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Tags arnold schwarzenegger , Gloria Allred , sex scandals

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Old 30th August 2003, 03:11 AM   #1
Tony
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Arnold’s Sexual Recall

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/41/deadline-finke.php ..full article


Quote:
Gloria Allred, California’s most high-profile defender of women’s rights, is demanding that Arnold Schwarzenegger answer the “very serious questions” raised by his lurid 1977 boasting that he participated in a gang bang at Gold’s Gym in Venice. In an interview with the L.A. Weekly, the Los Angeles lawyer and feminist who is founder and president of the Women’s Equal Rights Legal Defense and Education Fund added her outrage to what inexplicably has yet to become a real controversy over the candidate’s sexual history and attitudes.

“I am disgusted, appalled, revolted, sickened, disturbed and troubled,” Allred said of Schwarzenegger’s description of one incident in particular: when, with a startling specificity of language, the Pumping Iron star told the magazine, “Bodybuilders party a lot, and once, in Gold’s — the gym in Venice, California, where all the top guys train — there was a black girl who came out naked. Everybody jumped on her and took her upstairs, where we all got together.”
Quote:
Allred said, “There are a number of unanswered questions here that are very serious questions and shouldn’t be brushed off” by Schwarzenegger or the media. “It sounds as though it was a sexual assault or rape because he says everyone jumped on the woman involved and took her upstairs. It doesn’t sound consensual, though I don’t know for a certainty it wasn’t.
Gimme a break, this is bordering on slander.
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Old 30th August 2003, 03:59 AM   #2
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I think you mean libel.

I doubt Arnie would have a case, as Allred's not accusing him of anything, merely asking him for clarification. Her reaction seems over the top, though. She's reading far more into those 26-year-old comments than are actually there.
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Old 30th August 2003, 07:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
“I am disgusted, appalled, revolted, sickened, disturbed and troubled,” Allred said
She forgot outraged.
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Old 30th August 2003, 08:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Posted by Tony

Gimme a break, this is bordering on slander.

How is it slander (or libel), Tony? Allred is giving her response to Schwartzenegger's own description of the event from the Oui interview.

Its not libel or slander when you criticiize someone for something they say that they've actually done.
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Old 30th August 2003, 08:41 AM   #5
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Welcome to the world of politics Arnold.
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Old 30th August 2003, 10:38 AM   #6
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Ahh the politics of personal destruction. Yes, welcome to the world of politics Arnold. I don't have much sympathy for you. Your past is fair game. I like that this illustrates so nicely the fact that personal lives are grist for those on the left as well as those on the right.

I wonder if those chanting the mantra "politics of personal destruction" during the Clinton saga will chant it now?

To be fair the article appears to be genuine and Arnold gave the information of his own free will.

FWIW, I'm uncomfortable with personal info being a criteria for office. I didn't like it used against Clinton and I don't like it for Arnold. I don't see how to stop it though.
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Old 30th August 2003, 10:45 AM   #7
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A woman enters a bodybuilding room totally naked and Allred infers a rape.
You can take a concept only so far and then it turns back on you.
She does her alleged cause much injustice.
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Old 30th August 2003, 10:50 AM   #8
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I'm actually surprised the (real?) Nazi connection isn't brought up more by the media. I thought it would be jumped upon a long time ago.
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Old 30th August 2003, 10:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by T'ai Chi
I'm actually surprised the (real?) Nazi connection isn't brought up more by the media. I thought it would be jumped upon a long time ago.
He has the blessing of Simon Wiesenthal on that issue, and has tried to atone for the sins of his father.
Other than his father is there another Nazi connection to Arnold (besides the Kennedys)?
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Old 30th August 2003, 10:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by RandFan
Ahh the politics of personal destruction. Yes, welcome to the world of politics Arnold. I don't have much sympathy for you. Your past is fair game. I like that this illustrates so nicely the fact that personal lives are grist for those on the left as well as those on the right.

