length of time when you're a small nonprofit and your major asset (the million dollars) is locked up.

I'm not sure that the million is technically an asset of the JREF. Doesn't it belong to Rick Adams, but it's under a bond or some such instrument that says it will be paid if someone passed the MDC?

d4m10n · 2nd September 2014, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

The JREF has switched presidents before, and TAM has continued.

Back when they had a staff, sure. Who is left to make TAM happen now?

Originally Posted by Cleon

It's not like there's a lack of skeptic/atheist conferences these days.

State and regional cons abound. Possibly, this cuts into the ability of national groups with big name speakers to attract sustainable numbers.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2014, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Back when they had a staff, sure. Who is left to make TAM happen now?

They haven't had "staff" for years now.

d4m10n · 2nd September 2014, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

They haven't had "staff" for years now.

That doesn't answer my question. Without the expertise of DJ and Thomas, who is left that knows how to line everything up to make a major conference happen?

For that matter, why believe that the board still wants TAM to happen? It's difficult to see how it supports training young students.

2nd September 2014, 12:59 AM	#41
malicus Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,766	Originally Posted by zooterkin While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get? I was mildly shocked when I read that terse one liner regarding DJ. Then I mildly wasn't. This whole month smacks of estate planning. Sensible, but kinda sad. Ah well, on to bigger and better things for all one hopes.
malicus Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,766

2nd September 2014, 01:34 AM	#42
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,800	Originally Posted by malicus This whole month smacks of estate planning. Indeed. Of not going quietly into the night.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

2nd September 2014, 01:35 AM	#43
Brive1987 Muse Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 556	DJ's necking was inevitable once Phil's TV career tanked. The sooner DJ is back at POI where he was brilliant and the plaitster is back in his seat the sooner the world ceases to be upside down.
Brive1987 Muse Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 556

2nd September 2014, 02:05 AM	#44
AdMan Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 10,293	Originally Posted by zooterkin While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get? I agree. Not a word of thanks to DJ's efforts over the past few years seems surprising and not well thought out. The JREF seems to be falling apart. How sad. Who's in charge now, if anyone is? James Randi is president, but I doubt he can manage day-to-day operations. Seems to me now that the forum is probably best on its own, as it is going to be.
	__________________ As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. - Voltaire. Last edited by AdMan; 2nd September 2014 at 02:18 AM.

2nd September 2014, 02:18 AM	#45
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,800	Originally Posted by AdMan I agree. Not a word of thanks to DJ's efforts over the past few years seems surprising and not well thought out. The JREF seems to be falling apart. How sad. Who's in charge now, if anyone is? Seems to me now that the forum is probably best on its own, as it is going to be. +1
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

2nd September 2014, 04:16 AM	#46
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by zooterkin While not privy to any inside information, there's been enough rumblings for it not to be a complete surprise that DJ and the JREF have parted company. What is surprising is the wording of the announcement. Not a word of thanks for the years of service from the outgoing President? How classless can you get? It amuses me that the biggest outrage from all this is the brusque wording in the press release. "My god, couldn't they have added some extra meaningless traditional verbiage?" Says a lot about the previous regime. I think the JREF has little chance of outliving Randi. This might be as good a time as any to let it go. (Not that I think they will.)
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 04:28 AM	#47
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 47,162	Here's the thing. This should be the age of skepticism extant. Young people, at least in Western societies are far more questioning. Atheism is increasing. Yet the JREF, which has been and should continue to be, a uniting voice of skepticism, is floundering. The enemies of skepticism will soon be dancing on Randi's grave. What happened? What will happen next? This forum could have been part of the JREF resurgence. It's been tossed into the trash can. Very sad.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

2nd September 2014, 04:42 AM	#48
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by lionking Yet the JREF, which has been and should continue to be, a uniting voice of skepticism, is floundering. The enemies of skepticism will soon be dancing on Randi's grave. What happened? What will happen next? Maybe the time for large national or international skeptic organizations is over? At least in the sense that we've come to know them. It is so easy now to make groups online or find local groups to focus on things meaningful to a specific community. Maybe the only role left for the big groups is to facilitate information sharing among small groups.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 04:49 AM	#49
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 47,162	Originally Posted by Phlebas Maybe the time for large national or international skeptic organizations is over? At least in the sense that we've come to know them. It is so easy now to make groups online or find local groups to focus on things meaningful to a specific community. Maybe the only role left for the big groups is to facilitate information sharing among small groups. You may be right, but I have learnt so much from this forum. I think I'm a better person because of it. Despite the gallant efforts to keep it alive, cutting the forum loose from what was a skepticism powerhouse is sad. And more on topic, that the JREF looks like not being a powerhouse is tragic.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

