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Tags 5-G , cell phones , cell towers , millimeter wave , mobile devices , wifi

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Old 14th July 2019, 07:48 PM   #1
MattNelson
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5G Mobile Technology

I've created a YouTube playlist with both mainstream and conspiracy videos here: 5G Must Be Stopped. But this thread isn't meant to argue about why or if it should be stopped. I think this will be inherent during a cursory overview, and that 5G will fail [in the U.S., at least at the scale it's envisioned achieving by technocrats] after people's awareness reaches critical mass. I mean to educate and open discussion on people's experiences with the new technology.

The topic of health issues and EMF is to be discussed elsewhere:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=336468
Yet the thread phrased it as a question ("Is 5G Technology Really A Health Risk?"), with the OP introducing the issue using a conspiracy-minded video link (same as #3 of my playlist) that includes dross about chemtrails.... To save you some time, I've compiled some links regarding the proven health issues, scientific studies, and related activism here:

https://www.5gspaceappeal.org/
https://scientists4wiredtech.com/
https://www.saferemr.com/2018/11/NTP...reports31.html
https://microwavenews.com/news-cente...inal-rf-report
https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/cen...ncy_alster.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Pall
https://ehtrust.org/
https://ia802302.us.archive.org/28/i...g_workbook.pdf
https://bioinitiative.org/
https://www.cellphonetaskforce.org/5...ts-to-bullets/
https://www.americansforresponsiblet...ntific-studies
https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/
https://emfscientist.org/index.php/emf-scientist-appeal
https://ehtrust.org/wp-content/uploa...ns-4.16.19.pdf
https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/Sc...511283802.html
https://legiscan.com/LA/text/HR145/2...-ErYdirW6nba_0
http://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/...mLYCNK3_3AymSo
https://www.ntd.com/doctors-call-for...ks_339335.html
https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/lo...ey/1224775001/
https://www.govtech.com/network/San-...-Backlash.html
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ers-on-schools
https://www.koin.com/news/civic-affa...warning-signs/
https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-...510-story.html
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/anti-te...-bern/44956038
https://m.timesunion.com/news/articl...o-13843495.php
https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/Gr...510001741.html
https://wlos.com/news/local/local-gr...-5g-technology
https://www.longislandpress.com/2019...-anti-5g-rally
http://www.thebrillionnews.com/2019/...f-5g-wireless/
https://www.gq.com/story/warning-cell-phone-radiation
https://www.facebook.com/babysafeproject
https://principia-scientific.org/pet...se-5g-roll-out



How does 5G work?

5G stands for 5th generation. Previous generations of cell service work from towers that provide coverage of about 10 miles (video link), up to 22-45 miles across land. 5G needs line of sight with its range of ~300 meters, or less than 1,000 feet between relay antennae. These will be installed in a variety of setups, including devices on streetlamps, utility poles, corners of buildings (as seen here in NYC), and small cell towers on poles erected where no such configuration is possible. The WIFI boxes will need to be installed inside also, since the millimeter waves don't travel through buildings.

http://www.911conspiracy.tv/images/5...l_examples.jpg
- as seen at https://www.5gcrisis.com/identify (not hotlinked)

A common mistake is saying 5G means 5 Gigahertz. Numerous frequencies are being used for 5G. There is low, mid, and high band, which engineer Pawel Wypychowski divides into 2 categories, low being less than 7 GHz, and high, which is 24 - 71 GHz. See a screenshot from his slide at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrBiLbhvZCs#t=10m25s

http://www.911conspiracy.tv/images/5..._country_Pawel Wypychowski.png

FYI, see video explaining MIMO, "Everything You Need to Know About 5G": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEx_d0SjvS0&t=2m51s

