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Old 9th July 2019, 09:31 PM   #4201
Gaetan
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
People will do exactly as you do Gaetan. They will work and use money to get food and medicine.
What happened if they have no work?
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Old 10th July 2019, 05:16 AM   #4202
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What happened if they have no work?
What happens when there is no money and people revert to savagery and barbaric hunter/gatherer tribes to defend themselves against the warlords who hoard resources?
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Old 11th July 2019, 05:07 PM   #4203
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What happened if they have no work?
Then they need to seek work. Jobs don't fall in your lap.
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Old 11th July 2019, 08:12 PM   #4204
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Then they need to seek work. Jobs don't fall in your lap.
Ask the refugee they seek work in US as they don't have work in their countries.
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:55 AM   #4205
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ask the refugee they seek work in US as they don't have work in their countries.
So they come to the US illegally and get free stuff which the rest of the US has to pay for.
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Old 12th July 2019, 05:38 AM   #4206
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ask the refugee they seek work in US as they don't have work in their countries.
That's because the US has money and they don't in their home country.

Tell me again why you want to eliminate money? Oh right... because your weird religion is the most evil of all.
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Old 13th July 2019, 09:33 PM   #4207
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Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post
I notice that you did not answer the questions. Please try again.

How do you support yourself?
Are you retired?
Are you on the dole?
Do you receive benefits from the government?
What do you provide in order to pay for food and shelter?
Why can't you answer those questions?

You know what, I'll even answer one of your questions first.
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Do you also want my credit card number?
Nope. Don't need it and didn't ask for it. I ask you these questions since you claim we should use your ideas. You claim we should get rid of money, but you don't even know how your internet gets paid. Why should we listen to someone who doesn't know how his bills get paid?

I ask how you get your income to prove a point. And with you avoiding answering, it shows how silly your idea is.
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You should be more worry about the actual system when people need money to get food, medicine, education, than your own comfort.
So people need money to get food, medicine and education. So when you take away money, people will not get food, medicine, and education.
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:54 AM   #4208
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ask the refugee they seek work in US as they don't have work in their countries.
Getting rid of money would not change this one bit. Actually, it would make it worse. Mostly because the work deficit which you continue to ignore. You would have more people exceeding the work hours they put into the system than can be extracted.

Also, if they are moving for work, they are not refugees. Refugees flee from violence. Migrants move for work.
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Old 15th July 2019, 06:56 AM   #4209
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Money makes criminals and criminality easy, don't listen Trump and the médias they'll drive people to hell to make richest more rich and poor more poor, and as you don't want refugees in US, they'll tell you they don't want you in heaven. Immigration is what made your country great
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Old 15th July 2019, 07:48 AM   #4210
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money makes criminals and criminality easy, don't listen Trump and the médias they'll drive people to hell to make richest more rich and poor more poor, and as you don't want refugees in US, they'll tell you they don't want you in heaven. Immigration is what made your country great
Has money made you a criminal? Are you now driven to hell by your own simple use of money?

How does eliminating money also eliminate...

Originally Posted by The Man View Post
[snip...] kidnapping, rape, custodial interference, perjury, DWI, vehicular manslaughter, just regular old manslaughter, criminal negligence, domestic violence, murder, terrorism, indecent exposure, theft, vandalism, arson or any number of criminal offense not related to [snip..]
money?

Why would some group of refugees control who gets into heaven? By what standard are said refugees guaranteed even just to be in heaven themselves? How does eliminating money automatically make one welcoming to refugees?

As usual we find your preferred course of action (elimination of money) doesn't directly address your stated concerns (in this instance criminality and a lack of acceptance of refugees).

Heck, given your pontifications of how great the world would be without money, why would there even be "refugees"?
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Old 15th July 2019, 08:16 AM   #4211
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Has money made you a criminal? Are you now driven to hell by your own simple use of money?
Yes because each time people use money he put himself in a situation of injustice as you want to be paid the maximum for your work and pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour.

Last edited by Gaetan; 15th July 2019 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 15th July 2019, 08:45 AM   #4212
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes because each time people use money he put himself in a situation of injustice as you want to be paid the maximum for your work and pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour.
As people have, at least here, told you that is explicitly and demonstrably not what they want or do, so that particular "injustice" remains entirely yours.

Why do you simply want to be a "criminal" by simply wanting or even enacting such injustice?