2nd September 2014, 04:54 AM	#50
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 53,052	Originally Posted by Phlebas Maybe the time for large national or international skeptic organizations is over? At least in the sense that we've come to know them. It is so easy now to make groups online or find local groups to focus on things meaningful to a specific community. Maybe the only role left for the big groups is to facilitate information sharing among small groups. While the large national organizations may go away, an opportunity still exists for a TAM-like conference. All industries have at least one big conference.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

2nd September 2014, 05:03 AM	#51
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer While the large national organizations may go away, an opportunity still exists for a TAM-like conference. All industries have at least one big conference. So the goal of the JREF would be to put on TAM to raise money so the JREF can afford to plan the next TAM? That seems to have been the model for the past couple of years. But I'm talking about the day-to-day work of skeptical organizations. I suspect we may be at a point where the work is done more effectively at a local level. If so, is there a better role for the JREF than networking and supporting those local groups? (Two months ago I would have said "common information repository" as well, but since they seem disinterested in maintaining this forum, we need to find another place for the JREF to fit.) I think that would be more important than TAM, as fun as previous TAMs have been.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 05:05 AM	#52
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 53,052	Originally Posted by Phlebas So the goal of the JREF would be to put on TAM to raise money so the JREF can afford to plan the next TAM? That seems to have been the model for the past couple of years. I'd be fine with that. Seems to work well for DragonCon, etc.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

2nd September 2014, 05:15 AM	#53
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I'd be fine with that. Seems to work well for DragonCon, etc. I never equated the goals of sci-fi conventions and TAM. But if that's what the JREF wants to do, it's their call. I didn't get into skepticism so I had an excuse to go to Vegas, but that's just me. If the big concern about the JREF is what will happen to TAM, then I suspect the JREF's time is already over.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 05:25 AM	#54
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 53,052	Originally Posted by Phlebas I never equated the goals of sci-fi conventions and TAM. But if that's what the JREF wants to do, it's their call. I didn't get into skepticism so I had an excuse to go to Vegas, but that's just me. If the big concern about the JREF is what will happen to TAM, then I suspect the JREF's time is already over. Maybe. If JREF doesn't keep TAM going, I think there is a business opportunity for someone. Skeptic Society has some experience running conferences, as does NECSS. Or maybe a private individual will pick it up as a money making business.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

2nd September 2014, 05:28 AM	#55
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,136	Originally Posted by Phlebas I never equated the goals of sci-fi conventions and TAM. But if that's what the JREF wants to do, it's their call. I didn't get into skepticism so I had an excuse to go to Vegas, but that's just me. If the big concern about the JREF is what will happen to TAM, then I suspect the JREF's time is already over. I think Scrut's point is, there are already lots of organizations who exist solely to co-ordinate large conferences that lots of members of various communities all attend. The point is not to attend a conference put on by JREF, the point is to attend a conference where all members of CFI, Skeptics Society, Skepticamp, and X Skeptics of Location Y attend.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

2nd September 2014, 05:30 AM	#56
Brive1987 Muse Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 556	So apparently the narrative has been set in place by the SJ wing: Shermer is a rapist Radford is a harasser and abuser Krauss is just weird DJ is a misogenistic cad Dawkins is a privilaged fool TAM is a refuge for MRAs and chill girls PZ and Watson are the voice of reason What's clearly fact is that: Hitch is dead Stenger is dead Hrab has mostly withdrawn into music because of the drama Swoopy has simply given up Oh the madness. Meanwhile the JREF forums are to be cut loose as surplus to needs. Quote: “Don't let it be forgot, that once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment, that was known as Camelot.”
Brive1987 Muse Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 556

2nd September 2014, 05:30 AM	#57
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 41,468	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Maybe. If JREF doesn't keep TAM going, I think there is a business opportunity for someone. Skeptic Society has some experience running conferences, as does NECSS. Or maybe a private individual will pick it up as a money making business. Or maybe the International Skeptics Forum will organize one.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

2nd September 2014, 05:32 AM	#58
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	We'll see soon enough. I don't really care much, personally. If the actual work of promoting critical thinking in some useful ways isn't behind it, then it'll seem hollow. We don't need JREF to be party planners -- there are plenty out there already. But to all of you for whom TAM is the #1 concern -- good luck in this trying time.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 05:34 AM	#59
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,682	It's not like there's a lack of skeptic/atheist conferences these days.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

2nd September 2014, 05:34 AM	#60
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by Horatius I think Scrut's point is, there are already lots of organizations who exist solely to co-ordinate large conferences that lots of members of various communities all attend. The point is not to attend a conference put on by JREF, the point is to attend a conference where all members of CFI, Skeptics Society, Skepticamp, and X Skeptics of Location Y attend. Sure, but if the JREF's only mission becomes organizing a conference for everyone else, then I don't see much of a point in the JREF continuing. CFI and whomever else can contact one of the existing event-planning organizations themselves to set it up.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 05:36 AM	#61
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,682	Originally Posted by Phlebas Sure, but if the JREF's only mission becomes organizing a conference for everyone else, then I don't see much of a point in the JREF continuing. CFI and whomever else can contact one of the existing event-planning organizations themselves to set it up. Perhaps they could call it "CSICon" or some such.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

2nd September 2014, 05:40 AM	#62
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 53,052	Originally Posted by Brive1987 TAM is a refuge for MRAs and chill girls I'm not a chill girl (at least I don't think I am) so I must be an MRA. Whatever that is. Do I get a membership card? Originally Posted by Brive1987 Swoopy has simply given up Who (or what) is "Swoopy"?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

2nd September 2014, 05:42 AM	#63
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,716	Isn't it a bit soon to be picking over the bones when the body is still alive?

