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Tags arnold schwarzenegger , republicans

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Old 4th November 2018, 06:35 PM   #1
PhantomWolf
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At Least One Republican Hasn't Lost His Mind...

... And Democrats probably could do with listening to some of what he has to say and learn something from what he tells them if they want to win over the GOP moderates who are looking for an alternative to Trump in 2020.

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Old 4th November 2018, 06:51 PM   #2
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Arnie's not a modern Republican. More hardline conservatives than he have been rejected for being too moderate.

I should add: I like him. His time as governor wasn't perfect, especially in the beginning, but he developed into a damned fine politician. He started with a state congress that was almost as screamy and partisan as we are today, and found a way to get everyone working together, locking the exit doors when necessary.

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Old 4th November 2018, 06:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Arnie's not a modern Republican. More hardline conservatives than he have been rejected for being too moderate.
Arnie is old school Republican. He hasn't swung so far right that he's become an idiot.
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Old 4th November 2018, 07:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Arnie is old school Republican. He hasn't swung so far right that he's become an idiot.
He started out much further to the right, actually. He was basically California's Trump. But a little bit into his governorship he realized he wasn't getting anything done like that, started actually listening to people, and ended up an overnight centrist.
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Old 4th November 2018, 07:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He started out much further to the right, actually. He was basically California's Trump. But a little bit into his governorship he realized he wasn't getting anything done like that, started actually listening to people, and ended up an overnight centrist.
You mean he actually learned something unlike Trump?
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Old 4th November 2018, 10:10 PM   #6
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I didn't like his apologetics in the second half for the erosion of democratic institutions.

His analysis that it is the fault of liberals making large deficits is just not accurate on any level.
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You mean he actually learned something unlike Trump?
Well for one thing unlike Trump Arnie is a hell of a businessman.
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Old 5th November 2018, 08:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well for one thing unlike Trump Arnie is a hell of a businessman.
And actually a self-made man.

I find it hard to have a rosy view of him given his 12th hour commutation of his political allies son who was involved in a fatal stabbing. The son was lucky to only get 16 years in a plea deal for what was basically a 2nd degree murder plead down to manslaughter, and then gets his sentence commuted. He killed a student when they were denied entry to a frat party.

Last act as governor was to scratch his political ally's back. Gross. Legacy tainted.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan...rdons-20110103
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Old 5th November 2018, 10:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He started out much further to the right...
Did he? I always thought that while he may be fiscally conservative he was also pro-gay rights and supported basic abortion rights (political stances that would make him either a Libertarian, or at least a moderate.)
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:46 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I find it hard to have a rosy view of him given his 12th hour commutation of his political allies son who was involved in a fatal stabbing.
It's not really as cut and dried as you make it sound.

Quote:
The son was lucky to only get 16 years in a plea deal for what was basically a 2nd degree murder plead down to manslaughter, and then gets his sentence commuted.
Well that depends on how you describe lucky, he plead guilty as part of a plea that offered a lighter sentence, and then ended up getting the exact same sentence as the person who actually did the stabbing, is that really "lucky"? Should he have got a longer sentence than the person who actually killed the guy? It seems that he was lead to believe that if he plead guilty he'd get 7-11 years, so really all the Arnie did was commute the sentence to that which was already promised as part of the original deal.

Quote:
He killed a student when they were denied entry to a frat party.
While involved in the fight, he didn't actually kill anyone.
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Old 6th November 2018, 06:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
It's not really as cut and dried as you make it sound.



Well that depends on how you describe lucky, he plead guilty as part of a plea that offered a lighter sentence, and then ended up getting the exact same sentence as the person who actually did the stabbing, is that really "lucky"? Should he have got a longer sentence than the person who actually killed the guy? It seems that he was lead to believe that if he plead guilty he'd get 7-11 years, so really all the Arnie did was commute the sentence to that which was already promised as part of the original deal.



While involved in the fight, he didn't actually kill anyone.
Yeah, truly a principled stand on criminal justice reform, which is why he signed the commutation two seconds before his governorship ended. No notice was given to the relevant prosecutors or the victim's surviving family.

