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Tags "A Wilderness of Error" , "Fatal Vision" , errol morris , Jeffrey MacDonald , Joe MacGinniss , murder cases

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Old 30th January 2018, 06:49 PM   #3561
BStrong
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HM isn't even trying anymore - wash rinse repeat and self contradictory posts are so 2017.
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Old 30th January 2018, 10:56 PM   #3562
Henri McPhee
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Kassab got it right at the beginning when he is on record as saying MacDonald should not have been charged. It was a case of opinions and false evidence and disregarding leads and suspects.
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Old 31st January 2018, 02:30 AM   #3563
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
Evidence and Facts:
1. Colette's blood on inmate's pj top BEFORE it was torn - FACT
6. torn surgical gloves with Colette's blood on them in the MB bedding
10. No pj fibers or splinters in the living room where inmate alleged he'd been attacked.
11. No finger prints on the phones.
12. No fingerprints found on the knife inmate claimed to have removed from Colette's chest.
13. The knife inmate claimed to have removed from Colette's chest was never in her chest.
17. None of the "hippies" matched the description as given by inmate.
18. inmate lied about the extent of his injuries (and still does today)
19. murder weapons all came from the apartment
20. murder weapons all found just outside the apartment when MPs searched.
21. inmate's wounds are self-inflicted.......

these are just the first few of the FACTS.......just because you don't LIKE the FACTS henri doesn't mean they should be dismissed out of hand. FACTS inmate lied.....no way in hell he attempted to revive his family, in fact, what he did was wait until he knew they were beyond all help prior to calling for the MPs....
You are making it up. That is disputed by skilled professional advocates and real forensic experts. The fingerprints on the phone and the knife were wiped by the military police. The real serologist Glisson is in disagreement with Laber and Stombaugh about Colette's blood on the pajama top and pajama pocket before it was torn, to supposedly indicate a violent argument. MacDonald's wounds were certainly not self-inflicted and that's a fact. There is no evidence at all that the murder weapons came from the apartment, apart from the lies and perjury at the 1979 trial by Colette's mother and the babysitter. The description given by MacDonald fit very closely to Stoeckley and her murderer pals.

Pajama fibers and blood were found at the exact spot MacDonald said he fell unconscious, but the jury were never informed of that because the information came from the Article 32 proceeding, and Judge 'in bed with the prosecution' Dupree censored it on the spurious reason that it was ten year old information.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:38 AM   #3564
byn63
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
You are making it up. That is disputed by skilled professional advocates and real forensic experts.
No, I am NOT making it up. Name one REAL forensic expert who actually viewed the evidence or even an allegedly SKILLED professional who ACTUALLY viewed the evidence that can dispute the FACTS. You cannot henri. THE FACTS were presented in COURT. The jury CONVICTED and the CONVICTION has stood through all inmate's pathetic machinations to try and get out of the punishment that is way less harsh then he deserved, but the best that could be given under the guidelines at the time he was sentenced. FACT henri, not your opinion for which you are not qualified to render on forensic matters, rule of law, rule of evidence, or even Crime Scene Investigation.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The fingerprints on the phone and the knife were wiped by the military police.
No henri, the MPs did not go around erasing evidence. Even if the grand conspiracy you wish was fact had been in place, they would NOT have erased fingerprints from places that should have them ie the phone since he is the one who called for help. Obviously you missed the most important thing about the Geneva Forge knife henri - INMATE CLAIMED TO HAVE PULLED IT OUT OF COLETTE'S CHEST BUT SHE DID NOT REPEAT DID NOT ONE MORE TIME DID NOT HAVE A WOUND IN HER CHEST MADE BY THE GENEVA FORGE KNIFE. The reason inmate made this statement is because he could not recall if he had wiped fingerprints off the knife and needed an explanation as to why they'd be found on the handle. IT IS CALLED CONSCIOUSNESS OF GUILT.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The real serologist Glisson is in disagreement with Laber and Stombaugh about Colette's blood on the pajama top and pajama pocket before it was torn, to supposedly indicate a violent argument.
Janice Glisson did not testify about the blood on the pajama top or the pajama pocket. Whatever her opinion was/was not in regards to Colette's blood on the pajama top/pocket is irrelevant. HOWEVER, since Terry Laber's testimony went in to the record without the defense trying to disprove it, that is very clear evidence that they COULD NOT do so.....