2nd September 2014, 05:51 AM	#64
Reno Inquisitor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,483	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Who (or what) is "Swoopy"? Skepticality
	__________________ "You're entitled to your opinion; you're just not entitled to have it taken seriously when you can offer no evidence to support it." - Garrison "I am the danger." - Heisenberg

2nd September 2014, 05:52 AM	#65
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 53,052	Originally Posted by Reno Skepticality I had to google that. I don't subscribe to Skeptic, which is why I never heard of it.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

2nd September 2014, 05:59 AM	#66
Brive1987 Muse Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 556	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I had to google that. I don't subscribe to Skeptic, which is why I never heard of it. One of the first podcasts lauded by Jobs. Now pretty much flotsam.
Brive1987 Muse Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 556

2nd September 2014, 06:01 AM	#67
Aepervius Non credunt, semper verificare Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sigil, the city of doors Posts: 14,581	Originally Posted by malicus This whole month smacks of estate planning. Sensible, but kinda sad. I thought so too...

2nd September 2014, 06:03 AM	#68
Aepervius Non credunt, semper verificare Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sigil, the city of doors Posts: 14,581	Originally Posted by Cleon It's not like there's a lack of skeptic/atheist conferences these days. Maybe that's because I do not know many young atheist (practically beside a few youtuber like AaronRa and thinkingAtheist) but it feels as the old guard is passing away, and whereas there seems to be more young atheist (as watching the conference keynote), they are as a whole less known.

2nd September 2014, 06:08 AM	#69
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Isn't it a bit soon to be picking over the bones when the body is still alive? Whether the body is still alive (or should be put out of its misery) is really what we're talking about.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 06:11 AM	#70
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901	Originally Posted by Cleon Perhaps they could call it "CSICon" or some such. Apparently the existing CSICon doesn't qualify as a national skeptics conference, for reasons I expect to remain unclear.
Phlebas Muse Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 901

2nd September 2014, 06:13 AM	#71
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,684	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I should clarify that TAM was great before DJ and continued to be while he was there. In fact, TAM XII (2014) was among the best. What makes you confident there will be a TAM XIII?
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

2nd September 2014, 06:17 AM	#72
jhunter1163 beer-swilling semiliterate Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes. Posts: 25,313	Looking at the 990 for 2013, revenue dropped from around $1.25 million in 2012 to just under $900,000, and they ran a $150,000 loss for the year. That's not sustainable for any length of time when you're a small nonprofit and your major asset (the million dollars) is locked up.

2nd September 2014, 06:23 AM	#73
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 6,520	Originally Posted by Brive1987 So apparently the narrative has been set in place by the SJ wing: Shermer is a rapist Radford is a harasser and abuser Krauss is just weird DJ is a misogenistic cad Dawkins is a privilaged fool TAM is a refuge for MRAs and chill girls PZ and Watson are the voice of reason What's clearly fact is that: Hitch is dead Stenger is dead Hrab has mostly withdrawn into music because of the drama Swoopy has simply given up Oh the madness. Meanwhile the JREF forums are to be cut loose as surplus to needs. From what I can see George Hrab is still active in the skeptical community. He's been on SGU podcast and has been an MC at (I think) TAM in the past year. My understanding from listening to Skepticality (co-hosted by Derek and Swoopy) is that Swoopy is studying full-time at university and simply does not have the time assist in the production of the podcast. If you have different information, you're welcome to present it.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.

2nd September 2014, 06:27 AM	#74
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,682	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain From what I can see George Hrab is still active in the skeptical community. He's been on SGU podcast and has been an MC at (I think) TAM in the past year. He was MC this year. Two months ago. Quote: My understanding from listening to Skepticality (co-hosted by Derek and Swoopy) is that Swoopy is studying full-time at university and simply does not have the time assist in the production of the podcast. If you have different information, you're welcome to present it. Swoopy is very involved in the Skeptrack at DragonCon, even if she's scaled back the podcasting.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

2nd September 2014, 06:32 AM	#75
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 53,052	Originally Posted by Phlebas Apparently the existing CSICon doesn't qualify as a national skeptics conference, for reasons I expect to remain unclear. It's hard to qualify as a national skeptics conference when you don't exist.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer