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Old 7th May 2020, 06:09 AM   #1
geggy
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9/11: 20 years later

Here we are almost 20 years later and the US is still active in covering up the truth about 9/11.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...he-victims/amp

And

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/u...uantanamo.html

2000 USS Cole bombing trial at Guantanamo also has been a disaster.

What gives?
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:29 AM   #2
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Here we are almost 20 years later and 9/11 Truthers are still using the same old lame tactics and arguments.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=343977

What gives?
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:38 AM   #3
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The first article states the reason for justifying keeping documents secret are being kept secret. It's just more layer of coverup
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:06 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Here we are almost 20 years later and the US is still active in covering up the truth about 9/11.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...he-victims/amp

And

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/u...uantanamo.html

2000 USS Cole bombing trial at Guantanamo also has been a disaster.

What gives?
You are rather premature because the 20th anniversary of 9/11 will not be until September 11, 2021.
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:08 AM   #5
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I've long been aware of the cognitive deficiencies of 9/11 truthers, but I though most of them could at least count past 18 without getting it wrong.

Dave
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:10 AM   #6
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Dave what are your feelings about Barr not releasing documents?

Edit: if you have any
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Dave what are your feelings about Barr not releasing documents?

Edit: if you have any
Normal government behavior; they all keep secrets.

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Old 7th May 2020, 07:12 AM   #8
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:13 AM   #9
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You people are embarrassing yourselves heh
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:14 AM   #10
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Normal behavior? That's sad. What are your feelings about their "Normal behavior" Dave?
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I've long been aware of the cognitive deficiencies of 9/11 truthers, but I though most of them could at least count past 18 without getting it wrong.
Only if they do their math barefooted.
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Normal behavior? That's sad.
Name a single government that has never kept anything secret.

Originally Posted by geggy View Post
What are your feelings about their "Normal behavior" Dave?
I'm going with "Irrelevant to the question of whether 9/11 conspiracy theories are true."

Dave
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:19 AM   #13
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Keeping things secret shouldn't be acceptable to you don't you think Dave? Shouldn't that be changed?
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:21 AM   #14
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Again I'm not posting conspiracy theories here
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:23 AM   #15
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Can't you tell the difference between theories and facts?

Fact: government is covering up 9/11.

Theory: government is behind 9/11.

Its that simple.

Last edited by geggy; 7th May 2020 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I've long been aware of the cognitive deficiencies of 9/11 truthers, but I though most of them could at least count past 18 without getting it wrong.

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Old 7th May 2020, 07:38 AM   #17
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How would you know their narrative is true if they keep things secret?

Last edited by geggy; 7th May 2020 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:58 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
How would you know their narrative is true if they keep things secret?
How do you know they are keeping secrets if they keep the secrets secret?
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:01 AM   #19
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:02 AM   #20
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Interesting word play Joe! Don't you think keeping things secret would fuel more conspiracy theories Joe? It is a big problem
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:02 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Interesting word play Joe! Don't tyiu think keeping things secret would fuel more conspiracy theories Joe?
And that's why you're wrong. Because no matter what anyone says you can just invoke "the rest of the stuff they are hiding."

At least your nonsense is now in the appropriate forum.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Interesting word play Joe!
That's praise indeed from someone who just equated keeping some things secret with "covering up 9/11".
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Keeping things secret shouldn't be acceptable to you don't you think Dave? Shouldn't that be changed?
I don't have any such feelings about it, but please continue to make some up and pretend they exist. Fiction is, after all, the basis of the 9/11 truth movement.

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Old 7th May 2020, 08:21 AM   #24
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Too soon.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:31 AM   #25
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Dave why do you keep saying "fiction this, fiction that, crazy 9/11 truthers"? All I simply asked if you think government should be an open environment and you evaded the question so what are your thoughts about an open government with more oversight Dave?
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:35 AM   #26
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I mean they are supposed to be working for us, not keeping secret from 9/11 families
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:35 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Dave why do you keep saying "fiction this, fiction that, crazy 9/11 truthers"? All I simply asked if you think government should be an open environment and you evaded the question so what are your thoughts about an open government with more oversight Dave?
Geggy. You owe me twenty dollars. If you claim you don't owe me twenty dollars I will use that as proof that you are keeping your debt of 20 dollars to me a secret.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:46 AM   #28
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Joe I get what you're saying and I don't agree. Government has done some shady things in the past and they tried to keep it secret but the door blew wide open such as the Iran contra affair. Don't you think the government learned from the mistakes that blew the lid and applied the lesson to 9/11?

If Saudi was behind 9/11 and they are known to give financial support to terrorists, what are your feelings about US and Saudi cooperation on oil and defense?

During the Afghan war in the 1980s and after the withdrawal of the soviet forces, US and Saudi matched funds to fuel the rise of extremism. Read more about Charlie Wilson and Zbieknew Brzezinski, two interesting characters

Last edited by geggy; 7th May 2020 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:48 AM   #29
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"The government has done some shady things, therefore I can make up stuff and say the government did it."