FACE IT, inmate punched his wife in the face, and she is the one who fought for her life and babies like a Green Beret. inmate (if intruders had existed) would have proven how much of a Green Beret HE WAS NOT. I know Green Berets that had been posted at Fort Bragg during the same era....you want to see what cursing a blue streak actually looks like? Tell them that inmate was a Green Beret.....they will inform you while cursing the blue streak just how much of a Green Beret he was not/is not/never could have been. He is a wuss, a coward, a familial slaughterer, a narcissistic sociopathic murdering bastard.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
MacDonald's wounds were certainly not self-inflicted and that's a fact.
The chest wound was self-inflicted and THAT IS FACT.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There is no evidence at all that the murder weapons came from the apartment, apart from the lies and perjury at the 1979 trial by Colette's mother and the babysitter.
There was no perjury by Mildred or the babysitter. There was perjury by inmate. The claim that they didn't own an ice pick is ********. In 1960-1970's EVERYONE had an ice pick. Those were the days BEFORE frost free freezers (especially in military housing). The murder club was PROVEN REPEAT PROVEN BEYOND ANY DOUBT to have once been the same piece of wood as one of the bed slats in Kimmie's bed. Are you seriously trying to claim that some roving hippies just happened to find a piece of wood that had been sawed off a bed slat in Kimmie's room and left somewhere else? The impression of that murder club could be seen on the MB carpet - the club had been being used to hold up the foot board on one end. inmate grabbed it and bashed his 5 year old daughter's head so hard that he broke her cheek bone and caused it to tear through the skin of her face. FACT FACT FACT

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The description given by MacDonald fit very closely to Stoeckley and her murderer pals.
No, the description DID NOT match Helena - not at all! Also, she didn't have any "murder pals" and none of the people she claimed were involved matched the description either. Jay's NY roomies matched the descriptions but they were proven to be in NY not NC (5 states away)

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Pajama fibers and blood were found at the exact spot MacDonald said he fell unconscious,
inmate CLAIMED he fell unconscious however, that is medically impossible from the rest of his story and no, there were not any blood stains or pj fibers found "exactly" where he claimed to have gone down....there were a couple of fibers a few feet away and there was some blood in the hallway, but that matched Kimmie's blood type not inmate's.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
....but the jury were never informed of that because the information came from the Article 32 proceeding,
********

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
and Judge 'in bed with the prosecution' Dupree censored it on the spurious reason that it was ten year old information.
The Honorable Judge Dupree did no such thing.....IF he had, then there would have been grounds for an appeal. Inmate has never one an appeal and certainly did not use these alleged fibers/blood spots as a basis for an appeal. Making up lies and insulting your betters just makes your man crush look even more guilty. you cannot win an argument using facts so you make up allegations and insults with nothing to support the spurious and vitriolic comments you spew forth. Knock it off!
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Old 1st February 2018, 04:04 PM   #3565
JTF
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Yawn

As BStrong pointed out, the landlord isn't even trying anymore. He knows that this is an open and shut case, but he still derives enjoyment from wearing the black hat in this case discussion. Speaking of black hats, the author of the People Magazine article that pushed for MacDonald being a tortured innocent, was fired this past Summer. Hmmm, I wonder why?

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old 2nd February 2018, 03:06 AM   #3566
Henri McPhee
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I'm sorry to hear that that the author of that People magazine article was fired if that is true. That proves to me that the American media has always been biased against the innocent Jeffrey MacDonald. In the same way CBS has fallen into a trap in saying that nine year old Burke did it in the JonBenet case. If there is any justice in this world CBS, and others, will pay for it.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 05:10 AM   #3567
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Indeed, the author of the biased magazine article and tv show done on inmate, that didn't even begin to fact check what smq told her, was fired. On at least 1 discussion forum she tried to make it seem as if she was let go as part of the Time Warner restructuring, but I have it from several very reliable sources that she was let go because of the article and tv show and the overwhelming proof that she didn't check even the most basic facts of the case. (As well as the overwhelming amount of negative feedback....I myself spent some time pointing out simple facts that she omitted, didn't check, overlooked on the magazine's discussion pages for the articles.......until they were shut down. Less than 1% of the people who posted there believe inmate/smq version of events).
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Old 2nd February 2018, 08:13 PM   #3568
BStrong
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Originally Posted by JTF View Post
As BStrong pointed out, the landlord isn't even trying anymore. He knows that this is an open and shut case, but he still derives enjoyment from wearing the black hat in this case discussion. Speaking of black hats, the author of the People Magazine article that pushed for MacDonald being a tortured innocent, was fired this past Summer. Hmmm, I wonder why?