I wonder if those chanting the mantra "politics of personal destruction" during the Clinton saga will chant it now?

To be fair the article appears to be genuine and Arnold gave the information of his own free will.

FWIW, I'm uncomfortable with personal info being a criteria for office. I didn't like it used against Clinton and I don't like it for Arnold. I don't see how to stop it though.
Very true RandFan.
I actually feel better if a politician has some details in his/her past that can be deemed controversial. No one is perfect, and a few flaws here and there shouldn't matter.
But you are correct, it's all fair game on Arnold now. Unfortunately.
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Old 30th August 2003, 12:15 PM   #11
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Remember this is Gloria Allred who is a notorious headline seeker. For a time she managed to weasel her way into the OJ case, and if you recall she was suing Dodi Fayed when he died for
"breech of contract" for dumping his ex for Di.
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Old 30th August 2003, 12:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Posted by subgenius

A woman enters a bodybuilding room totally naked and Allred infers a rape

Subgenius,

I recommend you reread Schwartzenegger's own account of the incident. He described a lot more detail than "a woman walked into the gym naked."
Quote:
Posted by RandFan

FWIW, I'm uncomfortable with personal info being a criteria for office. I didn't like it used against Clinton and I don't like it for Arnold. I don't see how to stop it though

Actually, I agree with you, RandFan.

However, when someone has absolutely no governing experience, no academic or intellectual credentials...absolutely nothing to recommend him as governor except his "personal qualities"....then surely, they have to become fair game.

He doesn't have anything else....
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Old 30th August 2003, 01:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by subgenius

He has the blessing of Simon Wiesenthal on that issue, and has tried to atone for the sins of his father.
Other than his father is there another Nazi connection to Arnold (besides the Kennedys)?
I think the big question regarding Arnold and Nazis is Kurt Waldheim:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2086742/

Make of it what you will, but it's not his dad or the Kennedy's that's the real question in that regard.
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Old 30th August 2003, 01:05 PM   #14
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I get the feeling Allred would have like the story better if it featured all women having a lesbian orgy.
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Old 30th August 2003, 01:29 PM   #15
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re: Waldheim

Apparently Waldheim belonged to a military group responsible for a massacre. Is it completely clear that he was guilty of war crimes himself? I'm somewhat sympathetic to Schwartzenegger on this one (so far, anyway).

For example....suppose you were friends for many years with a kindly, elderly former soldier whom you loved and valued as a close personal friend.

One day you find out that, 50 years ago, this close friend had served with a military unit that committed atrocities on civilian populations. (You're never really sure how personally involved your friend was in the murders and he denies any wrongdoing).

Would you really publicly denounce your friend for a war crime that he may--or may not--have participated in 50 years earlier?

Or would you take his word for it, believe the best of this person you trust and feel so close to, and --at the very least-- not denounce him as a murdering Nazi to the public?
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Old 30th August 2003, 01:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clancie
However, when someone has absolutely no governing experience, no academic or intellectual credentials...absolutely nothing to recommend him as governor except his "personal qualities"....then surely, they have to become fair game.

He doesn't have anything else....
Hi Clanci,

Thank you for the response.

I have acknowledged that it is fair game. But I don't think his lack of credentials makes personal information any more relevant than anyone else. How does an orgy (something the vast majority of men only dream of) have anything to with being a governor anymore than getting a BJ from an intern (something most men wouldn't turn down BTW)? Of course the fact that 'most' men would be willing to engage in such behavior does not make it ok. However, sex is sex regardless of who or how many. An orgy with one woman is no more relevant than an affair between two men or "non-sex" oral sex (see lewinski).

Rape or sexual harassment would be quite another thing. My problem with this story is that it is simply salacious and appeals only to prurient interests and tells us nothing about Arnold's ability to be a governor.
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Old 30th August 2003, 01:43 PM   #17
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Hi RandFan,

Well, as I say, I kind of agree with you that sexual conduct--if consensual, and legal (i.e. not harrassment, rape, etc)--is irrelevant--or at least, should be irrelevant. (Oh well. Maybe its not too late for AS to run as a Dem? )

The thing is...what can candidates attract votes with? Their proposals (so far he has none). Their experience (he has none). And their character. Republicans often campaign on character issues, morality, etc. and I think that's where AS is headed. This just will make it a bit more difficult.