Seen at 26:30 in the Pawel Wypychowski video, after hearing that about 80% of traffic will be for 4K/8K video, we see the projected sales figures:

http://www.911conspiracy.tv/images/5...nits_graph.jpg

That amounts to more than 700 million devices installed around the planet. Consider insect and bird population reduction, exacerbated by the required tree-cutting. Misinformation unfortunately taints truth about the tree cutting when "conspiracy theorists" point to the wrong examples. See https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-tr...elgium.t10506/ There are many relevant examples of tree cutting. If you speak Italian, see the video "5G: The Massacre of Trees" linked in the luogocomune.net article https://www.luogocomune.net/LC/23-en...e-degli-alberi at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17pohG0Z0Q0 (grain of salt...)
See also a Facebook video from Ann Marie Carey in England: https://www.facebook.com/annmumcarey...1627169095710/ and a Florida-area story at https://tallahasseereports.com/2017/...-canopy-roads/ Additionally, UK planning documents about 5G infrastructure specifically address the issue: https://assets.publishing.service.go...iderations.pdf The signal doesn't go into buildings, except somewhat through windows, which is why the WIFI units from Samsung are sometimes stuck there.

Quote:
Wireless Node
A cell site in your neighborhood creates a 5G signal, which is transmitted wirelessly to your home.
Receiver
This receives the 5G signal, and relays it to a router inside your home. It's usually placed on or near a window.
Router
This creates a Wi-Fi network from the 5G signal. It's powered by 5G wirelessly, instead of with cables. If needed, we'll add free Wi-Fi extenders for extra coverage.
- https://www.verizonwireless.com/5g/home/

While not billed as 5G, the SpaceX Starlink system of satellites (nearly 12,000) will use high "V-band" and "Ka-band" for their internet broadband system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starli..._constellation) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs Find the Starlink thread here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=337070 Speaking of satellites and 5G, but not necessarily Starlink, Bloomberg points out that NOAA is afraid that 5G may interfere with storm prediction: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...trackers-video "5G Technology Could Disrupt Hurricane Trackers."

Speeds about 10x faster than 4G (around 1 Gbps depending on location) can be attained if you are in the limited coverage area (and if it's not raining or you're inside next to your 5G WIFI). Low latency is the big seller for financial transactions (especially for Starlink), self-driving cars and networked robotics. 4G has about 45 millisecond response time; 5G, about 1 ms (Says CNBC at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DG3pMcNNlw#t=55s ) "Remote medical procedures" are becoming reality through robotics, virtual reality (VR), and 5G. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu9G7ef9uBg#t=1m37s from the Wall Street Journal.

Really, 5G isn't for cell phones. But people will buy them anyway, despite the fact that the phones get too hot and automatically switch back to 4G. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsvlm4Mb7E#t=1m42s ) The automotive industry has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the tech. (link) Uber is banking on it. The Internet of Things also relies on 5G becoming a reality.

All the data generated by networked sensors promises a world where privacy is no longer an issue. Your location doesn't need to be triangulated by authorities if you have a 5G phone, so if an IoT sensor is triggered when you have been documented in the same location with your phone at that time, you may be targeted for questioning by law enforcement... and any related data may be sold to the highest bidder. (See video at 15:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXbvL0uZkrY#t=14m30s ) So you'll see more ads that have ID'd you and used your recent activity on the web (assuming you're logged into Google/YouTube, Facebook, etc.) to compare with your interactions in the IoT universe. You can unlock your front door, start a blender, turn off lights, etcetera -- with your phone. So, then, can others. Just like people have hacked into networked baby monitors and webcams... which is why you should cover the cameras on your devices with tape (like Zuckerburg). The phone is always listening for you to say "Hey Google." What else is it listening for? One investigation confirms: everything -- to advertise, at least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBnDWSvaQ1I

Where Is 5G in the U.S.?

Only T-Mobile has a coverage map so far:
https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/ou...-coverage-maps
While speedtest.net is compiling its own map: https://www.speedtest.net/ookla-5g-map I've compiled a list of cities currently served (in part):

Verizon:
Chicago, Houston, Indianapolis, Sacramento, and Minneapolis, select areas of Denver, and starting July 1st: Providence, RI. Also "parts" of seven more cities: Austin, Los Angeles, Nashville, Orlando, San Diego, San Francisco, and San Jose. Verizon plans to launch the following cities in 2019:
Atlanta, Boston, Charlotte, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dallas, Des Moines, Detroit, Kansas City, Little Rock, Memphis, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Washington, D.C.
(sources: https://www.verizonwireless.com/5g/ and https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile...on-5g-rollout/ ) Coverage will be spotty for some time. (Sacramento complains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyn1b9BjK_c )