The fact pattern around his arrest is not unusual. Felony murder is established law. Plenty of folks in prison serving long sentences for the actions of their criminal partners. The one that gets a commutation is the one with a politician for a father.
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Old 6th November 2018, 07:03 AM   #12
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I would vote for him if he ran as the Democratic candidate for president.
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:26 PM   #13
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In many ways I am a Schteaznegger Republican.
I live in Sacramento, and I saw he and his family when he was the Guvanator eating at Leatherby's a very popular ice cream parlor.
I have seen Jerry Brown there a couple of times, and no doubt will dee the next governor.
There Cookie Dough Ice Cream is to die for.
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I would vote for him if he ran as the Democratic candidate for president.
He doesn't qualify as he was born in Austria.
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Old 6th November 2018, 01:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He doesn't qualify as he was born in Austria.
This was already hashed out decades ago when there was some push to enact a bill to allow foreign-born to run for pres. Nothing ever came of it.
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Old 6th November 2018, 01:40 PM   #16
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I kind of feel if a foreign born person were to hypothetically carry a Presidential election that would be all the proof you need that the America is okay with it.

Yeah I know technically you would need to convene a Constitutional Convention to draft and pass an amendment but I've never gotten onboard with any variation on, in a democracy, having to ask the representatives of the people to do something that the people have already decided they want to do.
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Old 6th November 2018, 02:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I kind of feel if a foreign born person were to hypothetically carry a Presidential election that would be all the proof you need that the America is okay with it.

Yeah I know technically you would need to convene a Constitutional Convention to draft and pass an amendment but I've never gotten onboard with any variation on, in a democracy, having to ask the representatives of the people to do something that the people have already decided they want to do.
The only problem with your hypothetical is that an election can be won with a a plurality. That's acceptable when following the established rules, but using it to justify allowing a technically ineligible candidate is problematic; it can't be proven that the rest of the votes weren't cast because the winning candidate was ineligible.
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Old 6th November 2018, 02:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
This was already hashed out decades ago when there was some push to enact a bill to allow foreign-born to run for pres. Nothing ever came of it.
It would take more then a bill, it would take amending the US Constition...the prohibition spelled out in the Constituion. Not impossible, but very difficult.
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Old 6th November 2018, 02:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It would take more then a bill, it would take amending the US Constition...the prohibition spelled out in the Constituion. Not impossible, but very difficult.
Nah, sure it is like Trump says about Birthright Citizenship, it would be easy to do, no neeed to worry about the Constitution. What? You mean he was lying? Who would believe it?
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Old 6th November 2018, 02:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Quote:
...he plead guilty as part of a plea that offered a lighter sentence, and then ended up getting the exact same sentence as the person who actually did the stabbing, is that really "lucky"? Should he have got a longer sentence than the person who actually killed the guy?
Yeah, truly a principled stand on criminal justice reform, which is why he signed the commutation two seconds before his governorship ended.
Isn't that pretty common? With all sorts of commutations and/or pardons given near the very end of a term?

