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Old 9th July 2019, 11:43 AM   #721
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I doubt it. My suspicion is that the dynamic duo is just repeating talking points out of the latest edition of the Hasbara handbook while hoping not to get called out over it.
Scratch a commie, find an antisemite.
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Old 9th July 2019, 11:44 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Scratch a commie, find an antisemite.
You find those under quite a few ideologies, and you needn't scratch very hard.
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Old 9th July 2019, 12:22 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Quite possibly, but the fact that that single passage is all I could find that even tangentially refers to this issue sort of points out how weak this talking point really is.

True, and you explained well why they think they can get away with it:

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
The essential problem here is that the GOPers have decided that this deal should have required a hard commitment by Iran to stop supporting terrorism in addition to everything else it was intended to do, and have decided to just pretend that it did, in fact, do that. They're simply uncomfortable with the notion of a piecemeal advancement of relations with Iran, and would rather torpedo these advancements entirely instead of doing the real work needed to engage with Iran.
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Old 9th July 2019, 12:23 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Scratch a commie, find an antisemite.

Wow, that came totally unpredictably. I'm shocked!
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Old 10th July 2019, 08:00 AM   #725
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Trump Tweets

Iran has long been secretly “enriching,” in total violation of the terrible 150 Billion Dollar deal made by John Kerry and the Obama Administration. Remember, that deal was to expire in a short number of years. Sanctions will soon be increased, substantially!
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Old 10th July 2019, 03:17 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Iran has long been secretly “enriching,” in total violation of the terrible 150 Billion Dollar deal made by John Kerry and the Obama Administration. Remember, that deal was to expire in a short number of years. Sanctions will soon be increased, substantially!
Jerusalem Post's reaction to this tweet (with Reuters):
Quote:
While Iran was found to have had covert enrichment sites long before the nuclear accord, the 2015 deal imposed the most intrusive nuclear supervision on Iran of any country, and there has been no serious suggestion Iran is secretly enriching now in a way that would hint at an effort to develop a nuclear weapon.
...
Trump's allegation about covert enrichment was met with derision by diplomats who follow the IAEA. "That tweet kills me," one diplomat at the meeting said in a sign of exasperation.
(link: https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/...ntially-595227)
Actually, in this conflict, perhaps the only person who might need to be "sanctioned" is Trump himself. Being the president of a powerful country doesn't give license to permanently behave like an imbecile.
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Old 10th July 2019, 07:36 PM   #727
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And in today's "Oh Jesus Christ!" Moment, I've just found out about this piece of brilliance:

Quote:
The Iranian regime took action today to increase its uranium enrichment. It was a mistake under the Iran nuclear deal to allow Iran to enrich uranium at any level. There is little doubt that even before the deal’s existence, Iran was violating its terms.
Who said it? Go on, guess.






Those Persian Bastards, violating a deal before it even existed!
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Old 10th July 2019, 07:46 PM   #728
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And in today's "Oh Jesus Christ!" Moment, I've just found out about this piece of brilliance:



Who said it? Go on, guess.






Those Persian Bastards, violating a deal before it even existed!
This is one of the most illogical sentences I’ve ever read but to be expected from this White House.
There is little doubt that even before the deal’s existence, Iran was violating its terms.
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Old 12th July 2019, 11:10 AM   #729
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Hey, deals should be enforceable retroactively!
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Old 13th July 2019, 04:05 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You're telling me what the deal claims. I'm asking how the claim is enforced.

Also, there's a lot more to building a nuclear arsenal than just having the uranium.

How does the deal curb that stuff? How does it stop the Iranians from putting it all together? How does it stop the Iranians from ramping up enrichment whenever they want?

