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Tags 911 conspiracy theory , wtc , wtc7

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Old 23rd March 2007, 05:59 AM   #1
GlennB
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New (?) film of gash in WTC7

Well, new to me anyway, and comes as a bit of a shock.
It's posted at LCF and someone has already mentioned Beam Weapons

The video is here

oops. yes it's already in the "10 storey hole" thread

Last edited by GlennB; 23rd March 2007 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:02 AM   #2
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This is the first images I have seen of the actual gash. My understanding of the gash was originally based of witness accounts, but this just verifies that. The gash actually appears much, much worse than it was described by witnesses.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:05 AM   #3
chipmunk stew
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Well, new to me anyway, and comes as a bit of a shock.
It's posted at LCF and someone has already mentioned Beam Weapons

The video is here
Screenshots from that footage have been showing up recently. Nice to have the full footage.

The archived source is here:
http://www.archive.org/details/abc200109111323-1404
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:08 AM   #4
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Unless I am looking at the wrong thing, I really don't think that's a gash. I think it is part of the architecture. I've circled in green the two possible areas I think it is in the diagram below:
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:15 AM   #5
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You sure Arkan?

This image of the South side of WTC7 pre-9/11 doesn't show anything like the huge black gash we see in that film.



In all honesty though, I haven't really looked into it.

ETA:

I did a quick photoshop demonstration of what I am saying lol.


Last edited by The Doc; 23rd March 2007 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:18 AM   #6
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pic no workie there doc

ETA: actually, if someone could screencap and highlight the area in question that would be great. Then I would be certain as to what I am supposed to be looking at.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:19 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Unless I am looking at the wrong thing, I really don't think that's a gash. I think it is part of the architecture. I've circled in green the two possible areas I think it is in the diagram below:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...shade/wtc7.jpg
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
pic no workie there doc

ETA: actually, if someone could screencap and highlight the area in question that would be great. Then I would be certain as to what I am supposed to be looking at.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:24 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
Right here, yeah?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:26 AM   #10
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Piccie is working on my end

No idea what's going on lol.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Yep. The black/dark gray gash is about five columns from the left on the South face, which is the face shown in the pre-9/11 photos. There's nothing architectural to account for it, and its width conforms to the space between two columns.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Doc View Post
Piccie is working on my end

No idea what's going on lol.
It works sometimes, but not others. I think wtc7.net doesn't like hotlinks. Try re-hosting it.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
It works sometimes, but not others. I think wtc7.net doesn't like hotlinks. Try re-hosting it.
Ok, will do.

How about this one?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:37 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
Yep. The black/dark gray gash is about five columns from the left on the South face, which is the face shown in the pre-9/11 photos. There's nothing architectural to account for it, and its width conforms to the space between two columns.
Yeah, I think the top down diagram was showing the two buildings in front of it
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Doc View Post
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Old 23rd March 2007, 07:57 AM   #16
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It looks too cleanly defined for a gash.

Considering the well-defined vertical lines, it compares to the shadows that can be seen on buildings to the left of the WTC7 image, though much narrower.

MM
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:02 AM   #17
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Yeah. What kind of "gash" is perfectly straight?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:09 AM   #18
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Anyone have the damage diagram handy and/or general building schematics?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:21 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
It looks too cleanly defined for a gash.

Considering the well-defined vertical lines, it compares to the shadows that can be seen on buildings to the left of the WTC7 image, though much narrower.
Doesn't look at all like a shadow, though - there's nothing visible of the bulding structure in the dark region even though it's not completely black. Anyway, with all that smoke around, I think any shadows would be extremely ill-defined because of scattering of the light that caused them.

It looks to me like a big piece of debris took out everything between columns 5 and 6 for several storeys, but was prevented from doing any damage beyond that region by the columns themselves; it also looks like the columns might have guided its fall. Does anyone have any information on how the facade of WTC7 was constructed - in particular, was the facing made of sections that were joined along the lines of the columns, and what kind of cross-bracing there was between the columns?

As for the effect of taking out a region like this on the stability of the building, I suspect the final NIST report will have something to say on that.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:25 AM   #20
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with color inversion:
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Anyone have the damage diagram handy and/or general building schematics?




Source (alphabetic column labels added)

At the time of this document's creation, NIST was relying on "photographs, video, and interview records", and they do not include a clear photo of the south side, so their "Approximate Region of Impact Damage by Large WTC1 Debris" was probably estimated from firefighter accounts.

The gash seen in this new footage appears to be between columns C and D. It's perfectly framed between the two columns, which is why it looks so straight. It's not likely a shadow because there's no directed light (because of the smoke), there's no sign of any architectural features in the gap (it's empty, not merely dark), there's no good candidate for a nearby object that would cast such a shadow, and the likelihood of a shadow lining up perfectly vertically and perfectly edged by a pair of columns is extraordinarily low.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
It looks too cleanly defined for a gash.

