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Old 3rd September 2014, 01:32 PM   #1
Darat
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Terms and conditions for the International Skeptics Forum

Mod InfoLatest version can be found in this post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post10216157
Posted By:Darat
Please have a read of the draft of the new terms and conditions members will have to agree to before their accounts are active on the new International Skeptics Forum.

Whilst the format of the terms and conditions have been altered somewhat - for example the privacy policy is no longer a separate document much remains the same.

Many of the changes revolve around making the language clearer to understand but there are significant changes as a result of the change of ownership of the new Forum and the owners rights to reassign the licence members grant to use their content.

If you do have feedback please let me know.



(There is a separate thread detailing the schedule, see: The Forum's future)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ISF Draft Terms and Conditions 030914 .pdf (100.5 KB, 342 views)
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Old 3rd September 2014, 01:52 PM   #2
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Seems reasonable.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:03 PM   #3
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Would using, in the sense of reading without registering, constitute acceptance of the T&C? If not, the first sentence might better be this:

"By registering for and/or continuing to post on the Forum, you signify your agreement to these Terms and Conditions."
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:06 PM   #4
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I demand blanket immunity.

Other than that, it looks good.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:07 PM   #5
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Should it define what an Administrator and a Moderator are?
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Should it define what an Administrator and a Moderator are?
That's covered in the mod agreement and that won't be being changed beyond the changing of "JREF". See: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=27572
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:42 PM   #7
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Under the "How your information is used" header, we should include some kind of provision that allows the Forum to cooperate with law enforcement, as required by law.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:42 PM   #8
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Looks OK to me.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:54 PM   #9
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From the pdf
Quote:
When you register for the Forum, you are required to supply a small amount of personal information: an active email address, your first and last name, your state (if in the U.S.) and country of residence. This information is not viewable by other Forum members but may be viewable to Administrators and Moderators of the Forum and to officers of TribeTech or its agents.
Will moderators be able to see our personal information? I thought only admins could do so currently? And who are the "officers of TribeTech or its agents" who can see this information?
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Old 3rd September 2014, 02:59 PM   #10
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OK by me, I'm in.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 03:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by superfreddy View Post
Under the "How your information is used" header, we should include some kind of provision that allows the Forum to cooperate with law enforcement, as required by law.
As an informational for members, yes - as a practical matter, if you're a legit entity on the 'net you will be cooperating with law enforcement requests whether the members realize it or not.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 03:41 PM   #12
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I 'm comfortable with it, as are all my socks...
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Old 3rd September 2014, 04:38 PM   #13
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The International Skeptics Forum totally copied the JREF forum!
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Old 3rd September 2014, 04:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BStrong
Originally Posted by superfreddy View Post
Under the "How your information is used" header, we should include some kind of provision that allows the Forum to cooperate with law enforcement, as required by law.
As an informational for members, yes - as a practical matter, if you're a legit entity on the 'net you will be cooperating with law enforcement requests whether the members realize it or not.

Yes, but I think that's covered in any event in that section with this:

Originally Posted by Draft T&Cs
As a general rule, though, the owner of the Forum will not disclose or share any of the personal information provided upon registration unless you have given permission or unless we have a good faith belief that the law requires it.

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Old 3rd September 2014, 04:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CJW View Post
The International Skeptics Forum totally copied the JREF forum!

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Old 3rd September 2014, 04:44 PM   #16
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It looks good. That copyright notice is pretty daunting.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 04:46 PM   #17
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Small thing:
"... prohibit and/or ban the posting of messages by any member at any time if they should violate these Terms, or for any other reasonable cause."

Wouldn't this make more sense if it was
"...ban and/or prohibit the posting of messages by any member at any time if the member should violate these Terms, or for any other reasonable cause."
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Old 3rd September 2014, 04:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
From the pdf


Will moderators be able to see our personal information? I thought only admins could do so currently? And who are the "officers of TribeTech or its agents" who can see this information?
I'm also curious about this.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 05:03 PM   #19
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Scrolled to the bottom and clicked "I agree".
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Old 3rd September 2014, 05:34 PM   #20
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One question only:

Quote:
These Terms are governed by the law of the State of New York, and you and TribeTech submit
to the exclusive jurisdiction of the New York courts.
Why the state of New York?
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Old 3rd September 2014, 05:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One question only: Why the state of New York?
Why in the world not???

I'm definitely in!
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Old 3rd September 2014, 06:13 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One question only:



Why the state of New York?
That would be where the physical machinery reside?
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Old 3rd September 2014, 06:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's covered in the mod agreement and that won't be being changed beyond the changing of "JREF". See: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=27572
The mod agreement should be in a public space then and linked to in the T&C. You're asking people to agree to special privileges for Mods and Admins without letting then know what a Mod or Admin can or can't do.

I know it's always been this way, but you did ask for feedback.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 07:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One question only:

Why the state of New York?
That would be where the physical machinery reside?

Yes, that is so, as I understand it.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 07:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Will moderators be able to see our personal information? I thought only admins could do so currently? And who are the "officers of TribeTech or its agents" who can see this information?