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Big hat, no cattle.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 08:15 PM   #3569
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I'm sorry to hear that that the author of that People magazine article was fired if that is true. That proves to me that the American media has always been biased against the innocent Jeffrey MacDonald. In the same way CBS has fallen into a trap in saying that nine year old Burke did it in the JonBenet case. If there is any justice in this world CBS, and others, will pay for it.
There is.

Evidence? The murderer that you love the most is right where the scumbag belongs.
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Old 3rd February 2018, 03:32 AM   #3570
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
The Honorable Judge Dupree did no such thing.....IF he had, then there would have been grounds for an appeal. Inmate has never one an appeal and certainly did not use these alleged fibers/blood spots as a basis for an appeal. Making up lies and insulting your betters just makes your man crush look even more guilty. you cannot win an argument using facts so you make up allegations and insults with nothing to support the spurious and vitriolic comments you spew forth. Knock it off!
It was the 'little viper' Murtagh who used the argument in court that anything from the Article 32 could not be presented in court because it was ten years old, and Dupree agreed with him. That hamstrung Segal and I would have thought it was a ground for appeal.

I agree with what MacDonald's military lawyer friend, Malley. said about the case:

http://pu65.org/sites/PU65/Folders/A...ays/malley.pdf

Quote:
IN 2012 Errol Morris, a well-known and respected documentary film maker, wrote A Wilderness of Error—a wonderful, extensively-researched, and perceptive look at all the messiness of “the case.” (I was among those he interviewed.) In his New York Times review (August 29, 2012), David Carr judged that the book “may not exonerate [MacDonald], but it makes a forceful argument that his conviction was riddled with shortcomings.” Morris takes on, and devastates, Joe McGinnis’s bestseller Fatal Vision. Morris also dismisses the anguished-reporter plaint of Janet Malcolm’s The Journalist And The Murderer, which recounts how McGinnis betrayed a friendship to get a (sure-fire bestselling) story, because, she concludes, that’s how journalism works.
Edited by Agatha:  Trimmed to comply with rule 4

Last edited by jsfisher; 10th March 2018 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Fixed edit tags
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Old 3rd February 2018, 03:41 AM   #3571
Henri McPhee
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The Boston Globe has always been sympathetic to MacDonald, perhaps because Harvey Silverglate used to live there, but the rest of the American media has been a biased trial by media and trial by TV which can affect public opinion:

http://www.oppermanreport.com/blog/2...ders-and-trial
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Old 3rd February 2018, 03:00 PM   #3572
AnimalFriendly
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
Indeed, the author of the biased magazine article and tv show done on inmate, that didn't even begin to fact check what smq told her, was fired. On at least 1 discussion forum she tried to make it seem as if she was let go as part of the Time Warner restructuring, but I have it from several very reliable sources that she was let go because of the article and tv show and the overwhelming proof that she didn't check even the most basic facts of the case. (As well as the overwhelming amount of negative feedback....I myself spent some time pointing out simple facts that she omitted, didn't check, overlooked on the magazine's discussion pages for the articles.......until they were shut down. Less than 1% of the people who posted there believe inmate/smq version of events).
I'm pleased to hear that whoever was responsible for that ID TV show was fired. I was stunned to see how ridiculously one-sided it was. I mean, some of the interviews from MacDonald's relatives & former friends were interesting but there was absolutely no presentation of the pro-guilt viewpoint. I understood how current or previously involved government prosecutors, etc. may not have wanted to be interviewed but there had to have been somebody, someone, who would have liked to have gotten the opposing viewpoint across. There was exactly one woman from People magazine, forget her title, who came across as remotely neutral.