AT&T:
Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Dallas, Houston, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Louisville, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, San Antonio and Waco, Texas -- recently added are: Austin, Los Angeles, Nashville, Orlando, San Diego, San Francisco, and San Jose
(source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...19/3409787002/ )

Sprint:
Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, and Kansas City. Coming soon in New York, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, Phoenix....
(source: https://www.sprint.com/en/landings/5g.html )

T-Mobile:
June 28, just launched in parts of Cleveland, Atlanta, Dallas, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and New York. T-Mobile may merge with Sprint, FYI.
(sources: https://www.cleveland19.com/2019/06/...Z3ap148iOJvphY and https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...19/3409787002/ )

Last edited by zooterkin; 15th July 2019 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Rule 5
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Old 14th July 2019, 07:54 PM   #2
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Beamforming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEx_d0SjvS0&t=3m21s
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Old 14th July 2019, 08:47 PM   #3
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Another related thread, about the Manhattan blackout yesterday:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=337562

Where I posted, quote:

Possibly related, as the cause of the blackout is unknown.

Quote:
Mayor Bill de Blasio, who was returning to the city after a presidential campaign stop in Iowa, said it appears the outage was the result of a mechanical problem in the electrical grid.
"This appears to be something that just went wrong in the way that they transmit power from one part of the city to another," he told CNN. "It sounds like it is addressable in a reasonable amount of time."
ConEd CEO John McAvoy said the company is working to understand the cause of the outage and needs to do a full engineering analysis.
- https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/13/us/ne...ges/index.html

5G antennae are being erected on street corners in NYC as we speak. This is a huge load being added to the system... sorry no data. But am I wrong? I mention this because I just watched a video where Dr. Jack Kruse spoke of 5G testing in 2018 causing problems with the power grid. There were issues with jump conductance, apparently. See video at 19:00 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-kt3_oQ8ns#t=18m47s

A shot of a NYC street corner 5G installation can be seen in this video after the 1:07 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsvlm4Mb7E#t=1m7s

Last edited by MattNelson; 14th July 2019 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 15th July 2019, 12:19 AM   #4
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What a load of superstitious baloney.
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Old 15th July 2019, 06:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What a load of superstitious baloney.
This. Ignorant, Luddite nonsense, even pathetically trying to drag in the NY blackout.

Clearly the author has no understanding of electronics, electromagnetics or even basic physics.

Just look at his attempt to link the deployment of 5G network gear to the NY power outage claiming it constitutes "a huge load being added to the system". Not only is this utter rubbish, 5G is highly power efficient and a tiny load, but the NY grid wasn't near capacity load when the W49 substation failed.

Utter drivel.
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Old 15th July 2019, 06:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
The topic of health issues and EMF is to be discussed elsewhere:
Yes, and it's nonsense fearmongering. There is no established link between EM tech and cancer or any other health issue.

Stop it.
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Old 15th July 2019, 06:34 AM   #7
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Not holding my breath; I don’t have a decent 4G signal where I live from my provider, despite it being in a reasonably large town. No doubt they’ll have 5G in London before I get that fixed.
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Old 15th July 2019, 08:06 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not holding my breath; I don’t have a decent 4G signal where I live from my provider, despite it being in a reasonably large town. No doubt they’ll have 5G in London before I get that fixed.
Actually, the replaced 4G equipment in areas that matter will likely be re-purposed for older areas, so you might get lucky and get decent 4G at last!

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Old 15th July 2019, 09:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Actually, the replaced 4G equipment in areas that matter will likely be re-purposed for older areas, so you might get lucky and get decent 4G at last!

Well, that would just support my suggestion, that I won't get decent 4G until London has 5G in place.
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Old 15th July 2019, 11:14 PM   #10
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For the life of me, I don't understand why people who would like to make a serious argument would make it on a friggin' video.
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Well, that would just support my suggestion, that I won't get decent 4G until London has 5G in place.
And at that point I might get a 3G that works in more than one spot in the house.


Originally Posted by timhau View Post
For the life of me, I don't understand why people who would like to make a serious argument would make it on a friggin' video.
That's easy.
They discovered that if they wrote the stuff down then people could easily quote from it and pick it apart piece by piece, but a video requires a larger input of time, is not easy to quote, and so most of us just don't bother. That way the loon can sit there and assume they've "won".
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:31 AM   #12
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Anyone want to explain to me why we want 5G?