Remember, this deal was supposed to curb Iranian support for terrorism, which it completely failed to do. Why should we have faith in any of its other clauses?
Iranian support for proxy wars would be more accurate. It's a common way of expanding your regional influence these days.
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Old 18th July 2019, 07:40 PM   #731
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The orange one now brags about having shot down an Iranian drone.
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Old 18th July 2019, 08:38 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
The orange one now brags about having shot down an Iranian drone.
I wonder if someone clever in Tehran presented the drone on a platter to be shot down to even the score.
You know, like you let your brother punch you when you punched him a bit too hard before.
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Old 18th July 2019, 09:35 PM   #733
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Iranian support for proxy wars would be more accurate. It's a common way of expanding your regional influence these days.
Perfected by the US since 1947...
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Old 18th July 2019, 09:46 PM   #734
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Before that latest orange claim happened a tanker transporting oil from one UAE port to another disappeared on the 14th. US was whining under the media radar blaming Iran. Wednesday Iran announced that it seized the ship because the cargo was "smuggled".
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:05 AM   #735
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I thought they were claiming it was having engine difficulties and they went aboard to assist?
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:15 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I thought they were claiming it was having engine difficulties and they went aboard to assist?

Nobody can get by with just one version of a story anymore.

Two are only sufficient if they are mutually contradictory.
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Old 19th July 2019, 04:52 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I thought they were claiming it was having engine difficulties and they went aboard to assist?

How come? Sniffed BBC again?
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Old 19th July 2019, 06:20 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I thought they were claiming it was having engine difficulties and they went aboard to assist?
They went to assist it, went on board and then (presumably) found it was being naughty.

Sounds like a small ship, so it's not all that far fetched.
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Old 19th July 2019, 07:06 AM   #739
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Turns out we're all confused - It weren't two stories, but two ships:

Oil tanker assisted
Smaller smuggling boat seized
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Old 19th July 2019, 10:29 AM   #740
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Perfected by the US since 1947...
RV bux nmxb mnm
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Old 19th July 2019, 11:45 AM   #741
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Now these Iranian pirates have seized a Swedish owned, but British flagged, tanker.

Help us America! Save us!
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Old 19th July 2019, 11:59 AM   #742
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The Iranians have released footage from the surveillance drone allegedly proving that it wasn't shot down.

Originally Posted by FARS News
[...] The footage released by the IRGC has been recorded by the drone during a surveillance mission over the Strait of Hormuz over the USS Boxer.

IRGC Navy drones routinely fly over the strategic waterway of the Strait of Hormuz to ensure its security for free international maritime transportation.

The footage shows the trafficking of vessels through the Strait of Hurmuz before the arrival of the American warship and continues to cover the area after the US vessel moves forward and then keeps surveilling the USS Boxer.

The IRGC issued a statement after releasing the video on Friday evening, saying that the drone has been watching the USS Boxer and five other US warships accompanying it for three hours, from the time when they had not made an entry into the Strait of Hormuz to the time when exited the waterway.

"During this period, out drone bases have not observed and recorded any unconventional and threatening action by the US terrorist forces on the stated warship," the IRGC statement reiterated.

"Hence, it is more evident and proved now that the claim raised by the US officials about the shooting down of an Iranian drone in the Strait of Hormuz without any (supportive) evidence has been baseless and a lie," it added. [...]

The video is embedded in a Flash container (way to prove technical superiority ). If you're like me and don't allow that kind of crappy software on your computer, here is the direct link to the video I located in the source code (4.5 Mb .mp4). Can't say it proves anything, but interesting that they felt like releasing it.
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Old 19th July 2019, 12:00 PM   #743
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Help us America! Save us!

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Old 19th July 2019, 12:57 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I thought they were claiming it was having engine difficulties and they went aboard to assist?
The Iran government and Trump are alike in one thing: you can't believe anything they say.
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Old 19th July 2019, 12:59 PM   #745
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Like I said before, it you want to know where I get off the Anti Trump Train (and I despise TRump) it's what it starts supporting the Iranian Government and trying to excuse their every action.
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Old 19th July 2019, 01:44 PM   #746
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MoA is on the case of the latest seizure:

Originally Posted by b
[...] The dimwits in London who listened to John Bolton and ordered to pirate the Iranian ship are now in deep trouble. It was an utterly stupid move. There is little they can do now except to let the 'Grace 1' go. But who in Britain can now give the order? Theresa May is about gone and Boris Johnson is still busy collecting votes to become the next prime minister.

Added: The IRGC now confirmed that it took the ship:
The IRGC Navy announced in statement that British oil tanker “Stena Impero” has been captured on Friday evening because of violating the international maritime regulations when crossing the Strait of Hormuz.