One of the dumbest characterizations was of the actor portraying the late Freddy Kassab tearing up that postcard. The guy looked like he was around 75 when Kassab was probably 30+ years younger at the time

Last edited by AnimalFriendly; 3rd February 2018 at 03:02 PM. Reason: error
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Old 4th February 2018, 08:53 AM   #3573
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welcome to the discussion AnimalFriendly! I agree and you are correct there were people who would have and deserved to have the "he is guilty" point of view presented.....for example Bob Stevenson (Colette's brother)....
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Old 4th February 2018, 09:59 AM   #3574
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
inmate CLAIMED he fell unconscious however, that is medically impossible from the rest of his story and no, there were not any blood stains or pj fibers found "exactly" where he claimed to have gone down....there were a couple of fibers a few feet away and there was some blood in the hallway, but that matched Kimmie's blood type not inmate's.
You are making it up as usual. That's bollocks. Reference about the blood where he fell unconscious please? In any case the accuracy of the blood typing was hotly disputed in court. The defense forensic experts were never allowed to examine the blood evidence themselves. It was sloppy forensic work by the Army CID. From Shaw being questioned by Eisman at the Article 32:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.c...pa32-shaw.html

Quote:
Q But he never said the jacket was ripped?
A I don't believe he used that term. I would have to read the transcript of his statement again.
Q If fibers were found in the hallway near the living room, isn't it possible this got there from his falling down there and lying there with his hands entwined in the jacket for a period of time -- we don't know how long -- before he got up to go in the bedroom? Couldn't they have gotten there that way?
A If that happened, yes, they could have.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 4th February 2018 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 4th February 2018, 01:15 PM   #3575
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
snipped Reference about the blood where he fell unconscious please? snipped
Byn63 pointed out that the claim of your man crush of being unconscious is specious.

I agree.

Show me a crime scene with multiple victims where victims that posed little to no threat to an attacker were killed beyond any possible doubt and a victim that would pose a physical threat isn't injured or is only slightly injured my antennae goes up.

Another point to be made wrt this case is that Ft. Bragg, then and now, is a singularly bad environment for finding easy victims. I was stationed there in the mid-late 70's and between the 82nd and the various SF units based there I can't imagine a worse choice of venue for any type of criminal activity.

There was an incident in '79 where a burglar made the mistake of breaking into a house in the wrong area and it was the last mistake he ever made. It's a known fact amongst locals that it's one thing to get into it with troops off-base, but on base there is no win to be had. If you don't belong there and start anything there (depending on seriousness) there's a real chance of not surviving the encounter - and it's not just the MP's someone needs to be worried about. There is no shortage of individuals that are trained and conditioned to be aggressive and they are not shy or retiring when it comes to any sort of encounter with other individuals who don't belong there or are apparently there for less than legit purposes.

The idea that "drug crazed hippies" made it on, off and managed to murder HM's man crush's family in between without being detected and stopped is about as likely as HM arguing a case in front of the Supreme Court and winning.
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Old 5th February 2018, 03:43 AM   #3576
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
The idea that "drug crazed hippies" made it on, off and managed to murder HM's man crush's family in between without being detected and stopped is about as likely as HM arguing a case in front of the Supreme Court and winning.
That's pure speculation. The Stoeckley gang were drug addicted, and drug dealing, rogue soldiers. They were not big soft things. Mazerolle was described as a hard cookie by Detective Beasley. MacDonald fell unconscious all right and to deny that is just an opinion, and not a fact.

There is a fair and just article about the case at:

https://everything2.com/title/Mispla...frey+MacDonald
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Old 5th February 2018, 04:01 AM   #3577
JTF
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Lack Of Trying

The landlord continues to bolster the argument that he isn't putting any real effort into engaging in a salient case discussion. This is evident in his inability to understand that the current burden of proof is on inmate and his advocates. In terms of this thread, it's up to the landlord to provide proof of inmate's hippie home invader story.

For the past 15 years, the landlord has flat-out refused to provide the kind of proof that passes muster in a court of law. Rather than provide CID or FBI lab documentation that sources a specific home invader suspect to the crime scene, the landlord provides posters with blogs, websites, and articles.

All of these source materials are forensically worthless and meaningless in a court of law. The landlord has been challenged time and time again to provide a single lab document that sources a member of the Stoeckley Seven to the crime scene. The reason he has failed to meet this challenge is because no such lab documentation exists.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

Last edited by JTF; 5th February 2018 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 5th February 2018, 04:26 AM   #3578
Henri McPhee
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There is quite a recent article on the internet which proves there were pajama fibers found by Shaw where MacDonald fell unconscious. Shaw testified in a lie at the Article 32 that one fiber was found there. Any MacDonald blood which was there could have been lost in the contamination of the crime scene:

https://www.crimetraveller.org/2017/...e-of-the-case/
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Old 5th February 2018, 10:29 AM   #3579
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
That's pure speculation. The Stoeckley gang were drug addicted, and drug dealing, rogue soldiers. They were not big soft things. Mazerolle was described as a hard cookie by Detective Beasley. MacDonald fell unconscious all right and to deny that is just an opinion, and not a fact.