I can understand why it may be done that way... Yes, it might be nice to take a "principled" stand and issue pardons/commutations earlier. But the circumstances around them can be rather complex (like the one described here), and its understandable that a politician may not want to deal with the fallout from that when they are trying to run a government.
Quote:
The fact pattern around his arrest is not unusual. Felony murder is established law. Plenty of folks in prison serving long sentences for the actions of their criminal partners. The one that gets a commutation is the one with a politician for a father.
Yes, I'm sure there are other cases where people in jail for felony murder get longer prison terms than the killers themselves. The fact that it happens to other cases doesn't necessarily mean that its wrong to try to fix that fact in one case (even if that case only came to light because of a person's connections.) Yeah, it would be great if EVERYONE could get the attention of a politician the same way, but the reality is people only have so much time and ability to deal with things that happen on a day to day basis.
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
In many ways I am a Schteaznegger Republican.
I live in Sacramento, and I saw he and his family when he was the Guvanator eating at Leatherby's a very popular ice cream parlor.
I have seen Jerry Brown there a couple of times, and no doubt will dee the next governor.
There Cookie Dough Ice Cream is to die for.
Who the hell is Schteaznegger?
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
This was already hashed out decades ago when there was some push to enact a bill to allow foreign-born to run for pres. Nothing ever came of it.
One of the main reasons for it was that it was being pushed by a group of people that wanted him to be President and wasn't really supported by Arnie himself. Then after he left office the whole affair and love child scandal blow up and effectively ended both his marriage and any chance of him running for President anyways.
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It would take more then a bill, it would take amending the US Constition...the prohibition spelled out in the Constituion. Not impossible, but very difficult.
True. I would support such an amendment, but I don't think it would have much chance of passing. I think the requirement for the President to be a natural born citizen was originally enacted out of fear that some European power would try to get a puppet elected as POTUS, which might have been a reasonable fear then, but I don't really see it as such now. I see no reason a naturalized citizen shouldn't be allowed to run, and serve if elected.
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Old 7th November 2018, 11:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
True. I would support such an amendment, but I don't think it would have much chance of passing. I think the requirement for the President to be a natural born citizen was originally enacted out of fear that some European power would try to get a puppet elected as POTUS, which might have been a reasonable fear then, but I don't really see it as such now. I see no reason a naturalized citizen shouldn't be allowed to run, and serve if elected.
There's certainly no evidence that "natural born citizens" are immune to being puppets of Rus..., er, foreign powers.
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Old 8th November 2018, 12:06 AM   #25
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A foreign born president may have conscious or subconscious bias toward his former country and/or bias against historical enemies of his former country. I think the native born requirement should remain.
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Old 8th November 2018, 12:25 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A foreign born president may have conscious or subconscious bias toward his former country and/or bias against historical enemies of his former country. I think the native born requirement should remain.


What about a native born citizen of parents who immigrated from a hostile nation? Itís certainly possible that they could have the same kinds of biases you talk about.

I think there were good reasons to have the requirement when the Constitution was written but they donít really apply anymore. We are a nation of immigrants after all so I see no reason why a naturalized citizen should be denied the opportunity.


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Old 8th November 2018, 06:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A foreign born president may have conscious or subconscious bias toward his former country and/or bias against historical enemies of his former country. I think the native born requirement should remain.
Conversely, it's just as likely that a native-born citizen will have business or other interests in foreign markets that also give him/her a conscious or unconscious bias towards another country.

I don't think the native-born requirement offers any protection.

I do like the residency requirement, though; has to have lived here 14 years before being eligible. Might be reasonable to up that to 20, even.
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Old 15th November 2018, 11:07 AM   #28
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Old 15th November 2018, 11:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Conversely, it's just as likely that a native-born citizen will have business or other interests in foreign markets that also give him/her a conscious or unconscious bias towards another country.

I don't think the native-born requirement offers any protection.

I do like the residency requirement, though; has to have lived here 14 years before being eligible. Might be reasonable to up that to 20, even.
That's always possible but this is why US presidents are expected to divest themselves of such interests or put them in a blind trust. It is impossible to remove all conscious/subconscious bias but our Founding Fathers obviously felt differently about the native-born requirement offering protection.
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Old 15th November 2018, 11:38 AM   #30
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Anothere GOPer who seems to have to act his act together is the Governor of Maryland.
Maryland is a blue state, but he was easily relelected.
It is also noticeable that he keeps his distance as much as possible from Trumpy,

BTW I am interested ins seeing Arnie reunited with Linda Hamilton in the upcoming Terminator movie...it's the first one since T2 that James Cameron is heavily involved in.
One good sign;in this version none of the Terminator movies beyond T2 happened.
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Old 15th November 2018, 11:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Anothere GOPer who seems to have to act his act together is the Governor of Maryland.
Maryland is a blue state, but he was easily relelected.
It is also noticeable that he keeps his distance as much as possible from Trumpy,

BTW I am interested ins seeing Arnie reunited with Linda Hamilton in the upcoming Terminator movie...it's the first one since T2 that James Cameron is heavily involved in.
One good sign;in this version none of the Terminator movies beyond T2 happened.
I've never seen a single Terminator movie. Don't plan to, either. Not my cup of tea.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:05 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Anothere GOPer who seems to have to act his act together is the Governor of Maryland.
Maryland is a blue state, but he was easily relelected.
It is also noticeable that he keeps his distance as much as possible from Trumpy,
.
Similar situation with Gov. Baker in MA. He may have an R by his name, but that's about as Republican as he gets. Compared to national politics, he's basically a conservative democrat. Makes for uncomfortable moments when he was supposed to be out supporting his fellow Republicans running for national politics, as they had little in common.

