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Old 28th April 2015, 10:25 AM   #1
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JREF TAM Mailing list discussion

Originally Posted by Rrose Selavy View Post
The FAQ privacy policy here still refers to the JREF and not the IS forum and presumably is out of date?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com..._new_priv_item

Also I just got an email from randi.org about TAM. Looks like they kept the member database for marketing when they transferred the forum.
I've unsubscribed.
I'd be curious on the second item. I have changed email addresses (Lisa was catching onto my previous forty sockpuppets), but it was still under the JREF when I did so. But I haven't gotten any such email. All I can think is that it's not the membership list but from other stuff you may have signed onto? (I know a statistical sampling of 2 is not a great survey.)
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Last edited by Darat; 28th April 2015 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:28 AM   #2
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I received the email for TAM, and I'm only a professional forum lurker
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'd be curious on the second item. I have changed email addresses (Lisa was catching onto my previous forty sockpuppets), but it was still under the JREF when I did so. But I haven't gotten any such email. All I can think is that it's not the membership list but from other stuff you may have signed onto? (I know a statistical sampling of 2 is not a great survey.)

I also haven't received anything from JREF since the "transformation".
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I also haven't received anything from JREF since the "transformation".
Ditto.

If anyone is still getting emails from JREF, it will be through the JREF itself.

Did any of you leave a message on Randi's blog or email JREF at some time?
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:28 AM   #5
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I had an email regarding TAM this afternoon, and to the best of my recollection I've never commented on Swift, left a message on Randi's blog or emailed JREF.
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:45 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
I had an email regarding TAM this afternoon, and to the best of my recollection I've never commented on Swift, left a message on Randi's blog or emailed JREF.
The same goes for me.
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
I had an email regarding TAM this afternoon, and to the best of my recollection I've never commented on Swift, left a message on Randi's blog or emailed JREF.
Well, since I'd been getting emails on a frequent basis and haven't had one since, the only possibility would appear that JREF did have the list of emails but manually sorted into those who might one day support JREF, and as you're a mod, you'd certainly be a keeper.

That Childlike Empress and myself aren't on that list would tend to provide strong evidence that was the case.
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:54 AM   #8
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I got two emails, to 2 different e-addresses of mine. I didn't know they had both addresses. I have had lots of contact with the JREF outside of the forum: commenting on Swift, speaking at TAM, getting a TAM scholarship and going on the Galapagos trip.

Are you mad at the JREF, Rose?
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Old 28th April 2015, 12:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
The same goes for me.
Active member since 2007 - keeper.

Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
I received the email for TAM, and I'm only a professional forum lurker
As long as you sign in when you lurk you'd come up as a keeper.

Originally Posted by Rrose Selavy View Post
Also I just got an email from randi.org about TAM.
Another keeper.

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
But I haven't gotten any such email.
I'd expect you to be a keeper, so maybe your address got get missed. Unless you've upset someone.
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Old 28th April 2015, 12:35 PM   #10
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I got an email about booking for TAM, but that wasn't a great surprise because I've been to it before.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Well, since I'd been getting emails on a frequent basis and haven't had one since, the only possibility would appear that JREF did have the list of emails but manually sorted into those who might one day support JREF, and as you're a mod, you'd certainly be a keeper.
Agatha wasn't a mod before the forum was cast adrift, so I doubt that was a factor.
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Old 28th April 2015, 12:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Well, since I'd been getting emails on a frequent basis and haven't had one since, the only possibility would appear that JREF did have the list of emails but manually sorted into those who might one day support JREF, and as you're a mod, you'd certainly be a keeper.

That Childlike Empress and myself aren't on that list would tend to provide strong evidence that was the case.
Why on earth would they do that? Does Randi pay per email for sending them out? I thought the JREF was down to 0 staff these days, is their highest priority really trying to stop you and Childlike Empress knowing about TAM?
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Old 28th April 2015, 01:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I got two emails, to 2 different e-addresses of mine. I didn't know they had both addresses. I have had lots of contact with the JREF outside of the forum: commenting on Swift, speaking at TAM, getting a TAM scholarship and going on the Galapagos trip.

Are you mad at the JREF, Rose?
Well , the ONLY other reason previously we got emails/PMs from JREF was to ask for money, and there are/were threads annoyed that the only time the JREF acknowledged the resources of the forum was to beg ask for money.
For example: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=227104
So I was among those slightly annoyed then and slightly annoyed now.