No, Mods have no access to names and such, only Admins do. This is a bit of standard/default language carried over from the existing JREF T&Cs, which was (presumably) put in place 'just in case'. You (and every other member) have, of course, the option not to agree to the new T&Cs if you take issue with them in any regard.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 07:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
And who are the "officers of TribeTech or its agents" who can see this information?
I don't know about officers, but agents usually refers to people that (in this case) TribeTech assigns certain tasks or responsibilities to. So an offsite backup provider would have a copy of the data sitting on their servers. Technical administrators would have console level root access to the operating system. Sometimes the companies providing the hardware have a certain level of access for remote hand and eyes if stuff goes wonky and remote access isn't working (though I don't think that's the case here). The server provider might have access to the physical disks (likely in the kind of setup we're going to) so in theory has access to the server disk and any snapshots taken. That kind of thing.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 08:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Why in the world not???

I'm definitely in!
It may have escaped your notice but most of the world doesn't live there.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 08:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
Yes, that is so, as I understand it.
If this is the case then I have no further questions.

Bring it on!
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Old 3rd September 2014, 08:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
All posts are the opinions of their authors and are not the views or opinions of TribeTech.
"All posts are the opinions of their authors and are not necessarily the views or opinions of TribeTech or its agents."

Quote:
By posting, uploading, or sharing your content on the Forum, you grant TribeTech a perpetual, non-exclusive, sub-licensable, royalty-free, transferable, worldwide license to access, use, and display your content, which includes without limitation the right for TribeTech or any third party it designates, to publish, copy, excerpt, transmit, use, host, index, cache, distribute, display, create derivative works of, modify and adapt, in any form or media now known or subsequently developed.
I realize this in intended to cover a lot of trouble spots, including possible baton-passing were that to become necessary, but as a whole, this copyright paragraph is a bit off-putting.

Quote:
Copyright on content generated prior to TribeTech’s hosting of the Forum remains with the member, and such content has been republished on the Forum by the James Randi Educational Foundation pursuant to its license.
"Copyright on the Forum content generated prior to TribeTech’s hosting of the Forum remains with the member, and such content has been republished on the Forum by the James Randi Educational Foundation pursuant to its license."

Quote:
When your computer connects to the Forum, a record is kept of your IP Address .
"When your computer connects to the Forum, a record is kept made of your IP Address." --You are making no promise to keep the records.


I didn't see an agreement term that explicitly permitted TribeTech to transfer the entire agreement and all of its rights under it to a third party. Wouldn't that resolve the passing-of-the-baton problem without the ungodly copyright condition?
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Old 3rd September 2014, 09:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
One question only:



Why the state of New York?


Because that's where the lawyer who looked at this was licensed. His thought process was, "Well, I know this is all okay in New York. I have no idea how any of it might be interpreted outside of New York. If we ever get sued, I want to be able to handle the matter without hiring local counsel. Also, this same wording has been in every contract I've ever seen and I might as well put it in because I'm not about to be the one who screws this up."

As a lawyer in New York, I'm pretty sure that was exactly what happened.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 09:31 PM   #31
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Old 3rd September 2014, 10:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I demand blanket immunity.
Not until you give me back my blankie. Hurry!! I - I need it!!!
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Old 3rd September 2014, 10:09 PM   #33
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I'm in also.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 10:10 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
No, Mods have no access to names and such, only Admins do. This is a bit of standard/default language carried over from the existing JREF T&Cs, which was (presumably) put in place 'just in case'. You (and every other member) have, of course, the option not to agree to the new T&Cs if you take issue with them in any regard.
Mods do not have access to the database, so cannot look up details at will. However, names do occasionally get disclosed in the moderation area for operational reasons.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 10:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Mods do not have access to the database, so cannot look up details at will. However, names do occasionally get disclosed in the moderation area for operational reasons.

... primarily related to sockpuppetry allegations.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 10:29 PM   #36
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I clicked on the linkk and nothing happened. I heard the letters pdf in the web address so I wanted to see whether my computer will turn it into something that Synthetic Dave can read, but as nothing happened I don't know!
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Old 3rd September 2014, 10:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Because that's where the lawyer who looked at this was licensed. His thought process was, "Well, I know this is all okay in New York. I have no idea how any of it might be interpreted outside of New York. If we ever get sued, I want to be able to handle the matter without hiring local counsel. Also, this same wording has been in every contract I've ever seen and I might as well put it in because I'm not about to be the one who screws this up."

As a lawyer in New York, I'm pretty sure that was exactly what happened.
Sure, but I would also like confirmation of LashL's answer from Darat or icerat if possible.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 11:06 PM   #38
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Old 3rd September 2014, 11:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
The mod agreement should be in a public space then and linked to in the T&C. You're asking people to agree to special privileges for Mods and Admins without letting then know what a Mod or Admin can or can't do.

I know it's always been this way, but you did ask for feedback.
Those agreements were always public. (as far as I know)
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...splay.php?f=30
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Old 3rd September 2014, 11:32 PM   #40
AdMan
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IANAL, so I have no idea what I'm signing off on, but I agree.

PS. Can we make sure all members, including SusanB-M1 (see four posts above) and others, can access this info as well?

Last edited by AdMan; 3rd September 2014 at 11:45 PM.
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