There is a fair and just article about the case at:

https://everything2.com/title/Mispla...frey+MacDonald
The "Stoeckly gang" only exists in your imagination.

There were drug users in the military at the time of the murders. On base in CONUS they kept a very low profile. If you have any documented evidence that there were active duty troops involved in a criminal conspiracy (beyond simple drug use/possession) w/ Stoeckly now would be a good time to produce it.

Please observe your own assertion wrt opinion and not fact.
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Old 6th February 2018, 12:21 AM   #3580
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Burden Of Proof

HENRIBOY: Again, the burden is on YOU to prove your conspiracy claims and to link a single piece of forensic evidence to a known intruder suspect.

1) Produce a decision by a District Court Judge and/or Appellate Court Judge that concludes that a CID and/or FBI agent committed perjury in this case.

2) Produce a decision by a 4th Circuit Court Judge and/or United States Supreme Court Judge that concludes that Judge Dupree and/or Judge Fox did not provide inmate with a fair trial and/or evidentiary hearing.

3) Produce a lab document that concludes that a fiber was a microscopic match and/or matched the chemical composition of clothing worn by a known intruder suspect.

4) Produce a lab document that concludes that a hair was a microscopic match and/or matched the DNA profile of a known intruder suspect.

5) Produce a lab document that concludes that a fingerprint, palmprint, or footprint matched a print exemplar from a known intruder suspect.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

Last edited by JTF; 6th February 2018 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 6th February 2018, 03:18 AM   #3581
Henri McPhee
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JTF is saying there is no forensic evidence of intruders, which is not true anyway. In some of these murder cases there are no forensics at all. The discovery of DNA has been useful in that regard.

The 4th Circuit judges should read this article which proves MacDonald fell unconscious, with hard documentary evidence, whatever Byn and B. Strong say about the matter of him supposedly never being unconscious:

https://www.crimetraveller.org/2017/...e-of-the-case/

Quote:
The defense had no explanation to give to the jurors. But again, found in documents released through the Freedom of Information Act, years after the trial, a handwritten report made by CID agent Robert Shaw early on the murder morning of February 17, 1970 contradicts this lack of finding. He had written, "in the west entrance to the hallway on the floor- near the south wall, just a pile laying there." By the time the CID laboratory technicians got around to processing the hallway and collecting the debris, three days had passed. There were now, no blue pajama fibers on the floor, where Shaw had earlier seen them.........

Regardless, Shaw's handwritten note remains a testament to the existence of a pile of blue pajama threads, left where MacDonald said he had lain unconscious (a pile in the exact spot).
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Old 6th February 2018, 08:42 AM   #3582
desmirelle
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I hate to break it to the only person supporting Family Annihilator Macdonald that it is MEDICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for Macmurderer to retain a memory of the events immediately preceding the moment of unconsciousness due to the way human short term memory is processed, formed, and stored. (Short term memory will go to long term memory after it has been stored.) Medical fact. For all humans. (Except for those who cannot form new memories due to the fact that they can no longer form short term memories.)
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Old 6th February 2018, 08:45 AM   #3583
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
JTF is saying there is no forensic evidence of intruders, which is not true anyway. In some of these murder cases there are no forensics at all. The discovery of DNA has been useful in that regard.

The 4th Circuit judges should read this article which proves MacDonald fell unconscious, with hard documentary evidence, whatever Byn and B. Strong say about the matter of him supposedly never being unconscious:

https://www.crimetraveller.org/2017/...e-of-the-case/
Blue fibers prove unconsciousness?

That's an interesting pov. Maybe you should review what the eating utensils have to say about what they witnessed.

Start with the spoons. They seem to stick together.
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Old 6th February 2018, 12:21 PM   #3584
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You Can Run, But You Can't Hide

HENRIBOY: For the past 15 years, you've refused to accept the challenge and the reason for your cowardice is crystal clear. There is simply no court decision and/or lab document that proves the existence of a conspiracy and/or sources a SPECIFIC hippie home invader to the crime scene.

Again, please provide this thread with the following...

1) A decision by a District Court Judge and/or Appellate Court Judge that concludes that a CID and/or FBI agent committed perjury in this case.

2) A decision by a 4th Circuit Court Judge and/or United States Supreme Court Judge that concludes that Judge Dupree and/or Judge Fox did not provide inmate with a fair trial and/or evidentiary hearing.