That particular "injustice" isn't alleviated by making both "the maximum for your work" and "the minimum for the work of your neighbour" simply zero. As that means, regardless of wanting, the condition you oppose must then always be the case. It is however alleviated by simply expecting and enacting all to be paid an equitable and sustainable (living) wage for their work.
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Old 15th July 2019, 01:14 PM   #4213
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
It is however alleviated by simply expecting and enacting all to be paid an equitable and sustainable (living) wage for their work.
Who will judge that?
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Old 15th July 2019, 02:08 PM   #4214
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Who will judge that?
Who will judge what, exactly?

A living wage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage

There are a number of factors involved, some of which are locally or situationally dependent. Thus those in the particular situation or locality would be best suited for providing data on both achievement and sustainability.

Equity in pay?

That's just people getting the same pay for the same work, as a numerological compassion judgment isn't a factor.


How exactly do you think one can ensure they "be paid the maximum for your work" while also ensuring companies only "pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour"? Particularly considering both can work in the same industry, field or even company.

In fact, job market wise, they are simply conflicting and contradictory positions. One tends to raise the wage range in a particular field while the other tends to lower it. As your "situation of injustice" doesn't seem possible to actually enact, it is thus the mere 'wanting' of such an injustice that you evidently oppose. As you are the only here or anywhere that I have even heard assert such a "want". You simply oppose only yourself.
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Old 15th July 2019, 02:54 PM   #4215
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Who will judge what, exactly?

A living wage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage

There are a number of factors involved, some of which are locally or situationally dependent. Thus those in the particular situation or locality would be best suited for providing data on both achievement and sustainability.

Equity in pay?

That's just people getting the same pay for the same work, as a numerological compassion judgment isn't a factor.


How exactly do you think one can ensure they "be paid the maximum for your work" while also ensuring companies only "pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour"? Particularly considering both can work in the same industry, field or even company.

In fact, job market wise, they are simply conflicting and contradictory positions. One tends to raise the wage range in a particular field while the other tends to lower it. As your "situation of injustice" doesn't seem possible to actually enact, it is thus the mere 'wanting' of such an injustice that you evidently oppose. As you are the only here or anywhere that I have even heard assert such a "want". You simply oppose only yourself.
The rule you apply to your neighbour apply to you, then you want to pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour then the price for your work is zero $.
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Old 15th July 2019, 03:04 PM   #4216
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The rule you apply to your neighbour apply to you,
Great, so that can be accomplished by you taking the market average wage in the field and locality and your neighbor getting the same. Your "rule you apply to your neighbour apply to you" condition is met.


Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
then you want to pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour then the price for your work is zero $.
As only you have claimed this, so for only you "the price for your work is zero $".

Do you work for "zero $"? No? Again your "situation of injustice" is entirely of your own making and applicable only to you.
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Old 15th July 2019, 04:30 PM   #4217
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money makes criminals and criminality easy, don't listen Trump and the médias they'll drive people to hell to make richest more rich and poor more poor, and as you don't want refugees in US, they'll tell you they don't want you in heaven. Immigration is what made your country great
Don't you use money?
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Old 15th July 2019, 04:31 PM   #4218
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes because each time people use money he put himself in a situation of injustice as you want to be paid the maximum for your work and pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour.
Is that how you do it?
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Old 15th July 2019, 04:33 PM   #4219
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The rule you apply to your neighbour apply to you, then you want to pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour then the price for your work is zero $.
How much do you make a week?
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Old 15th July 2019, 10:16 PM   #4220
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Gaetan, I notice you don't answer my questions. Is there something you're afraid of?

How do you support yourself?
Are you retired?
Are you on the dole?
Do you receive benefits from the government?
What do you provide in order to pay for food and shelter?
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Old 16th July 2019, 12:28 AM   #4221
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes because each time people use money he put himself in a situation of injustice as you want to be paid the maximum for your work and pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour.
Gaetan, you admit that you work and use money. Are you a hypocrite or a troll?

If you work for money as you claim, I assume that you wish to be paid the maximum for doing the minimum as everyone else does.

Do you work for you neighbor for free? If not, why not?

How can we take you serious when you keep using "evil" money yourself?
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Old 16th July 2019, 10:15 AM   #4222
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The rule you apply to your neighbour apply to you, then you want to pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour then the price for your work is zero $.
Again with the projection.