I would argue that current connectivity is already at the bandwidth limit of the human ability to absorb.

5G seems to be purely for machine-machine communication. It will be run by A.I. for A.I..
How people benefit from it will be far from obvious.
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Old 16th July 2019, 04:51 AM   #13
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What 5G? Hype free answers please.

Any reader have a 5G handset? One that works on 24GHz, say? How does the core network of a 5G system differ from that of a 4G one? How is the radiation from a 5G handset or base station different from what you’re already exposed to?
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
What 5G? Hype free answers please.

Any reader have a 5G handset? One that works on 24GHz, say? How does the core network of a 5G system differ from that of a 4G one? How is the radiation from a 5G handset or base station different from what you’re already exposed to?
To paraphrase Nigel Tufnel, "These go to five."
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:17 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
For the life of me, I don't understand why people who would like to make a serious argument would make it on a friggin' video.
The audience for YouTube videos is larger than it is for forums or blogs.
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:15 PM   #16
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Apologies for the missing images. If a mod can help clean up the links, one of which is broken due to a missing "%20" code where the space was, it would be appreciated. Please see the "global snapshot of 5G spectrum" to see frequency bands being used across the world.

Then see the "5G and Massive MIMO Radio Shipments" graph giving estimated sales figures over the next 5 years.

The source is this video/slideshow here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrBiLbhvZCs#t=5m29s

Again, this thread isn't for discussion of the many health issues with EMF/RF. I listed about 30 links and pointed to a different thread for that. The world is in denial, much like cigarette smokers in the early days. The telecom companies like it that way, having captured the FCC according to a Harvard Center for Ethics document. Now I'll stop.

This thread is about 5G technology in general, and users' experiences as the new tech is being rolled out across the world. My video playlist, again, is here... mixing mainstream and conspiracy videos. Apologies for the junk about chemtrails.

Like JeanTate, I'm interested in finding people who have a 5G phone. I want to see how often they get too hot and automatically switch back ("kick back" as Digital Trends says) to 4G LTE. (See video about the Samsung S10 5G in New York City.) I'd like to see comparisons in rainy weather, since rain inhibits signal strength.

I thought maybe that's why Seattle and Portland (being "hella" rainy) Oregon aren't getting 5G (yet/maybe), but that's because we (I'm near Portland) joined a long list of cities that have sued FCC to stop it. See https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018...1911540569147/

Last edited by MattNelson; 16th July 2019 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:36 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
What 5G? Hype free answers please.

Any reader have a 5G handset? One that works on 24GHz, say? How does the core network of a 5G system differ from that of a 4G one? How is the radiation from a 5G handset or base station different from what you’re already exposed to?
Yes. I am part of the Digital Docklands project and have used fixed and mobile 5G for nearly a year. I have FWA at home, in a customer site office and in a satellite office, in addition to mobile devices. FWA speed is typically >1Gb/s.

5G's main difference is the use of higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) than before: >30GHz rather than <6GHz.
This means it can provide far greater bandwidth, but also greater directionality, and that antennae can be much smaller than for previous generations of cellular base stations.
With more, more directional, antennae per base station car more client devices can be supported.
All this means lower energy levels are used, potentially improving battery life for portables.

However high frequencies means shorter range, hence more base stations, but also more redundancy in the mesh. Some of the frequencies used are susceptible to water scattering and absorption.

There are also two other less noticeable changes; smarter bandwidth utilisation and software defined base units. The former means 5G nets are better able to make use of the available RF and prioritise traffic for efficiency. The later means fewer hardware deployments and changes in the future, useful given the number of units.

Hope this helps.
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
<Snippage of conspiratorial drivel and factually inaccurate nonsense>
You have no idea what you're ranting about. Trying actually learning.
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Old 16th July 2019, 05:11 PM   #19
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The thread was moved to the Conspiracy section. OK. I look forward to seeing a 5G tech thread that isn't in the Conspiracy section.

Mod please note my images were not hotlinked (911conspiracy.tv is mine), so Rule 5 is not applicable. For example, the images of 5G installation examples, "small cell" setups on light poles and utility poles.