3) A lab document that concludes that a fiber was a microscopic match and/or matched the chemical composition of clothing worn by a known intruder suspect.

4) A lab document that concludes that a hair was a microscopic match and/or matched the DNA profile of a known intruder suspect.

5) A lab document that concludes that a fingerprint, palmprint, or footprint matched a print exemplar from a known intruder suspect.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

Last edited by JTF; 6th February 2018 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:50 AM   #3585
Henri McPhee
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There are lab documents which indicate that intruders were involved. For a start there were black wool fibers with no known source around Colette's mouth and biceps, and on the wooden club murder weapon. There was the blonde synthetic hair-like fibers with no known source, and the surgical glove fragment which did not come from a MacDonald glove, and a match found when the MacDonalds did not smoke, and the candle wax which did not come from MacDonald candles. The trouble is none of this forensic evidence came with a name tag attached to it.

This is a quote from a Google forum in 1998 about blood where he fell unconscious. The blood and fibers were conveniently wiped away by the so-called Army CID forensic experts:

Quote:
Dr. MacDonald was destroyed on the stand by a prosecutor who kept asking why there was no blood where he said he was beaten and stabbed unconscious.
There was, in fact, blood found there. Blood had been found in the hallway
and even a pile of fibers were seen before it was destroyed by investigators
and gawkers.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 7th February 2018 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 11:41 AM   #3586
desmirelle
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Self-deleted

Last edited by desmirelle; 7th February 2018 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 12:40 PM   #3587
JTF
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The Test Of Time

HENRIBOY: You're a prime example of a coward's ability to talk the talk, but not walk the walk. Here are concrete examples of walking the walk.

Not a single fiber was microscopically sourced to a known intruder suspect, but at least 65 fibers were sourced to inmate's torn pajama top. Notice how I give inmate the benefit of the doubt on fibers that could have been deposited from the crotch of his pajama bottoms? Fibers sourced to his torn pajama top were found on the club, on top of all three beds, under Kristen's fingernail, wrapped around Colette's bloody head hair, on bedding used to transport Colette/Kimmie back to their bedrooms, under Colette's body, and even on inmate's bathrobe.

Not a single hair matched the DNA profile of a known intruder suspect, but inmate's DNA profile matched the profile of hairs found on Kristen's bed, on bedding used to transport Colette/Kimmie back to their bedrooms, and in the palm of Colette's left hand. The latter hair is significant for it was torn, bloody, and located next to a bloody splinter from the club. Prior to DNA testing on the hair, inmate's advocates argued that the source of the hair was the wielder of the club.

This is just a portion of the evidence that led to inmate's conviction and all of the inculpatory evidence in this case has stood the test of time. The same cannot be said for evidentiary arguments put forth by inmate's advocates.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

Last edited by JTF; 7th February 2018 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 07:26 PM   #3588
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There are lab documents which indicate that intruders were involved. For a start there were black wool fibers with no known source around Colette's mouth and biceps, and on the wooden club murder weapon. There was the blonde synthetic hair-like fibers with no known source, and the surgical glove fragment which did not come from a MacDonald glove, and a match found when the MacDonalds did not smoke, and the candle wax which did not come from MacDonald candles. The trouble is none of this forensic evidence came with a name tag attached to it.

This is a quote from a Google forum in 1998 about blood where he fell unconscious. The blood and fibers were conveniently wiped away by the so-called Army CID forensic experts:
And you still are confronted with the fact that other than your beautiful boy's word, there is no evidence that he actually lost consciousness.

He's been proven a liar often enough for me to determine that his credibility is worthless.
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Old 8th February 2018, 02:57 AM   #3589
Henri McPhee
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I didn't give the source for that MacDonald blood quote about the Google groups MacDonald forum in 1998 which is at :

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...k/5Y5Mx-LNEOoJ

Fred Bost wrote publicly that there were no pajama fibers on the wooden club murder weapon. There is hard documentary evidence from the FBI expert examiner Frier to back that up. I don't know why JTF keeps spewing his fabricated evidence and sloppy forensic theories. It was bad police work.