You may well be the person IRL that is looking to screw anyone that will hold still in a business relationship, but luckily you are not a majority.
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Old 16th July 2019, 02:45 PM   #4223
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The rule you apply to your neighbour apply to you, then you want to pay the minimum for the work of your neighbour then the price for your work is zero $.
No, what I want to pay him is his wage. Like that Jesus fellow you talk so much about. If my neighbor and I come to an agreement as to how much is work is worth, I will pay it. He can price himself out of the market, oddly, on both ends. If he came over and said "I will mow your lawn for free" I would likely decline as I would suspect he has other motives. Or will end up damaging something and since he is free, and not bonded, yeah, I'm out my sprinklers or something.

You seem to have this fixation on "treating others as you want to be treated" but have the worst understanding on how to apply it. You want to max your earnings, but will not max the earnings of others. You expect us to listen to your theories, but time and time again, refuse to listen to any counterpoints. You are going about all of this dishonestly. If only that Jesus fellow said something about dishonesty.

Also, by repeating a false statement, bearing a false witness as it were, I'm sure there is some sort of prohibition against that too.
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Old 16th July 2019, 03:05 PM   #4224
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Great, so that can be accomplished by you taking the market average wage
You always want to pay the minimum what ever the average market wage.
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Old 16th July 2019, 03:38 PM   #4225
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You always want to pay the minimum what ever the average market wage.
I can't want that as I don't directly pay anyone any wages since no one works for me directly.

As far as other products and purchases go I often pay top of the scale, or near thereto, because I want quality workmanship or need something right away. In fact I can't even recall ever wanting to pay "the minimum" as I would expect the quality of workmanship to be commensurate. Again your "want" and injustice remain entirely yours.

Paid cash for my new car about a year and a half ago at MSRP. I get it serviced at the dealership. Just like the previous 2 cars before. When we bought our house in 2005 we just paid the asking price. We aren't rich but I don't haggle over price, if a price is reasonable (around average market price for the quality of the product or service) we pay it.

Do you seriously think some rich person getting a $300 haircut is paying "the minimum what ever the average market wage"?

Again everyone always trying to pay the minimum drives down the wage range in the field making your "want to be paid the maximum for your work" counterproductive if you work in the same field.

Again do please let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself. Then you can worry about if your musing agree with the real world or what any of us here want (even though we keep telling you).
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:03 PM   #4226
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You always want to pay the minimum what ever the average market wage.
You just don't have the credibility for anyone to take your word for this. Remember you wanting everyone else to give up money while you still use it?
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:41 PM   #4227
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I can't want that as I don't directly pay anyone any wages since no one works for me directly.

As far as other products and purchases go I often pay top of the scale, or near thereto, because I want quality workmanship or need something right away. In fact I can't even recall ever wanting to pay "the minimum" as I would expect the quality of workmanship to be commensurate. Again your "want" and injustice remain entirely yours.

Paid cash for my new car about a year and a half ago at MSRP. I get it serviced at the dealership. Just like the previous 2 cars before. When we bought our house in 2005 we just paid the asking price. We aren't rich but I don't haggle over price, if a price is reasonable (around average market price for the quality of the product or service) we pay it.

Do you seriously think some rich person getting a $300 haircut is paying "the minimum what ever the average market wage"?

Again everyone always trying to pay the minimum drives down the wage range in the field making your "want to be paid the maximum for your work" counterproductive if you work in the same field.

Again do please let us know when you can at least agree with just yourself. Then you can worry about if your musing agree with the real world or what any of us here want (even though we keep telling you).
I see that you want to be the judge of wages
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:58 PM   #4228
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I see that you want to be the judge of wages
Ths is why you have no credibility, you just make crap up.

How are you doing abolishing all religion, beginning with your own weird one?
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Old 16th July 2019, 10:22 PM   #4229
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You always want to pay the minimum what ever the average market wage.
which is not zero.
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Old 17th July 2019, 01:26 AM   #4230
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
which is not zero.
You have a product at 100 bucks and the same product offered at zéro bucks, what the normal human being would do? He'll take the product at zero bucks. Then you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour, then you have to apply the same rule to you and not charge for your work, it is only justice.

Would be justice to tell Walmart, take your profit and give it back to workers who made their product?
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Old 17th July 2019, 03:17 AM   #4231
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have a product at 100 bucks and the same product offered at zéro bucks, what the normal human being would do? He'll take the product at zero bucks. Then you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour, then you have to apply the same rule to you and not charge for your work, it is only justice.