Pointing to these governors is not very instructive beyond their state borders, they are well outside mainstream Republican politics.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:16 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've never seen a single Terminator movie. Don't plan to, either.
The first one's a masterpiece of sci-fi thriller and the second possibly the best action movie ever made.

You should give it a go. Even if you don't like the first one, the second's quite different.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Anothere GOPer who seems to have to act his act together is the Governor of Maryland.
Maryland is a blue state, but he was easily relelected.
It is also noticeable that he keeps his distance as much as possible from Trumpy,

BTW I am interested ins seeing Arnie reunited with Linda Hamilton in the upcoming Terminator movie...it's the first one since T2 that James Cameron is heavily involved in.
One good sign;in this version none of the Terminator movies beyond T2 happened.
Curious to see how they explain away Arnies' obvious aging.
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Curious to see how they explain away Arnies' obvious aging.
Obviously he'll be an older model...

*Ba-dump-ching!*
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Old 15th November 2018, 12:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Curious to see how they explain away Arnies' obvious aging.
They could do like in Genisys and simply have his biological parts age normally.
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Old 15th November 2018, 06:43 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The first one's a masterpiece of sci-fi thriller and the second possibly the best action movie ever made.

You should give it a go. Even if you don't like the first one, the second's quite different.
I don't care for 'action' movies.
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Sadly I believe that this is faked.

The shot is a taken from a larger one of Arnold walking beside Harrison Ford, who is wearing a green flight suit, which you can just see on the right hand side. Other versions include two different "Han shot first" mock ups, and I found a third photo of the two of them, Ford wearing the same flight suit, while Arnold has on a blue jacket over the top of a plain black T-Shirt.

While I haven't been able to locate the actual original photo, I suspect that he has removed the jacket and is wearing just the plain black T-Shirt which others have them memed and uploaded as real.

ETA: As absolute proof that it's faked, the photo is from the set of The Expendables 3, which was released in 2014!

ETA2: Here's the original photo... https://www.slashfilm.com/patrick-hu...remake-update/
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Old 17th November 2018, 07:23 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Sadly I believe that this is faked.

The shot is a taken from a larger one of Arnold walking beside Harrison Ford, who is wearing a green flight suit, which you can just see on the right hand side. Other versions include two different "Han shot first" mock ups, and I found a third photo of the two of them, Ford wearing the same flight suit, while Arnold has on a blue jacket over the top of a plain black T-Shirt.

While I haven't been able to locate the actual original photo, I suspect that he has removed the jacket and is wearing just the plain black T-Shirt which others have them memed and uploaded as real.

ETA: As absolute proof that it's faked, the photo is from the set of The Expendables 3, which was released in 2014!

ETA2: Here's the original photo... https://www.slashfilm.com/patrick-hu...remake-update/
One clue that immediately gives away most fakes with lettering: The yellow lettering is all exactly the same shade, and so is the white. That's virtually impossible in a photograph with natural lighting.

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Old 17th November 2018, 07:52 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Nah, sure it is like Trump says about Birthright Citizenship, it would be easy to do, no neeed to worry about the Constitution. What? You mean he was lying? Who would believe it?
Well, technically, to call him a liar on this point would require showing that he knew what the truth was and that he deliberately chose to make a false statement with the intent to deceive.After all, it is possible that he is so ignorant of American civics that he believes he was telling the truth. On the other hand, one could also argue that it was less of a lie and more a matter of simply ********ting - i.e. having no respect for the truth and simply saying things with no concern for whether or not they are true.

I further suppose that it could be a strange mix of all three.
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