Personally, what bothered me most about the "Oui" article was his overall attitude toward women ( which doesn't seem to have changed, according to the "Premiere" article and Newsweek and Time's articles about him). That, plus so gleefully cheating his competitor out of the Mr. Universe title, really seem unappealing.

Since Schwartzenegger's "likeability" seems to be his main draw in the campaign--and I don't find his attitude toward women likeable at all--well, guess he's not getting my vote. (But, then, you knew that already, I'm sure. ).

Also, I don't understand how he thought he'd get away with saying, "I don't know what you're talking about" when asked about the incident by reporters on Thursday.

And, RandFan, as a reasonable Republican, what do you think of Ueberroth? It seems to me he should be getting the support that Riordan would have. I can't figure out why he doesn't seem to be getting more attention. Do you ever hear people expressing interest in him?
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Old 30th August 2003, 02:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clancie

Subgenius,

I recommend you reread Schwartzenegger's own account of the incident. He described a lot more detail than "a woman walked into the gym naked."
[/b]
Actually, I agree with you, RandFan.

However, when someone has absolutely no governing experience, no academic or intellectual credentials...absolutely nothing to recommend him as governor except his "personal qualities"....then surely, they have to become fair game.

He doesn't have anything else.... [/b]
I know there was more to the story. This part I thought was relevent to the issue of consent. Not dispositive, relevent.
Also relevent, lack of any complaint filed.

Re: the balance of your post. Agree.
At this point its all a matter of whether the other major Republicans will lay down and let him win. I'm hoping they take a courageous stand, and stand up for principle.
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Old 30th August 2003, 02:56 PM   #19
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Allred

I wonder if Allred has ever been gangbanged? Eewwhh!
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Old 30th August 2003, 03:03 PM   #20
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No, she's never been the victim of a drive-by shooting, if that's what you mean.
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Old 30th August 2003, 03:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clancie

How is it slander (or libel), Tony? [/b]
She is openly accusing the guy of rape without a shred of evidence.
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Old 30th August 2003, 03:08 PM   #22
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He's becoming more Reaganesque all the time:

A day later, he was asked about it at a press conference. "I have no idea what you're talking about," he told reporters. "I have no memory of any of the articles I did 20 or 30 years ago."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...0/MN256272.DTL

He has early Alzheimer's disease, in addition to Waldheimer's disease (where you forget your dad was a Nazi.)

Just kidding Arnold, don't hurt me.

Edited to add:

You know, I think he just might be lying.
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Old 30th August 2003, 08:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony


She is openly accusing the guy of rape without a shred of evidence.
Quote:
It sounds as though it was a sexual assault or rape because he says everyone jumped on the woman involved and took her upstairs. It doesn’t sound consensual, though I don’t know for a certainty it wasn’t.
She does hedge a little bit at the end with the "I don't know for a certainty it wasn't."
So, I wouldn't say she is openly accusing him of rape. She is saying that it might have been "sexual assault or rape."

However, as a lawyer she should know a little better than to say "It doesn't sound consentual." She might want to investigate a little further into the story before drawing a conclusion about whether this was a criminal act or not.

Allred is a grandstander and a genuine "man hater." This is par for the course for her.
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Old 30th August 2003, 09:37 PM   #24
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If we can just get Johnny Cochrane F. Lee Bailey and Alan Dershowitz in here, we might make a dream-team of headline chasers.


Just par for the course. In the Circus of the California Recall, the Candidates are the clowns.

Gloria Allred is just sweeping up after the elephants and looking for peanuts.

HEY anyone else notice she always wears RED!!! ALL RED!!! GET IT!!!