Would be justice to tell Walmart, take your profit and give it back to workers who made their product?
False. And you know why because it has been explained to you many times in this very thread.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:03 AM   #4232
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have a product at 100 bucks and the same product offered at zéro bucks, what the normal human being would do? He'll take the product at zero bucks. Then you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour, then you have to apply the same rule to you and not charge for your work, it is only justice.

Would be justice to tell Walmart, take your profit and give it back to workers who made their product?
Can you give a real world example of where that happens? I can think of dozens of counter-examples. Water is free but people regularly buy it in bottles. Coffee is much cheaper to make at home but MILLIONS of people buy Starbucks every day.

Obviously, your credibility is zero dollars and nobody is buying that.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:56 AM   #4233
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have a product at 100 bucks and the same product offered at zéro bucks, what the normal human being would do? He'll take the product at zero bucks. Then you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour, then you have to apply the same rule to you and not charge for your work, it is only justice.

Would be justice to tell Walmart, take your profit and give it back to workers who made their product?
You are "giving financial advice" here for free. I can go to any bank and talk to a banker and pay for advice. Guess which option I will pay for?
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:20 AM   #4234
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have a product at 100 bucks and the same product offered at zéro bucks, what the normal human being would do? He'll take the product at zero bucks. Then you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour, then you have to apply the same rule to you and not charge for your work, it is only justice.

Would be justice to tell Walmart, take your profit and give it back to workers who made their product?
If there are two products with different prices, it's because one of them is defective. The discount is there for a reason.

The normal person, would do some diligence and find out why it's free. Odds are, it doesn't work, or not fit for purpose. If it were perfectly functional, there would be a cost.

Walmart workers, on the whole, do not make their products. But I don't shop at Walmart, largely due to piss poor customer service, so I really don't care about whatever point you are trying to make about Walmart.

And that is another thing. I could probably save money by shopping at Walmart. I don't, again, I'm willing to pay more by shopping almost anywhere else for the quality of the service. So, once again, your notion that everyone is willing to pay less for the same goods, is simply untrue.
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:42 AM   #4235
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
If there are two products with different prices, it's because one of them is defective. The discount is there for a reason.

The normal person, would do some diligence and find out why it's free. Odds are, it doesn't work, or not fit for purpose. If it were perfectly functional, there would be a cost.

Walmart workers, on the whole, do not make their products. But I don't shop at Walmart, largely due to piss poor customer service, so I really don't care about whatever point you are trying to make about Walmart.

And that is another thing. I could probably save money by shopping at Walmart. I don't, again, I'm willing to pay more by shopping almost anywhere else for the quality of the service. So, once again, your notion that everyone is willing to pay less for the same goods, is simply untrue.
I said the same product, if product is different people will judge according to quality but the tendency is to take the cheaper. Then you want that people work for free for you then you have to do the same, this is justice.

Last edited by Gaetan; 17th July 2019 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:45 AM   #4236
RoboTimbo
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I said the same product, if product is different people will judge according to quality but the tendency is to take the cheaper.
So it isn't surprising that people aren't buying your zero value opinion?
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:10 AM   #4237
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You always want to pay the minimum what ever the average market wage.
You know less about what other people want than you know about economics.
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:24 AM   #4238
Leftus
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I said the same product, if product is different people will judge according to quality but the tendency is to take the cheaper. Then you want that people work for free for you then you have to do the same, this is justice.
It's not the same product because it's not offered at the same price. It's a different product. Why is it on offer at a lower price? There is always a catch.

Again, the Walmart example is on point. There are plenty of people who don't shop at Walmart despite the fact it would cost them more to shop elsewhere.
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Old 17th July 2019, 01:29 PM   #4239
Gaetan
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
It's not the same product because it's not offered at the same price. It's a different product. Why is it on offer at a lower price? There is always a catch.

Again, the Walmart example is on point. There are plenty of people who don't shop at Walmart despite the fact it would cost them more to shop elsewhere.
Hypocrites don't admit their injustice.
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Old 17th July 2019, 01:38 PM   #4240
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Hypocrites don't admit their injustice.
As you are the only proven hypocrite in this thread, I will accept your knowledge of what hypocrites do.
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