Nixon couldn't cover up a break in at a hotel. Both President Clinton and the head of the CIA couldn't keep their affairs secret. Spare me.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:49 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
I mean they are supposed to be working for us, not keeping secret from 9/11 families
If that's the case, they should be no different than any other employee.

The only thing an employee is obligated to do is to show up when dirested to and do their assigned duties.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:49 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Joe I get what you're saying and I don't agree. Government has done some shady things in the past and they tried to keep it secret but the door blew wide open such as the Iran contra affair. Don't you think the government learned from the mistakes that blew the lid and applied the lesson to 9/11?
The door to Iran-Contra barely blew halfway open before Oliver North stopped it with his foot.

And no, I don't think the government learns much of anything from its mistakes.

What would you say is the mistake that led to the exposure of Iran-Contra? What specific steps do you the government has taken to avoid repeating that mistake?

Last edited by theprestige; 7th May 2020 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:50 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
I mean they are supposed to be working for us, not keeping secret from 9/11 families
Keeping secrets is in fact an important part of the job that government is supposed to do.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:52 AM   #33
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And that's the problem with the "But they are keeping secrets" mindset.

Geggy could be lead into a room where every single government document on 9/11 was held and given free reign to read every sentence of it and when donehe would just go "Okay but what about the stuff you're still hiding?"

You can't prove the non-existence of information even when it isn't specifically being argued as a "secret" or "coverup."
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Last edited by JoeMorgue; 7th May 2020 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 08:58 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
...
Fact: government is covering up 9/11.
...
No.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Dave why do you keep saying "fiction this, fiction that, crazy 9/11 truthers"?
Body of work.

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Old 7th May 2020, 09:09 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
...the US is still active in covering up the truth about 9/11...
I think you should tell us what you mean by "the truth" about 9/11.
What I get from the articles is that the US government is keeping secret some details related to 9/11. Do these details fundamentally change what we know about 9/11 - yes, no, or don't know?

Originally Posted by geggy View Post
...
If Saudi was behind 9/11 and they are known to give financial support to terrorists, what are your feelings about US and Saudi cooperation on oil and defense?
...
You are now conflating personal opinion about post-9/11 policies with a more complete set of facts about what happened on 9/11.

I think you should make clear what your topic really is supposed to be.
It smells a lot like a stale old Conspiracy Theory - but we can't be sure.

Why don't you define your terms, list your premises, and present a reasoned argument going from there? "Feelings" shouldn't be much of an issue in a forum dedicated to skeptic and rational debate.

I am reasonably sure that most of us would personally like to see more facts declassified - we are mostly curious people.
I am also pretty sure that few of us are satisfied with the wars conducted after 9/11 or the criminal trials of Al Qaeda members. I am fairly certain that nobody here is much of a fan of the Saudi Kingdom and the many compromises of realpolitik that the the US leadership is swallowing to keep in business with the Middle East.
Things are really quite complicated, you know.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:15 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The door to Iran-Contra barely blew halfway open before Oliver North stopped it with his foot.

And no, I don't think the government learns much of anything from its mistakes.

What would you say is the mistake that led to the exposure of Iran-Contra? What specific steps do you the government has taken to avoid repeating that mistake?
Lol Oliver "I did it for patriotism" North? He only came forward before anyone knew about his deeper involvement with Iran contra. Explain to me about his relationship Yair Klein and Mike Hariri two former IDF and Mossad figures who opened mercenary for hire companies that were involved with training far right guerrlia to overthrow Noriega as well as Pablo Escobar's bodyguards. Tell me more about Project Democracy and their framing of Laroche, one of the investigators

John P ONeill, thats how they fixed it.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Here we are almost 20 years later and the US is still active in covering up the truth about 9/11.

...

What gives?

Yes. The Republican President George W. Bush with Dick Cheney planned all of it. Then, three years later, Democrat John Kerry running against Bush, never mentioned any cover-up, even though it would have guaranteed him an easy victory. Obama never mentioned it, either, even though he would have cruised to victory just on that issue. Once Obama became president, he never once mentioned it even though it would have guaranteed him a second term in a walk. Then Hillary Clinton kept silent even though it would have handed her a victory. Our current resident, who loves himself some conspiracy theories and is not a fan of the Bush-Cheney loyalists, hasn't bothered to mention it, either.

What gives with that?
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:52 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
[] Explain to me []
Every time a truther demands "Explain to me..." somewhere in the world a cute little kitten dies.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:57 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Lol Oliver "I did it for patriotism" North? He only came forward before anyone knew about his deeper involvement with Iran contra. Explain to me about his relationship Yair Klein and Mike Hariri two former IDF and Mossad figures who opened mercenary for hire companies that were involved with training far right guerrlia to overthrow Noriega as well as Pablo Escobar's bodyguards. Tell me more about Project Democracy and their framing of Laroche, one of the investigators

John P ONeill, thats how they fixed it.
Here - I have highlighted the questions in the post that you responded to:
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The door to Iran-Contra barely blew halfway open before Oliver North stopped it with his foot.

And no, I don't think the government learns much of anything from its mistakes.

What would you say is the mistake that led to the exposure of Iran-Contra? What specific steps do you the government has taken to avoid repeating that mistake?
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