Quote:
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.
Since the forum and its membership now have no affiliation with the JREF, they shouldn't be contacting forum members and I don't recall contacting the JREF for any other legit reason they should put me on their marketing emails.
It was by the way, addressed to my real first name , which we were requested to provide when joining the forum. I didn't give them that information in any other way. It says:
Quote:
You opted in to receive news and information from JREF and/or The Amazing Meeting.
I disagree unless it was a clause in originally joining the forum. The link to subscription preferences has my real first and second name which as I said, i only provided as it was a condition of the JREF forum.

Last edited by Rrose Selavy; 28th April 2015 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 28th April 2015, 02:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Why on earth would they do that? Does Randi pay per email for sending them out? I thought the JREF was down to 0 staff these days, is their highest priority really trying to stop you and Childlike Empress knowing about TAM?

I agree, that sounds very unlikely. Especially because they never gave much of a **** about the forums and likely have no way of knowing how much of a "keeper" the individual members are.

I know 100% that I have never signed up to anything related to JREF but the forum, so I'm with FMW suspecting that the member database isn't the source for these mails.
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Old 28th April 2015, 02:19 PM   #14
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From before the split:

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They never (as far as I can recall) in all the years the forum was part of the JREF used the email addresses as a mailing list so I would be quite suprised to find they have started doing that from the ailing database that the JREF had.

I have received many mails about TAM and other JREF issues over the years. At one point maybe three or four years ago it even got a bit annoying. As I said, they could only have had my address from the forum.
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Old 28th April 2015, 03:35 PM   #15
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As I said, the unsubscribe link page has my full real name and surname.
I've never posted under my real name and keep it very separate from my online identifies only giving it for JREF to sign up for the forum because they insisted on it, nor have I ever enquired about TAM.
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Old 28th April 2015, 04:23 PM   #16
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Thinking about it, like FMW I also changed my email address not that long ago, actually on Fr 09 Aug 2013 16:42:17 CEST because Edward Snowden happened to use the same service I did.

edit: If "The Atheist" had also changed his email address in a comparable time frame, we'd have quite a good case for that JREF is using a mailing list generated from an older version of the forum member database.
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Old 28th April 2015, 06:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Thinking about it, like FMW I also changed my email address not that long ago, actually on Fr 09 Aug 2013 16:42:17 CEST because Edward Snowden happened to use the same service I did.

edit: If "The Atheist" had also changed his email address in a comparable time frame, we'd have quite a good case for that JREF is using a mailing list generated from an older version of the forum member database.
I think it's something like this/variation on this. Maybe they took a DB "snapshot" at a certain point in time, e.g. the last time Randi sent out a begging letter. Compiling a mass mailing takes some effort, so that might just be the last time they did it and my email from that one got bounced because it was my old work email.

T-A... they have no staff. I doubt they're sitting there going through a list of 32,000 members or even 2000/2500 semi-active users and screening for "potential" v. "barking dogs". It would require more knowledge than any of them ever had of the membership.
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Old 28th April 2015, 07:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Why on earth would they do that? Does Randi pay per email for sending them out? I thought the JREF was down to 0 staff these days, is their highest priority really trying to stop you and Childlike Empress knowing about TAM?
Nothing to do with knowing about TAM.

They would have kept people who they might one day get a dollar from.

As an official listed enemy of JREF, I wouldn't be one of those people, and I'm pretty sure CE isn't one either.
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Old 28th April 2015, 07:47 PM   #19
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The email is generated by MailChimp, and the JREF obviously has a paid account since there is no MailChimp banner on the message.

As MailChimp is fully compliant with all international anti-spam laws, you can click on the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the message to remove yourself instantly from the list. It is literally against international law for them to re-add you without your consent.

So if it bothers you that they have your address, there's the solution.
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:41 PM   #20
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I too received that e-mail from JREF. I have never been to a TAM. I did use Swift. I wonder if anyone who joined since the split also got an e-mail?
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:45 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
So if it bothers you that they have your address, there's the solution.


So you basically have no idea what this thread is about?
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
I had an email regarding TAM this afternoon, and to the best of my recollection I've never commented on Swift, left a message on Randi's blog or emailed JREF.

Same here.

They most definitely got my email from the forum side of things.

I seem to remember a thread from a few years ago about some weird hijinx that was going on with randi.org emailing people advertisements or something... Anyone remember that?
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
So you basically have no idea what this thread is about?
I have to admit, I don't. I missed something with all this JREF animosity. Help me out, fill me in. Thanks.
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
I seem to remember a thread from a few years ago about some weird hijinx that was going on with randi.org emailing people advertisements or something... Anyone remember that?
If I'm thinking of the same thread, that was during the dark days of the Grothe presidency. The JREF sent out several requests for donations, to the extent that some people (me included) received multiple copies in a short period of time. Grothe at the time seemed to subscribe to the "nagging" school of fundraising thought, and it didn't endear him to the people who were receiving his messages.
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Locknar View Post
Yes, this appears to have been missed during the transition and will be corrected later today. Thank you for pointing this out.