MacDonald kept lapsing into unconsciousness when he was first found by the military police. He was not pretending it. It's just a silly opinion, and not evidence, to suggest that he was never unconscious during the MacDonald murders.
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Old 8th February 2018, 03:50 AM   #3590
JTF
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Still Waiting

HENRIBOY: Your ongoing failure to walk the walk demonstrates your inability to effectively advocate for convicted murderer Jeffrey MacDonald. As I mentioned in a prior post, it also demonstrates your cognitive cowardice for if inmate was truly innocent, there would be ample court/lab documentation to back that claim.

Even Fred Bost was unable to come up with the goods, so he was forced to rely on supposition, half-truths, and debunked evidentiary arguments. You have certainly adhered to Bost's version of an alternate reality, but the song remains the same. The lyrics of that song focus on a mass murder spending his remaining days in a Maryland correctional facility.

Again, the burden is on YOU to provide proof of inmate's innocence. For the past 15 years, you have failed in spectacular fashion to provide this proof, but the details of the challenge have not changed.

1) Produce a decision by a District Court Judge and/or Appellate Court Judge that concludes that a CID and/or FBI agent committed perjury in this case.

2) Produce a decision by a 4th Circuit Court Judge and/or United States Supreme Court Judge that concludes that Judge Dupree and/or Judge Fox did not provide inmate with a fair trial and/or evidentiary hearing.

3) Produce a lab document that concludes that a fiber was a microscopic match and/or matched the chemical composition of clothing worn by a known intruder suspect.

4) Produce a lab document that concludes that a hair was a microscopic match and/or matched the DNA profile of a known intruder suspect.

5) Produce a lab document that concludes that a fingerprint, palmprint, or footprint matched a print exemplar from a known intruder suspect.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

Last edited by JTF; 8th February 2018 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 8th February 2018, 07:03 AM   #3591
byn63
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https://www.stlmag.com/news/call-it-murder/

The article above talks about Dr. Mary Case. I have mentioned her before especially to henri.....she has testified at criminal trials, she has an impressive CV, and is an expert beyond all doubts. In one True Crime book I read, Dr. Case testified that "it is medically impossibly to lose consciousness AND retain memory of the blow that caused that loss". (+this article discusses the case "Paula Sims" case.) She also pointed out, that in a situation where one is rendered unconscious the memory leading up to and for a time after regaining consciousness will be affected. This is a medical fact.

Personally, I think henri should either provide us with his curricula vitae showing that he is as well trained and expert as Dr. Case or he should shut up about inmate's alleged loss of consciousness which salient beings know did not occur.

Last edited by byn63; 8th February 2018 at 07:12 AM. Reason: additional comment
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Old 8th February 2018, 09:03 AM   #3592
Henri McPhee
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I agree with Byn that medical opinion says that you don't remember much about an incident if you are unconscious for more than ten minutes. To my mind it's a bit like having a bad fall where you fall flat on your face, or if you are involved in a bad car crash, or if you are knocked out in a boxing ring. You remember bits and pieces, and the background to an incident, but maybe not the exact details.

There is more background to the MacDonald case which makes sense to me at this website. The MacDonald case was a gross miscarriage of justice:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...r-errol-morris

Quote:
Morris first got interested in the MacDonald story in the 1980s, and has been dipping in and out of the details since the 1990s. In trying to explain what brought him back to the case again and again, he writes: "It wasn't the brutality of the murders. I was afraid of something even more chilling – that MacDonald was innocent. That he had been made to witness the savage deaths of his family and then was wrongfully convicted for their murders. I wondered if people needed him to be guilty because the alternative was too horrible to contemplate."

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 8th February 2018 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 8th February 2018, 09:36 AM   #3593
desmirelle
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All that snippet proves is that Morris did little research before opening his mouth and putting his foot in it. In order for Macdonald to have "witnessed" the savage murders, he had to be in the rooms. (Well, he was, but that's because he was the savage murderer.) According to what Macdonald has said about the murders, [b]he[b] (wuss that he was) was unconscious in the hallway and woke up after everything happened.

Do you have any sources with FACTS?
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Old 8th February 2018, 10:57 AM   #3594
byn63
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Leave it to henri to not grasp the importance of what Dr. Case said....the FACT is that HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REMEMBER THE BLOW THAT CAUSED THE LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS" not that he'd remember parts of it. In fact, anyone who carefully reads the article sees that she says that a true loss of consciousness will result in some memory lapses leading up to the trauma. Dr. Mary Case is not just ANY medical professional she is board certified in both Neuro and Forensic Pathology thus making her a leading expert on head trauma which we all know inmate did not have head trauma and he did not lose consciousness and there were no hippies.

henri if you want to debate Dr. Mary Case's conclusions then provide the curricula vitae that shows you are qualified; if you CANNOT provide such a curricula vitae then shut up because you are in no way qualified to argue against her conclusions.