YES, GLORIA, WE GET IT ALREADY! STOP WEARING RED@!!!!!!


*cue circus caliope music*




Arnie is a dope, if you ask me. He should have been cleaning out this closet before throwing his hat in the ring.

How? Do what Dubya did.

Cocaine? Draft-dodging? Drunk-driving, getting into an accident and have daddy seal your records?!!?

ASK JEEBUS FOR FORGIVENESS!!!!

Sing wit me, Arnie: "All the taking dope and group sex, and bj's was before I accepted Jeezus as my savior. I am reborn in the spirit of the LAWD!"
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Old 30th August 2003, 10:51 PM   #25
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I am a feminist.
From the interview there is no evidence of rape.
That's a different issue from what it shows about his character.
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Old 31st August 2003, 01:08 PM   #26
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I thought this thread wsa going to be about how the voters of CA were going to have a vote and if a majority of voters said he should change then Maria got to dump him and the voters picked his new gender.
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Old 31st August 2003, 03:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dancing David
I thought this thread wsa going to be about how the voters of CA were going to have a vote and if a majority of voters said he should change then Maria got to dump him and the voters picked his new gender.
I'd vote for that.
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Old 31st August 2003, 03:41 PM   #28
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Re: Arnold’s Sexual Recall

Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/41/deadline-finke.php ..full article
Gimme a break, this is bordering on slander.
Here's some more stuff about the issues:
Quote:
Arnold Schwarzenegger once told a magazine interviewer about participating in an orgy with other bodybuilders, noting that "everybody jumped on" the woman involved and "took her upstairs where we all got together." The California Republican added that not every muscleman participated in the gang bang, "just the guys who can ****** in front of other guys. Not everybody can do that. Some think that they don't have a big-enough c**k, so they can't get a h**d-on."

Schwarzenegger's lewd talk appeared in the August 1977 issue of Oui, an adult magazine then published by Playboy Enterprises. The five-page Schwarzenegger interview was conducted by author Peter Manso and flagged on the magazine's cover with the headline, "Arnold Schwarzenegger on the Sex Secrets of Bodybuilders."

At the time of the Oui story, Schwarzenegger, then 29, was appearing in "Pumping Iron," a documentary on the bodybuilding circuit. In the Q&A with Manso, today's gubernatorial wannabe spoke about his sex life, drug usage, and belief that men "shouldn't feel like fags just because they want to have nice-looking bodies."


Schwarzenegger even entertained a question about his penis size. When Manso asked, "Is your c**k disproportionate to the rest of you?" Schwarzenegger replied, "Well, that depends on what you mean by disproportionate. The c**k isn't a muscle, so it doesn't grow in relation to the shoulders, say, or the pectorals. You can't make it bigger through exercise, that's for sure." He added that "women have told me they're curious about its size--you know, outgoing chicks who're just trying to be outrageous or horny. I hear all kind of lines, including 'Oh, you're hurting me; you're so big.' But it means nothing. Bodybuilders' c**ks are the same size as everyone else's."

Asked if he felt "exploited" by women who pursued him because of his physique, Schwarzenegger said, "No, I'd feel used only if I didn't get something out of it. If a girl comes on strong and says, 'I really dig your body and I want to ****** the s**t out of you,' I just decide whether or not I like her. If I do take her home, I try to make sure I get just as much out of it as she does. The word exploited therefore wouldn't apply." Schwarzenegger later noted that once outside the gym, he forgets about bodybuilding: "I can look at a chick who's a little out of shape and if she turns me on, I won't hesitate to date her. If she's a good ******, she can weigh 150 pounds, I don't care."

On the practice of abstaining from sex prior to a competition, Schwarzenegger rejected that approach: "I get laid on purpose. I can't sleep before a competition and I'm up all night, anyway, so instead of staring at the ceiling I figure I might as well find somebody and ******." In fact, at the 1972 Mr. Olympia contest, "we had girls backstage giving head, then all of us went out and I won. It didn't bother me at all; in fact, I went out there feeling like King Kong," added Schwarzenegger.

