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Old 24th February 2021, 04:09 AM   #241
Captain_Swoop
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Ron Johnson is using his questioning time during the Capitol security hearing to promote a conspiracy theory that the January 6 insurrectionists weren't actually Trump supporters, but were "provocateurs" and "fake Trump protesters"
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Old 24th February 2021, 04:41 AM   #242
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If people hadn't died, it would have been hilariously pathetic.
But sadly people did, and that's horrific.

When people lose in a democracy, that should be the end of it, done, walk away with dignity congratulating the winner.

Going to court like some lunatic and whipping up dissent on social media was criminal and shameful.
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Old 24th February 2021, 05:33 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ron Johnson is using his questioning time during the Capitol security hearing to promote a conspiracy theory that the January 6 insurrectionists weren't actually Trump supporters, but were "provocateurs" and "fake Trump protesters"
So have them appear at the hearing and confirm that for him, under oath.
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Old 25th February 2021, 04:47 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Democrats need to start organizing now to **** him up in the next election. He's in a swing state and he's bat **** crazy.
I agree he needs to be voted out ASAP. I think it was Brian Williams that had the best response to him. If he really thought that it was fake Trump supporters, he'd want an in depth investigation to prove it and change the narrative and give the Trumpists a big win.
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Old 25th February 2021, 06:29 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
If people hadn't died, it would have been hilariously pathetic.
But sadly people did, and that's horrific.

When people lose in a democracy, that should be the end of it, done, walk away with dignity congratulating the winner.

Going to court like some lunatic and whipping up dissent on social media was criminal and shameful.
There was only one death that was tragic. As to the other four, the attrition of the enemy is always a positive outcome.
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Old 25th February 2021, 07:24 AM   #246
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Avoidable death is not a positive outcome. I would rather they see reality more clearly than come to harm. I can be glad they were not successful in their aims. Their death is still a sad thing.
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Old 25th February 2021, 07:42 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
There was only one death that was tragic. As to the other four, the attrition of the enemy is always a positive outcome.
I said horrific.
People like Ashli Babbitt were brainwashed into actions that cost them and others their lives. The death toll on both sides could have been a lot higher.

RIP the Policeman who died.
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Old 25th February 2021, 07:16 PM   #248
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#DEPLORABLELIVESMATTER
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Old 25th February 2021, 08:47 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Avoidable death is not a positive outcome. I would rather they see reality more clearly than come to harm. I can be glad they were not successful in their aims. Their death is still a sad thing.
The dumb **** and the other three could have stayed home. I do hope the disgusting carcass of the stupid bitch who got shot doesn't defile a veterans cemetery. Her kind don't belong being buried with real Americans.
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Old 25th February 2021, 08:49 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Halcyon Dayz View Post
#DEPLORABLELIVESMATTER
Only to the daisies they fertilize. As to the rest of us, a man does good business when he rids himself of a turd. The same can be said for countries. Four was a good start.
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Old 25th February 2021, 09:35 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The dumb **** and the other three could have stayed home. I do hope the disgusting carcass of the stupid bitch who got shot doesn't defile a veterans cemetery. Her kind don't belong being buried with real Americans.

Define real Americans, please, thanks.
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Old 26th February 2021, 04:43 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Define real Americans, please, thanks.
I suspect "people who worship Trump" would work for you. Agreed?
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Old 26th February 2021, 05:01 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Define real Americans, please, thanks.
How would you define 'real Americans', Bubba?
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Old 26th February 2021, 05:03 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The dumb **** and the other three could have stayed home. I do hope the disgusting carcass of the stupid bitch who got shot doesn't defile a veterans cemetery. Her kind don't belong being buried with real Americans.
Yes, they could have. And instead of celebrating their deaths I would rather wish they had stayed home.
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Old 26th February 2021, 05:37 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Define real Americans, please, thanks.
Not people who attempt to steal the election and overthrow the Congress. Oh and certainly not Trumptrash. Their kind are less than us.
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Old 26th February 2021, 08:24 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Not people who attempt to steal the election and overthrow the Congress. Oh and certainly not Trumptrash. Their kind are less than us.
Exemplified by the execrable dead-enders and militia nuts who are planning to "Blow up the Capitol and kill as many members as possible" when Biden makes his State of the Union. I haven't watched a SOTU in years, yet these cement-headed simpletons want to cause havoc and death because their fee-fees were hurt when Trump lost the election. If they want someone to blame for that, they should turn their ire at ex-president ***** -his- pants and his one term, worst president ever policies.