Considering the well-defined vertical lines, it compares to the shadows that can be seen on buildings to the left of the WTC7 image, though much narrower.

MM
I was about to say "don't be ridiculous", but others have expressed it much more scientifically.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:11 AM   #23
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I don't think it's a reflection or a shadow... but it is pretty straight-looking. Is it possible that this whole section collapsed because of the damage below it ?

Anyway, it looks as though the damage to 7 WTC was actually worse than I thought.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't think it's a reflection or a shadow... but it is pretty straight-looking. Is it possible that this whole section collapsed because of the damage below it ?
Possibly, but the support columns framing the gash are still intact in this footage. I can't imagine how upper sections would collapse above a damaged area unless the columns supporting the sections were destroyed. It seems more likely that a large piece of debris ripped through the facade and the floors from the top, in a sense guided by the columns on either side.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:32 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Well, new to me anyway, and comes as a bit of a shock.
It's posted at LCF and someone has already mentioned Beam Weapons

The video is here

oops. yes it's already in the "10 storey hole" thread
You can see the gash in older videos and photos.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_damage.html
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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
Possibly, but the support columns framing the gash are still intact in this footage. I can't imagine how upper sections would collapse above a damaged area unless the columns supporting the sections were destroyed. It seems more likely that a large piece of debris ripped through the facade and the floors from the top, in a sense guided by the columns on either side.
That must've been a mighty big piece of debris.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That must've been a mighty big piece of debris.
Yep. Or moving mighty fast.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Minadin View Post
The evidence that it's even a gash is somewhat flimsy at the moment, I would say. I'm not yet sure what to make of it.
As Kent1 posted above, the gash is visible in older images (though less clearly). Before these clear images, I was unconvinced that what we could see included the damage the firefighters described. But the images corroborate one another, and with the clear image, I'm convinced it's the huge gash they described.

edit: images from the link:




Last edited by chipmunk stew; 23rd March 2007 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:34 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Unless I am looking at the wrong thing, I really don't think that's a gash. I think it is part of the architecture. I've circled in green the two possible areas I think it is in the diagram below:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...shade/wtc7.jpg
Arkan, what you've circled in your picture is the gap between the pedestrian bridge and the promenade that went over Vesey Street. Further down, the two buildings you're looking at are WTC 5 and 6. That is a wicked gash stretching from the top down 20 floors or so, at least.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:17 AM   #30
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Very rough overlay
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:35 AM   #31
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Do we have any experts around who could comment on the "smoothness" of the sides of the "gash" and if debris would likely leave such a shape?

TAM
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:36 AM   #32
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Arkan, I just did one, too!



DU conversation
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:38 AM   #33
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If you watch the video, and wait for it to zoom out, it is also very clear, if we are saying the gash is also present at the top of the building, that it is much bigger than 20 storeys...more like 30.

TAM
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:48 AM   #34
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That it one hell of a gash. To me it looks to run right from the top of the building, right down the centre.

I get the feeling that the final report from NIST will simply destroy any woo theories; apart from TS of course, his theories destroy themselves.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 12:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by stateofgrace View Post
That it one hell of a gash. To me it looks to run right from the top of the building, right down the centre.

I get the feeling that the final report from NIST will simply destroy any woo theories; apart from TS of course, his theories destroy themselves.
Unfortunately I think this video will make the NIST final report useless. Unless they specifically have an explanation for the smoothness we see in this gash, the CTers will cry foul, claiming they never addressed the "High Energy Beam" hypothesis that could have resulted in such a smooth cut.

TAM
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Old 23rd March 2007, 12:11 PM   #36
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Can we call this a 40-storey hole ?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 12:23 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Unfortunately I think this video will make the NIST final report useless. Unless they specifically have an explanation for the smoothness we see in this gash, the CTers will cry foul, claiming they never addressed the "High Energy Beam" hypothesis that could have resulted in such a smooth cut.

TAM
TAM, the sides of the gash are two support columns. Since almost all of the force of the debris impact was vertical, whatever lateral force it did have simply was not enough to bust through either column, so it followed a path between the columns, like rails. That's one plausible explanation.

If CTers as a whole fall back on energy beams (not likely) then there's nothing more to be done. They lose.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 12:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
If CTers as a whole fall back on energy beams (not likely) then ...
Don't forget "FAKED PICTURES!". That accusation has already come from at least one CTist who thinks Gaia has Global Warming under control and has been caught fabricating data in a thread about vaccines.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 12:48 PM   #39
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Not only is it odd that the gash has such nice geometric lines, the adjoining windows appear to be remarkably undisturbed.

MM
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Old 23rd March 2007, 12:50 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
Not only is it odd that the gash has such nice geometric lines, the adjoining windows appear to be remarkably undisturbed.

MM
How are you determining that they are intact? Or are you merely referring to the window frames?
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