When Manso asked whether he used "dope," Schwarzenegger replied, "Yes, grass and hash--no hard drugs. But the point is that I do what I feel like doing. I'm not on a health kick."
From
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/doc_o_day.html
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Old 31st August 2003, 05:00 PM   #29
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If I lived in CA, he would have my vote!
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Old 31st August 2003, 05:18 PM   #30
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If you're going to post parts of articles that are laced with words on our restricted list, please have the courtesty to asterisk the words. Otherwise, the posted material will be removed.
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Old 31st August 2003, 08:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clancie
Hi RandFan,

Well, as I say, I kind of agree with you that sexual conduct--if consensual, and legal (i.e. not harrassment, rape, etc)--is irrelevant--or at least, should be irrelevant. (Oh well. Maybe its not too late for AS to run as a Dem? )

The thing is...what can candidates attract votes with? Their proposals (so far he has none). Their experience (he has none). And their character. Republicans often campaign on character issues, morality, etc. and I think that's where AS is headed. This just will make it a bit more difficult.

Personally, what bothered me most about the "Oui" article was his overall attitude toward women ( which doesn't seem to have changed, according to the "Premiere" article and Newsweek and Time's articles about him). That, plus so gleefully cheating his competitor out of the Mr. Universe title, really seem unappealing.

Since Schwartzenegger's "likeability" seems to be his main draw in the campaign--and I don't find his attitude toward women likeable at all--well, guess he's not getting my vote. (But, then, you knew that already, I'm sure. ).

Also, I don't understand how he thought he'd get away with saying, "I don't know what you're talking about" when asked about the incident by reporters on Thursday.

And, RandFan, as a reasonable Republican, what do you think of Ueberroth? It seems to me he should be getting the support that Riordan would have. I can't figure out why he doesn't seem to be getting more attention. Do you ever hear people expressing interest in him?
Clancie,

Thank you for the response. I understand now what you meant. Yes, the points you raise are quite valid and are very relevant.

I don't think that Arnold is the best candidate.

My dream candidate is a moderate Republican who will reign in the Democrats. The Republican party has got to learn someday that the State is very unlikely to elect a conservative. I don't know that much about Ueberroth. I haven't even given him a second thought. From the very little that I have heard he probably would make an outstanding governor.

I have come to the decision that I shouldn't just dismiss all of the candidates besides Arnold. It would be wrong if he won simply because he has name recognition which will probably be the case but that is no excuse for me to vote blindly.

Thank you Clancie,
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Old 31st August 2003, 10:20 PM   #32
subgenius
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Quote:
Originally posted by RandFan
Clancie,

Thank you for the response. I understand now what you meant. Yes, the points you raise are quite valid and are very relevant.

I don't think that Arnold is the best candidate.

My dream candidate is a moderate Republican who will reign in the Democrats. The Republican party has got to learn someday that the State is very unlikely to elect a conservative. I don't know that much about Ueberroth. I haven't even given him a second thought. From the very little that I have heard he probably would make an outstanding governor.

I have come to the decision that I shouldn't just dismiss all of the candidates besides Arnold. It would be wrong if he won simply because he has name recognition which will probably be the case but that is no excuse for me to vote blindly.

Thank you Clancie,
As a voter, and open to Republicans, you have a valuable perspective.
What candidate do you prefer (since you say Arnold's not the best candidate), and should that candidate withdraw, as all of them are being urged to do, so Arnold can win?
An apparent "anyone but a Dem strategy."
Principle over politics?
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Old 31st August 2003, 11:07 PM   #33
Luke T.
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Allred is an extreme left winger. She tried to label Gary Condit as a "right wing conservative."

Arnold S. is running as a Republican. Nothing to see here. Keep moving.
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Old 1st September 2003, 10:13 AM   #34
Clancie
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Ueberroth is a social moderate (pro choice, etc) and a fiscal conservative. He lacks government experience, but has quite a bit of administrative know-how. I can't understand why he isn't attracting more attention from Califonria Republicans.