No, these imbeciles with their snowflake entitled self-absorption, dystopic fever-dreams, and brinks-for-brains conspiracies are definitely not Americans.
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Old 26th February 2021, 08:34 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Exemplified by the execrable dead-enders and militia nuts who are planning to "Blow up the Capitol and kill as many members as possible" when Biden makes his State of the Union. I haven't watched a SOTU in years, yet these cement-headed simpletons want to cause havoc and death because their fee-fees were hurt when Trump lost the election. If they want someone to blame for that, they should turn their ire at ex-president ***** -his- pants and his one term, worst president ever policies.

No, these imbeciles with their snowflake entitled self-absorption, dystopic fever-dreams, and brinks-for-brains conspiracies are definitely not Americans.
I say **** ending tribalism. I want the American tribe of progressives, moderates, anti-Trump independents and anti Trump Republicans to crush the Trump tribe and bring those things heel. Destroy them at the ballot box and if they want to try January 6th again, bring them to battle.
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Old 26th February 2021, 08:39 AM   #258
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp

I know it's the Daily Fail but it's still pretty funny. This dip **** called his ex a moron and she turned him in to the FBI for being one of the seditionists at the Capitol on January 6th.
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Old 26th February 2021, 09:15 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp

I know it's the Daily Fail but it's still pretty funny. This dip **** called his ex a moron and she turned him in to the FBI for being one of the seditionists at the Capitol on January 6th.
It's being reported at a number of outlets, so it's cool. I laughed out loud at this moron; he perfectly represents the average maga dead-ender: too stupid to realize how stupid he is. I wonder if he is one of those idiot Trump supporters who didn't even bother to vote?
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Old 26th February 2021, 09:07 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
It's being reported at a number of outlets, so it's cool. I laughed out loud at this moron; he perfectly represents the average maga dead-ender: too stupid to realize how stupid he is. I wonder if he is one of those idiot Trump supporters who didn't even bother to vote?
It's so funny. I hope he dies in prison.
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Old 27th February 2021, 12:11 AM   #261
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Really?!

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
It's being reported at a number of outlets, so it's cool. I laughed out loud at this moron; he perfectly represents the average maga dead-ender: too stupid to realize how stupid he is. I wonder if he is one of those idiot Trump supporters who didn't even bother to vote?
It's so funny. I hope he dies in prison.

Sorry about spoiling your mirth, but I find it grotesque. Yes, there are MAGA morons, and there are many of them, but unlike their leaders they have been kept ignorant. That they are ignorant to this extent is a tragedy, not something that should make us cheerful. At the same time, we have educated members of the MAGA cult in this forum, who are advocating the rights of these people to be this stupid and their own right to tell these people the lies that contribute to making them this stupid: Congress taking on 1st Am by proxy

Unlike most of the ISF members of the MAGA cult, many of the morons that make you laugh have the disadvantage of having had no real education to speak of, which is an actual tragedy. ISF's own MAGA cultists don't have that excuse. They want the MAGA morons to stay ignorant because it makes them more susceptible to the MAGA lies.

So stop laughing and thus behaving as the arrogant elite that the morons are fed up with. When you do this, you help the educated MAGA guys to present themselves as their allies because they want to help them stay stupid and ignorant and do so by spreading their lies.


ETA: Stop and consider what it would have required for you to have become one of them: uneducated, unemployed poor parents, growing up in a bad neighborhood with bad schools, not having had access to the kind of books that you have been reading - or the kind of people who recommended them to you, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, etc. All kinds of circumstances have contributed to making them the kind of people they are and some ISF members are working to keep it that way.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 27th February 2021 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 27th February 2021, 02:54 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
......
ETA: Stop and consider what it would have required for you to have become one of them: uneducated, unemployed poor parents, growing up in a bad neighborhood with bad schools, not having had access to the kind of books that you have been reading - or the kind of people who recommended them to you, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, etc. All kinds of circumstances have contributed to making them the kind of people they are and some ISF members are working to keep it that way.