Catsmate, thanks for the info. I wanted an intelligent reply about the blackout, since I do not have a background in physics/electronics. (English B.A.) Well served. This is how I need to learn sometimes. What else is factually inaccurate? (On edit: for readers who didn't google Catsmate's "FWA" -- https://5g.co.uk/guides/what-is-5g-f...ss-access-fwa/ )

Last edited by MattNelson; 16th July 2019 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
The thread was moved to the Conspiracy section. OK. I look forward to seeing a 5G tech thread that isn't in the Conspiracy section.
Then start one. Just avoid conspiratorial nonsense this time.

Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
Catsmate, thanks for the info. I wanted an intelligent reply about the blackout,
Then why did you link it, incorrectly and dishonestly, with the 5G deployment?

Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
since I do not have a background in physics/electronics. (English B.A.)
Then I suggest you educate yourself before pontificating on scientific and engineering matters?

Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
What else is factually inaccurate?
Your implication that there is a significant health risk due to 5G cellular services.
This has been investigated by numerous groups and studies, back to the drivel spouted by Curry twenty years ago, and found not to exist.
Instead you continue to propagate the ignorant, unscientific, nonsense of people like Devra Davis, Jerry Philips and Jack Kruse.
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What a load of superstitious baloney.
hey, that's unfair to baloney.....some kinds of baloney are actually pretty good, can't say that about this BS.
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Old 17th July 2019, 04:14 PM   #22
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Would y'all care to elaborate on your spam? Any constructive criticism?
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:03 PM   #23
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Protesting 5G around the world... a compilation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLxeBuz0suM (11:28 run time)

On July 27 another nationwide day of protest is scheduled. To watch live visit your local Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile dealer. Thanks 5gcrisis.com.

Last edited by MattNelson; 17th July 2019 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Yes. I am part of the Digital Docklands project and have used fixed and mobile 5G for nearly a year. I have FWA at home, in a customer site office and in a satellite office, in addition to mobile devices. FWA speed is typically >1Gb/s.

5G's main difference is the use of higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) than before: >30GHz rather than <6GHz.
This means it can provide far greater bandwidth, but also greater directionality, and that antennae can be much smaller than for previous generations of cellular base stations.
With more, more directional, antennae per base station car more client devices can be supported.
All this means lower energy levels are used, potentially improving battery life for portables.

However high frequencies means shorter range, hence more base stations, but also more redundancy in the mesh. Some of the frequencies used are susceptible to water scattering and absorption.

There are also two other less noticeable changes; smarter bandwidth utilisation and software defined base units. The former means 5G nets are better able to make use of the available RF and prioritise traffic for efficiency. The later means fewer hardware deployments and changes in the future, useful given the number of units.

Hope this helps.
Thanks, yes it does help.

Here in this part of the US, there has an amazing amount of hype, and misinformation on 5G. As a reader of Ars Technica, I get some chance to see beyond the hype.

I remember one article, on handsets, which pointed out just how far they had to go to be even close to today’s non-5G ones, by a wide range of metrics. And another on the huge gulf between the claims of connection speeds and the reality (these are all trials, so not unexpected results).

Here’s a key point the OP seems to have missed: the wavelength/frequency of “5G” is just one part of the constellation of standards etc. Some of which have a long history, e.g. software defined radios.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
Would y'all care to elaborate on your spam? Any constructive criticism?
If you want to rail against the potential dangers of widespread use of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) in particular bands, then say so, explicitly.

Alternatively, if your beef is with the use of a particular set of mobile standards as enablers for an astonishingly insecure IoT infrastructure, say so explicitly.

Etc.

Reading between your lines, it seems you have a thing about EMR.
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:59 PM   #26
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I've got the Stevie Wonder album on vinyl, BTW.
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Then start one. Just avoid conspiratorial nonsense this time.
One already exists.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=336468
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:28 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
Would y'all care to elaborate on your spam? Any constructive criticism?
What "spam" would that be? My reference to you pasting a bunch of irelevent links, that you've not actually evaluated...

Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
Protesting 5G around the world<gibbersnip>
So you've abandoned any pretense of reasoned debate in favour of videos of idiots ranting about things they don't understand?
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Thanks, yes it does help.