Here's Lou Dobb's interview with him from CNN:

Peter Ueberroth
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Old 1st September 2003, 01:56 PM   #35
Questioninggeller
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pyrrho
If you're going to post parts of articles that are laced with words on our restricted list, please have the courtesty to asterisk the words. Otherwise, the posted material will be removed.
Sorry about that, it slipped my mind.
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Old 1st September 2003, 02:06 PM   #36
Clancie
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Debate coming up among the candidates. Schwartzenegger won't be participating in it, though, because he's "too busy".....
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Old 1st September 2003, 02:11 PM   #37
subgenius
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clancie
Debate coming up among the candidates. Schwartzenegger won't be participating in it, though, because he's "too busy".....
Busy learning how to debate, one supposes.
Good argument against electing him and giving him "on the job training."
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Old 1st September 2003, 06:24 PM   #38
Silicon
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Uberroth would be the best choice to get California's budget mess in shape. And I'm a Democrat saying this.

But we all know, this recall isn't about fixing problems, it's about the circus. It's about using any crazy political tactic possible to get Republicans in power.

Gerrymander Texas, Impeach Clinton, Recall Davis, have the Supreme Court intervene in a State Election matter...


If you don't win at the Ballot box, do it the Republican way!!!

All bets are off now. Dirty tricks are what rule. (perhaps they just figured out how the old Democratic machine used to work).


And that's why Uberroth won't win.

My money's on Davis or Arnie. Davis because he's not below using some pretty dirty tricks himself. Arnie, because he might become "born again" and wash himself clean from all that sex and dope.


ARNOLD, trust me, REPENT FOR YOUR SINS!

Who wants to bet that Arnie will start talking about Jeezus in the coming weeks?

HEY ARNIE!!! BONUS POINTS: Convert to CATHOLOCISM!!! That way, you get MEGA Kennedy points, PLUS you'll pull HALF of Bustamante's votes from him!
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Old 1st September 2003, 09:24 PM   #39
subgenius
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Arnold's Clear Thinking

"I will never take money from the special interests, from Indian gaming, from unions or anything like that," he said.

Mr. Schwarzenegger has reneged on early campaign promises not to accept campaign contributions from anyone. State disclosures show he has collected more than $1 million from companies and individuals with business before the state. "I get donations from businesses and individuals absolutely, because they're powerful interests who control things," he said today.

He declined to explain the difference between special interests and powerful interests.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/02/na...partner=GOOGLE
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Old 1st September 2003, 09:54 PM   #40
Shinytop
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally posted by Silicon
Uberroth would be the best choice to get California's budget mess in shape. And I'm a Democrat saying this.

But we all know, this recall isn't about fixing problems, it's about the circus. It's about using any crazy political tactic possible to get Republicans in power.

Gerrymander Texas, Impeach Clinton, Recall Davis, have the Supreme Court intervene in a State Election matter...


If you don't win at the Ballot box, do it the Republican way!!!

All bets are off now. Dirty tricks are what rule. (perhaps they just figured out how the old Democratic machine used to work).


And that's why Uberroth won't win.

My money's on Davis or Arnie. Davis because he's not below using some pretty dirty tricks himself. Arnie, because he might become "born again" and wash himself clean from all that sex and dope.


ARNOLD, trust me, REPENT FOR YOUR SINS!

Who wants to bet that Arnie will start talking about Jeezus in the coming weeks?

HEY ARNIE!!! BONUS POINTS: Convert to CATHOLOCISM!!! That way, you get MEGA Kennedy points, PLUS you'll pull HALF of Bustamante's votes from him!
Are you for real? The SCOTUS intervened because the state law was not being followed. The law is being followed in California. Nobody made anything up. And Clinton was lilly white and did not deserve to be impeached?

I propose that Silicon be awarded the most whines about the most subjects in one post award by acclamation. Psst, Silicon, that is not a dirty trick.
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