It is a terrible, dangerous mistake to imagine that the MAGA crowd are uneduated bumpkins. Cruz and Hawley are graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a millionaire contractor. Many of the people arrested for invading the Capitol have good jobs or own businesses.
Quote:
Third, the demographic profile of the suspected Capitol rioters is different from that of past right-wing extremists. The average age of the arrestees we studied is 40. Two-thirds are 35 or older, and 40 percent are business owners or hold white-collar jobs. Unlike the stereotypical extremist, many of the alleged participants in the Capitol riot have a lot to lose. They work as CEOs, shop owners, doctors, lawyers, IT specialists, and accountants. Strikingly, court documents indicate that only 9 percent are unemployed.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...emists/617895/

The MAGA crowd is not a bunch of downtrodden peasants. If that were true, it would be easy for the dominant class to squash them. But these people are part of the dominant class. 74 million of them voted for Trump, 10 million more than in 2016. They are all around us, and they have enormous power.
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Old 27th February 2021, 07:38 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Sorry about spoiling your mirth . . .
Oh, you couldn't do that. I will always find it breathtakingly amusing when these insurrectionists out themselves and assist in their own apprehension and prosecution.
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Old 27th February 2021, 07:44 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It is a terrible, dangerous mistake to imagine that the MAGA crowd are uneduated bumpkins. Cruz and Hawley are graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a millionaire contractor. Many of the people arrested for invading the Capitol have good jobs or own businesses.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...emists/617895/

The MAGA crowd is not a bunch of downtrodden peasants. If that were true, it would be easy for the dominant class to squash them. But these people are part of the dominant class. 74 million of them voted for Trump, 10 million more than in 2016. They are all around us, and they have enormous power.
Indeed. These folks have positions of power and influence, yet they act as of they're the oppressed. Oh woe is them, these downtrodden CEOs, entitled evangelical christians, these cynical, carreer snowflake politicians.

Last edited by Resume; 27th February 2021 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 27th February 2021, 08:51 AM   #265
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Yeah, people mostly are what their brains are plus their surroundings so a lot of these folks are just some amount of predisposition + good old GIGO. You still have to take it seriously so that the influence of society isn’t just more of that garbage, but at the end of the day human mayhem is just a more complicated version of a dangerous rock-fall.

So no I don’t wish anyone ill will. I just want to see someone put up some erosion barriers or something.
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Old 27th February 2021, 11:15 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Oh, you couldn't do that. I will always find it breathtakingly amusing when these insurrectionists out themselves and assist in their own apprehension and prosecution.
Just as the Trump camp distanced themselves from the insurrectionists and tried to save Trump by saying those people acted on their own, contrary to his wishes, now a fair amount of the now-300 defendants are trying to say they were brainwashed by Trump and the far-right media and that they're all very sorry now. So if it's not Trump's fault because his followers are irrational and deluded, and it's not the followers' fault because they were mesmerized by a charismatic movement, whose fault is it?

Oh, right: "Antifa." It used to be that putting a name on your enemy was a good way of galvanizing opposition to it. Now you don't need the enemy, just the name.
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Old 27th February 2021, 12:37 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It is a terrible, dangerous mistake to imagine that the MAGA crowd are uneduated bumpkins. Cruz and Hawley are graduates of Harvard and Yale law schools. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a millionaire contractor. Many of the people arrested for invading the Capitol have good jobs or own businesses.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...emists/617895/

The MAGA crowd is not a bunch of downtrodden peasants. If that were true, it would be easy for the dominant class to squash them. But these people are part of the dominant class. 74 million of them voted for Trump, 10 million more than in 2016. They are all around us, and they have enormous power.