Here in this part of the US, there has an amazing amount of hype, and misinformation on 5G. As a reader of Ars Technica, I get some chance to see beyond the hype.
Ah yes, the hype is thick. However the reality is interesting and bandwidth improvement of 20x are probable.
Dual mode handsets will be expensive and some manufacturers/designers are going to hold off on the electronics for a refresh cycle.

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
I remember one article, on handsets, which pointed out just how far they had to go to be even close to today’s non-5G ones, by a wide range of metrics.
In what way? Mostly of the 5G prototypes are basically the same handset.
I have two preprods on my desk from a certain major player. One has prototype 5G radios and the other doesn't. The software is pretty much exactly the same, excluding the updates I haven't done.

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
And another on the huge gulf between the claims of connection speeds and the reality (these are all trials, so not unexpected results).
That I would disagree with. I was highly skeptical initially (I've been in the ICT game for twenty five years) but the FWA speeds are on a par with high-end fibre connections.

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Here’s a key point the OP seems to have missed: the wavelength/frequency of “5G” is just one part of the constellation of standards etc. Some of which have a long history, e.g. software defined radios.
The main differences, other than the transmission frequencies, are down to software. Better baseline protocols for cellular comms were long overdue.

SDRs aren't new tech but recent developments have made them very useful at last; multiple transmitters operating with very little interference, despite frequency and physical overlap. Far better, on-device, signal lock and the vast possibilities opened by 'cognitive meshing' with adaptive frequency hopping and cooperation between base units. Pretty amazing stuff compared to the 4G rollout of only a few years ago.
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:41 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Thanks, but that seems to be much like this thread; long on rehashed nonsense and short on facts.
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
I've got the Stevie Wonder album on vinyl, BTW.
Have you anything useful or relevant to say?
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Old 18th July 2019, 04:37 AM   #32
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Thanks.

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Ah yes, the hype is thick. However the reality is interesting and bandwidth improvement of 20x are probable.
Dual mode handsets will be expensive and some manufacturers/designers are going to hold off on the electronics for a refresh cycle.
From your posts I get the impression that 5G is doing better in at least parts of Europe than here in the US. And from the Chinese press, it’s doing well in big cities like Shanghai.

It’s been too long since I was directly involved in mobile, so I now rely on sources like ars technica to strip away the hype.

Quote:


In what way? Mostly of the 5G prototypes are basically the same handset.
I have two preprods on my desk from a certain major player. One has prototype 5G radios and the other doesn't. The software is pretty much exactly the same, excluding the updates I haven't done.
Unfortunately, I can’t now find the ars article I was impressed by. From memory: the 5G chips are much bigger, and are not integrated (Qualcomm chips, not Huawei). The handsets drain the battery much faster. The form factor is challenging, due to the need for many antennas and “windows”; the handsets are quite a bit bigger and heavier.

Quote:


That I would disagree with. I was highly skeptical initially (I've been in the ICT game for twenty five years) but the FWA speeds are on a par with high-end fibre connections.
In carefully stage managed tests, sure. The ars writers who did their own testing, at some trial sites in the US, reported very, um, underwhelming results. Maybe it’ll all work out? However, so far it seems hype rather than reality rules. At least here in the US.

Quote:


The main differences, other than the transmission frequencies, are down to software. Better baseline protocols for cellular comms were long overdue.

SDRs aren't new tech but recent developments have made them very useful at last; multiple transmitters operating with very little interference, despite frequency and physical overlap. Far better, on-device, signal lock and the vast possibilities opened by 'cognitive meshing' with adaptive frequency hopping and cooperation between base units. Pretty amazing stuff compared to the 4G rollout of only a few years ago.
At the time I first learned of SDRs, well over a decade ago, the specialists wrote good technical papers on their potential benefits. However, they clearly stated that the then current technology - mostly what you could reasonably do with/on silicon - could not deliver. So cool that the promise is now being realized!
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Old 18th July 2019, 02:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
AT&T:
Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Dallas, Houston, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Louisville, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, San Antonio and Waco, Texas -- recently added are: Austin, Los Angeles, Nashville, Orlando, San Diego, San Francisco, and San Jose
(source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...19/3409787002/ )

I have an AT&T Samsung Galaxy S9+, and I recently flew from Indianapolis to Florida, changing planes in Charlotte. I didn't try streaming any videos, because I'd run down my phone playing Angry Birds 2 on the shuttle from Fort Wayne, and the chargers they had by the gates were abysmally slow. But for texting and regular Internet use, I didn't really notice much difference; maybe a slight increase in Internet speed, and no connection problems.
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Old 18th July 2019, 11:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
What "spam" would that be?
Not you. I greatly appreciate your presence.