The UK oil tanker has been seized by the IRGC Navy forces in the first naval zone at the request of the Ports and Maritime Organization of Iran at the province of Hormozgan, a statement said.

The British vessel has been taken to the port and delivered to the Ports and Maritime Organization for the legal and judicial processes, it added.
[...]
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:51 PM   #747
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There's a duplicate thread. I'm sure it will be merged eventually.

Iran denies the US shot down an Iranian drone.

Bizarre development, Iran denies the US shot down its drone.

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Old 19th July 2019, 04:23 PM   #748
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Apparently it the Revolutionary Guards who seized the UK tanker..a group that is notorious for taking action on it's own, without bothering to consult with the actual government in Tehran.
There are a law unto themselves...think of the Japanese Army in Manchuria and China in the 1930's and you have a good comparasion.
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Old 19th July 2019, 04:27 PM   #749
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Second UK tanker seized.
Some theorized the first was another unauthorized rogue operation by the Revolutionary Guards who are known for that (think the Japanese Army In Manchuria in the 1930's) but a second seizure makes that scenario less likely.
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Old 19th July 2019, 04:50 PM   #750
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I thought the UK had a destroyer in the straits, steaming around delivering spankings to upstart Iranian boarding parties?
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Old 19th July 2019, 05:40 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I thought the UK had a destroyer in the straits, steaming around delivering spankings to upstart Iranian boarding parties?
Well it can't be everywhere all of time now can it
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Old 20th July 2019, 02:51 AM   #752
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I thought the UK had a destroyer in the straits, steaming around delivering spankings to upstart Iranian boarding parties?
HMS Montrose at sea in the Gulf.
HMS Duncan in transit - probably at least a week until she arrives to relieve HMS Montrose (due maintenance period)
HMS Kent in Portsmouth preparing to make 3 week journey to Gulf
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Old 20th July 2019, 08:58 AM   #753
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Quote:
Lord West, a former head of the Royal Navy, said the UK should not “pretend we’re surprised” by the Stena Impero incident. He told Sky News: “What I find extraordinary is that we knew that the Iranians would try something like this a few days ago.

“I’m absolutely amazed that we haven’t implemented some sort of control of red ensign shipping within the region whereby no tanker would go in to what is clearly a dangerous zone without an escort, and I find it bizarre that we seem to have ships doing exactly that.”

West said the British navy had “too few ships” and would find it “extremely difficult” to provide escorts to merchant vessels.

Between 15 and 30 British-flagged tankers pass through the strait every day. In the region there are seven Royal Navy vessels, accompanied by Royal Marines, for force protection in the Gulf. The British presence includes one Type 23 frigate, HMS Montrose, due to be joined and then replaced by one Type 45, HMS Duncan.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...iranian-tanker

Britain really should've thought before it seized that Iranian tanker near Gibraltar.
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Old 20th July 2019, 10:46 AM   #754
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Hmm. If the Iranian story about the behaviour of the British ship ("hit and run") is true, that would be quite a remarkable coincident.

Originally Posted by FARS News
[...] Meantime, sources told FNA that the British ship had switched off its tracking systems in violation of maritime rules and regulations and was making an entry from the exit point of the Strait of Hormuz in the South, disregarding the established procedures that require all entries be made through the Northern pass.

Earlier on Saturday, Director General of the Ports and Maritime Organization's office of Hormuzgan province Allah Morad Afifipour said that the British oil tanker, 'Stena Impero', which was seized by the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) in the Persian Gulf was seized because it ignored calls from a fishing boat after an accident in the waterway.

"The British oil tanker, Stena Impero, had an accident with a fishing boat on its way and according to the law, the reason and other issues related to the accident should be studied," Afifipour told FNA.

He added that sailors on the damaged fishing boat had contacted the British vessel, but the tanker had ignored their calls.

"When the British vessel did not respond to the fishing vessel, they informed Ports and Maritime Organization's office of Hormuzgan province according to the legal procedures," Afifipour said, adding that his office had requested the Judiciary and the IRGC to stop the British tanker.

Also, the UK owned tanker, MV Mesdar, operating under Liberian flag was stopped by Iran's naval patrols in the Strait of Hormuz on Friday evening after it started oil leaks in the waterway.