That only (!) nine percent of people participating in the riot are unemployed is not surprising since it is not free of charge to travel to Washington for most people. What you don't seem to understand in spite of my attempts to make it apparent is that there is a hell of a difference between Cruz, Hawley and Greene and the MAGA crowd, i.e. between leaders and followers. You didn't see those three march in front of (or in) the crowd of the Capitol rioters.
They were the people who incited MAGA crowd, not the ones who broke the windows.

I guess you could call one of the members of the crowd a businesswoman:
Quote:
Babbitt was a small business owner and self-described libertarian. She owned a San Diego-based business, Fowler’s Pool Service and Supply, according to California business records. Her LinkedIn profile lists her as the company owner since May 2017.
'She was deep into it': Ashli Babbitt, killed in Capitol riot, was devoted conspiracy theorist (Guardian, Jan. 9, 2021)
But she died in debt. She was no heiress like Greene or a 'let's-go-to-Cancun-for-the-weekend tourist like Ted Cruz, so your three named leaders of the movement only serve to make the contrast to the MAGA crowd obvious.

And while the rioters are being prosecuted, the instigators don't seem to suffer any repercussions, and they are the ones who have "enormous power". The ones in the crowd have diddly-squat.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th February 2021, 12:46 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Just as the Trump camp distanced themselves from the insurrectionists and tried to save Trump by saying those people acted on their own, contrary to his wishes, now a fair amount of the now-300 defendants are trying to say they were brainwashed by Trump and the far-right media and that they're all very sorry now. So if it's not Trump's fault because his followers are irrational and deluded, and it's not the followers' fault because they were mesmerized by a charismatic movement, whose fault is it?

The fault is obviously in both groups. What they have in common is the ideology, the American Dream, which works wonders for the rich:
I am where I am because I am such a marvelous specimen.
It doesn't work as well for the poor:
I am not where I am supposed to be, so I'm on the lookout for the people who have cheated me out of the success that is my birthright as an American: the foreigners and their helpers, the unamerican libruls and their Antifa helpers!

As in all cults, the instigators benefit from the delusion. Their followers don't.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 28th February 2021, 06:00 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Really?!




Sorry about spoiling your mirth, but I find it grotesque. Yes, there are MAGA morons, and there are many of them, but unlike their leaders they have been kept ignorant. That they are ignorant to this extent is a tragedy, not something that should make us cheerful. At the same time, we have educated members of the MAGA cult in this forum, who are advocating the rights of these people to be this stupid and their own right to tell these people the lies that contribute to making them this stupid: Congress taking on 1st Am by proxy

Unlike most of the ISF members of the MAGA cult, many of the morons that make you laugh have the disadvantage of having had no real education to speak of, which is an actual tragedy. ISF's own MAGA cultists don't have that excuse. They want the MAGA morons to stay ignorant because it makes them more susceptible to the MAGA lies.

So stop laughing and thus behaving as the arrogant elite that the morons are fed up with. When you do this, you help the educated MAGA guys to present themselves as their allies because they want to help them stay stupid and ignorant and do so by spreading their lies.


ETA: Stop and consider what it would have required for you to have become one of them: uneducated, unemployed poor parents, growing up in a bad neighborhood with bad schools, not having had access to the kind of books that you have been reading - or the kind of people who recommended them to you, a fundamentalist religious upbringing, etc. All kinds of circumstances have contributed to making them the kind of people they are and some ISF members are working to keep it that way.
So? He's just a Trump supporter. I'll never give a **** about their kind.
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Old 1st March 2021, 05:14 AM   #270
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My point is that they are not one kind. Too bad that you can't or won't distinguish between followers and leaders in the cult. The distinction makes a conversation with the former easier. You may even succeed in convincing some of them that they are being led by elitists who don't have their best interest at heart.
But you seem to prefer your elitist mirth.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st March 2021, 05:24 AM   #271
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A cult is defined by de-legitimatizing any non-positive information about itself.
Cult members who don't seek out neutral information themselves are beyond reach.

And any attempts to excuse the behavior cult members just adds to their sense of righteousness.