Last edited by MattNelson; 18th July 2019 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:13 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
From your posts I get the impression that 5G is doing better in at least parts of Europe than here in the US. And from the Chinese press, it’s doing well in big cities like Shanghai.
Dublin and Dubai were the first trials sites. there's a lot of dense, high tech, sites in both.

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
It’s been too long since I was directly involved in mobile, so I now rely on sources like ars technica to strip away the hype.
And the tech refuses to stand still. Annoying...

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Unfortunately, I can’t now find the ars article I was impressed by. From memory: the 5G chips are much bigger, and are not integrated (Qualcomm chips, not Huawei). The handsets drain the battery much faster. The form factor is challenging, due to the need for many antennas and “windows”; the handsets are quite a bit bigger and heavier.
The handsets I've used (three from major players, all Android) all have battery life comparable to 4G. In one case I had two versions of an unreleased phone, one 5G and one not, and the battery life was within 20%.
However (caveat) this was without much of the network switching that will impact handset life. I was using them mainly in 5G dense locations.

My expectation is that battery life will be lower, due to the extra radios and the switching. Manufacturers are dealing with this in the expected way...

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
In carefully stage managed tests, sure. The ars writers who did their own testing, at some trial sites in the US, reported very, um, underwhelming results. Maybe it’ll all work out? However, so far it seems hype rather than reality rules. At least here in the US.
Europe and Asia have more density of metropolitan centres. 5G will work better. They also tend to have bettwe, and better supported, underlying infrastructure.

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
At the time I first learned of SDRs, well over a decade ago, the specialists wrote good technical papers on their potential benefits. However, they clearly stated that the then current technology - mostly what you could reasonably do with/on silicon - could not deliver. So cool that the promise is now being realized!
Yeah, quite improvement in materials science are delivering on the promises. Maybe I should have stuck with MatSci.
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Old 19th July 2019, 12:55 PM   #36
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Thanks!

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Dublin and Dubai were the first trials sites. there's a lot of dense, high tech, sites in both.


And the tech refuses to stand still. Annoying...


The handsets I've used (three from major players, all Android) all have battery life comparable to 4G. In one case I had two versions of an unreleased phone, one 5G and one not, and the battery life was within 20%.
However (caveat) this was without much of the network switching that will impact handset life. I was using them mainly in 5G dense locations.

My expectation is that battery life will be lower, due to the extra radios and the switching. Manufacturers are dealing with this in the expected way...
I found the ars technica article; it is dated 14 December, 2018 (so somewhat dated): Don’t buy a 5G smartphone—at least, not for a while

I wonder if the same Qualcomm chips are still used in the latest handsets. Also, whether you have any experience with what's covered in the article.

Quote:
Europe and Asia have more density of metropolitan centres. 5G will work better. They also tend to have bettwe, and better supported, underlying infrastructure.


Yeah, quite improvement in materials science are delivering on the promises. Maybe I should have stuck with MatSci.
I get the impression that the US is certainly not in the lead, on 5G ...
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Old 17th February 2021, 08:49 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MattNelson
5G Must Be Stopped
 
Yes well where I live 5G towers are being torn/burned down as ppl dont want them here!!!!

This really isnt very good!!
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Old 18th February 2021, 04:03 AM   #38
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^ You're right: burning down towers isn't good. Arson is a dangerous thing, especially in densely populated urban areas.
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Old 18th February 2021, 04:35 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
*
Yes well where I live 5G towers are being torn/burned down as ppl dont want them here!!!!

This really isnt very good!!
How do they know they are “5G” towers?
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Old 18th February 2021, 04:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How do they know they are “5G” towers?
why take the chance?

The Globalists could camouflage 5G towers as 4G ones.
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