The ship was sent back to the international waters to continue its voyage after a short time and after it was warned to show full respect for environmental regulations and harmless navigation. [...]
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Old 20th July 2019, 10:58 AM   #755
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Video of the capture released:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 22nd July 2019, 09:33 AM   #756
Childlike Empress
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Iran insists that Trump should show evidence of the allegedly downed drone.

Originally Posted by FARS News
"Our claim is that no Iranian drone has been targeted. Anyone who claims otherwise, should prove it," [government spokesperson] Rabiyee told reporters in a press conference in Tehran on Monday.

"The measures regarding our drones' patrolling missions are aimed at safeguarding our security," he added.

In relevant remarks on Sunday, Commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps Aerospace Force Brigadier General Amir Ali Hajizadeh said that Trump lied about the American warship's downing of an Iranian drone.

“The lie told by Trump was so big that we believed it at first that they had been able to shoot down one of our drones,” Hajizadeh said after a meeting with Iranian lawmakers at the Iranian parliament on Sunday.

“After Trump's allegation about downing an Iranian drone, we checked with various (Iranian military) units several times…because we could not believe that he would tell such a big lie to the media himself,” the IRGC commander added.

“This is why we waited a few hours before rejecting the news and finally noticed that our unmanned aerial vehicle had monitored the activity of the (American) strike group before reaching the Strait of Hormuz and after getting out of it,” General Hajizadeh said. [...]

Meanwhile Trump is busy denying that Iran has busted a CIA spy ring (which is old news, they just presented new evidence) and doesn't forget to repeat his "big lie" about the drone (or is he denying that Iran shot down the US drone, which was admitted by his minions - or both?):

Originally Posted by @realDonaldTrump
The Report of Iran capturing CIA spies is totally false. Zero truth. Just more lies and propaganda (like their shot down drone) put out by a Religious Regime that is Badly Failing and has no idea what to do. Their Economy is dead, and will get much worse. Iran is a total mess!
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Last edited by Childlike Empress; 22nd July 2019 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 10:08 AM   #757
Allen773
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Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.













Oh who am I kidding.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 11:51 AM   #758
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Like I said before, it you want to know where I get off the Anti Trump Train (and I despise TRump) it's what it starts supporting the Iranian Government and trying to excuse their every action.
The problem of course being when the Iranian government is the responsible adults with regard to where we are now makes things a bit complex. Of course they where fools to trust america, our habit of tearing up treaties with the natives should have shown them you just can't trust the US to honor any such treaties.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 12:12 PM   #759
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Quote:
The British foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has proposed a European-led maritime protection force in the Gulf – spurning separate American plans for a US-led force to protect commercial shipping from Iranian interference.

Speaking to MPs, Hunt said the maritime security force would protect crew and cargo from what he described as “wholly illegal acts of state piracy by Iran”.

The proposal has parallels with existing international maritime forces operating in the Gulf as well as EU anti-piracy force operating off the east coast of Africa. However, these missions are protecting shipping largely from non-state actors.

Hunt stressed the UK did not want to join the American campaign of maximum economic pressure since the UK, unlike the US, remained supporters of the Iran nuclear deal signed in 2015. The UK Foreign Office clearly fears a US-led force operating through the strait of Hormuz would be seen as escalatory by Iran and possibly increase the chances of further flashpoints.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...r-irans-piracy

Note here that the UK has been among the more vocal and influential parties arguing against collective EU defense and security agreements, repeatedly maintaining that such efforts were wasteful and merely duplicated the kind of work that was done in NATO or other similar multilateral organisations.

Now it turns out that working towards a common defense and security solutions without involving the Americans might not have been such a bad idea after all, since in this case America's policy is contrary to the British one. Combine this with brexit and it seems quite questionable whether there's any mood among the other major European states for any new substantial security arrangements with the UK, even in principle.

In the end the only major power that has the navy assets available to aid Britain in defending its merchant fleet from Iran, and is almost certainly willing to do so, is the US. Of course this would require that the UK wholeheartedly adopted the Americans line on Iran.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 22nd July 2019 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 12:50 PM   #760
Captain_Swoop
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U.S. Secretary of State Pompeo, on British tanker incident in Iran, says it falls to the United Kingdom to take care of their ships - Fox News via @Reuters

So much for the 'Special Relationship'
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