No, the Trump Train must crash and burn before there is any sense to look for survivors in the wreckage.
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Old 1st March 2021, 06:12 AM   #272
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How Pro-Trump Forces Pushed a Lie About Antifa at the Capitol Riot (New York Times)

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But even as Americans watched live images of rioters wearing MAGA hats and carrying Trump flags breach the Capitol — egged on only minutes earlier by a president who falsely denounced a rigged election and exhorted his followers to fight for justice — history was being rewritten in real time.
Quote:
Nearly two months after the attack, the claim that antifa was involved has been repeatedly debunked by federal authorities, but it has hardened into gospel among hard-line Trump supporters, by voters and sanctified by elected officials in the party. More than half of Trump voters in a Suffolk University/USA Today poll said that the riot was “mostly an antifa-inspired attack.” At Senate hearings last week focused on the security breakdown at the Capitol, Senator Ron Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican, repeated the falsehood that “fake Trump protesters” fomented the violence.

For those who hoped Mr. Trump’s don’t-believe-your-eyes tactics might fade after his defeat, the mainstreaming of the antifa conspiracy is a sign that truth remains a fungible concept among his most ardent followers. Buoyed by a powerful right-wing media network that had just spent eight weeks advancing Mr. Trump’s baseless claims of voter fraud, pro-Trump Republicans have succeeded in warping their voters’ realities, exhibiting sheer gall as they seek to minimize a violent riot perpetrated by their own supporters.
Quote:
A lie that outraced the truth

A review of media activity in the immediate aftermath of the Jan. 6 riot reveals just how quickly the right-wing media machine, first online and then on radio and cable TV, advanced the fiction about antifa’s supposed involvement.

The conspiracy gained new momentum after The Washington Times, a right-wing newspaper, published an online article shortly before 2:30 p.m. claiming that a facial recognition firm had identified antifa activists in the crowd at the Capitol. The newspaper corrected the article less than 24 hours later, after its claims were proved false — but not before the story made an enormous impact. The article eventually amassed 360,000 likes and shares on Facebook, according to CrowdTangle, a tool owned by Facebook and used for analyzing social media.
It all happened right before our eyes. We saw the Trump rally that happened just before it, and what was said there. And yet, somehow, people like Mo Brooks think that Antifa somehow used "clever mob control tactics" to control Trump supporters to sack the Capitol?
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Old 2nd March 2021, 08:48 AM   #273
zorro99
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
How Pro-Trump Forces Pushed a Lie About Antifa at the Capitol Riot (New York Times)






It all happened right before our eyes. We saw the Trump rally that happened just before it, and what was said there. And yet, somehow, people like Mo Brooks think that Antifa somehow used "clever mob control tactics" to control Trump supporters to sack the Capitol?
Brooks and Trump supporters are stupid enough to believe anything.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 09:35 AM   #274
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How long before we get to Jewish mind-control lasers from space?
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Old 2nd March 2021, 11:20 AM   #275
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
How long before we get to Jewish mind-control lasers from space?
yeah, I wish those Elders would hurry up.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 11:51 AM   #276
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From afar, this attempt to blame "Antifa" for the insurrection is SO remarkably childish.

"Little Timmy! Why did you climb up the bookcase and pull all the books on the floor?"

"Wasn't me, ma! It was...that kid next door."

"Don't lie to your mother. It WAS you because I just caught you up there throwing stuff. And there's no kid living next door."

"But ma, it WAS him! I saw him! I was never there!"

"Timmy, go to your room."
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Old 2nd March 2021, 01:46 PM   #277
Steve
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
From afar, this attempt to blame "Antifa" for the insurrection is SO remarkably childish.

"Little Timmy! Why did you climb up the bookcase and pull all the books on the floor?"

"Wasn't me, ma! It was...that kid next door."

"Don't lie to your mother. It WAS you because I just caught you up there throwing stuff. And there's no kid living next door."

"But ma, it WAS him! I saw him! I was never there!"

"Timmy, go to your room."
As I have posted before - Admitting that Antifa was so easily able to infiltrate the Trump supporters and influence them to the point of invading the Capitol is hardly a favorable indication of their collective intelligence.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 01:52 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
From afar, this attempt to blame "Antifa" for the insurrection is SO remarkably childish.
...

Or a Family Circus comic, replacing "Not Me" the invisible gremlin with Antifa.
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