Off hand, no idea.
I got the notification also.......thought about posting but decided not to bother. Oh well, now I have.
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Old 29th April 2015, 01:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If I'm thinking of the same thread, that was during the dark days of the Grothe presidency. The JREF sent out several requests for donations, to the extent that some people (me included) received multiple copies in a short period of time. Grothe at the time seemed to subscribe to the "nagging" school of fundraising thought, and it didn't endear him to the people who were receiving his messages.
Oh, it went back earlier than that. Randi got whinged about one year around the holiday season for sending out a fund-raising email. Can't recall if it was the same complainers (and I believe it was a single message) but some people just don't like being solicited.

Meh? I don't care. I'm just curious (and I doubt we'll ever get a clear answer) as to why some names are on the list and some not. I do not buy into T_A's theory that it's people on or off the "enemies list". I think that assumes organizational abilities and desires beyond the current JREF. The_Atheist was on Jeff Wagg's "no fly" list. I doubt Jeff left a Nixonian enemies list that the remaining staff lived and worked with. And while I realize that disliking CE is a pastime with some forumites, I truly doubt that the Foundation has ever heard of Childlike Empress or Foolmewunz.

It's a list that was captured at a certain point in time. Maybe they have the internet equivalent of a Preferred Zip Code List like the ones some fund-raisers have and know that statistically X amount of respondents from certain IPs are more likely to chip in. I don't know. Just speculating.
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Old 29th April 2015, 03:33 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I agree, that sounds very unlikely. Especially because they never gave much of a **** about the forums and likely have no way of knowing how much of a "keeper" the individual members are.

I know 100% that I have never signed up to anything related to JREF but the forum, so I'm with FMW suspecting that the member database isn't the source for these mails.
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Oh, it went back earlier than that. Randi got whinged about one year around the holiday season for sending out a fund-raising email. Can't recall if it was the same complainers (and I believe it was a single message) but some people just don't like being solicited.
See my previous post with the link to the thread from Dec 2011 with annoyance about not an email, but a PM from Randi, sent out Via the forum. Here it is again:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=227104
Also , this mailout list is not directly connected with posting comments on Swift.
Those who got one , click on the "update subscription preferences" right at the bottom of the email. Does the linked page show your real name, the one you were required to provide when signing up to the JREF forum?

Last edited by Rrose Selavy; 29th April 2015 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 30th April 2015, 02:18 AM   #28
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Old 30th April 2015, 02:44 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
I had an email regarding TAM this afternoon, and to the best of my recollection I've never commented on Swift, left a message on Randi's blog or emailed JREF.
This. Plus, I unsuscribed from all JREF emails except for forum notifications when they were sending out begging letters. Looks to me like JREF is engaging in unethical use of the old forum database.

The letter I got was addressed to my real first name. I didn't pay attention to what name was on the unsuscribe page.

This message was at the end of the email:
Quote:
You opted in to receive news and information from JREF and/or The Amazing Meeting.
I may have done so when I first joined the JREF forum, but as I stated above, I unsuscribed when the begging letters started.

And, I've just blocked the randi.org domain so I don't have to deal with their spam anymore.
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Old 30th April 2015, 04:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes - it was superseded by the new terms and conditions.


They never (as far as I can recall) in all the years the forum was part of the JREF used the email addresses as a mailing list so I would be quite suprised to find they have started doing that from the ailing database that the JREF had.
I got the same e-mail about the upcoming TAM, but it may well be that I had signed up to receive JREF newsletters at some point.
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Old 30th April 2015, 06:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BazBear View Post
I got the same e-mail about the upcoming TAM, but it may well be that I had signed up to receive JREF newsletters at some point.
I got it too, but I figured it was because I have previously donated money to the JREF.
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Old 30th April 2015, 07:41 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BazBear View Post
I got the same e-mail about the upcoming TAM, but it may well be that I had signed up to receive JREF newsletters at some point.
I didn't get any e-mail about the next TAM from the Randi Foundation, even though I am a member of this forum since May 2012.
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Old 30th April 2015, 09:50 PM   #33
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I didn't get any e-mail about the next TAM from the Randi Foundation, even though I am a member of this forum since May 2012.
I think you have to open your mind. Randi was projecting a promotional message to you. You did not receive? Hmmmm?

You'll probably get the formal thank you for participating in this thought-projection experiment shortly.
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Old 1st May 2015, 06:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MetalPig View Post
<never mind; I overlooked the mod box>
This made sense before it was moved to this thread.
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