Errol Morris IS NOT EITHER A NEURO-PATHOLOGIST OR FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST so whatever he may or may not have stated in regards to inmate's alleged loss of consciousness is immaterial/irrelevant.
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Old 8th February 2018, 07:28 PM   #3595
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post

snipped

MacDonald kept lapsing into unconsciousness when he was first found by the military police. He was not pretending it. It's just a silly opinion, and not evidence, to suggest that he was never unconscious during the MacDonald murders.
Over the years otj, the only individuals that I had first hand experience with that "kept lapsing into unconsciousness" were alcohol or drug OD's - I dealt with many situations where somebody suffered a head injury from violence or accident and when they went out, they went out. If they were lucky enough to come back that was great, but this "in and out" stuff with head injuries is jive.

Popular fiction always gets it wrong about violence and physical injury. Your man crush might have believed if he "kept lapsing into unconsciousness" he was portraying reality, but while he may be able to fool the gullible and willing, people who have experienced head injuries first hand recognize Shakespeare when they encounter it.

BTW, what level of head injury did your man crush receive? Now I remember! a bruise and a contusion! Luckily, there's a bunch of actual scientific research that has gone into the effects of trauma to the brain - here's a link to a great resource, The Brain Injury Alliance of Utah:

https://biau.org/types-and-levels-of-brain-injury/

In the above section they go into great detail about types of injury and the different levels of trauma that causes each level of injury as well as the symptoms of traumatic brain injury.

Nowhere in their research do they describe "lapsing into unconsciousness" as a symptom of TBI- the victim goes out for a period of time depending on injury level then they regain consciousness
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Old 9th February 2018, 02:51 AM   #3596
Henri McPhee
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This is part of the testimony of military policeman Tevere on oath at the Article 32 proceedings in 1970 with regard to this unconscious matter. It's a fact:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.c...32-tevere.html

Quote:
Q What did you do when you went into the house?
A I entered the house with my pistol drawn and proceeded up to Captain MacDonald who appeared to have been unconscious, in a state of semi-consciousness.
Q Now what were the lighting conditions in that bedroom?
A In the bedroom there was a small light on. I didn't need my flashlight.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 9th February 2018 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 9th February 2018, 06:17 AM   #3597
desmirelle
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What I noticed about your quote was the preface "appeared to have been" - indicating that no unconsciousness was observed in fact by the MP.

Last edited by desmirelle; 9th February 2018 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 9th February 2018, 06:22 AM   #3598
desmirelle
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What I noticed about your quote was the preface "appeared to have been" - indicating that "unconsciousness" was not observed by the MP.
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Old 9th February 2018, 06:33 AM   #3599
byn63
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Originally Posted by desmirelle View Post
What I noticed about your quote was the preface "appeared to have been" - indicating that no unconsciousness was observed in fact by the MP.
EXACTLY! The MPs were not trained in Emergency Medical Procedures, they were not Doctors or Nurses, and were not trained in what happens with brain injury. IN FACT, in 1970, very little was known about traumatic brain injury. IN recent years studies have been conducted that show the results of concussion, including multiple concussions, shaken baby syndrome, blunt force trauma induced concussion etc. Not only did inmate lie about what happened (since he could not have remembered the detail he described nor could he have seen what he claimed to have seen due to the lighting) he showed that he was faking it which I call consciousness of guilt. I mean seriously, he expects salient persons to believe he was knocked out, then regained consciousness, then blacks out on top of his dead wife, AND THEN regains consciousness just as the MPs walk in? Seriously?
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Old 9th February 2018, 07:56 AM   #3600
Henri McPhee
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This is from this legal document about Jeff MacDonald being unconscious. I suppose the TT numbers are from the trial transcript:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.c...ning-brief.pdf

Quote:
MacDonald testified that the woman intruder had blond hair, was wearing a
floppy hat, appeared to be carrying a candle, and was with several men. (TT 6588
92). At some point during the struggle, MacDonald was knocked unconscious.
Upon coming to, MacDonald testified in detail to finding his family members
bloodied and dead, his efforts to revive them, and his phone call for help. (TT
6595-6605). He was unconscious when help finally arrived.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 9th February 2018 at 07:58 AM.
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